Episode 145
Jill Carnahan:
Why Self-Love is The Best Medicine Against Chronic Illness with Dr. Jill Canahan
In this episode, we delve deep into the role of self-awareness, self-compassion, and love in the healing process, particularly in the journey through chronic illness and autoimmunity. Dr. Carnahan also shares her compelling story and insights from her book "Unexpected" and her documentary "Doctor Patient."
First Aired on: Jun 24, 2024
Episode 145
Jill Carnahan:
Why Self-Love is The Best Medicine Against Chronic Illness with Dr. Jill Canahan
In this episode, we delve deep into the role of self-awareness, self-compassion, and love in the healing process, particularly in the journey through chronic illness and autoimmunity. Dr. Carnahan also shares her compelling story and insights from her book "Unexpected" and her documentary "Doctor Patient."
First Aired on: Jun 24, 2024
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Dr. Carnahan’s Personal Health Battles:
- Diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer at 25 while in medical school.
- Experienced a shocking and life-changing moment upon learning about her diagnosis.
- Decision to undergo conventional cancer treatment combined with complementary holistic therapies.
- Subsequent Crohn’s disease diagnosis and exploration into the impact of diet on gut health.
- A discussion about the medical community often overlooking the connection between diet and autoimmune diseases.
- Dr. Carnahan’s proactive approach to learning about dietary influences on Crohn’s disease and implementing changes that resulted in significant health improvements.
- Her encounter with mold toxicity following a severe flood in Boulder, Colorado.
- Mold exposure leading to a plethora of health issues, including immune system dysfunction.
- The profound realization that environmental factors like mold can be at the root of complex chronic illnesses.
- Dr. Carnahan emphasizes the necessity of self-love, self-acceptance, and unconditional love towards oneself for true healing, especially in the context of autoimmunity.
- Healing from trauma and the power of changing one’s narrative from fighting illness to facilitating healing.
- Sharing a personal meditation practice involving minions from the movie “Despicable Me” as a metaphor for her immune system gently escorting mold out of the body.
- The daily affirmation she uses to program her subconscious for health, resilience, and self-belief.
- Discussing the adverse effects of medical gaslighting and the importance of trusting personal intuition over dismissive medical advice.
- The process of re-associating with the body’s signals after periods of dissociation for survival.
- I recommend you read “Unexpected” as a blueprint for living a fulfilling life, not just for physical healing.
- Dr. Carnahan’s book shares transformative stories and encourages readers to embrace vulnerability and personal growth.
Other Resources:
Connect with Jill Carnahan
Watch this interview:
Episode Transcript
Jill Carnahan:[Page//00:00:00](Teaser Intro) Often these kinds of things that are difficult, suffering, relationships, breakups, illness, take us to a point of like, We're at rock bottom, but at rock bottom is when we can start going up.
Jill Carnahan: And at rock bottom, we can start to say, do I love all parts of myself? Cause when I first got divorced and my husband left for someone else and all of this happened, I literally was like questioning my own value. Am I worthy of love? Like at the core, right? The question is, am I worthy of love? And the only way we can truly heal, especially in the realm of auto immunity is to look at all parts of ourselves and truly and unconditionally love and accept ourselves just like we do those friends and family that are around us.
(Intro Bumper)
[Page//00:01:00]
Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we are joined by Dr. Jill Carnahan. You're a functional medicine expert. She's a double board certified physician and the founder and medical director of Flatiron Functional Medicine. As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn's disease, and toxic mold illness, she brings a unique perspective to treating patients.
Julie Michelson: Released in 2023, Dr. Jill's best selling book, Unexpected, Finding Resilience Through Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith, is a powerful prescriptive memoir that will have you laughing and crying with her on the journey, leaving you with the key resources you need to achieve optimal health and wellness.
Julie Michelson: Dr. Jill's also the executive producer, film writer, and [Page//00:02:00] featured in a new documentary that was just released about her journey of overcoming illness, which is called Dr. Patient. In today's conversation, we are talking about the healing power of loving yourself and addressing the emotional root causes of autoimmunity and illness.
Julie Michelson: We share our experience with changing your patterns to change your immune system and how it's an essential part of any successful healing protocol.
Julie Michelson: dr. Jill, welcome to the podcast.
Jill Carnahan: Thank you, Julie. I'm excited to be here.
Julie Michelson: I am so excited for this conversation. Um, and I just, this is such a gift for listeners. I was just saying before we hit record, you know, your movie just released. And I think it is one of the most impactful things that anybody.
Julie Michelson: Anybody in general, um, but especially anybody already struggling with any kind of chronic illness or [Page//00:03:00] auto immunity. They need to, they need to go see a doctor patient, um, find it, see it, and, and we'll get into the book and movie later. For the few listeners that may not know you and be familiar with you, can you share a little bit of your journey?
Julie Michelson: I am guessing when you were a little girl, you were not dreaming that this was your path that you were going to be taking. Okay.
Jill Carnahan: Yeah, so I grew up on a farm in central Illinois. I was one of five children and really wonderful loving family and lots of, you know, the classical what you'd imagine on the farm and that kind of, um, but unbeknownst to me that life that the chemicals on the farm and that was classic in the 80s, 70s and 80s.
Jill Carnahan: in the Midwest were kind of slowly poisoning me and I didn't really understand this until I got to medical school, was pursuing my dream of becoming a doctor and I noticed a lump in my breast. This was at, uh, I was actually 24 when I first found the lump and then by the time I was diagnosed, this was right around my 25th birthday, [Page//00:04:00] I went to surgery and got a call from the surgeon that said, Jill, you have aggressive breast cancer.
Jill Carnahan: breast cancer. And, you know, I always say we all remember those calls, whether it's a loved one who just passed away suddenly, or a diagnosis that's, you know, completely out of the blue or whatever it is. We all have those moments in our lives where things change forever. And I'll never forget like the place I was sitting and the color of the wall and the music that was playing at that moment when I heard, because it was such a, like, this is so surreal.
Jill Carnahan: I can't believe I have cancer at 25. And even the diagnosis was kind of like, Oh, I have a lump. It's no big deal. I'm 25. 25 year olds don't get breast cancer. All that to say, I finally got the diagnosis and it was really a turning point. First of all, the shock because I didn't know now I'm 20 years out and I'm surviving and thriving.
Jill Carnahan: But at that moment, I didn't know if I had six weeks or six months or six years. So it was really shocking and it kind of changed everything. Now, I always went into medicine knowing there was more holistic ways and that food was helpful for medicine and all kinds of like, [Page//00:05:00] principles that I grew up with, but the rubber met the road when I was diagnosed with cancer because I had to decide, what do I do?
Jill Carnahan: And because it was 25, it was so aggressive. I ended up choosing very conventional, aggressive three drug chemotherapy, surgery, radiation. But what I did on the side was I had a naturopath and I had pastoral prayer and I had friends that were there and I had all kinds of other things and I feel like, um, you know, getting through the cancer was easy.
Jill Carnahan: It was kind of the recovery after. And then within six months of me totally getting through the cancer, being considered in remission, I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which was another kind of shock. And now in hindsight, it makes perfect sense because the chemo caused more permeability of the gut.
Jill Carnahan: I already had a genetic problem. predisposition towards autoimmune on the gut lining like Crohn's. And then that, you know, caused me to develop Crohn's. And so then I delved into the idea of what does the gut have to do with disease? Can we cure disease through diet? And I, through that journey, I completely am free of both Crohn's and cancer, but it was kind of a, [Page//00:06:00] right.
Jill Carnahan: It was kind of a trial by fire for me to learn how to do this with my own health and my own physiology.
Julie Michelson: And I know even in your journey, um, you too, like so many, this may be one of my biggest pet peeves, um, we're told, no, no, don't, don't worry about what you're eating. There's no connection between Crohn's disease and food, right?
Jill Carnahan: Yeah, that was a real shocker because I'm in third year medical student and I knew that I mean, I knew food was medicine. I grew up kind of with chiropractor helping and actually one of my first books that I read was about nutrition, but I didn't really know and I'd never really come across Crohn's. And so when I was seeing the gastroenterologist for the first follow up, I'm asking him questions and he's like, Jill, you're probably going to need lifelong, um, drugs that modulate your immune system.
Jill Carnahan: You're going to need steroids. You might need surgery to resect part of your colon, it's likely. This is incurable. I mean, it was really, really dismal and hopeless. And as I left, I thought, well, I'm willing to do what I need to do, whatever it takes. And I asked him in all sincerity, you know, doc, does diet [Page//00:07:00] have anything to do with this?
Jill Carnahan: Could I change my diet? And he didn't even budge. pause. And he said, Jill, diet has nothing to do with this. But that's where I always tell patients, trust your intuition. I did not know much. I didn't know it here, but my heart was like, that can't be true. How in the world could a gut disease not having to do with diet?
Jill Carnahan: So I kind of, my little stubbornness that was underneath all of this was like, I'm going to prove him wrong. I'm going to figure this out. And I started researching and lo and behold, I did find out some dietary changes. And I was within two weeks of changing my diet. The fevers were gone. Some of the symptoms were gone.
Jill Carnahan: I wasn't cured, but I was significantly better.
Julie Michelson: Which is amazing. And I love that, you know, we're not talking about a year ago. This, this was a while ago. 20 years ago. Yeah. Not that you haven't had a continuously eventful wellness journey. Um, I lived for years, not too far from where you lived. And so I, nobody, [Page//00:08:00] nobody.
Julie Michelson: that I knew at the time would have been aware that, um, even if you weren't living in a flood zone, the area around Boulder, Colorado can flood. So, um, I know that that's a, I want to share, I know we could just go through your story and, and, um, so I, I know we, you have so much value to give to listeners, but I, I do want to share also that caveat of, because, um, What I see all the time is there is such an intersection between mold toxicity and autoimmunity.
Julie Michelson: Um, and so, you know, fast forward, you heal, you heal Crohn's, you're shifting, you're becoming, you're this pioneer in functional medicine. And what happens?
Jill Carnahan: Yes. So I got through the Crohn's and the cancer and really like with my own, um, diving into the gut. I became the gut expert and healed that and did well.
Jill Carnahan: And then in 2010, I left my position at a hospital in [Page//00:09:00] Peoria and moved to Colorado to start my own practice. And it was so exciting and so terrifying and things were going well. I was actually back to like running marathons and hiking and skiing and just pretty much back to living. Yeah, living life, doing well.
Jill Carnahan: 2013, there was a massive flood in Boulder, um, epidemic proportions that flooded just, you know, hundreds of miles of land in most of the town, and I also didn't think much of it. In fact, I worked that day as the floods were, waters were rising. Um, and then about a year later, I started having unique symptoms, shortness of breath, rashes, brain fog, fatigue, um, congestion, all kinds of symptoms.
Jill Carnahan: My immune system was crashing. And at first, my office manager even thought that I had cancer back, but it wasn't cancer. And I finally realized, oh, there might be something in my environment because I always felt worse in the office than I did at home. So I started testing and did some mold, uh, urine, mycotoxins.
Jill Carnahan: And then I also hired an inspector to look at the building and we found bulk samples of some really nasty black mold in the [Page//00:10:00] basement. And in hindsight, it's almost funny to talk about because my office was on the second floor and it was built over an unfinished crawl space that had standing water. The basement had had water damage before and then the flood just made it worse.
Jill Carnahan: And then my office, which was on the second floor above this crawl space, was built, um, My, I had a contractor come in and remodel and it was beautiful, but what he did is he just threw down some beautiful new bamboo flooring over old carpet. Which was probably 20 years old. So every step on that soft bamboo was like puffing up this garbage underneath.
Jill Carnahan: It makes me gag every time I hear about that part,
Julie Michelson: because, because I think there's such an important takeaway. I mean, here you're walking the walk, living the life, helping people heal. And so often people are like, well, no, I don't have like, you think of mold as something you see.
Jill Carnahan: Yes,
Julie Michelson: right. And you can be so educated and know all the things.
Julie Michelson: And if you don't peel back the layers, you don't find it.
Jill Carnahan: That's exactly. And even then, I mean, I had been [Page//00:11:00] doing functional medicine, I was, you know, teaching and all that, but I didn't understand how much mold was at play. the root of so many, especially autoimmune diseases, but all complex chronic illness.
Jill Carnahan: And it was almost, I always have compassion for patients just finding out because there's a bit of denial and almost a hundred percent of the time, because it affects your home or your workplace or something. And it's really like very intrusive into your safety. Like it affects our, our core safety messages, because if our home is contaminated, then of course, where we live is not safe for our bodies.
Jill Carnahan: And so there's a lot of other psychological things around it. But when I. Finally was like, believed it. I remember it being like Christmas Eve or Christmas day of 2014, where I got the results and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, my urine, my building, they matched, there was an issue. I literally did not set foot again in my office and I had books and I had Michelle, I had all kinds of stuff.
Jill Carnahan: I just literally. gave it up and started over at that point because my health was so valuable to do that. And this is the other message. It took me about [Page//00:12:00] 18 months to really start to move the needle. It's not an easy, like, let's do a month of detox. I got more sick before I got better. And I had to really, really learn.
Jill Carnahan: And also one of the messages of the book and the movie is that self compassion, I had to have lots and lots and lots of self compassion in the journey.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, which, which can be so hard. You, you mentioned even just the kind of external that psychological process of do we have to move? Do we have to give up everything?
Julie Michelson: I, you know, I thought my home is my safe place or my office is my safe place. No, it's not. And add to that. Some of that signaling and, and anxiety driving mycotoxins, like there's just so many layers of alarm bells, you know, that are, that you may not understand why or what's going on. Um, but anxiety can, I can, I'm sure you see this all the time.
Julie Michelson: You're just, I know you, intuition is. Is coupled with your vast [Page//00:13:00] medical knowledge is is one of the things that makes you such an amazing physician. Um, and sometimes listening to somebody initial conversation, like there's a there's an energy that signals. I'm like, let's talk about mold for, you know, I think I know where that's going to fall once all the tests come back and it's going to be high.
Julie Michelson: Um, and so that's a lot, even for. A professional to mention
Jill Carnahan: that because I feel like that's so true. And when I was researching for the book, one thing that was shocking and then like, of course, was there is research on limbic activation through the olfactory system. So basically we inhale a chemical or mold in particular, and it activates our limbic function.
Jill Carnahan: bite and flight kind of trauma response. And this is separate from say, we're like, Oh no, I'm going to lose my home or I'm going to have to fix my home. That's like logical analytical thing. This bypasses all of that. And literally there's this chemical effect of a trauma [Page//00:14:00] response. And when I saw that, I'm like, Oh no wonder, because I would say literally 100 percent of patients, including myself, even if they're emotionally healthy, they have a great support system.
Jill Carnahan: They've done therapy. They've done all the work. even if there's still a trauma response to mold. And I think that's what you were alluding to when you can kind of sense this underlying. And again, even if they're not an anxious person, like I wasn't, I definitely had a bit of anxiety and then a bit of like reclusiveness.
Jill Carnahan: Cause I was trying to heal and I'm normally pretty social, but I couldn't handle stimulation. There's so many factors there, but there is some real factors on the limbic activation that if you don't deal with that piece of it, it's a trauma like anything else.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, yeah. And I love that. And you talk about that in your book.
Julie Michelson: And again, kind of just right out there for all of us to, I just was blown away with just how open and honest and personal, um, you get in the book and in the movie, um, and in the documentary as [Page//00:15:00] well, but. But I really believe that's the best way to connect with people, um, and, and that in and of itself, just even, I know, remember when I was reading your book, when it first came out and it was like, Oh, and I I've, I've met you, I've followed you.
Julie Michelson: I know you a bit and, and was still like, Oh, you know, I went through that. Oh, I can connect on that. Like it, there is something so healing in sharing our stories, which is why. We do the podcast, right. And I know why, you know, in addition to giving the information and the tools and, and sharing that. And so
Jill Carnahan: I love that you say that because it really reinforces.
Jill Carnahan: I remember when I first did the first draft of the book and one of my editors said, Nope, go back to the drawing board and it was partially done, but it wasn't at that same with the documentary, we got this one version. Both of them went through multiple redos to get to that real, real core. And I had to go to the scary core of sharing things that I felt like were so [Page//00:16:00] personal, so intimate and so like a shame, maybe shameful, right?
Jill Carnahan: Like it, whether it's something I suffered with something I struggle with or something about the emotional impact of medical education, or I could go on and on. And I even talk about in the movie, this ugly cry scene that I did not want in there at first. And then I was like, Oh, Oh, that's hard to watch.
Jill Carnahan: But you know what? Oh, it was not
Julie Michelson: ugly, by the way.
Jill Carnahan: But the truth is like that, what I kept realizing over and over the lesson in all of this is like, when we go to those points that feel shameful, feel, you know, hard to share, that's where we connect. And my story, whether it's a book or the movie is every person's story.
Jill Carnahan: I am not unique. And what my goal or prayer is in that is as I share those experiences that someone would see themselves and be encouraged and know they're not alone because we're all walking this life. And so often we hide those parts of ourselves. So we think that we're the only one suffering with this emotion or this struggle.
Jill Carnahan: And when we share it, it's like, Oh, everybody's struggling with this.
Julie Michelson: You don't see that on the Instagram reels, right? It's like, that's [Page//00:17:00] not the, yeah. And, and, um, I may be using different words, but it's kind of like the mask that you've had to, you know, you really did take the mask off. And, and I thank you as somebody who, you know, has been on this planet for 55 years, I I've had my own journeys.
Julie Michelson: And, and again, there's just, um, that is, I believe. S the, the most important piece of healing and, and you can do the protocols and be doing the, the things, you know, the right things. And without the emotional healing, sometimes you don't get the results you're looking for. Often you don't get the results you're looking for.
Julie Michelson: True. It
Jill Carnahan: isn't. I say more and more, the longer I've been doing this, I'm sure like you as well, is, I know the protocols and the supplements and all that stuff. It's wonderful. It's core foundational, but if you don't do the, yeah. The trauma, if you don't do the work on the self love and acceptance, and if you don't do the work on relationships, and those are really core just as well as the supplements and protocol.
Julie Michelson: They are. And I [Page//00:18:00] promised we weren't going to be here for five hours, even though I have like five hours of questions I want to ask you. Um, and so I would, that's the perfect segue into let's dig in a little bit about the healing power of love, because I know when when I first asked you to be on the podcast, of course, I was thinking, you know, let's talk about the mold and autoimmune connection.
Julie Michelson: Um, but I, this is even more important.
Jill Carnahan: Yeah. So what I realized, again, this is all comes from starting with me and my own journey and having to heal from all these things. And, I felt like I knew, you know, cure from get over breast cancer and Crohn's disease and all of that. But after my divorce, which I had been married to the same man for 20 years, never in a million years thought I would go through divorce.
Jill Carnahan: And I did. And we both now we're friends. He actually helped produce the movie. So it's a beautiful relationship. Yeah. Um, but in that sense, uh, we had to go, we had to separate and go to those pieces that were broken parts of ourselves and really love [Page//00:19:00] ourselves because, um, and again, often these kinds of things that are difficult, suffering, relationships, breakups, illness, take us to a point of like, We're at rock bottom, but at rock bottom is when we can start going up.
Jill Carnahan: And at rock bottom, we can start to say, do I love all parts of myself? Cause when I first got divorced and my husband left for someone else and all of this happened, I literally was like questioning my own value. Am I worthy of love? Like at the core, right? The question is, am I worthy of love? And that's so relevant to autoimmunity because if you look at even Gabor Maté's work, there's this piece of autoimmune that's self hatred or self denial or self repression.
Jill Carnahan: So even if there's parts of yourselves you love, there's probably a part of yourself you hate or disown or like even a part of your body where like, oh my belly, I hate this part of myself or whatever thing it is for you. I know I have my own things. And the only way we can truly heal, especially in the realm of auto immunity is to look at all parts of ourselves and truly and unconditionally love and accept ourselves just like we do those friends and family that are around us.
Jill Carnahan: And we can show that same [Page//00:20:00] kindness. And I had to literally go back to my five year old self and say, sweetheart, you are worthy of love and you're so brave and you're so strong and I love you and I'm here for you. And we can almost like re parent those parts of ourselves that felt like alone, or felt like isolated. Or felt like unworthy
Jill Carnahan: And I grew up in a wonderful family and I had trauma, right? Like, and so I,
Julie Michelson: we all do, I mean, there's no one, yeah,
Jill Carnahan: those pieces of ourselves that either we felt misunderstood or unloved. And even with the movie, there was this underlying theme, BLT that we use to drive every scene and everything in the movie.
Jill Carnahan: And it was believe, believe in yourself, believe that you are able to heal. The L was love, love yourself and love others. And an unconditional love to ourselves is how we start the healing process. And the T was trust, trusting your intuition. So often patients know something's wrong or know that maybe there's something else that they could be doing, just like me with the diet.
Jill Carnahan: And they don't trust, well, they trust their intuition until they go to the doctor and the doctor says, There's nothing wrong. It's all in your head. Your [Page//00:21:00] labs look fine. And so they start to start to doubt. It's almost like medical gaslighting. They start to doubt their own truth. Like, well, maybe he's right.
Jill Carnahan: Maybe, or maybe she's right. Maybe there's nothing wrong with me. And they start to doubt. And when we disconnect and have some other authority other than ourself telling us what's true, and we start to believe that more than ourselves, that's when we lose our intuition. And at the heart of healing is reconnecting to our human body and saying, sweetheart, what are you telling me?
Jill Carnahan: What I did in medical school was I dissociated from my body so I could survive. I was a highly sensitive young girl and medical school was brutal. It was abusive. It was a brutal, it was, I could not have survived had I not told my body to shut up and be quiet. I need to get through school and use this.
Jill Carnahan: And then I had to, in my 40s, reassociate and say, I am so sorry. For all those years, I denied you sweet body to giving me these signals and I had to start listening and a huge portion of my healing came from reconnecting to my soul, my spirit [Page//00:22:00] and my body and being so kind and compassionate with those signals instead of ignoring them.
Julie Michelson: Oh, which is, it sounds so easy, right? I'll take the supplement protocol. Thank you. That's so much. It is a continual practice. And I think one of the things that's so impactful of how you've shared your story, um, Is it's not that you're saying anything that hasn't ever been said before, right? Like it's this isn't new information.
Julie Michelson: Um, it's prioritizing it differently and sharing it in a way, you know, back to the relatable, um, sometimes we hear that and we don't know the back story. And so we get the like, well, easy for you to say. You know, easy for you to say, you're beautiful, you're smart, you're a doctor, you're this, you're that, you know, and so by sharing those parts that were really uncomfortable and difficult to share of your journey, I think that it is the most important [Page//00:23:00] part.
Julie Michelson: It really is because. As you mentioned, and that's why, you know, the word trauma, everybody has, some people have a trauma response just to the, um, you know, it doesn't have to be a big event. It's a big T, little T. And I love that you qualify, um, because I know, you know, when people hear re parenting, they think, Oh, she must've had to, no, you have a beautiful family, lots of love.
Julie Michelson: That's not it. It's, it's, stuff gets in that if we don't like see. Sit back and take stock, you know, because there is that and it is a very autoimmune, you know, push down, push down. Um, I know one day I'm going to find out why we try to kill people who want to be doctors. Like I don't understand why medical school is
Jill Carnahan: unbelievable.
Jill Carnahan: And all conducive to compassion or empathy.
Julie Michelson: No, no. And it's like, internet, it's not just this country. Like, that's just how it is. And it's very, always fascinating to [Page//00:24:00] me. Um, and so I love that, that, you know, you're, you've taken really conscious steps. It's to heal from, from that part of your journey and the other parts, uh, it's almost like
Jill Carnahan: we have to heal from medical school, right?
Jill Carnahan: Yeah,
Julie Michelson: absolutely. Well, you, do you know how many physicians I interview that, you know, they're autoimmune or their cancer or their, whatever their thing was that, you know, the conventional approach didn't fix all be all started in medical school. And it is just because of that, you know, so, you know, I'm sorry.
Julie Michelson: And thank you for. For making it through and then teaching us that there's a better way.
Jill Carnahan: Hopefully things will continue to change.
Julie Michelson: Do you have well, they will because I know 1 of your big contributions is is. You know, the, the whole point is to change the system, right? We want to help people, but we also want to change the system.
Julie Michelson: And [Page//00:25:00] I think the more you do training physicians and, and other people, you know, even health coaches, any, anybody who will listen, I think is those little baby steps toward changing the system. I hope that's what I tell myself. Yeah. So do you have some sage, you know, where does somebody start, right? These are big things, right?
Julie Michelson: Just like remediating mold is a really big thing. This is an even bigger thing to take on, um, and, and essential for everybody for true for like, really why we're supposed to be here, right on this planet. Like, how does somebody listening that's like, Hmm, I wonder, you know, um, you know, what, what am I pushing down?
Julie Michelson: Or, you know, Oh, you know, I call it the mean girl voice. You can just whatever that we all have one. And I don't, [Page//00:26:00] I've yet to meet anybody who's like, Oh, the things I tell myself are just so nice. You know, that's not so like, as do you have any kind of advice for taking stock of where a good place to start might be?
Jill Carnahan: So I think it's first kind of like you mentioned is us actually being aware, um, awareness is the start and awareness, um, like I said, even in med school, I didn't know during med school, I'll give you an example. Um, this, there's a scene we talked about the ugly cry in the movie and I'm back, all this stuff in the movie, there's no script.
Jill Carnahan: I'm just. in real life talking and I go back to medical school because we're going to film about what happened there. And I'm just, this is just a couple of years ago. So about 20 years after my medical education, I walk into one of the big lecture halls and I start talking to the film person about, wow, this is bringing back a lot of memories.
Jill Carnahan: And as I'm talking, I get so choked up because what I see in my vision as I'm talking is I see myself now today in my forties and I see back to that 20 something year old girl that was, I had just married [Page//00:27:00] and inherited three beautiful stepchildren. I was going to medical school and then I was diagnosed with cancer.
Jill Carnahan: And I, I look back at her and I'm like, How in the world did she survive raising three children, getting through medical school and getting a breast cancer diagnosis that was so traumatic. And I start crying in the film because I'm like, so like deeply touched by, Oh, sweetheart, you went through so much and you had to suppress so much to get through.
Jill Carnahan: And now that I look back, I have clarity. So I think part of it is starting by looking back at our younger self, whether it's five, Or 15 or 25 and trying to perceive what we went through as an adult now that we are more aware and look back and say, Oh, wow, I can't believe either how strong I was to get through that or how, um, dissociate was to go through that.
Jill Carnahan: And once we become aware, of those patterns that again, maybe kept us ill, then we can start to change. And that change starts with the conversations. I remember right after [Page//00:28:00] my mold related illness, I was so sick and trying to get well. And there was one day I remember understanding. I had fought cancer, I had fought Crohn's, and I won both of these battles, but it was all a fight.
Jill Carnahan: And as I related to mold related illness in that moment in that day, I thought, Oh my goodness, my immune system is so aggressively fighting the mold that it's damaging my cells and causing issues. And this is so relevant to autoimmune, because it's the same thing, attack of self. And at that moment, I thought, I have to change my story.
Jill Carnahan: I can't fight mold or I'm going to kill myself in the battle, right? Right. Right. And I literally made up a little, I remember hearing about a man who had gone through, um, stem cell transplant, uh, bone marrow transplant. And the doctor said, we need so many of these cells in your blood. So he started meditating and visualizing on his blood cells to replicate them.
Jill Carnahan: And when he got to the doctor and they took the biopsy of the bone marrow, the doc said, how in the world, you're like 10 times the normal amount we get. And he said, well, I've been meditating. And I remember hearing that story. And of course we know the power of the [Page//00:29:00] mind by that. Um, I can change my story of these fighting.
Jill Carnahan: So at that moment, I created an image in my mind, a whole movie scene. And it was the minions, these little yellow guys, and they were my immune system and despicable me. And they were happily whistling, escorting the mold out, but they were not fighting. And I started meditating. Every day. And I would say every day in every way, I'm stronger and healthier, wealthier, more resilient, younger, and more beautiful.
Jill Carnahan: I will overcome all obstacles. I will outlast all adversity. Things are turning in my favor. And then I'd start meditating on these minions, right? And this whole changing myself, talk, changing my story, it literally transformed my immune system. And I believe with all of my heart that part of that new story, that new meditation was how I healed my body from mold and from autoimmune.
Julie Michelson: No doubt. I have no doubt at all. Um, and I laugh because again, lived outside of Boulder for a really long time, um, from the East coast. So the thing, [Page//00:30:00] it's not woo woo. It's science. We know that, you know, change your thoughts, change your life. Like this is real. And I, I love that you share that because, um, It's so impactful.
Julie Michelson: It really is. And what I was hearing as you were, you're sharing your, your personal, you know, statement is I, I have everybody in the very beginning of our, our work together, create a healing statement. It can evolve and change of like, what does my body need to believe right now? Even if I don't like here yet in my head, you know?
Julie Michelson: Um, and so I love that because I believe that. Helps whatever protocol, whatever approach, all the things just work exponentially better and quicker. And, and. You know, longer.
Jill Carnahan: Julie, I love that you do that because that's what, when I started realizing the subconscious will act out anything you believe. It's not [Page//00:31:00] discriminatory.
Jill Carnahan: So if you can program that subconscious with repetition and emotion, it will perform. And I'll tell you the honest truth. When I first came up with that, there's actually verses. from a faith perspective that I go along with each of those things. So there's actually more to it, but that's what I would say.
Jill Carnahan: Which is
Julie Michelson: the more meaning it has to you. Yes. For me, it's
Jill Carnahan: like very personal. Like one of them is the sickness will not end in death, but it's for the glory of God. So for my faith background, it is like, there's a bigger purpose to this. But I was going to say when I first came up with that stronger and healthier, wealthier and more resilient, younger, more beautiful, there was my own mind going, who are you to say you're more beautiful?
Jill Carnahan: That's ridiculous. That's so vain. Who are you? Wealthy. That's. But the truth is, I know in my heart, those things are motivation to inspire the world. It's not about me. It's not about ego. So I, I grabbed onto those, but even our own mind can be the one that kind of says, no, you can't have that. And we have to actually.
Jill Carnahan: Reprogram it and, and, uh, change those thoughts because when I first came up with, I thought this is ridiculous and even right,
Julie Michelson: but you created the [Page//00:32:00] awareness, right? You caught, that's the thing that voice is in there. And like I said, it's almost never nice, you know, but we, we've, We ignore it, but it does, but our cells are still reacting to it, whether we're conscious of it.
Julie Michelson: So I love all change starts with awareness, but that in particular, um, I love how even in that example, you were like, Oh, you know,
Jill Carnahan: and,
Julie Michelson: and the, the self compassion that you talked about, I want to highlight for people. Um, cause I've had people say, well, you know, okay. So my, you know, my, my personality gave me autoimmunity or my coping, you know.
Julie Michelson: No. All of these things were survive, like you, the medical school example's. Perfect. It's a survival tactic. It served you. Yes, in a way at the time. And you know, I have some, you know, sometimes tell off the mean voice. Sometimes just say thank [Page//00:33:00] you, doesn't serve me anymore.
Jill Carnahan: But I love that you said that though, because dissociation to me, I'm gonna tell you another example.
Jill Carnahan: So that again, in med school, I survived, and then I had to undissociate, re associate to get well. But just the other day, I had an MRI for a, I can't remember, wrist or knee or something. And I don't know,
Julie Michelson: I'm busy, I'm active.
Jill Carnahan: Um, and in that MRI, as you know, if you've ever had an MRI, it's loud, it's obnoxious, it's kind of scary, because you're really close to the thing right above your head.
Jill Carnahan: And so when I get an MRI, I dissociate into a beautiful beach and I can actually, logically, almost like a lucid dream, I can use that skill of dissociation in that circumstance and it's perfect and it's appropriate and I can get through it without any, so we can actually use this in difficult circumstances to actually help.
Jill Carnahan: It's just if we overuse it or over identify with it, we have to be able to understand that it's not always helpful.
Julie Michelson: Right. And when it's the pattern, I love the, that's a new appropriate disassociation. It's a [Page//00:34:00] tool. If you're using it as a tool, if you're living in it, that's a whole different story. So I hope the MRI results were great and all your parts are working well.
Julie Michelson: For those of you that don't know, Dr. Jill is quite the adventurer. So not only physically active, but mountain climbs and skis and rides her motorcycle and just has lots of fun and, and enjoys life.
Jill Carnahan: I do, the funny story, I have to tell you really quick, so let's take 30 seconds. So in February I was, um, long, long day at work.
Jill Carnahan: I got home and I thought, I always want to do something fun. I put on my roller skates, which light up and have pom poms, they're great. And I have a condo, so I rolled down the hall, it's concrete, it's carpeted, to take out the garbage. Well, I fell and broke my wrist and you wouldn't, it was all, I mean, it's all good.
Jill Carnahan: It was actually a divine lesson in there too. But the bottom line was at the ER and everywhere else I went, what happened, right? Is what people want to know. Well, the garbage roller skating, everybody loved the story. [Page//00:35:00]
Julie Michelson: You know, and, and you might, I mean, the, the beauty is when we get hurt doing something that we love.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. It's a whole, it's a whole different thing. You know,
Jill Carnahan: looking down the moment I looked down, like, Oh, it's broken. It's like, okay, God, I need to slow down. I hear you. And there was almost a joy. It wasn't fun. Right. But it was like a joyful, like, Oh, well, at least I did it. Roller skating.
Julie Michelson: Right. Exactly.
Julie Michelson: Exactly. All of my horse injuries, at least they were horse. Like I was doing what I loved. And either, you know, and then, and then the lesson, right, wasn't paying attention, wasn't whatever, didn't listen to my intuition. That was my last, that was when I broke my shoulder. So yeah, it's, we always are getting reminders if we're, if we need them for sure.
Julie Michelson: For sure. Uh, so amazing. I want, I want listeners first to know that I keep, I keep referencing the book, but, and I gave the title of the documentary, but not the book. So if you have not already picked up Unexpected, it [Page//00:36:00] is, and I read a lot of books. I know a lot of wonderful people who write amazing books.
Julie Michelson: This, this is an absolute must read. Um, for wherever you are in your healing journey, I think it doesn't matter. And for whatever faith you come from, it doesn't matter. Um, I just, it's such an amazing and, and ironic kind of, it's a surprise. Like the book really surprised me. Shouldn't have the titles unexpected, right?
Julie Michelson: So, um, but it did, I, I just was thinking, Oh, she wrote, you know, all about how to heal from mold or Um, no, it's really, it's a, it's a guidebook, I think, to living your best life. It's really not even about physical health. It's just living your best life. So, um, yeah, that's amazing.
Jill Carnahan: That's profound. And I've had lots of interviews about that, but that's one of the most kind and beautiful things anyone's ever said.
Jill Carnahan: Like I really, I resonate with that. [Page//00:37:00] And thank you for saying that about the book.
Julie Michelson: Well, I, I, it really, obviously really touched me. And, and, um, yeah, I, so I know like I, when I tell people go read it, like go read it really, or listen to it. It's on audio book too. So either way. Um, and I, cause I love the way you haven't said it yet in this interview.
Julie Michelson: Um, I love the only word where the Midwest accent really comes out is challenge. The way you say, so I actually love the, I'm one of those, I like hard copies, but I enjoyed listening to the audio book too, because you even made the word challenge sound fun to me. I love it. How do people find the documentary?
Jill Carnahan: Yeah. So it's out at drpatientmovie. com and you can rent it, buy it, share it, whatever you want to do there. And I hope it inspires you.
Julie Michelson: It has, if you watch it, it [Page//00:38:00] will, like it has, it's a, that should come with a warning, like it definitely will inspire for sure. Um, and I couldn't even pick like a one over there and then deep dive with the book, it's, it's just an amazing combo.
Julie Michelson: Um, so here comes the part where people, you're not gonna, you probably already have one off the top of your head, but listeners are trained. This is the part where I ask you for one step people can take today to support their health. It can be. I will.
Jill Carnahan: Stop pushing. I think now more than ever before, we're all overwhelmed.
Jill Carnahan: We're all over committed. And this year I decided 2024, I do not do over commitment. I do not do overwhelm. And when you decide that, then just like our subconscious we were talking about. So I would just say so often we feel an internal like, um, uh, motivation might be, but also, um, we, we have to perform it to someone else's standard.
Jill Carnahan: And I just want to give you permission today to just rest. And enjoy [Page//00:39:00] life and to do what you love to do, but don't feel like you have to push.
Julie Michelson: Such wise advice. That's it's a bit, I, I actually was thinking of that when you were talking about your minions, right? That fighting and pushing and, and it's the allowing and the being is where the healing is.
Julie Michelson: So such amazing advice. Oh, Dr. Jill, where for the people that listen, like I do to podcasts and they're on the go and they're not going to click the show notes, where's the best place for them to find you?
Jill Carnahan: Uh, if you just go to YouTube and click in my name, there's the channel, but really Spotify, any, um, iTunes, it's all in all channels.
Jill Carnahan: Um, the podcast is. Thank you.
Julie Michelson: Um, and resiliency radio is, is Dr. Jill's amazing podcast as well. I would highly recommend you check that out too. Thank you so much for all the gold you shared with us today.
Jill Carnahan: You are welcome. What a, um, a true joy and to [Page//00:40:00] feel seen by you. Thank you for all the work that you do in the world and all the help that you give as well.
Jill Carnahan: I really appreciate it. Thank you
Julie Michelson: for everyone listening. Remember, you can get those show notes and transcripts by visiting inspiredliving. show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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Jill Carnahan
Dr. Jill Carnahan is Your Functional Medicine Expert®. She is dually board certified and is the founder and Medical Director of Flatiron Functional Medicine. As a survivor of breast cancer, Crohn’s disease, and toxic mold illness she brings a unique perspective to treating patients. She specializes in searching for the underlying causes of illness through cutting-edge lab testing and personalized medicine protocols.
Released in 2023, Dr. Jill's Best Selling book, Unexpected: Finding Resilience though Functional Medicine, Science, and Faith is a powerful prescriptive memoir that will have you laughing and crying with her on the journey, leaving you with the key resources you need
to achieve optimal health and wellness. She is also executive producer, film writer, and featured in a new documentary about her journey overcoming illness called Doctor/Patient.
As a popular inspirational speaker and prolific writer, she shares her knowledge of hope, health, and healing live on stage and throu
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