Episode 73
Table of Contents:
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In this episode:
Today I am joined by Dr. Eric Osansky, and we are talking about all things thyroid; including the rarely addressed hyperthyroid condition, Graves’ Disease.
Dr. Eric is a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, and functional medicine practitioner who helps people recover from thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions.
He is the author of Natural Treatment Solutions for Huperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease and Hashimoto’s Triggers. Our conversation covers differences and similarities between Hashimoto;’s and Graves’ including symptoms, triggers, and treatment pathways.
If you have questions about thyroid health, you are in the right place!
Dr. Eric is a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, and functional medicine practitioner who helps people recover from thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions.
He is the author of Natural Treatment Solutions for Huperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease and Hashimoto’s Triggers. Our conversation covers differences and similarities between Hashimoto;’s and Graves’ including symptoms, triggers, and treatment pathways.
If you have questions about thyroid health, you are in the right place!
Other Resources:
Other Resources:
Connect with Eric Osansky, DC
Connect with Eric Osansky, DC
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with auto-immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michaelson. And today I'm joined by Dr. Eric Osansky. And we're talking about all things thyroid, including the rarely address, hyperthyroid condition graves' disease. Dr. Eric is a chiropractor clinical nutritionist and certified functional medicine practitioner who helps people recover from thyroid and autoimmune [00:01:00] thyroid conditions.
[00:01:01] Our conversation will cover differences and similarities between Hashimoto's and graves, including symptoms triggers and treatment pathways. If you have questions about thyroid health, you're in the right place.
[00:01:14] Dr. Eric, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.
[00:01:19] Eric Osansky: Yeah, same here, Julie, appreciate the interview and look forward to hopefully sharing some great information with your listeners.
[00:01:26] Julie Michelson: I have absolutely no doubt. I always love to start out asking, you know, how is it that you got to be doing what you're doing? I'm guessing when you were a young boy, your dream wasn't to be submerged in this world. So tell us a little bit about your story.
[00:01:47] Eric Osansky: So my background's a chiropractor and I became a chiropractor because I hurt my back and, you know, just was practicing traditional chiropractic for about seven and a half years. But in [00:02:00] 2008, I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and going back a little bit before that, I, you know, how did I know I had hyperthyroidism?
[00:02:10] Well, You know, I was honestly, I was dieting detoxifying, and so I was losing a lot of weight, but I had no idea at the time that was related to the hyperthyroidism. But one day I was walking around a Sam's club and they have those automated blood pressure machines. And I took my blood pressure and my blood pressure was fine, but my heart rate was elevated and that was kind of unusual.
[00:02:33] So I. Of course, the next few days it was just measuring my heart rate at home. And, you know, every time I measured it was between 90 and let's say like one 10 beats per minute, which definitely is on the higher side. And, you know, so I started putting the pieces together and the weight loss and the elevated heart rate.
[00:02:51] And so I saw our regular doctor. Did a thyroid panel diagnosed me with hyperthyroidism. And then eventually I saw an [00:03:00] endocrinologist and endocrinologists did some additional testing and diagnosed me with graves' disease. And I, at that point I knew I was going to take a natural approach just because of my backgrounds.
[00:03:13] And so I. No change my diet and did some testing and took supplements. And we'll, I'm sure we'll talk about some of these things here and, and long story short, since 2009, I've been a remission. And at that point, when I was in remission, I just decided to make the transition from practicing chiropractic, to helping people with, you know, thyroid autoimmune thyroid conditions.
[00:03:38] And that in a nutshell is my backup.
[00:03:41] Julie Michelson: And I always, I always feel like I'm cheating because the whole purpose of this podcast is to let people know they can reverse their symptoms. They can create remission, they can heal Without a doubt, everybody that comes on has if not, you know, some kind of personal healing, healing story, if not their own, it's a loved [00:04:00] one.
[00:04:00] And so I, I'm so excited to dive into, most people have heard and I've had several episodes that address Hashimoto's right. So a lot of people, when they hear autoimmune thyroid, that's what they think of. They think of low thyroid. Often we think of, you know I don't know if this is maybe that's cause that's when I got it.
[00:04:24] I think of women in their forties, right. Or perimenopausal women, women who've had other auto-immunity. Although I. More common, younger and younger. But, but graves is much more rare and yet they're both autoimmune thyroid issues. So I want to dive into some of those differences. And then that overlap.
[00:04:48] Because people say to me all the time and I have my RA the right way program and I'll get, somebody will contact me and they'll say, well, can I work with you? I don't have RA, but I [00:05:00] have what doesn't matter, fill in the blank. And you and I were talking before I hit, we hit record as far as there are certain approaches that are just across the board going to, you know, address.
[00:05:11] Auto immune issues in general. And yet the symptoms for the tour are so different. So I think people here graves' or hyperthyroid, and there's an urgency, it's almost really a one-time. Right. Sometimes it takes people a really long time to get diagnosed with Hashi's because their symptoms just aren't that alarming for providers.
[00:05:37] And I feel like the reverse is true when, if somebody in the Western medicine world tests and find out your hyper thyroid, there's this urgent, you know, get it taken care of. And I want to start there because. Because of that, I feel, I feel like there's an urgency to [00:06:00] find the functional medicine practitioner that can help you, or that are alternative practitioner that can help you because you know, share a little bit about that typical endocrinology route.
[00:06:10] What did they want to do for you or to you when you were diagnosed?
[00:06:16] Eric Osansky: Sure we could talk about all that. And so you're right. Definitely what hyperthyroid is, then there's more urgency and it's usually diagnosed a lot faster because with Hashimoto's. Th th the process, I mean, they're both automating processes, but what Hashimoto's, some of the symptoms could be attributed to so many other things.
[00:06:36] So when someone experiencing fatigue, for example, you know, a lot of different things can cause fatigue or, you know, weight gain and, you know, just. A lot of people just attribute it to, well, you know, I've just been working too hard and, you know, just to just diet as far as weight, weight gain and so it'll, and then if they go see an endocrinologist, they might not even show up as being hypo [00:07:00] on the, on the, with the blood test.
[00:07:02] Sometimes maybe subclinical hypothyroid with a TSH is normal and thyroid hormone levels are at least within the lab range, but it takes. Most of the time years for its effect, the thyroid Glen. So with what hyperthyroid. You know, if someone is having a lot of weight loss, which isn't always the case for hyperthyroidism, it doesn't one of the more classic symptoms.
[00:07:24] And I lost 42 pounds when I dealt with hyperthyroidism. So, so that was a lot of weight. And then as I was giving my story before, when combined with the. Elevated resting heart rate and heart palpitations. I mean, some of these symptoms could be pretty extreme and scary. So most people aren't going to wait around to, to see their doctor.
[00:07:44] They usually go into events sooner than later get diagnosed. And so, so yeah, big difference between. Hashimoto's and graves' disease, hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism of course, are the symptoms. And the, and sometimes it could be overlap. People with [00:08:00] Hashimoto's can definitely get hyper symptoms. Usually it's more transient, whereas people with graves' disease, again, they could also experience some hypo symptoms, but usually the hyper symptoms are more prominent.
[00:08:12] And I mentioned a few of them and you could get decreased muscle mass and. Loose stools diarrhea. Again, it's just a lot of different symptoms that again are, like you said, kind of the complete opposite with with Hashimoto's where you're a lot of times, most of the time gaining weight and you have coldness where again, you may have more like heat intolerance with the hyperthyroidism.
[00:08:36] As far as when I went to my endocrinologist and it was only a single visit, honestly, because again, I knew I was going to take a natural approach. So I just wanted to really get that official diagnosis. And I didn't have the knowledge now that I had back then. So, you know, I did want to see, just see a specialist and, and quite frankly, I think it's a good idea for most people to at least get that initial diagnosis and see, [00:09:00] you know, an endocrinologist, but.
[00:09:02] When I saw the endocrinologist, she recommended anti-viral medication methimazole specifically, which is commonly recommended for ants for hyperthyroidism. A lot of endocrinologists do pressure, their patients to receive radioactive iodine, which is a bleeding, the thyroid as well as thyroid surgery. And honestly, she did not pressure me.
[00:09:23] She was one of the rare cases. And again, back then, I didn't know any better, but then as I've been working with patients over the years, I realized that. Very common for them to at least bring it up and many times pressure, but she, she was more laid back. She did recommend the ants at the, our medication.
[00:09:38] And again, I chose not to take that and we can talk more about that. That's like an herbal approach to manage the symptoms, but but yeah, the urgency that we were again, chatting before this, about how many endocrinologists panic and, you know, they just are scared to death of the person being hyper. And you know, of course the medication can do the job, but.[00:10:00]
[00:10:00] To be fair. Side-effects are comments. I'm sure. They're also concerned about the side effects of ants at the are medication, but everything's risks versus benefits. And I think it's a little bit extreme, you know, for the, to, especially when it's an autoimmune condition, it's not primarily a thyroid condition to have the person, you know, either ablate their thyroid gland or remove the thyroid.
[00:10:20] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And I have, I'm sure you encounter as well, you know? That route and that doesn't solve their problems when it's auto-immune unfortunately it may solve the thyroid level at that point. But I, and I had shared with you in a week, we've had experienced in our family with, and that's why we do the podcast, right?
[00:10:44] Because when you have a trusted physician who is acting, you know, in, in good faith, like there is urgency. I know at least in our experience it was, you know, concerned about. Right. You [00:11:00] mentioned elevated heart rate. People often, it is interesting other than the weight loss you didn't have yet other physical symptom, you didn't feel palpitations.
[00:11:10] You didn't have that racing. But that was the, oh my gosh, heart, heart, heart. We need to do this right away. And, and for me, I find that. And again, it's the both sides. It's unfortunate. It could take somebody years to get diagnosed with Hashimoto's and it's unfortunate that the people feel it, then a sense of panic.
[00:11:30] And like, you need to take action immediately to fix this. Not everybody has that first instinct of like, oh, I think all. Check other approaches. So you mentioned that you, you used, and we don't have to get into, you can get a specific or not. I know this is not medical advice, everybody we're sharing stories.
[00:11:49] But again, we went from, you know, you need this antithyroid medication and again, many people here, you know, or [00:12:00] ablation or removal and you were able to. So you mentioned herbs. I know there was diet change. Let's talk a little bit about, okay. You know what, that it doesn't actually have to be your story.
[00:12:13] Let's just talk about, because I'm sure you're you have so much more experience now. Let's talk about your approach. Somebody comes to you and they have graves. What does that look like? Where do you even start?
[00:12:28] Eric Osansky: Sure. Well, like many other practitioners, of course I have them fill out a comprehensive health history and all that good stuff. But one of the first things I do want to make sure that they're doing is keeping safe. So if they. If they're taking out anti-viral are medication. And if they're tolerating, well, really no side effects are minimal side effects.
[00:12:49] And if they're okay with taking it, you know, I'm, I'm definitely not going to try to talk them out of it and which I can anyway. I'm not you know, I'm not the prescribing doctor, so I would never do that anyway, but, [00:13:00] but honestly, a lot of people need to take the ants out their medication. So in my, my situation, when I dealt with hyperthyroidism and I was giving them a feminism.
[00:13:12] I dismissed it initially, but my thought process was let's go ahead and try to manage the symptoms naturally. And if it didn't work, then I would be open to take an anti-viral medication. But there's, as you mentioned, we're not giving specific recommendations, but there's a, there's an herb called bugleweed.
[00:13:31] And there's another one called mother ward and bugleweed has anti-authority properties, so it helps to lower the thyroid hormone levels. And so I figured I'd give it a try. And when I dealt with hyperthyroid and when I, when I had graves, I didn't know anybody else who successfully used these methods.
[00:13:47] So I was skeptical, but, you know, I just figured I'd give it a try. And the bugle weed worked really well with me. It doesn't work with everybody, you know, I'd say probably like 70% of do fine, but that's why if someone's [00:14:00] taking SSRI medication, you want. Make the transition. Cause you don't know if the bugle weed will be effective and again, different story.
[00:14:07] If you're having a lot of side effects or if it's elevated living liver enzymes. So that's number one, as far as making sure you know, they're safe. And and again, it could be either medication through their prescribing doctor or an herbal approach. And then after that, just trying to find the triggers and underlying imbalances.
[00:14:31] I mean, some of this could be accomplished at a health history, but I do like to do different types of testing. Most of my patients will go through adrenal testing and probably part, a big part of that is because when I had grazed, my adrenals were in horrible condition and I, I, I was in denial, so I didn't think they would be as bad as they were.
[00:14:49] I figured that I, I thought I did a good job of managing the stress, but but yeah, it was definitely wrong. So, so yeah.
[00:14:57] Julie Michelson: I always say you don't have to feel [00:15:00] stressed out to have texts adrenals.
[00:15:03] Eric Osansky: Exactly. Yeah. So, but yeah, adrenal testing, you know, sometimes I'll do conference of stool panels. I mean, it depends on the person, you know, adrenals pretty much what everybody blood testing, you know, what, with certain blood tests with everyone and then really on a case by case basis, I, I try to be more conservative with the.
[00:15:22] With the testing, but it does depend on the person if someone's having a lot of gut issues and, and, and you can't always go by symptoms. So sometimes it's challenging, but, but you know, you got to start somewhere. And so I used a case history in the initial consultation as the starting point that determined what tests the person will need or think they need.
[00:15:40] And then when we get the results, you know, give recommendations based on that. I mean, initially. Also do things to help with inflammation. Like a lot of other practitioners do when it comes to auto muni things such as making sure they have sufficient omega threes and, you know agents help with the gut like probiotics.
[00:15:58] And like I said, it depends on the [00:16:00] person. I try not to overload them with supplements, especially in the beginning, because I want to try to find answers.
[00:16:06] Julie Michelson: Right.
[00:16:07] Eric Osansky: But yeah, essentially that's the beginning approach, just trying to make sure they're safe and then try to have them do some testing to find some of the triggers underlying imbalances.
[00:16:17] And of course the diet. So the diet, diet, and lifestyle is huge. So I do recommend dietary changes and you know, in this day and age, a lot of people go on the internet and they, they follow, you know, Have an idea of what's a follow, you know, just w whether it's autoimmune paleo diet or paleo diet, or, you know, some will follow a ketogenic diet.
[00:16:37] But to me, diets are a starting point. There's no one diet that fits everybody, but yeah. Yeah. But it is important of course, to eat a clean, healthy anti-inflammatory.
[00:16:51] Julie Michelson: I love that. So you mentioned, you know, I feel like it's the word I say most, which is inflammation, right. You're looking for those drivers. And here's the [00:17:00] difference between you talked about symptom management. And also root cause and looking for triggers. And there's, that's the piece, you know, the endocrinologists are looking for symptom management and leaving it at that.
[00:17:16] What. do some people get graves? Like what you hear auto-immune thyroid. And we can all kind of wrap our head around. Okay, fine. You know, it's targeting thyroid, but what would Dr. Graves? And I don't know that I personally really want to know your answer to this one. I don't know that there isn't an answer.
[00:17:38] It's probably like diet, not one thing, but how does that even happen?
[00:17:44] Eric Osansky: So you probably heard of the triad of autoimmunity to three legged stool of what on unity. And that really applies to different autoimmune conditions. So there does seem to be a genetic predisposition, but as you know, just because you have the genes doesn't mean that you're going to develop a specific [00:18:00] health condition.
[00:18:01] So the other two components are. Equally importance and that's so number two would be exposure to one or more environmental triggers. And then the third component is an increase in its hustle, permeability, which is a medical term for leaky gut. And so. W w so in my case, what graves' disease, you know, when I D I did start in testing, I'm sure stress was one of the main triggers, you know, th there's I look at four categories of triggers.
[00:18:30] So, so food, stress, infections, and chemicals, and, you know, you can it's, you could have multiple. Trigger. So know stress. I think it's safe to say in most people is at least a factor. You know, it doesn't mean it's the only trigger many times. That's not the case. So that's where again, diet comes into play and eliminating common food triggers.
[00:18:52] And some people might have a gut infection such as H pylori or, you know, there's some evidence. Viruses, like [00:19:00] Epstein-Barr at least my play a role and, you know, still were learning a lot, but you know, the, so the triggers and then the gut and most of the immune system cells are in the gut. You need a healthy gut to have a healthy immune system.
[00:19:12] So it does make sense that. God has compromised that that at least could be a factor when it comes to auto-immunity. So that, those seem when it comes to different autoimmune conditions, at least as far as we know now, and there's, you know, there, there are other factors I don't want to get. Too into detail, but like regulatory T-cells, which keep auto-immunity in check.
[00:19:33] But then again, what affects the regulatory T cells and cause them to get lower. So, but, so I really try to make it simple and stick with those three factors because if you address, but again, you're not gonna address the genetics, but if you find remove the triggers, heal the gut, you know, most of the time that will help greatly in getting the autoimmune condition.
[00:19:54] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And I love that you hit on. I remember when I first started this work. [00:20:00] Actually when I first was knee deep, maybe elbow deep in my journey before I even started this work. And I learned about root causes and triggers. And, you know, I, I was looking for my root cause singular, and you'd hear that right.
[00:20:15] Functional medicine is root cause medicine. And, and I, I don't know that I've ever encountered anybody where it's just one thing, right. It, it, where, because I look at. When you say, you know, diet driving inflammation, you know, well, that's a stressor or, you know, all of these things kind of cross categories and nobody lives in a bubble.
[00:20:37] And so, like you said, it's stress may not be the main driver, but it plays a, a role. And so I just like anybody that finds me and comes to work with me That I've yet to encounter somebody who didn't have gut permeability, because by the time they've got 1, 2, 3, 4 autoimmune diagnoses and they [00:21:00] find somebody like me, or like you often, like you it's, it's just a known factor in yeah, we, we test, I, I don't even use.
[00:21:10] Permeability testing, because I always do to create that personalized diet. We're always as we're healing the gut looking at food sensitivities, and when somebody has a two page list of immunoglobulin responses, I know you have leaky gut and we could spend more money. We can check, you know, some people want to, they want the data.
[00:21:31] But it, it, it just is at this point, a known factor, I think.
[00:21:37] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I agree. I used to do a lot of leaky gut testing using a, you know, I use Cyrex labs or intestinal permeability, antigenic tests. And. Just about RD buddy tested positive. And when, when they were negative, I would question, you know, is it, is it a true, is it a true negative or a false negative? And so either way, I just, I started just assuming [00:22:00] everybody.
[00:22:00] Exactly. And the downside of those tests is that. Tell you, what is causing the leaky gut? So you spend a few hundred dollars, you know, you have a leaky gut, but it's really not helpful. I don't think in the healing process, because regardless, like you said, you, you want to focus on the gut. Cause see, I don't think also I've encountered anyone with a perfectly healthy gut.
[00:22:21] Now I've come across people who have no gut symptoms you know, where they're like, oh, I feel fine. My bowel movements are fine, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have a 100 plus. Perfectly healthy gut. I don't think really anybody in this day and age has it with all the exposures that glyphosate and everything that's out there.
[00:22:38] Julie Michelson: I was going to say, you know, I don't think you can step foot on the planet, but it's actually even, you know, I know my, my daughter was born with multiple toxicities because she lived in my cesspool of a womb for nine months. So yeah, you don't even actually have to already be standing on the earth. Our exposure level is [00:23:00] just, is just greater than we can typically manage at this point, unless we're addressing it then unless we're doing these things.
[00:23:09] So you're look, you look for the triggers and you address those. As what you're saying, but number one is make sure the symptoms are managed while you're kind of doing this, this other. So you're using testing. You're using history. Sounds like it's a, it's a process. You mentioned no one diet and you mentioned a few different.
[00:23:35] What I would consider good approaches diet wise. Do you have a preference or how do you guys say somebody comes in and they're on the standard American diet when they get to you in aware, then where do you start? What is your process with, with diet for that thyroid?
[00:23:53] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I mean a good, good question. So, I mean, I do like autoimmune, paleo as a starting point. [00:24:00] Like I said, it's not there, there is no perfect diet for everyone and you have to make modifications for some people. If someone's following just a standard American diet, it might be a real difficult transition to go into AIP.
[00:24:12] So they might. The more, they might make the switch. Initially it's a regular paleo like standard paleo, even Mediterranean. If someone's eating, you know, McDonald's, you know, or other types of fast food on a regular basis and a lot of refined foods and sugars, then again, the really number one goal is to try to eliminate the refined food sugars on healthy oils.
[00:24:35] Just try to eat in as much as you can stick with the whole food. Try to eat organic. I mean, even without following AIP, strictly or paleo, that's a big task for a lot of people. And, you know, for some people just gluten free is a huge challenge. So, so that's where it could depend on the person. We don't want to scare anybody away or to stress them out even further, if they're not ready for, you know, autoimmune, paleo diet, or [00:25:00] even standard paleo diet.
[00:25:01] But those, those would be like kind of starting points. Cause really I do like to do some type of elimination diet. And, you know, and there's no perfect, I guess, perfect method. There's, you know, elimination, diets, food, sensitivity testing. They both have values, but, and everybody has different approaches. So here we've, you know, typically I do a food, a food sensitivity tests.
[00:25:22] I'm sorry. I do a elimination diet and the AIP kind of, to me serves like an elimination diet,
[00:25:29] Julie Michelson: And it will, it is if it's done properly. I, I, it makes me sad. People, you know, show up at a consult and they'll be like, well, I've been on AIP for two years and I'm like, well, tell me about it. And they're still in the elimination phase two years later, which is not how it's I had happened to be an AIP coach.
[00:25:47] So I'm like, no, you're doing it wrong. You know, people think like, oh, AFP is so restrictive. And I'm like, well, did you do your re-introductions? You know, it just depends. But like,
[00:25:57] Eric Osansky: diet. That's a good point. It's yeah.
[00:25:59] Julie Michelson: it's [00:26:00] not, AIP is a lifestyle and, and it is interesting cause AIP also encompasses those other things that you and I are working with.
[00:26:08] Other lifestyle areas. It's really not just food, but people just think of it as this. They think of the elimination phase and they think that's what AIP equals. And it doesn't, but like you said, for some people. That's way too restrictive to jump into. And for other people with a long list of food sensitivities, it's, you're not removing the right foods.
[00:26:31] And so I personally, I use a blend, but, but like you it's, it's all individual and I want to highlight, you said my favorite thing and that's, that's what I always do. We love to ask, you know, well, what's the right diet. Doesn't it, there's a variety of approaches, but the key I believe, and I heard you say it is whole food, real food you know, certain foods for sure.
[00:26:57] All organic, if you can. And if you can't, you know, [00:27:00] definitely at least dirty dozen organic you know, controlling what we can, but. It is amazing what the body can do with real food versus what, you know, what it can't do with all the processed junk.
[00:27:15] Eric Osansky: Yeah, that is true. And one thing that's important to mention this gets back to this. There are people that work with me. And I'm sure people that work with you that once again, even before getting started, they've been on AIP. And like you said, maybe they're not doing it. Right. And and sometimes it's not strict AIP.
[00:27:34] They might really be falling more paleo or worse than that, whether they're following AIP, but you know, eating other things that not are even paleo-friendly. but, but.
[00:27:46] Julie Michelson: I saw that this morning somebody had recommended like a meal of meal planning place. I'm always looking for resources for, for clients. And I went on the website and it was like, oh good. You know, they have a gluten-free menu option. And they had a [00:28:00] paleo menu option. And in the list of what's included in the paleo, it was dairy optional.
[00:28:05] And I'm like, okay, that's not paying, don't call it that paleo. This is why people get confused.
[00:28:11] Eric Osansky: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's weird. But, but yeah, but what I was going to say is that if someone is following a strict AIP diet and not getting results, it doesn't mean that it wasn't beneficial if you were doing everything right. And it wasn't cause, you know, causing an improvement in symptoms and or your blood cells, for example, you know, very well.
[00:28:33] There's probably other factors. And that's where, what I was talking about. Not just food as being a trigger, you know, but it's definitely an regardless of how you feel when following the diet, it's still an important piece of the puzzle. And we definitely both would agree that if you continue eating inflammatory foods or if you follow AI, And you just dismiss it.
[00:28:55] Oh, I followed it for three months or even six months and not nothing changed. I'm going to just go [00:29:00] back to the old diet, you know, that's definitely not, not a good approach because again, you're, you're almost definitely won't heal, taken out approach.
[00:29:07] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And, and, and that's the thing it's never a one prong approach and yes, diet is important. Three or four years ago, that was a ways of the, for me, like kind of the low hanging fruit, the easy starting point with people. Typically these days, We, I mean, I collect information about diet. We don't even start making diet changes until we start with stress management because, you know, I have seen people like you have coming, come in and their diet is dialed in, even, you know, for them individually.
[00:29:42] But their symptoms haven't changed at all. And it's like, oh, well, you know, what's your stress management routine. Oh, I don't have one or, you know and so, and again, it doesn't mean if you just focus on stress, you're going to heal either. It's we have to hit all of these areas. [00:30:00] And it is a, it's a process.
[00:30:02] Eric Osansky: Yeah, exactly. I mean sleep of course. I mean, all these things are important and again, there are. Each a piece of the puzzle, as you said, you know, my, someone might already be eating a great diet AIP and managing stress and sleeping well, but maybe they have a gut infection or maybe their toxic load is too high.
[00:30:22] So that's why it's, it's detective work. That's, that's really the process of, you know, functional medicine doctor is just a. There are some people that they have an autoimmune condition and all they'll do is eliminate gluten. They won't even fi follow strict AIP. They eliminate gluten and then they're like, wow, I feel so much better.
[00:30:40] And maybe their blood test even greatly improve. And so again, you can't compare yourself to other. And it's difficult, especially in the age of social media where you could easily find others who are getting great results, maybe with, you know, diet and again, not following strict AIP. And then you're like, well, you know, if they, if [00:31:00] they could do it, I could do it.
[00:31:01] But then when you try it, you don't get the same results. And that call all comes down to the biochemical individuality as well as, you know, being exposed to different triggers.
[00:31:10] Julie Michelson: I love that. And I, I always say like, like you're saying, we know there's certain things that everybody should do. And I, I joke, I do pick on, I say diet should be individual. It should be whole food. And if you have an autoimmune condition, you should not eat gluten like that for me, is the. that's my own personal opinion because of the research based on science, but that, you know, that gluten does not serve anybody with auto-immunity.
[00:31:40] If you want to, if you take the time to heal your gut. And really do that work to me. It doesn't make sense to put gluten back in and there's no nutritional value that it's not like these are nutrients. We can only get from eating bread or pasta, but that's not required, but, but then like, [00:32:00] you know, beyond that, When people ask me all the time, well, you know, I'll eat what you eat.
[00:32:05] Tell me. And I'm like, I hope you don't have as restricted of a diet as I seem to need to have to, to feel amazing. So that's the other point? As far as not, we've mentioned, you know, the AIP elimination phases restrictive, and it's supposed to be a phase or whatever elimination plan you're doing.
[00:32:27] What are your feelings about that? You know, are there things you tell people, do you tell people, you know, avoid gluten completely, or do you tell them, you know, what's your approach on what people should or shouldn't be eating longterm?
[00:32:43] Eric Osansky: I mean, I agree with you on a, in a perfect world, you know, there's really no needs that eat gluten. I mean really dairy too, but
[00:32:51] Julie Michelson: Thank you. I was like, that's always my and sorry, dad. I, we were in my family back there, the puppies, [00:33:00] it, my family was in the dairy business. And so I always feel like I should apologize when I say dairy is inflammatory.
[00:33:09] Eric Osansky: Yeah. Now I will say, I will admit that, you know, since I've been in remission since 2009 now, have I been completely dairy free? Haven't had zero gluten exposures, you know, I'd be lying if I said. You know, and it's, some people are definitely better than me and, you know, cause like you said, there was some people that flare up when they you know, get exposed to even a small amount of gluten, but, but you're playing with fire and same thing.
[00:33:38] Oh. You know, and all the gluten exposures, you know, that I've had over the last 12 plus years and you know, same thing with dairy and also, I mean, there's, you know, there's health benefits. There are so many other health benefits that other foods too. So so I guess to answer your question. It really is [00:34:00] up, obviously it's up to the person, but, and there, there are some people just like with you, I'm sure.
[00:34:05] Even without giving your opinion, they say, you know what, I'm just going to go gluten free. Sometimes I'll say, I want to go, you know, I'm going to go dairy free permanently. But yeah, I think in a perfect world, we all probably should go gluten free and maybe. Dairy-free, but I will say, you know, I have no problem eating a gluten-free pizza, but, you know, and I know there's the diet cheese and all that, but usually I do have, if I have a, if I have a gluten-free pizza, it is, I am usually having a dairy.
[00:34:31] So.
[00:34:32] Julie Michelson: I well, and I would support that. I think sometimes the alternatives, the alternatives are not ideal either. And this is why I love the reintroduction phase. I always joke. I said, I can tell you all the reasons I think you should never eat gluten again. You need to feel how you feel when you eat gluten.
[00:34:52] And I do have clients that it always makes me sad. They do a gluten-free intro and they don't notice anything. They [00:35:00] feel totally fine. And so those are the people that are going to occasionally have gluten and that's fine. They're gonna, they're going to stay great. And then I have people that, you know, I always say.
[00:35:11] What your body tells you is what's going to determine what's a never food. What's a, sometimes food. What's a once a year food. I don't know. Some people, you know, depending on symptoms, like I'm like, okay, then don't eat that before you get, give a big speech or, you know, it just depends on what your symptoms are going to be.
[00:35:31] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I agree in it. And I mentioned a pizza, obviously when I was getting in remission. Avoiding pizza for quite a long time. So it's and it's, you know, so just want to make that clear. That's not one of the first foods that you you'll be re-introducing if you're doing AIT. So.
[00:35:46] Julie Michelson: Yes, we usually, re-introduce both the area. I'm the gluten toward the end. And I too, I was dairy free for years and years and the more I learned and the more I practiced, the more I realized, oh, [00:36:00] there are many people who. You know, goat, dairy doesn't seem to be an issue. I wonder if I'm one of those people.
[00:36:06] And I am one of those people. And so I will have that once in a while because it doesn't bother me. I'm still probably not the most ideal thing to have all the time for me. But I can, I can get away with it. And I always say, it's not about perfection, right? It's about healing and creating results.
[00:36:25] So, you know, for you it's, you can have the pizza. I had a pizza yesterday, but I made it myself with a grain-free crest and pesto and no cheese, but
[00:36:38] Eric Osansky: And he's shit. I mean, if you're eating ideally. If you're having a pizza, you really do want to try to make it on your own because if you go outside, even if it's gluten free, they're using probably unhealthy oils, like soybean oil and who knows what else in the pizza. So and then, you know, the dairy, if you go out, it's, I'm sure it's having the hormones.
[00:36:57] I mean, there are some places that are more [00:37:00] natural, organic. There there's a place in the Charlotte area that does have healthier pizzas, but still it's best to. To make it on your own. But one question I have for you, since we're talking about dairy as an AIP coach, what are your thoughts about geek?
[00:37:14] Because I do have a lot of patients asking you about gee and according to some reintroduction diets, G is allowed in the earlier stages of Rancho.
[00:37:23] Julie Michelson: I, again, this is just speaking as a functional medicine coach and I allow my clients use gait and less. We know if you have a dairy allergy, don't, don't go there. Don't go near there. But I let my clients use the during elimination. For dairy. And actually I haven't taken a step further and this may come from my bullet proof coach time, but w I, we will do butter as a separate re-introduction because I have a lot of clients who are, there's so little protein in the butter that they, they do better.
[00:37:55] I'm personally, I do find with butter. So a lot of people [00:38:00] are fine with butter and then people like my poor dog. She can feel it, it doesn't work for her. But even she who's super sensitive to.
[00:38:10] Eric Osansky: Okay.
[00:38:11] Julie Michelson: so, yeah, we have good success with it. I, I used to be this'll be my first time cursing on the podcast. I used to be a hard-ass and I used to be all about perfection.
[00:38:21] And now I'm about, you know, realistic what's your lifestyle, make it sustainable and, you know, control and reduce where we can so that we can handle what we're not gonna be.
[00:38:36] Eric Osansky: Yeah, it makes sense.
[00:38:37] Julie Michelson: Yeah, I like it. So, and I know you, you ha have a gift for listeners. Tell us a little bit about your thyroid checklists.
[00:38:50] Eric Osansky: Yeah. So my thyroid checklist, it's a checklist to help people. Be more aware of the different types of triggers [00:39:00] and you know, the ways on how to find the triggers because that's a, as we were discussing, that's a big part of getting into remission. You know, as we mentioned, the genetics, we can't control, but we can't do things to find or move the triggers.
[00:39:14] And I mentioned the four categories, four main categories of triggers, but then there are different triggers within each category. So with the thyroid checklist, Just to help with awareness and you know, where, how people could find those tricks.
[00:39:34] Julie Michelson: That's amazing and so helpful because it allows, you said, you know, functional medicine, practitioners or detectives, it allows people to start their detective work. Right. They can, you can share what you find through using the checklist with your practitioner. And, you know, because as you mentioned earlier, it is such a process.
[00:39:55] I always say, you know, there's so many rocks to look under. If you ha, this is where you get [00:40:00] your clues of where do you start or what, where are you going to move the needle the most by, by addressing? So the link to the checklist will be in the show notes. So thank you for sharing that with, with listeners, it's a huge asset for people. What is one step people can do today right now? What can people start? What can they do to start to improve their health?
[00:40:29] Eric Osansky: It's hard to just say one step, but well, because diets so important. So, so, so I'm going to go the stress management route though, just because in my situation, stress was huge not to say diets in a play a role, but also in the literature. There are studies showing, you know, I know correlate correlation doesn't always mean causation, but there, there is research showing that that stress could be a potential factor, potential trigger when it comes to graves' disease.
[00:40:59] And of [00:41:00] course, we can say that with all autoimmune conditions, but there's not research with every single autoimmune condition. And then just, you know, being that I've worked with people with graves' hyperthyroidism graves' disease. For so long now it's definitely a big factor and you kind of alluded to it earlier.
[00:41:17] A lot of people overlook the stress management and they focus on the diet well before not everybody, but it's not uncommon for people to clean up their diet on their own, but they're not doing enough from a stress, stress management perspective. And I think people should be. Things every day from a stress management perspective.
[00:41:39] So you also get some people that are doing things, but they might be going to a yoga studio maybe like twice a week or maybe zooming it out their home. And, you know, that's their definition of stress management or they're exercising, which, you know, I feel better when I exercise and I do think it helps it stress, but you know, it's more of a [00:42:00] sympathetic activity, not a power sympathy, parasympathetic activity.
[00:42:05] So yeah, long, long response to your question, but if I had to choose one thing and again, it's difficult, diet is definitely up there, but I would say the stress management,
[00:42:16] Julie Michelson: well, and you would say daily practice.
[00:42:20] Eric Osansky: correct? Exactly.
[00:42:22] Julie Michelson: and that's key. And I always say to everybody, you know, find your path, whatever you will do daily is the best daily practice. I don't think, you know, breath work is more important than yoga or more important than meditation, or, you know, I joke a lot of my clients who say the word meditation, and you can literally see their blood pressure rise.
[00:42:44] So I say, you know, whatever, you'll do daily.
[00:42:47] Eric Osansky: Agreed.
[00:42:49] Julie Michelson: is the way. So before we wrap up links for everywhere to find, you will be in the show notes as well. But where's the best place for, for listeners if they're listening and they don't want to [00:43:00] look in the show notes, what's the best place to find you?
[00:43:03] Eric Osansky: I would say, well, I'll give two. So one is my website, not my main website is natural endocrine solutions.com. And that has hundreds of different articles. Blog posts. A lot of them focus on hyperthyroidism. There are some also for hypothyroidism Hashimoto's, but then also my podcast, which if you visit savemythyroid.com and click on podcast or visit apple or Spotify and just type in save my thyroid and that has a greater emphasis on those with hyperthyroidism. So like pretty much all the solo episodes I do, focus on hyperthyroidism. And then when doing interviews, you know, that that could benefit people with both graves' and Hashimoto's, but yeah, those would be the two main resources.
[00:43:52] Julie Michelson: Love that. And I love the name of your podcast. It's the best
[00:43:56] Eric Osansky: Thank you.
[00:43:57] Julie Michelson: Dr. Eric, thank you so much. You've shared [00:44:00] amazing gold with us today
[00:44:03] Eric Osansky: Thank you, Julie. It was, it was a pleasure.
[00:44:07] Julie Michelson: for everyone listening, remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspiredliving.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I will see you next week.
[00:01:01] Our conversation will cover differences and similarities between Hashimoto's and graves, including symptoms triggers and treatment pathways. If you have questions about thyroid health, you're in the right place.
[00:01:14] Dr. Eric, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.
[00:01:19] Eric Osansky: Yeah, same here, Julie, appreciate the interview and look forward to hopefully sharing some great information with your listeners.
[00:01:26] Julie Michelson: I have absolutely no doubt. I always love to start out asking, you know, how is it that you got to be doing what you're doing? I'm guessing when you were a young boy, your dream wasn't to be submerged in this world. So tell us a little bit about your story.
[00:01:47] Eric Osansky: So my background's a chiropractor and I became a chiropractor because I hurt my back and, you know, just was practicing traditional chiropractic for about seven and a half years. But in [00:02:00] 2008, I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and going back a little bit before that, I, you know, how did I know I had hyperthyroidism?
[00:02:10] Well, You know, I was honestly, I was dieting detoxifying, and so I was losing a lot of weight, but I had no idea at the time that was related to the hyperthyroidism. But one day I was walking around a Sam's club and they have those automated blood pressure machines. And I took my blood pressure and my blood pressure was fine, but my heart rate was elevated and that was kind of unusual.
[00:02:33] So I. Of course, the next few days it was just measuring my heart rate at home. And, you know, every time I measured it was between 90 and let's say like one 10 beats per minute, which definitely is on the higher side. And, you know, so I started putting the pieces together and the weight loss and the elevated heart rate.
[00:02:51] And so I saw our regular doctor. Did a thyroid panel diagnosed me with hyperthyroidism. And then eventually I saw an [00:03:00] endocrinologist and endocrinologists did some additional testing and diagnosed me with graves' disease. And I, at that point I knew I was going to take a natural approach just because of my backgrounds.
[00:03:13] And so I. No change my diet and did some testing and took supplements. And we'll, I'm sure we'll talk about some of these things here and, and long story short, since 2009, I've been a remission. And at that point, when I was in remission, I just decided to make the transition from practicing chiropractic, to helping people with, you know, thyroid autoimmune thyroid conditions.
[00:03:38] And that in a nutshell is my backup.
[00:03:41] Julie Michelson: And I always, I always feel like I'm cheating because the whole purpose of this podcast is to let people know they can reverse their symptoms. They can create remission, they can heal Without a doubt, everybody that comes on has if not, you know, some kind of personal healing, healing story, if not their own, it's a loved [00:04:00] one.
[00:04:00] And so I, I'm so excited to dive into, most people have heard and I've had several episodes that address Hashimoto's right. So a lot of people, when they hear autoimmune thyroid, that's what they think of. They think of low thyroid. Often we think of, you know I don't know if this is maybe that's cause that's when I got it.
[00:04:24] I think of women in their forties, right. Or perimenopausal women, women who've had other auto-immunity. Although I. More common, younger and younger. But, but graves is much more rare and yet they're both autoimmune thyroid issues. So I want to dive into some of those differences. And then that overlap.
[00:04:48] Because people say to me all the time and I have my RA the right way program and I'll get, somebody will contact me and they'll say, well, can I work with you? I don't have RA, but I [00:05:00] have what doesn't matter, fill in the blank. And you and I were talking before I hit, we hit record as far as there are certain approaches that are just across the board going to, you know, address.
[00:05:11] Auto immune issues in general. And yet the symptoms for the tour are so different. So I think people here graves' or hyperthyroid, and there's an urgency, it's almost really a one-time. Right. Sometimes it takes people a really long time to get diagnosed with Hashi's because their symptoms just aren't that alarming for providers.
[00:05:37] And I feel like the reverse is true when, if somebody in the Western medicine world tests and find out your hyper thyroid, there's this urgent, you know, get it taken care of. And I want to start there because. Because of that, I feel, I feel like there's an urgency to [00:06:00] find the functional medicine practitioner that can help you, or that are alternative practitioner that can help you because you know, share a little bit about that typical endocrinology route.
[00:06:10] What did they want to do for you or to you when you were diagnosed?
[00:06:16] Eric Osansky: Sure we could talk about all that. And so you're right. Definitely what hyperthyroid is, then there's more urgency and it's usually diagnosed a lot faster because with Hashimoto's. Th th the process, I mean, they're both automating processes, but what Hashimoto's, some of the symptoms could be attributed to so many other things.
[00:06:36] So when someone experiencing fatigue, for example, you know, a lot of different things can cause fatigue or, you know, weight gain and, you know, just. A lot of people just attribute it to, well, you know, I've just been working too hard and, you know, just to just diet as far as weight, weight gain and so it'll, and then if they go see an endocrinologist, they might not even show up as being hypo [00:07:00] on the, on the, with the blood test.
[00:07:02] Sometimes maybe subclinical hypothyroid with a TSH is normal and thyroid hormone levels are at least within the lab range, but it takes. Most of the time years for its effect, the thyroid Glen. So with what hyperthyroid. You know, if someone is having a lot of weight loss, which isn't always the case for hyperthyroidism, it doesn't one of the more classic symptoms.
[00:07:24] And I lost 42 pounds when I dealt with hyperthyroidism. So, so that was a lot of weight. And then as I was giving my story before, when combined with the. Elevated resting heart rate and heart palpitations. I mean, some of these symptoms could be pretty extreme and scary. So most people aren't going to wait around to, to see their doctor.
[00:07:44] They usually go into events sooner than later get diagnosed. And so, so yeah, big difference between. Hashimoto's and graves' disease, hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism of course, are the symptoms. And the, and sometimes it could be overlap. People with [00:08:00] Hashimoto's can definitely get hyper symptoms. Usually it's more transient, whereas people with graves' disease, again, they could also experience some hypo symptoms, but usually the hyper symptoms are more prominent.
[00:08:12] And I mentioned a few of them and you could get decreased muscle mass and. Loose stools diarrhea. Again, it's just a lot of different symptoms that again are, like you said, kind of the complete opposite with with Hashimoto's where you're a lot of times, most of the time gaining weight and you have coldness where again, you may have more like heat intolerance with the hyperthyroidism.
[00:08:36] As far as when I went to my endocrinologist and it was only a single visit, honestly, because again, I knew I was going to take a natural approach. So I just wanted to really get that official diagnosis. And I didn't have the knowledge now that I had back then. So, you know, I did want to see, just see a specialist and, and quite frankly, I think it's a good idea for most people to at least get that initial diagnosis and see, [00:09:00] you know, an endocrinologist, but.
[00:09:02] When I saw the endocrinologist, she recommended anti-viral medication methimazole specifically, which is commonly recommended for ants for hyperthyroidism. A lot of endocrinologists do pressure, their patients to receive radioactive iodine, which is a bleeding, the thyroid as well as thyroid surgery. And honestly, she did not pressure me.
[00:09:23] She was one of the rare cases. And again, back then, I didn't know any better, but then as I've been working with patients over the years, I realized that. Very common for them to at least bring it up and many times pressure, but she, she was more laid back. She did recommend the ants at the, our medication.
[00:09:38] And again, I chose not to take that and we can talk more about that. That's like an herbal approach to manage the symptoms, but but yeah, the urgency that we were again, chatting before this, about how many endocrinologists panic and, you know, they just are scared to death of the person being hyper. And you know, of course the medication can do the job, but.[00:10:00]
[00:10:00] To be fair. Side-effects are comments. I'm sure. They're also concerned about the side effects of ants at the are medication, but everything's risks versus benefits. And I think it's a little bit extreme, you know, for the, to, especially when it's an autoimmune condition, it's not primarily a thyroid condition to have the person, you know, either ablate their thyroid gland or remove the thyroid.
[00:10:20] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And I have, I'm sure you encounter as well, you know? That route and that doesn't solve their problems when it's auto-immune unfortunately it may solve the thyroid level at that point. But I, and I had shared with you in a week, we've had experienced in our family with, and that's why we do the podcast, right?
[00:10:44] Because when you have a trusted physician who is acting, you know, in, in good faith, like there is urgency. I know at least in our experience it was, you know, concerned about. Right. You [00:11:00] mentioned elevated heart rate. People often, it is interesting other than the weight loss you didn't have yet other physical symptom, you didn't feel palpitations.
[00:11:10] You didn't have that racing. But that was the, oh my gosh, heart, heart, heart. We need to do this right away. And, and for me, I find that. And again, it's the both sides. It's unfortunate. It could take somebody years to get diagnosed with Hashimoto's and it's unfortunate that the people feel it, then a sense of panic.
[00:11:30] And like, you need to take action immediately to fix this. Not everybody has that first instinct of like, oh, I think all. Check other approaches. So you mentioned that you, you used, and we don't have to get into, you can get a specific or not. I know this is not medical advice, everybody we're sharing stories.
[00:11:49] But again, we went from, you know, you need this antithyroid medication and again, many people here, you know, or [00:12:00] ablation or removal and you were able to. So you mentioned herbs. I know there was diet change. Let's talk a little bit about, okay. You know what, that it doesn't actually have to be your story.
[00:12:13] Let's just talk about, because I'm sure you're you have so much more experience now. Let's talk about your approach. Somebody comes to you and they have graves. What does that look like? Where do you even start?
[00:12:28] Eric Osansky: Sure. Well, like many other practitioners, of course I have them fill out a comprehensive health history and all that good stuff. But one of the first things I do want to make sure that they're doing is keeping safe. So if they. If they're taking out anti-viral are medication. And if they're tolerating, well, really no side effects are minimal side effects.
[00:12:49] And if they're okay with taking it, you know, I'm, I'm definitely not going to try to talk them out of it and which I can anyway. I'm not you know, I'm not the prescribing doctor, so I would never do that anyway, but, [00:13:00] but honestly, a lot of people need to take the ants out their medication. So in my, my situation, when I dealt with hyperthyroidism and I was giving them a feminism.
[00:13:12] I dismissed it initially, but my thought process was let's go ahead and try to manage the symptoms naturally. And if it didn't work, then I would be open to take an anti-viral medication. But there's, as you mentioned, we're not giving specific recommendations, but there's a, there's an herb called bugleweed.
[00:13:31] And there's another one called mother ward and bugleweed has anti-authority properties, so it helps to lower the thyroid hormone levels. And so I figured I'd give it a try. And when I dealt with hyperthyroid and when I, when I had graves, I didn't know anybody else who successfully used these methods.
[00:13:47] So I was skeptical, but, you know, I just figured I'd give it a try. And the bugle weed worked really well with me. It doesn't work with everybody, you know, I'd say probably like 70% of do fine, but that's why if someone's [00:14:00] taking SSRI medication, you want. Make the transition. Cause you don't know if the bugle weed will be effective and again, different story.
[00:14:07] If you're having a lot of side effects or if it's elevated living liver enzymes. So that's number one, as far as making sure you know, they're safe. And and again, it could be either medication through their prescribing doctor or an herbal approach. And then after that, just trying to find the triggers and underlying imbalances.
[00:14:31] I mean, some of this could be accomplished at a health history, but I do like to do different types of testing. Most of my patients will go through adrenal testing and probably part, a big part of that is because when I had grazed, my adrenals were in horrible condition and I, I, I was in denial, so I didn't think they would be as bad as they were.
[00:14:49] I figured that I, I thought I did a good job of managing the stress, but but yeah, it was definitely wrong. So, so yeah.
[00:14:57] Julie Michelson: I always say you don't have to feel [00:15:00] stressed out to have texts adrenals.
[00:15:03] Eric Osansky: Exactly. Yeah. So, but yeah, adrenal testing, you know, sometimes I'll do conference of stool panels. I mean, it depends on the person, you know, adrenals pretty much what everybody blood testing, you know, what, with certain blood tests with everyone and then really on a case by case basis, I, I try to be more conservative with the.
[00:15:22] With the testing, but it does depend on the person if someone's having a lot of gut issues and, and, and you can't always go by symptoms. So sometimes it's challenging, but, but you know, you got to start somewhere. And so I used a case history in the initial consultation as the starting point that determined what tests the person will need or think they need.
[00:15:40] And then when we get the results, you know, give recommendations based on that. I mean, initially. Also do things to help with inflammation. Like a lot of other practitioners do when it comes to auto muni things such as making sure they have sufficient omega threes and, you know agents help with the gut like probiotics.
[00:15:58] And like I said, it depends on the [00:16:00] person. I try not to overload them with supplements, especially in the beginning, because I want to try to find answers.
[00:16:06] Julie Michelson: Right.
[00:16:07] Eric Osansky: But yeah, essentially that's the beginning approach, just trying to make sure they're safe and then try to have them do some testing to find some of the triggers underlying imbalances.
[00:16:17] And of course the diet. So the diet, diet, and lifestyle is huge. So I do recommend dietary changes and you know, in this day and age, a lot of people go on the internet and they, they follow, you know, Have an idea of what's a follow, you know, just w whether it's autoimmune paleo diet or paleo diet, or, you know, some will follow a ketogenic diet.
[00:16:37] But to me, diets are a starting point. There's no one diet that fits everybody, but yeah. Yeah. But it is important of course, to eat a clean, healthy anti-inflammatory.
[00:16:51] Julie Michelson: I love that. So you mentioned, you know, I feel like it's the word I say most, which is inflammation, right. You're looking for those drivers. And here's the [00:17:00] difference between you talked about symptom management. And also root cause and looking for triggers. And there's, that's the piece, you know, the endocrinologists are looking for symptom management and leaving it at that.
[00:17:16] What. do some people get graves? Like what you hear auto-immune thyroid. And we can all kind of wrap our head around. Okay, fine. You know, it's targeting thyroid, but what would Dr. Graves? And I don't know that I personally really want to know your answer to this one. I don't know that there isn't an answer.
[00:17:38] It's probably like diet, not one thing, but how does that even happen?
[00:17:44] Eric Osansky: So you probably heard of the triad of autoimmunity to three legged stool of what on unity. And that really applies to different autoimmune conditions. So there does seem to be a genetic predisposition, but as you know, just because you have the genes doesn't mean that you're going to develop a specific [00:18:00] health condition.
[00:18:01] So the other two components are. Equally importance and that's so number two would be exposure to one or more environmental triggers. And then the third component is an increase in its hustle, permeability, which is a medical term for leaky gut. And so. W w so in my case, what graves' disease, you know, when I D I did start in testing, I'm sure stress was one of the main triggers, you know, th there's I look at four categories of triggers.
[00:18:30] So, so food, stress, infections, and chemicals, and, you know, you can it's, you could have multiple. Trigger. So know stress. I think it's safe to say in most people is at least a factor. You know, it doesn't mean it's the only trigger many times. That's not the case. So that's where again, diet comes into play and eliminating common food triggers.
[00:18:52] And some people might have a gut infection such as H pylori or, you know, there's some evidence. Viruses, like [00:19:00] Epstein-Barr at least my play a role and, you know, still were learning a lot, but you know, the, so the triggers and then the gut and most of the immune system cells are in the gut. You need a healthy gut to have a healthy immune system.
[00:19:12] So it does make sense that. God has compromised that that at least could be a factor when it comes to auto-immunity. So that, those seem when it comes to different autoimmune conditions, at least as far as we know now, and there's, you know, there, there are other factors I don't want to get. Too into detail, but like regulatory T-cells, which keep auto-immunity in check.
[00:19:33] But then again, what affects the regulatory T cells and cause them to get lower. So, but, so I really try to make it simple and stick with those three factors because if you address, but again, you're not gonna address the genetics, but if you find remove the triggers, heal the gut, you know, most of the time that will help greatly in getting the autoimmune condition.
[00:19:54] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And I love that you hit on. I remember when I first started this work. [00:20:00] Actually when I first was knee deep, maybe elbow deep in my journey before I even started this work. And I learned about root causes and triggers. And, you know, I, I was looking for my root cause singular, and you'd hear that right.
[00:20:15] Functional medicine is root cause medicine. And, and I, I don't know that I've ever encountered anybody where it's just one thing, right. It, it, where, because I look at. When you say, you know, diet driving inflammation, you know, well, that's a stressor or, you know, all of these things kind of cross categories and nobody lives in a bubble.
[00:20:37] And so, like you said, it's stress may not be the main driver, but it plays a, a role. And so I just like anybody that finds me and comes to work with me That I've yet to encounter somebody who didn't have gut permeability, because by the time they've got 1, 2, 3, 4 autoimmune diagnoses and they [00:21:00] find somebody like me, or like you often, like you it's, it's just a known factor in yeah, we, we test, I, I don't even use.
[00:21:10] Permeability testing, because I always do to create that personalized diet. We're always as we're healing the gut looking at food sensitivities, and when somebody has a two page list of immunoglobulin responses, I know you have leaky gut and we could spend more money. We can check, you know, some people want to, they want the data.
[00:21:31] But it, it, it just is at this point, a known factor, I think.
[00:21:37] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I agree. I used to do a lot of leaky gut testing using a, you know, I use Cyrex labs or intestinal permeability, antigenic tests. And. Just about RD buddy tested positive. And when, when they were negative, I would question, you know, is it, is it a true, is it a true negative or a false negative? And so either way, I just, I started just assuming [00:22:00] everybody.
[00:22:00] Exactly. And the downside of those tests is that. Tell you, what is causing the leaky gut? So you spend a few hundred dollars, you know, you have a leaky gut, but it's really not helpful. I don't think in the healing process, because regardless, like you said, you, you want to focus on the gut. Cause see, I don't think also I've encountered anyone with a perfectly healthy gut.
[00:22:21] Now I've come across people who have no gut symptoms you know, where they're like, oh, I feel fine. My bowel movements are fine, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have a 100 plus. Perfectly healthy gut. I don't think really anybody in this day and age has it with all the exposures that glyphosate and everything that's out there.
[00:22:38] Julie Michelson: I was going to say, you know, I don't think you can step foot on the planet, but it's actually even, you know, I know my, my daughter was born with multiple toxicities because she lived in my cesspool of a womb for nine months. So yeah, you don't even actually have to already be standing on the earth. Our exposure level is [00:23:00] just, is just greater than we can typically manage at this point, unless we're addressing it then unless we're doing these things.
[00:23:09] So you're look, you look for the triggers and you address those. As what you're saying, but number one is make sure the symptoms are managed while you're kind of doing this, this other. So you're using testing. You're using history. Sounds like it's a, it's a process. You mentioned no one diet and you mentioned a few different.
[00:23:35] What I would consider good approaches diet wise. Do you have a preference or how do you guys say somebody comes in and they're on the standard American diet when they get to you in aware, then where do you start? What is your process with, with diet for that thyroid?
[00:23:53] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I mean a good, good question. So, I mean, I do like autoimmune, paleo as a starting point. [00:24:00] Like I said, it's not there, there is no perfect diet for everyone and you have to make modifications for some people. If someone's following just a standard American diet, it might be a real difficult transition to go into AIP.
[00:24:12] So they might. The more, they might make the switch. Initially it's a regular paleo like standard paleo, even Mediterranean. If someone's eating, you know, McDonald's, you know, or other types of fast food on a regular basis and a lot of refined foods and sugars, then again, the really number one goal is to try to eliminate the refined food sugars on healthy oils.
[00:24:35] Just try to eat in as much as you can stick with the whole food. Try to eat organic. I mean, even without following AIP, strictly or paleo, that's a big task for a lot of people. And, you know, for some people just gluten free is a huge challenge. So, so that's where it could depend on the person. We don't want to scare anybody away or to stress them out even further, if they're not ready for, you know, autoimmune, paleo diet, or [00:25:00] even standard paleo diet.
[00:25:01] But those, those would be like kind of starting points. Cause really I do like to do some type of elimination diet. And, you know, and there's no perfect, I guess, perfect method. There's, you know, elimination, diets, food, sensitivity testing. They both have values, but, and everybody has different approaches. So here we've, you know, typically I do a food, a food sensitivity tests.
[00:25:22] I'm sorry. I do a elimination diet and the AIP kind of, to me serves like an elimination diet,
[00:25:29] Julie Michelson: And it will, it is if it's done properly. I, I, it makes me sad. People, you know, show up at a consult and they'll be like, well, I've been on AIP for two years and I'm like, well, tell me about it. And they're still in the elimination phase two years later, which is not how it's I had happened to be an AIP coach.
[00:25:47] So I'm like, no, you're doing it wrong. You know, people think like, oh, AFP is so restrictive. And I'm like, well, did you do your re-introductions? You know, it just depends. But like,
[00:25:57] Eric Osansky: diet. That's a good point. It's yeah.
[00:25:59] Julie Michelson: it's [00:26:00] not, AIP is a lifestyle and, and it is interesting cause AIP also encompasses those other things that you and I are working with.
[00:26:08] Other lifestyle areas. It's really not just food, but people just think of it as this. They think of the elimination phase and they think that's what AIP equals. And it doesn't, but like you said, for some people. That's way too restrictive to jump into. And for other people with a long list of food sensitivities, it's, you're not removing the right foods.
[00:26:31] And so I personally, I use a blend, but, but like you it's, it's all individual and I want to highlight, you said my favorite thing and that's, that's what I always do. We love to ask, you know, well, what's the right diet. Doesn't it, there's a variety of approaches, but the key I believe, and I heard you say it is whole food, real food you know, certain foods for sure.
[00:26:57] All organic, if you can. And if you can't, you know, [00:27:00] definitely at least dirty dozen organic you know, controlling what we can, but. It is amazing what the body can do with real food versus what, you know, what it can't do with all the processed junk.
[00:27:15] Eric Osansky: Yeah, that is true. And one thing that's important to mention this gets back to this. There are people that work with me. And I'm sure people that work with you that once again, even before getting started, they've been on AIP. And like you said, maybe they're not doing it. Right. And and sometimes it's not strict AIP.
[00:27:34] They might really be falling more paleo or worse than that, whether they're following AIP, but you know, eating other things that not are even paleo-friendly. but, but.
[00:27:46] Julie Michelson: I saw that this morning somebody had recommended like a meal of meal planning place. I'm always looking for resources for, for clients. And I went on the website and it was like, oh good. You know, they have a gluten-free menu option. And they had a [00:28:00] paleo menu option. And in the list of what's included in the paleo, it was dairy optional.
[00:28:05] And I'm like, okay, that's not paying, don't call it that paleo. This is why people get confused.
[00:28:11] Eric Osansky: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's weird. But, but yeah, but what I was going to say is that if someone is following a strict AIP diet and not getting results, it doesn't mean that it wasn't beneficial if you were doing everything right. And it wasn't cause, you know, causing an improvement in symptoms and or your blood cells, for example, you know, very well.
[00:28:33] There's probably other factors. And that's where, what I was talking about. Not just food as being a trigger, you know, but it's definitely an regardless of how you feel when following the diet, it's still an important piece of the puzzle. And we definitely both would agree that if you continue eating inflammatory foods or if you follow AI, And you just dismiss it.
[00:28:55] Oh, I followed it for three months or even six months and not nothing changed. I'm going to just go [00:29:00] back to the old diet, you know, that's definitely not, not a good approach because again, you're, you're almost definitely won't heal, taken out approach.
[00:29:07] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And, and, and that's the thing it's never a one prong approach and yes, diet is important. Three or four years ago, that was a ways of the, for me, like kind of the low hanging fruit, the easy starting point with people. Typically these days, We, I mean, I collect information about diet. We don't even start making diet changes until we start with stress management because, you know, I have seen people like you have coming, come in and their diet is dialed in, even, you know, for them individually.
[00:29:42] But their symptoms haven't changed at all. And it's like, oh, well, you know, what's your stress management routine. Oh, I don't have one or, you know and so, and again, it doesn't mean if you just focus on stress, you're going to heal either. It's we have to hit all of these areas. [00:30:00] And it is a, it's a process.
[00:30:02] Eric Osansky: Yeah, exactly. I mean sleep of course. I mean, all these things are important and again, there are. Each a piece of the puzzle, as you said, you know, my, someone might already be eating a great diet AIP and managing stress and sleeping well, but maybe they have a gut infection or maybe their toxic load is too high.
[00:30:22] So that's why it's, it's detective work. That's, that's really the process of, you know, functional medicine doctor is just a. There are some people that they have an autoimmune condition and all they'll do is eliminate gluten. They won't even fi follow strict AIP. They eliminate gluten and then they're like, wow, I feel so much better.
[00:30:40] And maybe their blood test even greatly improve. And so again, you can't compare yourself to other. And it's difficult, especially in the age of social media where you could easily find others who are getting great results, maybe with, you know, diet and again, not following strict AIP. And then you're like, well, you know, if they, if [00:31:00] they could do it, I could do it.
[00:31:01] But then when you try it, you don't get the same results. And that call all comes down to the biochemical individuality as well as, you know, being exposed to different triggers.
[00:31:10] Julie Michelson: I love that. And I, I always say like, like you're saying, we know there's certain things that everybody should do. And I, I joke, I do pick on, I say diet should be individual. It should be whole food. And if you have an autoimmune condition, you should not eat gluten like that for me, is the. that's my own personal opinion because of the research based on science, but that, you know, that gluten does not serve anybody with auto-immunity.
[00:31:40] If you want to, if you take the time to heal your gut. And really do that work to me. It doesn't make sense to put gluten back in and there's no nutritional value that it's not like these are nutrients. We can only get from eating bread or pasta, but that's not required, but, but then like, [00:32:00] you know, beyond that, When people ask me all the time, well, you know, I'll eat what you eat.
[00:32:05] Tell me. And I'm like, I hope you don't have as restricted of a diet as I seem to need to have to, to feel amazing. So that's the other point? As far as not, we've mentioned, you know, the AIP elimination phases restrictive, and it's supposed to be a phase or whatever elimination plan you're doing.
[00:32:27] What are your feelings about that? You know, are there things you tell people, do you tell people, you know, avoid gluten completely, or do you tell them, you know, what's your approach on what people should or shouldn't be eating longterm?
[00:32:43] Eric Osansky: I mean, I agree with you on a, in a perfect world, you know, there's really no needs that eat gluten. I mean really dairy too, but
[00:32:51] Julie Michelson: Thank you. I was like, that's always my and sorry, dad. I, we were in my family back there, the puppies, [00:33:00] it, my family was in the dairy business. And so I always feel like I should apologize when I say dairy is inflammatory.
[00:33:09] Eric Osansky: Yeah. Now I will say, I will admit that, you know, since I've been in remission since 2009 now, have I been completely dairy free? Haven't had zero gluten exposures, you know, I'd be lying if I said. You know, and it's, some people are definitely better than me and, you know, cause like you said, there was some people that flare up when they you know, get exposed to even a small amount of gluten, but, but you're playing with fire and same thing.
[00:33:38] Oh. You know, and all the gluten exposures, you know, that I've had over the last 12 plus years and you know, same thing with dairy and also, I mean, there's, you know, there's health benefits. There are so many other health benefits that other foods too. So so I guess to answer your question. It really is [00:34:00] up, obviously it's up to the person, but, and there, there are some people just like with you, I'm sure.
[00:34:05] Even without giving your opinion, they say, you know what, I'm just going to go gluten free. Sometimes I'll say, I want to go, you know, I'm going to go dairy free permanently. But yeah, I think in a perfect world, we all probably should go gluten free and maybe. Dairy-free, but I will say, you know, I have no problem eating a gluten-free pizza, but, you know, and I know there's the diet cheese and all that, but usually I do have, if I have a, if I have a gluten-free pizza, it is, I am usually having a dairy.
[00:34:31] So.
[00:34:32] Julie Michelson: I well, and I would support that. I think sometimes the alternatives, the alternatives are not ideal either. And this is why I love the reintroduction phase. I always joke. I said, I can tell you all the reasons I think you should never eat gluten again. You need to feel how you feel when you eat gluten.
[00:34:52] And I do have clients that it always makes me sad. They do a gluten-free intro and they don't notice anything. They [00:35:00] feel totally fine. And so those are the people that are going to occasionally have gluten and that's fine. They're gonna, they're going to stay great. And then I have people that, you know, I always say.
[00:35:11] What your body tells you is what's going to determine what's a never food. What's a, sometimes food. What's a once a year food. I don't know. Some people, you know, depending on symptoms, like I'm like, okay, then don't eat that before you get, give a big speech or, you know, it just depends on what your symptoms are going to be.
[00:35:31] Eric Osansky: Yeah, I agree in it. And I mentioned a pizza, obviously when I was getting in remission. Avoiding pizza for quite a long time. So it's and it's, you know, so just want to make that clear. That's not one of the first foods that you you'll be re-introducing if you're doing AIT. So.
[00:35:46] Julie Michelson: Yes, we usually, re-introduce both the area. I'm the gluten toward the end. And I too, I was dairy free for years and years and the more I learned and the more I practiced, the more I realized, oh, [00:36:00] there are many people who. You know, goat, dairy doesn't seem to be an issue. I wonder if I'm one of those people.
[00:36:06] And I am one of those people. And so I will have that once in a while because it doesn't bother me. I'm still probably not the most ideal thing to have all the time for me. But I can, I can get away with it. And I always say, it's not about perfection, right? It's about healing and creating results.
[00:36:25] So, you know, for you it's, you can have the pizza. I had a pizza yesterday, but I made it myself with a grain-free crest and pesto and no cheese, but
[00:36:38] Eric Osansky: And he's shit. I mean, if you're eating ideally. If you're having a pizza, you really do want to try to make it on your own because if you go outside, even if it's gluten free, they're using probably unhealthy oils, like soybean oil and who knows what else in the pizza. So and then, you know, the dairy, if you go out, it's, I'm sure it's having the hormones.
[00:36:57] I mean, there are some places that are more [00:37:00] natural, organic. There there's a place in the Charlotte area that does have healthier pizzas, but still it's best to. To make it on your own. But one question I have for you, since we're talking about dairy as an AIP coach, what are your thoughts about geek?
[00:37:14] Because I do have a lot of patients asking you about gee and according to some reintroduction diets, G is allowed in the earlier stages of Rancho.
[00:37:23] Julie Michelson: I, again, this is just speaking as a functional medicine coach and I allow my clients use gait and less. We know if you have a dairy allergy, don't, don't go there. Don't go near there. But I let my clients use the during elimination. For dairy. And actually I haven't taken a step further and this may come from my bullet proof coach time, but w I, we will do butter as a separate re-introduction because I have a lot of clients who are, there's so little protein in the butter that they, they do better.
[00:37:55] I'm personally, I do find with butter. So a lot of people [00:38:00] are fine with butter and then people like my poor dog. She can feel it, it doesn't work for her. But even she who's super sensitive to.
[00:38:10] Eric Osansky: Okay.
[00:38:11] Julie Michelson: so, yeah, we have good success with it. I, I used to be this'll be my first time cursing on the podcast. I used to be a hard-ass and I used to be all about perfection.
[00:38:21] And now I'm about, you know, realistic what's your lifestyle, make it sustainable and, you know, control and reduce where we can so that we can handle what we're not gonna be.
[00:38:36] Eric Osansky: Yeah, it makes sense.
[00:38:37] Julie Michelson: Yeah, I like it. So, and I know you, you ha have a gift for listeners. Tell us a little bit about your thyroid checklists.
[00:38:50] Eric Osansky: Yeah. So my thyroid checklist, it's a checklist to help people. Be more aware of the different types of triggers [00:39:00] and you know, the ways on how to find the triggers because that's a, as we were discussing, that's a big part of getting into remission. You know, as we mentioned, the genetics, we can't control, but we can't do things to find or move the triggers.
[00:39:14] And I mentioned the four categories, four main categories of triggers, but then there are different triggers within each category. So with the thyroid checklist, Just to help with awareness and you know, where, how people could find those tricks.
[00:39:34] Julie Michelson: That's amazing and so helpful because it allows, you said, you know, functional medicine, practitioners or detectives, it allows people to start their detective work. Right. They can, you can share what you find through using the checklist with your practitioner. And, you know, because as you mentioned earlier, it is such a process.
[00:39:55] I always say, you know, there's so many rocks to look under. If you ha, this is where you get [00:40:00] your clues of where do you start or what, where are you going to move the needle the most by, by addressing? So the link to the checklist will be in the show notes. So thank you for sharing that with, with listeners, it's a huge asset for people. What is one step people can do today right now? What can people start? What can they do to start to improve their health?
[00:40:29] Eric Osansky: It's hard to just say one step, but well, because diets so important. So, so, so I'm going to go the stress management route though, just because in my situation, stress was huge not to say diets in a play a role, but also in the literature. There are studies showing, you know, I know correlate correlation doesn't always mean causation, but there, there is research showing that that stress could be a potential factor, potential trigger when it comes to graves' disease.
[00:40:59] And of [00:41:00] course, we can say that with all autoimmune conditions, but there's not research with every single autoimmune condition. And then just, you know, being that I've worked with people with graves' hyperthyroidism graves' disease. For so long now it's definitely a big factor and you kind of alluded to it earlier.
[00:41:17] A lot of people overlook the stress management and they focus on the diet well before not everybody, but it's not uncommon for people to clean up their diet on their own, but they're not doing enough from a stress, stress management perspective. And I think people should be. Things every day from a stress management perspective.
[00:41:39] So you also get some people that are doing things, but they might be going to a yoga studio maybe like twice a week or maybe zooming it out their home. And, you know, that's their definition of stress management or they're exercising, which, you know, I feel better when I exercise and I do think it helps it stress, but you know, it's more of a [00:42:00] sympathetic activity, not a power sympathy, parasympathetic activity.
[00:42:05] So yeah, long, long response to your question, but if I had to choose one thing and again, it's difficult, diet is definitely up there, but I would say the stress management,
[00:42:16] Julie Michelson: well, and you would say daily practice.
[00:42:20] Eric Osansky: correct? Exactly.
[00:42:22] Julie Michelson: and that's key. And I always say to everybody, you know, find your path, whatever you will do daily is the best daily practice. I don't think, you know, breath work is more important than yoga or more important than meditation, or, you know, I joke a lot of my clients who say the word meditation, and you can literally see their blood pressure rise.
[00:42:44] So I say, you know, whatever, you'll do daily.
[00:42:47] Eric Osansky: Agreed.
[00:42:49] Julie Michelson: is the way. So before we wrap up links for everywhere to find, you will be in the show notes as well. But where's the best place for, for listeners if they're listening and they don't want to [00:43:00] look in the show notes, what's the best place to find you?
[00:43:03] Eric Osansky: I would say, well, I'll give two. So one is my website, not my main website is natural endocrine solutions.com. And that has hundreds of different articles. Blog posts. A lot of them focus on hyperthyroidism. There are some also for hypothyroidism Hashimoto's, but then also my podcast, which if you visit savemythyroid.com and click on podcast or visit apple or Spotify and just type in save my thyroid and that has a greater emphasis on those with hyperthyroidism. So like pretty much all the solo episodes I do, focus on hyperthyroidism. And then when doing interviews, you know, that that could benefit people with both graves' and Hashimoto's, but yeah, those would be the two main resources.
[00:43:52] Julie Michelson: Love that. And I love the name of your podcast. It's the best
[00:43:56] Eric Osansky: Thank you.
[00:43:57] Julie Michelson: Dr. Eric, thank you so much. You've shared [00:44:00] amazing gold with us today
[00:44:03] Eric Osansky: Thank you, Julie. It was, it was a pleasure.
[00:44:07] Julie Michelson: for everyone listening, remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspiredliving.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I will see you next week.
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My Guest For This Episode
My Guest For This Episode
Connect with Eric Osansky, DC
Eric Osansky, DC
Graves Disease Expert
Dr. Eric Osansky is a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, and a certified functional medicine practitioner who helps people recover from thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions.
He is author of the books "Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves Disease" and "Hashimoto's Triggers".
Dr. Osansky was personally diagnosed in 2008 with Graves’ disease, and after taking a natural treatment approach has been in remission since 2009. After seeing how well natural treatment methods helped with his condition, he began using these natural thyroid treatment protocols to help others with different types of thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions, including hyperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease, and hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis.
He is author of the books "Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves Disease" and "Hashimoto's Triggers".
Dr. Osansky was personally diagnosed in 2008 with Graves’ disease, and after taking a natural treatment approach has been in remission since 2009. After seeing how well natural treatment methods helped with his condition, he began using these natural thyroid treatment protocols to help others with different types of thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions, including hyperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease, and hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis.
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