Episode 20
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Today we are joined by Todd White, founder of Dry Farm Wines and leader in the natural wine movement. Todd is a self-described biohacker who’s love of wine, and dedication to his health and the health of the planet inspired him to start this fast-growing company. In today’s episode, Todd educates us on the present state of the wine industry, what is likely to be hidden in the wine you’re drinking, and the uniquely high standards that Dry Farm Wines uses in their curating and lab testing process. Once you listen to this conversation, you will understand why I get so excited about the gift that Dry Farm Wines has given me… being able to enjoy delicious wine, while taking the best care of my health.
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Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with auto-immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we are joined by Todd white founder of dry farm wines and a leader in the natural wine movement. Todd is a self-described biohacker whose love of wine and dedication to his health and the planet inspired him to start this fast-growing company.
[00:00:58] Todd educates us on the [00:01:00] present state of the wine industry. What is likely to be hidden in the wine you're drinking and the uniquely high standards that dry farm wines uses in their curating and lab testing process.
[00:01:13] Once you listen to this conversation, you'll understand why I get so excited about how dry farm wines has given me the gift of being able to enjoy delicious wine while taking the best care of my health.
[00:01:26] Todd welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:30] Todd White: I'm excited to be here. We have lots to talk about.
[00:01:33] Julie Michelson: We do. I'm going to try to really behave myself because I have so much, I want to ask you. I want to start with, I am so familiar with your company and I've watched it grow exponentially over the past while I've been watching it for five years. But I have no idea how you. Came to be the founder of this incredible [00:02:00] dry farm wines.
[00:02:00] What brought you into this space? How did this happen? It's such a unique thing.
[00:02:07] Todd White: Yeah, it was, it, it didn't start off as a business. I wasn't even thinking of it as a business. I was trying to find a healthier way to drink wine. And so. You know, I've been a lifelong wine affection auto I've drank alcohol for most of my adult life. Even had a tenuous relationship with drinking for probably 10 or 15 or 20 years when I was young used to play pretty hard.
[00:02:31] And then for the last 25 years, I've only drank wine. And. I have become a star. I've been a biohacker for probably before biohacking was biohacking. And I've always been experimenting with fitness and diet regiments, and various biohacking diets are probably the most common biohackers diet. And. You know, I've found for me that that generally low [00:03:00] carb dieting and low carb nutritional programming was the best to achieve my goals.
[00:03:06] And I've been experimenting with the ketogenic diets since the Atkins diet came out in the 1980s. And. So, but became really quite serious. Biohacker seven or eight years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And, and the ketogenic diet seven years ago started to bubble up on the French of the biohacking community.
[00:03:30] It was not in any way to mainstream down until probably like two or three years ago, but at the time, because the work of the dominant diag is Stino. The ketogenic diet started to get some biohacking attention and performance channels. So I started a therapeutic ketogenic diet, which is very different than the diet I'm on today.
[00:03:53] Today I'm on today. I will call modified ketogenic diet, which is more like Atkins at the time. The therapeutic [00:04:00] ketogenic diet is like 80% fat, right? Very low carbohydrate and very low protein. It's mainly fat. And it was extraordinary, but it's not really sustainable over a long period of time. For me, it's not, not interesting enough, but so anyway, I was, had become ketogenic and about the same time.
[00:04:21] And I don't know if it's because of keto though. Reported side effect that some people have lower alcohol tolerances once they become keto. I don't know because there were so many other how was aging and, you know, there was so many co-factors that I was in a more stressful period in my life. I, you know, there were so many co-factors, I don't know.
[00:04:42] I just found that I wasn't enjoying drinking anymore. And I thought it was the high alcohol and wines. Cause wines had been creeping up in alcohol over the last 30 years. And they're the highest they've ever been in the wine industry loves alcohol because it's addictive and it's a domino drug. And when I say a [00:05:00] domino drug the more you drink, the more you are likely to drink, right?
[00:05:04] So the higher, the alcohol, the slippery that slope becomes. So I considered not stopped drinking for a little while and I didn't want to do that. And so so I started looking around for lower alcohol wines. This is how the speeding. Because it surprises people to hear me say this, but alcohol is a dangerous neurotoxin and it really ruins millions of lives every year.
[00:05:30] And some people just shouldn't drink at all. Right. And unless we really think carefully about drinking, most of us should drink unless we're thinking about drinking carefully. Right. And so. And that's what I help people think through is educate them to think about how they drink and what they're drinking.
[00:05:50] Right. And so, because I, I don't think I love wine. I don't love alcohol, which is, which is why. You [00:06:00] know, which is why I started looking for lower alcohol wines. I thought I just was having an intolerance to alcohol and needed to drink class, but I don't want to drink less. I just wanted to drink lower alcohol.
[00:06:10] So I could still drink the same amount in terms of volume, but not have the same effect. So anyway, that's how that happened. And then along that way, accidentally discovered the natural wine revolution, which was just beginning in central France. I met a parade. I met an American who lives in Paris and imports natural wines to the United States.
[00:06:34] I met him completely by accident when I was searching for low alcohol wines. And, and, and from that, I was like, I discovered this one specific guy with a palette that I like with these natural wines. I'd never heard of a natural wine. And so it's very confusing to consumers because you say, oh, I'm in the natural wine business.
[00:06:56] They're like, aren't all wines natural. And they're not for [00:07:00] reasons that we're going to discuss, but, but, so that was it. And I discovered natural wines. And then I had made, I live in Napa. I had made some wine back in 2005, a hobby project. And so I knew a little about, about, Knology and lab testing wines.
[00:07:17] So I took these natural wines and I started lab testing and quantifying them for specific attributes around health and purity and taste that I liked. And so. I started buying these wines and kind of select, I'm still not thinking of it as a business, but I started sharing these wines with friends demand who were also athletes and performance biohackers, and they're always wine tastes great.
[00:07:42] And I don't give me a hangover from it and I feel better. And so where can you get these now? Like where you can't
[00:07:48] Julie Michelson: house.
[00:07:49] Todd White: And so, yeah, you can't get the, first of all, they're impossible to find at the time. And second of all, if you, you know, if you want the quantification that that [00:08:00] ad selected, you can't go out and find those.
[00:08:03] Right. So at that point I started thinking about a business and I, the very first kind of. Entree into the health world. We became the official wine of Dave Asprey and Bulletproof and the Bulletproof labs.
[00:08:21] Julie Michelson: Which is how I met you.
[00:08:22] Todd White: Right. And Dave doesn't drink and Dave Asprey doesn't drink and had never endorsed an alcohol product of any kind before.
[00:08:33] And then we became the official wine of Bulletproof. And so that's kind of where it started. And then from there. I started doing podcasts. The first podcast I did was Bulletproof radio with Dave Asprey and then mark systems, primal primal blueprint. And now I've done hundreds of podcasts, educating people about what's wrong with conventional wines and why they should think about their drinking and why they should be drinking [00:09:00] lower alcohol or.
[00:09:01] Right. So, so that that's sort of how it began and then it just, just sort of exploded from there because you do feel better. It's better for you. It's better for the planet and all kinds of reasons why you should drink these wines. Right. And then the main thing I think that people love about them is that they taste better and you feel better and, and that tastes difference.
[00:09:25] And the feeling that you have. During drinking and afterwards is quite notable. And for regular wine drinkers, they notice a very meaningful difference. And so, and even today it remains, we're the only company in the world to do lab testing and to make these promises right. And two, we have some copycat,
[00:09:49] Julie Michelson: I was going to say, I've
[00:09:50] Todd White: have some copycat competitors, but they don't do what we do.
[00:09:53] Julie Michelson: things. Yeah.
[00:09:55] Todd White: I mean, because of our success naturally, we've had lookalikes, [00:10:00] who've tried. Imitate us, but they don't, none of them do lab testing and none of them, none of them have the stringent criteria that we have all day. They just talk, marketing, speak, you know, but they're not really committed to what we do.
[00:10:14] So it's shocking that somebody hasn't just copied us in totality, but they haven't, you know, they were, we still remain, you still remain the only company that does what we do.
[00:10:25] Julie Michelson: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Todd White: So that's how it got started. I think, let me list when we talk about wine and what's wrong with it, let me start at the beginning about why this has happened.
[00:10:38] And it's, it's an old fashion American idea called money and greed. Right? And so what's happened in the wine industry is the same thing that's happened in our foods. So in our food supply, basically it's the massive corporate consolidation. Whereabouts 10 companies control most of all the food that flows across the country in one way or another.
[00:10:59] Julie Michelson: Yeah.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Todd White: And so in the wine industry over the last 30 or 40 years, you've had massive corporate consolidation fueled by wall street money. And so public money and greed and a collusion with the government, which we'll talk about. And so the Wyman industry has been in bed with the government for a long time. But when we talk them, it's consolidation three giant wine conglomerates manufacturer, 52% of the wine drank in the U S but when you go in the grocery store and you see big shelves and lines of wine and hundreds or thousands of different brands and labels, most of those wines are made by a handful of times.
[00:11:41] The top 30 companies in the U S make over 70% of us wine. So now they don't want you to know that. So they hide behind thousands of brands and labels. And labels that have cute farmhouses on the front of the murder Chateau. They want to tell you the [00:12:00] story that you're drinking from a place. Well, that place is usually massive wine factories located in the central valley of California.
[00:12:08] And then they put all these pretty labels on them. Maybe they have an animal on it. Maybe it has a farmhouse. This is just wine is sold. Wine is basically sold through two methods. The label, what it looks like. Or in conjunction with who makes it right? So a brand name, a label or rating, and the rating systems are all fouled up and politically charged to advertising and so on and so forth.
[00:12:38] So wine companies today, In this consolidated fashion, chasing money or not trying to make wine better or healthier, autonomy get cheaper and faster. And so that leads to industrial farming practices. And then that leads to industrial [00:13:00] winemaking practices, which contain additives. Now here's the dirty, dark secret of the winders.
[00:13:07] There's 76 additives approved by the FDA for the use of wine-making. Now everything I'm going to tell you, industry stats, I've already told you 76 additives, which you can Google search 76 FDA approved wine additives. The list will come right up. Everything I'm going to tell you is easily verifiable from a Google search.
[00:13:26] It's just the wine industry's managed somehow to I came along and told a few million, few million people. The wine industry has managed to keep this a secret. And even people, I live in the heart of the Napa valley, even people who live here, even people in the wine industry don't know anything about the attitudes.
[00:13:45] It's just not talked about ever. Right. And so now of the 76 approved additives by the FDA, some of them are natural. And some of them are quite toxic. The problem with this, [00:14:00] the problem, and some are animal products. So if you're a vegan or, or you care about animal rights, there are animal products being used in all of our wines are vegan and animal product free, but there are animal products used in the wine making process.
[00:14:16] Then these products are approved by the FDA. So this, the problem here is there's no transparent. So wine is the only major food product without a contents label on it and no nutritional information, but forget about the nutritional information. It doesn't even have a contents. It's what you want. Now, this is not an accident reason.
[00:14:40] It doesn't have a contents label on this because the wine industry spent millions dollars in lobby money over the years to keep labeling off of wine, because they don't want to disclose what's in it. They want you to believe it's just from integration. And usually that's just not true. And so so this is, this is [00:15:00] part of the collusion between the wine industry and the government is to keep there's a number of collusions, including the three tier distribution system, which protects distributors and wholesalers on the state by state cases.
[00:15:11] And then the third is alcohol stated on a wine bottle, which is why we do lab testing for alcohol. Alcohol stated on the wine bottle is not required by law to be active. And so even though it says 14% by law, it could be 15 and a half percent and still be believe.
[00:15:29] Julie Michelson: Well,
[00:15:30] Todd White: And because I care about alcohol and I think everybody should care about alcohol because alcohol.
[00:15:37] Is a toxin. And if you care about your body, then you want to be careful about how you're utilizing toxins. Right? And so now that being said, we also know that moderate amounts of alcohol can be healthy. And there are a number of studies showing very positive neurological and biological [00:16:00] outcomes for heart disease.
[00:16:01] And then also for neurological function where moderate alcohol use is. Shown to be helpful, but the problem is when we get away from moderate into something that's destructive, then it's no longer helpful. And so I think if you're going to drink, you need to think about, you need to know what you're drinking.
[00:16:20] They know what's in it because I care about what I put in my body. So you need to know what's in it. And then think about what the alcohol content is, so that you can drink in a healthier way. And so whether you buy wine from us or not, I think you should be drinking natural wine. Not that you should be drinking lower alcohol.
[00:16:38] So before we take a break here on kind of my piece, let's talk about what a natural wine is and how that differs from conventional wine, because natural wine, while it's a confusing term to people don't know what it is. Natural wine is a very specific type of. We're the largest [00:17:00] buyer and of natural wines for world.
[00:17:02] And it's a very small category, only less than one 10th of 1% of the wines in the world are natural. The restaurant conventional. So you go to the grocery store, you're not looking at any natural wine. There is no natural wine there. Even if you see an organic wine, that doesn't mean it's natural. And this is also quite confusing because all natural wines are always organic, but not all organic wines are not.
[00:17:26] So that becomes further confusing. Right. So
[00:17:30] Julie Michelson: Then you end up traveling like I do with wine in your suitcase.
[00:17:33] Todd White: right, right. Well, I traveled with my own wine for sure.
[00:17:37] Julie Michelson: I traveled with your wine as well.
[00:17:40] Todd White: nice, nice. So here's the deal? Here's what makes a natural wine. There are only three attributes that are, that that determine what natural wine. Number one natural wines are always organically or biodynamically farmed. That's chemical free [00:18:00] farming and biodynamic farming.
[00:18:01] Isn't advanced prescriptive. Of organic farming. So all by bowel biodynamic farming is always organic. So it's either organic or biodynamically farm. Number two, this one's a little bit more confusing. Number two, natural wines are always fermented with wild indigenous native yeast. Conventional wines are fermented with the GMO lab culture yeast.
[00:18:32] Now, what does that mean? And why do they do. On the skin of every great Berry at the time of harvest whether it's no matter how it's farmed, no matter what, how it's going to be fermented every great Berry in the world at the time of harvest has a white waxy film on the outside of the Berry. You can scrape it off with your finger.
[00:18:53] Now that is yeast. That yeast is collected naturally through the air [00:19:00] indigenous to the vineyard where the fruit is. It is that yeast, that natural wine growers use to ferment the wine. And what's called a spontaneous fermentation. Why is it called spontaneous? Because the only thing required to make a wine is, is sugar filled, grape juice and yeast.
[00:19:24] You put yeast into sugar, filled grapes. And at the right temperature, when the yeast activates you'll start fermenting wine. That's the reason it's called spontaneous because you don't need to add anything. Everything you need to make wine is on the grapes and the grapes and on the grapes.
[00:19:41] Julie Michelson: Well,
[00:19:42] Todd White: Now convention now.
[00:19:45] Conventional winemakers do not use this cheese for fermentation for several reasons. One it's pretty fragile and it's difficult to work with, and it requires a lot of coddling and attention. And you can't make [00:20:00] wine in very large volumes using this native yeast. It's too unstable. So the first thing the conventional wine maker does is that they press the juice from the berries, goes into a 10.
[00:20:13] And then they pour software dioxide into the wine, into the grape juice and they kill the native yeast. Sulfur dioxide kills yeast. So they kill the native yeast and then they inoculate it with this GMO lab culture. And the reason they do that is because the yeast is very sturdy. It's been modified to be very strong.
[00:20:40] It also will, would high withstand a higher alcohol environment and you can buy these yeast and flavor profiles. So let's say that you have this industrial farm grape in central California. You want it to taste like it's from, from Italy, they have a yeast for that. So you can buy these yeast to enhance flavor [00:21:00] profiles.
[00:21:00] Now. I'll tell you how you closely relate to understanding that that's true and why that makes sense. As you know, during the pandemic, we had a lot of. People baking sourdough bread, right? The sourdough bread craft movement kind of exploded during the pandemic. And everybody was eager to get somebody else's mother yeast, because you know, it had this better flavor.
[00:21:25] It was more complex. So the yeast imparts a flavor, complexity to whatever you choose to from it. And the source of the yeast depends on the complexity of the flavor. It was no different making wine. It's just these modified. Are modified to have certain flavor types. Now, what does that mean for our help?
[00:21:45] We don't really know. We don't know because nobody's done any lab testing on it. There's no control group studies around it. We don't really know, but for me, given the choice of drinking a GMO lab, cultured yeast, [00:22:00] wine, or something, that's from nature. I'll take the nature. Right. And then number three. Is that natural wines are added to free and don't contain these 76 additives or any of the chemicals used in farming.
[00:22:12] Now that's what makes up a natural wine and the difference between conventional wines now, dry farm wines. My company has additional criteria of purity and health over and above just being not. So one of those is lower alcohol. We don't accept any wines over 12 and a half percent alcohol. Most of the wines I drink are between nine and 11%, but I just prefer low.
[00:22:38] I just prefer extra low alcohol wines. So Number two, like our name, dry farm wines. Our wines are never irrigated. So the vines from which the fruit grow are never irrigated. Why would you irrigate a great grapevine? It's about money. It's cheaper to irrigate. It results in higher yields, bigger clusters and fruit fruit that [00:23:00] weighs more.
[00:23:01] Might not surprise you when you feel a great Berry will water. It weighs more. Well, fruit is sold by the time. So irrigation simply about profitable. And about ease of farming. It's a lot easier to farm an irrigated grapevine because you don't have to have the soil preparations and the attention to retention the moisture that you do in an unirrigated.
[00:23:21] A great by the fact of the matter is irrigation leads to lower quality fruit. It's bad for the planet. We're in a drought. It's bad for the vine produces lower quality fruit. So we don't allow irrigation. We also do lab testing for sure. We require that all of our wines are sugar-free and and then we also test for sulfur.
[00:23:47] So we required that all around wines are low in sulfites. Now let me just wrap up the, this part of the wine explanation on sulfites. Sulfites are [00:24:00] naturally occurring in all fermented. Sulfites are naturally occurring in many other food types. And most people don't have a sulfite allergy. So they have a sulfite allergy.
[00:24:11] They're probably have an epi pen in their pocket. Right now there's some questions to whether excess or high sulfites can affect the way some people feel. Some people claim that they can, but for most people. For most people who are drinking wine on a regular basis and experiencing difficulty in this, I know you'll know this in your practice.
[00:24:37] Many women, particularly women, many women say I can't, I love red wine, but I can't.
[00:24:45] Julie Michelson: Yeah.
[00:24:46] Todd White: And I have, I only drink white wine. And the experience is that most of them are having are an adverse effect to biogenetic, amines, Tyra mean and [00:25:00] histamine. So these Y ptarmigan and histamine are elevated in conventional wines.
[00:25:04] They are because of the way they're made. And in 30 minutes we can't cover all
[00:25:09] Julie Michelson: No.
[00:25:10] Todd White: but, but. When we were doing health events is I told you in 2019, before we came on, we did 140 we, the official wine for 142 international health events. And like the one that we just saw you at again for JJ Virgin
[00:25:30] Julie Michelson: Yup.
[00:25:31] Todd White: and.
[00:25:33] And I'm, I've met hundreds and hundreds, thousands of women over the years who say, I love red wine. Can't drink. I was like, well, I can solve that for you. So just drink this red wine tonight. You'll feel great in the morning. If you don't let me know. No, they're always come in. Oh my gosh. You're right.
[00:25:47] You're right. Wine had no negative effect on me the way that conventional wines do. And it's because of how they're made and their lack of additives and lower alcohol has a huge impact as well. So [00:26:00] anyway, that's, that's. That's sort of a little 1 0 1, but very basic kind of differences in what's happening and why.
[00:26:09] Julie Michelson: Basic to you, you know, I'm sure many listeners, their mind just exploded. And I want to, we were discussing this before I hit record, but I actually was one of those women who couldn't drink wine at all at, at, at the. Several years before I met you. In my health journey, when I say couldn't I had gone from, I can't drink red wine to because I too was in the biohacking world.
[00:26:39] Even when I was able to find a wine, I, that I didn't think bothered me because I track my sleep and I, you know, I'm watching everything all the time. I, I, so I felt, I thought it felt okay, but I would see like, oh my gosh, it's affecting my heart rate variability. It's, you know, it was [00:27:00] affecting all these things in my sleep.
[00:27:01] So I just literally. Stopped drinking all wine for several years. And I too, I, I was never a big drinker, but I did. I grew up in the Northeast and the restaurant business. So I enjoy flavors and enjoyed wine. And when I met you at that Bulletproof conference, literally. I just said this to you. When I saw you a couple a month ago, I know it.
[00:27:28] You gave me wine back. I mean, literally I went from not drinking ever, ever, ever to, you know, reliably. And I wasn't kidding. When I say I traveled with it in my suitcase. If I'm going somewhere and I'm going to want to enjoy wine, I bring it with me. Because it's not, it's just not even worth the gamble to me.
[00:27:47] I know reliably when I drink.
[00:27:50] Todd White: I can't drink
[00:27:51] Julie Michelson: Yeah. And so for so long, I was one of those women, you know, it's the sulfites, it's the sulfites. And then as [00:28:00] I too was into biohacking and keto and it was the sugar, I wasn't going to drink wine, you know, knock myself out of ketosis and create inflammation. And so when I.
[00:28:12] Ran into you. That's why I was so excited to say, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And you mentioned how many conferences you guys did in 2019. And, and I had been at some of those international health conferences in 2019. And, and to me that's always the, like, I know if you guys are there, if dry farm wine is there, that's my conference.
[00:28:32] Like I know that's where I want to be. And it, it really is remarkable. So I was confessing to you. I kind of kept it as a secret, although. Posted and said, it certainly wasn't a dirty secret at all. But as a health coach, I'm often taking all alcohol away. As we talked about it, it is a toxin for a period of time.
[00:28:52] And I even have diabetic clients that I'm like, give them the link like here, you know,
[00:28:58] Todd White: Yeah, for sure. There's a [00:29:00] lot of diabetics that drink our wine
[00:29:01] Julie Michelson: Yeah. It is.
[00:29:02] Todd White: has no impact on blood glucose.
[00:29:04] Julie Michelson: Yeah, it's amazing. It is amazing. But I thought I knew a lot about your wine and the, and the differences and, and I learned so much even in what you call your basic explanation of cause I've had people say that all the time, you can drink this wine.
[00:29:23] It's organic. And I'm like, no, thanks. But I'm good. I'll just stick with my Pellegrino and my glass of wine. When I get home, if I want my. So yeah, I just am so grateful that, that, and that is how the best businesses I think, are created as you solve the need for yourself and realize that many, many other people share that same desire to.
[00:29:51] You know, be as healthy as we can. And when you were talking about the GML you something get, well, why would I drink something with GMO ingredients when [00:30:00] I don't eat anything with GMO ingredients? Like why, you know, it's not different. So it, it,
[00:30:06] Todd White: with wine is you don't, you don't get to choose the knowledge.
[00:30:10] Julie Michelson: what's in there.
[00:30:11] Todd White: You don't know what's in there, right? And so you don't, you don't, you don't have the opportunity. This is our problem with the whole thing. If you want to drink Dom method, that carbonate, which is a very toxic additive to wine.
[00:30:22] If you want to drink down method by carbon. Okay. Or if you want to drink glyphosate. Okay. But I think you should know what's in the wine, right? I think you should have that choice just like every time I pick up any other kinds of packaged food, right. If it's not raw, it's packaged. And so anytime I pick up any, any kind of packaged food, I'm going to be looking to see what's in it and how much sugar is in it.
[00:30:46] Right. And so, because sugar hides in everything virtually, including wine. And, you know, and I'm rabidly anti sugar. And so and I live a sugar-free lifestyle, [00:31:00] largely accepting two or three or four times a year. Right. But super rare. I go to great lengths to avoid sugar and I certainly don't want to drink it. And so.
[00:31:12] Julie Michelson: yeah, it's it's and that, that was my, you know, I think a wine could check everything else on that list, but not be sugar-free and it would make me feel terrible because I
[00:31:26] Todd White: sure. I don't. Sugar is horrible.
[00:31:28] Julie Michelson: yeah, I.
[00:31:29] Todd White: the most widely abused, most addictive drug on the planet.
[00:31:34] Julie Michelson: Well, it is, but, but until you've lived without it for a long time, you don't re even, I don't think it's possible to realize what it's really doing to you. You know, now I know in a heartbeat
[00:31:44] Todd White: can feel it. If
[00:31:45] Julie Michelson: oh yeah.
[00:31:47] Todd White: wine only way it see you can't always taste sugar and wine because, because the asset level, you, you, you. Now if it's a dessert wine or, you know, some sweet Brandy or port, or you [00:32:00] can taste sugar and it's sweet, right. But I'm talking about like standard wines that contain, you know, five grams, a liter, or, you know, six, eight grams, the leader, you can't tell you, you, you, you can't taste that sugar.
[00:32:13] I can feel it,
[00:32:15] Julie Michelson: Right.
[00:32:16] Todd White: is why we do lab testing, right? Because the only way to know if a wine has sugar free is the laptop. And we're testing for both groups, glucose, and fructose. So the only way to know with certainty that wine is sugar free is the lab tests. Sometimes even in its taste measures, we can't taste it sometimes because natural wines are not always sugar free.
[00:32:35] This is the thing. That's the criteria we have. Natural wines are not always sugar-free natural wines are not always low. Alcohol, natural wines are not always irrigation free. Right? These are just criteria we have. And so. Natural wines are always low and sulfites. That's sort of a cornerstone because they don't use the attitude, but that, that being [00:33:00] said, that's, it's the only way to know most of these things is to laptop.
[00:33:07] Julie Michelson: Which is why, as you said before, no, one's really doing what you guys are doing.
[00:33:13] Todd White: We're the only people do lab testing. One, one it's difficult. It's expensive. It's it's a hassle, right? So fortunately we have a system for it. So, you know, we collect these samples all over the world and then we send them to our lab for testing, which is an independent certified analogist who works primarily for the wine industry in Napa.
[00:33:33] They just do a thing for us. Right. But that's unique to what we're doing, but they're really a laboratory that's set up to do standard wine testing on the behalf of wine makers in the Napa valley. We fortunately we live here. That's probably another reason that no one else has done it. You'd have to have access to, to an analogy lab, unless you lived in an area where they [00:34:00] exist, you wouldn't have access, I guess you could maybe mail it or something, but you know, be a big hassle.
[00:34:05] So yeah. So just one of the things that continues to be unique about our product.
[00:34:11] Julie Michelson: Is there any wine, any domestic wine that meets your criteria?
[00:34:18] Todd White: There's not, we don't sell domestic wine. I'll drink domestic wine. Although I live in the most famous wine Appalachian in north America, I don't drink the wine from here or any domestic wine. They just don't fit our criteria for a number of reasons. Primary reason is irrigation. That's where it begins over 99% of us 10 years or.
[00:34:39] So there's virtually no dry farming. Number two if they do dry farm then usually because the wine making styles, alcohol levels are too high. And then number three if you were to get past those two things, And organic farming, then the price would be too high. So our wines are priced at a very, [00:35:00] very reasonable play.
[00:35:01] All of our wines are $25 a bottle. So they all sell for the same price. Now, clearly we pay a little more, a little less for some or the other, but we sell them all for the same price and make it super simple to understand. And there are no domestic wines. That would meet dry farming, organic and low alcohol that are retail at $25 a bottle because the cost of land here is so high.
[00:35:27] And so most of these small family farms that we work with about 800 of them, there are five growers in South Africa. We have 10 and south America and the other 780 or so are spread across Europe. And most of them. Or just very small family farms. Everybody in the family works on the farm. It's usually multi-generational.
[00:35:50] So they've owned the land for two or three generations and. You know it, and you can't sell natural wines for a lot of money because nobody knows what they [00:36:00] are. Right. So if you were to send them to a shelf, they would just sit there and nobody would bother them because Americans, Bob brands, something they've seen in a magazine, or they heard a friend likes, or, you know, or these rating systems, natural wines are not rated.
[00:36:16] Right. And so it's this. They're reasonably priced because cost of land that their own, his property already paid for, they don't have any big cost structures. They don't make wine in large volume, which is why we have to buy wine from so many different farms because he can't produce natural wine because the native yeast, the fragility of native yeast doesn't allow you the opportunity to grow or to ferment natural wines, very high volume.
[00:36:45] So. Yeah. So this is kind of a, it's kind of a thing. Right. And when you drink it, you'll care more about it because it tastes great and it makes you feel great. And so you'll just be like, oh wow, this is really different.
[00:36:59] Julie Michelson: It [00:37:00] really, it, it, I cannot express the difference. And hearing everything that goes into your curation process. I mean, it's. Again, as you said, if I were to try to find these lines on my own, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't possibly which is why I was so excited when I saw you last month to thank you because I just, you know, I, I was laughing.
[00:37:29] I tomorrow I just got the email tomorrow. My Thanksgiving lines are.
[00:37:34] Todd White: Oh, nice.
[00:37:34] Julie Michelson: Showing up because I checked and I was like, oh, you know often I don't even always
[00:37:42] Todd White: But where do you live?
[00:37:43] Julie Michelson: I live in Colorado.
[00:37:44] Todd White: Okay. All right. Well, your wines get to pretty quickly from
[00:37:47] Julie Michelson: Oh, they do. They do thank goodness because sometimes I'm like, oh no,
[00:37:53] Todd White: Yeah, I hear you.
[00:37:54] Julie Michelson: It depends. It depends on how much I, I, if I share my dry farm [00:38:00] wine with someone, it's like, they should know that I really, really love them because otherwise I'm like, you bring what you want to drink and I'll drink mine.
[00:38:09] So.
[00:38:09] Todd White: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:38:10] Julie Michelson: I love it. Well, I, I have so much more. I want to ask you because we didn't even get to touch on our shared love of all things, biohacking and health and wellness.
[00:38:23] Todd White: Let's do it again.
[00:38:24] Julie Michelson: I would love to have you back because when I saw you last month, I was commenting again. Before we started, your team is incredible. The, the, the members of your team that I got to meet last month are.
[00:38:39] Remarkable human beings. And I know because I have watched you grow your company that that's not accidental, that, that, you know, the care you take for yourself, you take for your company, you take for your team. And so I would love to have you come back and we can talk about all of those wonderful things, because it does go beyond [00:39:00] wine
[00:39:01] Todd White: Oh, it's way beyond the line. We meditated every day together. We're all, bio-hackers, you know, I'm on a, I'm on a five day water fast right now, as we speak, you know, I only eat once a day. Otherwise
[00:39:13] Julie Michelson: I know, I
[00:39:14] Todd White: just have like, you know, a whole lot to talk about outside of wine, but really about biohacking and meditation and living an intentional life.
[00:39:21] And you know, there's there's and running an intentional culture with intentional people. You know, there's some kind of, there's lots of talk about if you care about those things.
[00:39:31] Julie Michelson: There there is. And it, I think would, you know, for the people saying, gosh, why, you know, why is Julie having somebody talk about wine on the podcast? Because it, it is, it's all interconnected. And it's, it's about treating, you know, our bodies, ourselves, our community, our planets, all with that same value and respect.
[00:39:51] And you have cultivated that on a level in your company that is truly remarkable.
[00:39:57] Todd White: I appreciate you saying that we were [00:40:00] just talking about it this morning. Actually. We're just, our hiring process takes two months
[00:40:05] Julie Michelson: I would imagine
[00:40:06] Todd White: just crazy. So, you know, we were just talking about, gosh, seems to slow us down in some ways we're like, no, we can't change
[00:40:13] Julie Michelson: don't change
[00:40:14] Todd White: companies like hire people after two interviews and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:40:18] It's like, you know, we just can't do it. We're just like super. Conscious of who we bring into our world, you know, and, and making sure that they share our values, you know, understand who we are. And we're not for everybody. I mean, so it's, you know, we have to find this, that right person who appreciates the way we live and
[00:40:40] Julie Michelson: it, it, it shows and so I would, I'd be honored to have you back and yeah, I want to get into why, you know, why do you fast 22 hours a day when you're not doing a water fast and all those good things, because that's what gets me almost
[00:40:56] Todd White: you all about
[00:40:57] Julie Michelson: as having wine back in my [00:41:00] life. That that treats my body well.
[00:41:02] Todd White: nice. Well, it's great to see you. Thanks for having me on.
[00:41:06] Julie Michelson: It is my pleasure. Before we wrap up, where can listeners find you? I will have all kinds of links for them in the show notes, but if they're super intrigued and they want to know more about you,
[00:41:16] Todd White: um, For all social were dry farm wines. We do have a special offer for your audience today that they can find a penny bottle. On their first order, just by going into dryfarmwines.com/jmcoach that's dry farm wines.com J M coach. So you can find a penny bottle of wine there.
[00:41:42] And but on all social we're dry farm wines were everywhere. So.
[00:41:47] Julie Michelson: Wonderful. Everybody. I cannot encourage you enough to, to check them out. Todd, thank you so much for joining us. You have just totally. I you've blown my mind and I thought I [00:42:00] knew all the things we were going to talk about. So real gold in this episode, I appreciate it. Yes for everyone listening.
[00:42:11] Remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
[00:00:58] Todd educates us on the [00:01:00] present state of the wine industry. What is likely to be hidden in the wine you're drinking and the uniquely high standards that dry farm wines uses in their curating and lab testing process.
[00:01:13] Once you listen to this conversation, you'll understand why I get so excited about how dry farm wines has given me the gift of being able to enjoy delicious wine while taking the best care of my health.
[00:01:26] Todd welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:30] Todd White: I'm excited to be here. We have lots to talk about.
[00:01:33] Julie Michelson: We do. I'm going to try to really behave myself because I have so much, I want to ask you. I want to start with, I am so familiar with your company and I've watched it grow exponentially over the past while I've been watching it for five years. But I have no idea how you. Came to be the founder of this incredible [00:02:00] dry farm wines.
[00:02:00] What brought you into this space? How did this happen? It's such a unique thing.
[00:02:07] Todd White: Yeah, it was, it, it didn't start off as a business. I wasn't even thinking of it as a business. I was trying to find a healthier way to drink wine. And so. You know, I've been a lifelong wine affection auto I've drank alcohol for most of my adult life. Even had a tenuous relationship with drinking for probably 10 or 15 or 20 years when I was young used to play pretty hard.
[00:02:31] And then for the last 25 years, I've only drank wine. And. I have become a star. I've been a biohacker for probably before biohacking was biohacking. And I've always been experimenting with fitness and diet regiments, and various biohacking diets are probably the most common biohackers diet. And. You know, I've found for me that that generally low [00:03:00] carb dieting and low carb nutritional programming was the best to achieve my goals.
[00:03:06] And I've been experimenting with the ketogenic diets since the Atkins diet came out in the 1980s. And. So, but became really quite serious. Biohacker seven or eight years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And, and the ketogenic diet seven years ago started to bubble up on the French of the biohacking community.
[00:03:30] It was not in any way to mainstream down until probably like two or three years ago, but at the time, because the work of the dominant diag is Stino. The ketogenic diet started to get some biohacking attention and performance channels. So I started a therapeutic ketogenic diet, which is very different than the diet I'm on today.
[00:03:53] Today I'm on today. I will call modified ketogenic diet, which is more like Atkins at the time. The therapeutic [00:04:00] ketogenic diet is like 80% fat, right? Very low carbohydrate and very low protein. It's mainly fat. And it was extraordinary, but it's not really sustainable over a long period of time. For me, it's not, not interesting enough, but so anyway, I was, had become ketogenic and about the same time.
[00:04:21] And I don't know if it's because of keto though. Reported side effect that some people have lower alcohol tolerances once they become keto. I don't know because there were so many other how was aging and, you know, there was so many co-factors that I was in a more stressful period in my life. I, you know, there were so many co-factors, I don't know.
[00:04:42] I just found that I wasn't enjoying drinking anymore. And I thought it was the high alcohol and wines. Cause wines had been creeping up in alcohol over the last 30 years. And they're the highest they've ever been in the wine industry loves alcohol because it's addictive and it's a domino drug. And when I say a [00:05:00] domino drug the more you drink, the more you are likely to drink, right?
[00:05:04] So the higher, the alcohol, the slippery that slope becomes. So I considered not stopped drinking for a little while and I didn't want to do that. And so so I started looking around for lower alcohol wines. This is how the speeding. Because it surprises people to hear me say this, but alcohol is a dangerous neurotoxin and it really ruins millions of lives every year.
[00:05:30] And some people just shouldn't drink at all. Right. And unless we really think carefully about drinking, most of us should drink unless we're thinking about drinking carefully. Right. And so. And that's what I help people think through is educate them to think about how they drink and what they're drinking.
[00:05:50] Right. And so, because I, I don't think I love wine. I don't love alcohol, which is, which is why. You [00:06:00] know, which is why I started looking for lower alcohol wines. I thought I just was having an intolerance to alcohol and needed to drink class, but I don't want to drink less. I just wanted to drink lower alcohol.
[00:06:10] So I could still drink the same amount in terms of volume, but not have the same effect. So anyway, that's how that happened. And then along that way, accidentally discovered the natural wine revolution, which was just beginning in central France. I met a parade. I met an American who lives in Paris and imports natural wines to the United States.
[00:06:34] I met him completely by accident when I was searching for low alcohol wines. And, and, and from that, I was like, I discovered this one specific guy with a palette that I like with these natural wines. I'd never heard of a natural wine. And so it's very confusing to consumers because you say, oh, I'm in the natural wine business.
[00:06:56] They're like, aren't all wines natural. And they're not for [00:07:00] reasons that we're going to discuss, but, but, so that was it. And I discovered natural wines. And then I had made, I live in Napa. I had made some wine back in 2005, a hobby project. And so I knew a little about, about, Knology and lab testing wines.
[00:07:17] So I took these natural wines and I started lab testing and quantifying them for specific attributes around health and purity and taste that I liked. And so. I started buying these wines and kind of select, I'm still not thinking of it as a business, but I started sharing these wines with friends demand who were also athletes and performance biohackers, and they're always wine tastes great.
[00:07:42] And I don't give me a hangover from it and I feel better. And so where can you get these now? Like where you can't
[00:07:48] Julie Michelson: house.
[00:07:49] Todd White: And so, yeah, you can't get the, first of all, they're impossible to find at the time. And second of all, if you, you know, if you want the quantification that that [00:08:00] ad selected, you can't go out and find those.
[00:08:03] Right. So at that point I started thinking about a business and I, the very first kind of. Entree into the health world. We became the official wine of Dave Asprey and Bulletproof and the Bulletproof labs.
[00:08:21] Julie Michelson: Which is how I met you.
[00:08:22] Todd White: Right. And Dave doesn't drink and Dave Asprey doesn't drink and had never endorsed an alcohol product of any kind before.
[00:08:33] And then we became the official wine of Bulletproof. And so that's kind of where it started. And then from there. I started doing podcasts. The first podcast I did was Bulletproof radio with Dave Asprey and then mark systems, primal primal blueprint. And now I've done hundreds of podcasts, educating people about what's wrong with conventional wines and why they should think about their drinking and why they should be drinking [00:09:00] lower alcohol or.
[00:09:01] Right. So, so that that's sort of how it began and then it just, just sort of exploded from there because you do feel better. It's better for you. It's better for the planet and all kinds of reasons why you should drink these wines. Right. And then the main thing I think that people love about them is that they taste better and you feel better and, and that tastes difference.
[00:09:25] And the feeling that you have. During drinking and afterwards is quite notable. And for regular wine drinkers, they notice a very meaningful difference. And so, and even today it remains, we're the only company in the world to do lab testing and to make these promises right. And two, we have some copycat,
[00:09:49] Julie Michelson: I was going to say, I've
[00:09:50] Todd White: have some copycat competitors, but they don't do what we do.
[00:09:53] Julie Michelson: things. Yeah.
[00:09:55] Todd White: I mean, because of our success naturally, we've had lookalikes, [00:10:00] who've tried. Imitate us, but they don't, none of them do lab testing and none of them, none of them have the stringent criteria that we have all day. They just talk, marketing, speak, you know, but they're not really committed to what we do.
[00:10:14] So it's shocking that somebody hasn't just copied us in totality, but they haven't, you know, they were, we still remain, you still remain the only company that does what we do.
[00:10:25] Julie Michelson: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Todd White: So that's how it got started. I think, let me list when we talk about wine and what's wrong with it, let me start at the beginning about why this has happened.
[00:10:38] And it's, it's an old fashion American idea called money and greed. Right? And so what's happened in the wine industry is the same thing that's happened in our foods. So in our food supply, basically it's the massive corporate consolidation. Whereabouts 10 companies control most of all the food that flows across the country in one way or another.
[00:10:59] Julie Michelson: Yeah.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Todd White: And so in the wine industry over the last 30 or 40 years, you've had massive corporate consolidation fueled by wall street money. And so public money and greed and a collusion with the government, which we'll talk about. And so the Wyman industry has been in bed with the government for a long time. But when we talk them, it's consolidation three giant wine conglomerates manufacturer, 52% of the wine drank in the U S but when you go in the grocery store and you see big shelves and lines of wine and hundreds or thousands of different brands and labels, most of those wines are made by a handful of times.
[00:11:41] The top 30 companies in the U S make over 70% of us wine. So now they don't want you to know that. So they hide behind thousands of brands and labels. And labels that have cute farmhouses on the front of the murder Chateau. They want to tell you the [00:12:00] story that you're drinking from a place. Well, that place is usually massive wine factories located in the central valley of California.
[00:12:08] And then they put all these pretty labels on them. Maybe they have an animal on it. Maybe it has a farmhouse. This is just wine is sold. Wine is basically sold through two methods. The label, what it looks like. Or in conjunction with who makes it right? So a brand name, a label or rating, and the rating systems are all fouled up and politically charged to advertising and so on and so forth.
[00:12:38] So wine companies today, In this consolidated fashion, chasing money or not trying to make wine better or healthier, autonomy get cheaper and faster. And so that leads to industrial farming practices. And then that leads to industrial [00:13:00] winemaking practices, which contain additives. Now here's the dirty, dark secret of the winders.
[00:13:07] There's 76 additives approved by the FDA for the use of wine-making. Now everything I'm going to tell you, industry stats, I've already told you 76 additives, which you can Google search 76 FDA approved wine additives. The list will come right up. Everything I'm going to tell you is easily verifiable from a Google search.
[00:13:26] It's just the wine industry's managed somehow to I came along and told a few million, few million people. The wine industry has managed to keep this a secret. And even people, I live in the heart of the Napa valley, even people who live here, even people in the wine industry don't know anything about the attitudes.
[00:13:45] It's just not talked about ever. Right. And so now of the 76 approved additives by the FDA, some of them are natural. And some of them are quite toxic. The problem with this, [00:14:00] the problem, and some are animal products. So if you're a vegan or, or you care about animal rights, there are animal products being used in all of our wines are vegan and animal product free, but there are animal products used in the wine making process.
[00:14:16] Then these products are approved by the FDA. So this, the problem here is there's no transparent. So wine is the only major food product without a contents label on it and no nutritional information, but forget about the nutritional information. It doesn't even have a contents. It's what you want. Now, this is not an accident reason.
[00:14:40] It doesn't have a contents label on this because the wine industry spent millions dollars in lobby money over the years to keep labeling off of wine, because they don't want to disclose what's in it. They want you to believe it's just from integration. And usually that's just not true. And so so this is, this is [00:15:00] part of the collusion between the wine industry and the government is to keep there's a number of collusions, including the three tier distribution system, which protects distributors and wholesalers on the state by state cases.
[00:15:11] And then the third is alcohol stated on a wine bottle, which is why we do lab testing for alcohol. Alcohol stated on the wine bottle is not required by law to be active. And so even though it says 14% by law, it could be 15 and a half percent and still be believe.
[00:15:29] Julie Michelson: Well,
[00:15:30] Todd White: And because I care about alcohol and I think everybody should care about alcohol because alcohol.
[00:15:37] Is a toxin. And if you care about your body, then you want to be careful about how you're utilizing toxins. Right? And so now that being said, we also know that moderate amounts of alcohol can be healthy. And there are a number of studies showing very positive neurological and biological [00:16:00] outcomes for heart disease.
[00:16:01] And then also for neurological function where moderate alcohol use is. Shown to be helpful, but the problem is when we get away from moderate into something that's destructive, then it's no longer helpful. And so I think if you're going to drink, you need to think about, you need to know what you're drinking.
[00:16:20] They know what's in it because I care about what I put in my body. So you need to know what's in it. And then think about what the alcohol content is, so that you can drink in a healthier way. And so whether you buy wine from us or not, I think you should be drinking natural wine. Not that you should be drinking lower alcohol.
[00:16:38] So before we take a break here on kind of my piece, let's talk about what a natural wine is and how that differs from conventional wine, because natural wine, while it's a confusing term to people don't know what it is. Natural wine is a very specific type of. We're the largest [00:17:00] buyer and of natural wines for world.
[00:17:02] And it's a very small category, only less than one 10th of 1% of the wines in the world are natural. The restaurant conventional. So you go to the grocery store, you're not looking at any natural wine. There is no natural wine there. Even if you see an organic wine, that doesn't mean it's natural. And this is also quite confusing because all natural wines are always organic, but not all organic wines are not.
[00:17:26] So that becomes further confusing. Right. So
[00:17:30] Julie Michelson: Then you end up traveling like I do with wine in your suitcase.
[00:17:33] Todd White: right, right. Well, I traveled with my own wine for sure.
[00:17:37] Julie Michelson: I traveled with your wine as well.
[00:17:40] Todd White: nice, nice. So here's the deal? Here's what makes a natural wine. There are only three attributes that are, that that determine what natural wine. Number one natural wines are always organically or biodynamically farmed. That's chemical free [00:18:00] farming and biodynamic farming.
[00:18:01] Isn't advanced prescriptive. Of organic farming. So all by bowel biodynamic farming is always organic. So it's either organic or biodynamically farm. Number two, this one's a little bit more confusing. Number two, natural wines are always fermented with wild indigenous native yeast. Conventional wines are fermented with the GMO lab culture yeast.
[00:18:32] Now, what does that mean? And why do they do. On the skin of every great Berry at the time of harvest whether it's no matter how it's farmed, no matter what, how it's going to be fermented every great Berry in the world at the time of harvest has a white waxy film on the outside of the Berry. You can scrape it off with your finger.
[00:18:53] Now that is yeast. That yeast is collected naturally through the air [00:19:00] indigenous to the vineyard where the fruit is. It is that yeast, that natural wine growers use to ferment the wine. And what's called a spontaneous fermentation. Why is it called spontaneous? Because the only thing required to make a wine is, is sugar filled, grape juice and yeast.
[00:19:24] You put yeast into sugar, filled grapes. And at the right temperature, when the yeast activates you'll start fermenting wine. That's the reason it's called spontaneous because you don't need to add anything. Everything you need to make wine is on the grapes and the grapes and on the grapes.
[00:19:41] Julie Michelson: Well,
[00:19:42] Todd White: Now convention now.
[00:19:45] Conventional winemakers do not use this cheese for fermentation for several reasons. One it's pretty fragile and it's difficult to work with, and it requires a lot of coddling and attention. And you can't make [00:20:00] wine in very large volumes using this native yeast. It's too unstable. So the first thing the conventional wine maker does is that they press the juice from the berries, goes into a 10.
[00:20:13] And then they pour software dioxide into the wine, into the grape juice and they kill the native yeast. Sulfur dioxide kills yeast. So they kill the native yeast and then they inoculate it with this GMO lab culture. And the reason they do that is because the yeast is very sturdy. It's been modified to be very strong.
[00:20:40] It also will, would high withstand a higher alcohol environment and you can buy these yeast and flavor profiles. So let's say that you have this industrial farm grape in central California. You want it to taste like it's from, from Italy, they have a yeast for that. So you can buy these yeast to enhance flavor [00:21:00] profiles.
[00:21:00] Now. I'll tell you how you closely relate to understanding that that's true and why that makes sense. As you know, during the pandemic, we had a lot of. People baking sourdough bread, right? The sourdough bread craft movement kind of exploded during the pandemic. And everybody was eager to get somebody else's mother yeast, because you know, it had this better flavor.
[00:21:25] It was more complex. So the yeast imparts a flavor, complexity to whatever you choose to from it. And the source of the yeast depends on the complexity of the flavor. It was no different making wine. It's just these modified. Are modified to have certain flavor types. Now, what does that mean for our help?
[00:21:45] We don't really know. We don't know because nobody's done any lab testing on it. There's no control group studies around it. We don't really know, but for me, given the choice of drinking a GMO lab, cultured yeast, [00:22:00] wine, or something, that's from nature. I'll take the nature. Right. And then number three. Is that natural wines are added to free and don't contain these 76 additives or any of the chemicals used in farming.
[00:22:12] Now that's what makes up a natural wine and the difference between conventional wines now, dry farm wines. My company has additional criteria of purity and health over and above just being not. So one of those is lower alcohol. We don't accept any wines over 12 and a half percent alcohol. Most of the wines I drink are between nine and 11%, but I just prefer low.
[00:22:38] I just prefer extra low alcohol wines. So Number two, like our name, dry farm wines. Our wines are never irrigated. So the vines from which the fruit grow are never irrigated. Why would you irrigate a great grapevine? It's about money. It's cheaper to irrigate. It results in higher yields, bigger clusters and fruit fruit that [00:23:00] weighs more.
[00:23:01] Might not surprise you when you feel a great Berry will water. It weighs more. Well, fruit is sold by the time. So irrigation simply about profitable. And about ease of farming. It's a lot easier to farm an irrigated grapevine because you don't have to have the soil preparations and the attention to retention the moisture that you do in an unirrigated.
[00:23:21] A great by the fact of the matter is irrigation leads to lower quality fruit. It's bad for the planet. We're in a drought. It's bad for the vine produces lower quality fruit. So we don't allow irrigation. We also do lab testing for sure. We require that all of our wines are sugar-free and and then we also test for sulfur.
[00:23:47] So we required that all around wines are low in sulfites. Now let me just wrap up the, this part of the wine explanation on sulfites. Sulfites are [00:24:00] naturally occurring in all fermented. Sulfites are naturally occurring in many other food types. And most people don't have a sulfite allergy. So they have a sulfite allergy.
[00:24:11] They're probably have an epi pen in their pocket. Right now there's some questions to whether excess or high sulfites can affect the way some people feel. Some people claim that they can, but for most people. For most people who are drinking wine on a regular basis and experiencing difficulty in this, I know you'll know this in your practice.
[00:24:37] Many women, particularly women, many women say I can't, I love red wine, but I can't.
[00:24:45] Julie Michelson: Yeah.
[00:24:46] Todd White: And I have, I only drink white wine. And the experience is that most of them are having are an adverse effect to biogenetic, amines, Tyra mean and [00:25:00] histamine. So these Y ptarmigan and histamine are elevated in conventional wines.
[00:25:04] They are because of the way they're made. And in 30 minutes we can't cover all
[00:25:09] Julie Michelson: No.
[00:25:10] Todd White: but, but. When we were doing health events is I told you in 2019, before we came on, we did 140 we, the official wine for 142 international health events. And like the one that we just saw you at again for JJ Virgin
[00:25:30] Julie Michelson: Yup.
[00:25:31] Todd White: and.
[00:25:33] And I'm, I've met hundreds and hundreds, thousands of women over the years who say, I love red wine. Can't drink. I was like, well, I can solve that for you. So just drink this red wine tonight. You'll feel great in the morning. If you don't let me know. No, they're always come in. Oh my gosh. You're right.
[00:25:47] You're right. Wine had no negative effect on me the way that conventional wines do. And it's because of how they're made and their lack of additives and lower alcohol has a huge impact as well. So [00:26:00] anyway, that's, that's. That's sort of a little 1 0 1, but very basic kind of differences in what's happening and why.
[00:26:09] Julie Michelson: Basic to you, you know, I'm sure many listeners, their mind just exploded. And I want to, we were discussing this before I hit record, but I actually was one of those women who couldn't drink wine at all at, at, at the. Several years before I met you. In my health journey, when I say couldn't I had gone from, I can't drink red wine to because I too was in the biohacking world.
[00:26:39] Even when I was able to find a wine, I, that I didn't think bothered me because I track my sleep and I, you know, I'm watching everything all the time. I, I, so I felt, I thought it felt okay, but I would see like, oh my gosh, it's affecting my heart rate variability. It's, you know, it was [00:27:00] affecting all these things in my sleep.
[00:27:01] So I just literally. Stopped drinking all wine for several years. And I too, I, I was never a big drinker, but I did. I grew up in the Northeast and the restaurant business. So I enjoy flavors and enjoyed wine. And when I met you at that Bulletproof conference, literally. I just said this to you. When I saw you a couple a month ago, I know it.
[00:27:28] You gave me wine back. I mean, literally I went from not drinking ever, ever, ever to, you know, reliably. And I wasn't kidding. When I say I traveled with it in my suitcase. If I'm going somewhere and I'm going to want to enjoy wine, I bring it with me. Because it's not, it's just not even worth the gamble to me.
[00:27:47] I know reliably when I drink.
[00:27:50] Todd White: I can't drink
[00:27:51] Julie Michelson: Yeah. And so for so long, I was one of those women, you know, it's the sulfites, it's the sulfites. And then as [00:28:00] I too was into biohacking and keto and it was the sugar, I wasn't going to drink wine, you know, knock myself out of ketosis and create inflammation. And so when I.
[00:28:12] Ran into you. That's why I was so excited to say, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And you mentioned how many conferences you guys did in 2019. And, and I had been at some of those international health conferences in 2019. And, and to me that's always the, like, I know if you guys are there, if dry farm wine is there, that's my conference.
[00:28:32] Like I know that's where I want to be. And it, it really is remarkable. So I was confessing to you. I kind of kept it as a secret, although. Posted and said, it certainly wasn't a dirty secret at all. But as a health coach, I'm often taking all alcohol away. As we talked about it, it is a toxin for a period of time.
[00:28:52] And I even have diabetic clients that I'm like, give them the link like here, you know,
[00:28:58] Todd White: Yeah, for sure. There's a [00:29:00] lot of diabetics that drink our wine
[00:29:01] Julie Michelson: Yeah. It is.
[00:29:02] Todd White: has no impact on blood glucose.
[00:29:04] Julie Michelson: Yeah, it's amazing. It is amazing. But I thought I knew a lot about your wine and the, and the differences and, and I learned so much even in what you call your basic explanation of cause I've had people say that all the time, you can drink this wine.
[00:29:23] It's organic. And I'm like, no, thanks. But I'm good. I'll just stick with my Pellegrino and my glass of wine. When I get home, if I want my. So yeah, I just am so grateful that, that, and that is how the best businesses I think, are created as you solve the need for yourself and realize that many, many other people share that same desire to.
[00:29:51] You know, be as healthy as we can. And when you were talking about the GML you something get, well, why would I drink something with GMO ingredients when [00:30:00] I don't eat anything with GMO ingredients? Like why, you know, it's not different. So it, it,
[00:30:06] Todd White: with wine is you don't, you don't get to choose the knowledge.
[00:30:10] Julie Michelson: what's in there.
[00:30:11] Todd White: You don't know what's in there, right? And so you don't, you don't, you don't have the opportunity. This is our problem with the whole thing. If you want to drink Dom method, that carbonate, which is a very toxic additive to wine.
[00:30:22] If you want to drink down method by carbon. Okay. Or if you want to drink glyphosate. Okay. But I think you should know what's in the wine, right? I think you should have that choice just like every time I pick up any other kinds of packaged food, right. If it's not raw, it's packaged. And so anytime I pick up any, any kind of packaged food, I'm going to be looking to see what's in it and how much sugar is in it.
[00:30:46] Right. And so, because sugar hides in everything virtually, including wine. And, you know, and I'm rabidly anti sugar. And so and I live a sugar-free lifestyle, [00:31:00] largely accepting two or three or four times a year. Right. But super rare. I go to great lengths to avoid sugar and I certainly don't want to drink it. And so.
[00:31:12] Julie Michelson: yeah, it's it's and that, that was my, you know, I think a wine could check everything else on that list, but not be sugar-free and it would make me feel terrible because I
[00:31:26] Todd White: sure. I don't. Sugar is horrible.
[00:31:28] Julie Michelson: yeah, I.
[00:31:29] Todd White: the most widely abused, most addictive drug on the planet.
[00:31:34] Julie Michelson: Well, it is, but, but until you've lived without it for a long time, you don't re even, I don't think it's possible to realize what it's really doing to you. You know, now I know in a heartbeat
[00:31:44] Todd White: can feel it. If
[00:31:45] Julie Michelson: oh yeah.
[00:31:47] Todd White: wine only way it see you can't always taste sugar and wine because, because the asset level, you, you, you. Now if it's a dessert wine or, you know, some sweet Brandy or port, or you [00:32:00] can taste sugar and it's sweet, right. But I'm talking about like standard wines that contain, you know, five grams, a liter, or, you know, six, eight grams, the leader, you can't tell you, you, you, you can't taste that sugar.
[00:32:13] I can feel it,
[00:32:15] Julie Michelson: Right.
[00:32:16] Todd White: is why we do lab testing, right? Because the only way to know if a wine has sugar free is the laptop. And we're testing for both groups, glucose, and fructose. So the only way to know with certainty that wine is sugar free is the lab tests. Sometimes even in its taste measures, we can't taste it sometimes because natural wines are not always sugar free.
[00:32:35] This is the thing. That's the criteria we have. Natural wines are not always sugar-free natural wines are not always low. Alcohol, natural wines are not always irrigation free. Right? These are just criteria we have. And so. Natural wines are always low and sulfites. That's sort of a cornerstone because they don't use the attitude, but that, that being [00:33:00] said, that's, it's the only way to know most of these things is to laptop.
[00:33:07] Julie Michelson: Which is why, as you said before, no, one's really doing what you guys are doing.
[00:33:13] Todd White: We're the only people do lab testing. One, one it's difficult. It's expensive. It's it's a hassle, right? So fortunately we have a system for it. So, you know, we collect these samples all over the world and then we send them to our lab for testing, which is an independent certified analogist who works primarily for the wine industry in Napa.
[00:33:33] They just do a thing for us. Right. But that's unique to what we're doing, but they're really a laboratory that's set up to do standard wine testing on the behalf of wine makers in the Napa valley. We fortunately we live here. That's probably another reason that no one else has done it. You'd have to have access to, to an analogy lab, unless you lived in an area where they [00:34:00] exist, you wouldn't have access, I guess you could maybe mail it or something, but you know, be a big hassle.
[00:34:05] So yeah. So just one of the things that continues to be unique about our product.
[00:34:11] Julie Michelson: Is there any wine, any domestic wine that meets your criteria?
[00:34:18] Todd White: There's not, we don't sell domestic wine. I'll drink domestic wine. Although I live in the most famous wine Appalachian in north America, I don't drink the wine from here or any domestic wine. They just don't fit our criteria for a number of reasons. Primary reason is irrigation. That's where it begins over 99% of us 10 years or.
[00:34:39] So there's virtually no dry farming. Number two if they do dry farm then usually because the wine making styles, alcohol levels are too high. And then number three if you were to get past those two things, And organic farming, then the price would be too high. So our wines are priced at a very, [00:35:00] very reasonable play.
[00:35:01] All of our wines are $25 a bottle. So they all sell for the same price. Now, clearly we pay a little more, a little less for some or the other, but we sell them all for the same price and make it super simple to understand. And there are no domestic wines. That would meet dry farming, organic and low alcohol that are retail at $25 a bottle because the cost of land here is so high.
[00:35:27] And so most of these small family farms that we work with about 800 of them, there are five growers in South Africa. We have 10 and south America and the other 780 or so are spread across Europe. And most of them. Or just very small family farms. Everybody in the family works on the farm. It's usually multi-generational.
[00:35:50] So they've owned the land for two or three generations and. You know it, and you can't sell natural wines for a lot of money because nobody knows what they [00:36:00] are. Right. So if you were to send them to a shelf, they would just sit there and nobody would bother them because Americans, Bob brands, something they've seen in a magazine, or they heard a friend likes, or, you know, or these rating systems, natural wines are not rated.
[00:36:16] Right. And so it's this. They're reasonably priced because cost of land that their own, his property already paid for, they don't have any big cost structures. They don't make wine in large volume, which is why we have to buy wine from so many different farms because he can't produce natural wine because the native yeast, the fragility of native yeast doesn't allow you the opportunity to grow or to ferment natural wines, very high volume.
[00:36:45] So. Yeah. So this is kind of a, it's kind of a thing. Right. And when you drink it, you'll care more about it because it tastes great and it makes you feel great. And so you'll just be like, oh wow, this is really different.
[00:36:59] Julie Michelson: It [00:37:00] really, it, it, I cannot express the difference. And hearing everything that goes into your curation process. I mean, it's. Again, as you said, if I were to try to find these lines on my own, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't possibly which is why I was so excited when I saw you last month to thank you because I just, you know, I, I was laughing.
[00:37:29] I tomorrow I just got the email tomorrow. My Thanksgiving lines are.
[00:37:34] Todd White: Oh, nice.
[00:37:34] Julie Michelson: Showing up because I checked and I was like, oh, you know often I don't even always
[00:37:42] Todd White: But where do you live?
[00:37:43] Julie Michelson: I live in Colorado.
[00:37:44] Todd White: Okay. All right. Well, your wines get to pretty quickly from
[00:37:47] Julie Michelson: Oh, they do. They do thank goodness because sometimes I'm like, oh no,
[00:37:53] Todd White: Yeah, I hear you.
[00:37:54] Julie Michelson: It depends. It depends on how much I, I, if I share my dry farm [00:38:00] wine with someone, it's like, they should know that I really, really love them because otherwise I'm like, you bring what you want to drink and I'll drink mine.
[00:38:09] So.
[00:38:09] Todd White: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:38:10] Julie Michelson: I love it. Well, I, I have so much more. I want to ask you because we didn't even get to touch on our shared love of all things, biohacking and health and wellness.
[00:38:23] Todd White: Let's do it again.
[00:38:24] Julie Michelson: I would love to have you back because when I saw you last month, I was commenting again. Before we started, your team is incredible. The, the, the members of your team that I got to meet last month are.
[00:38:39] Remarkable human beings. And I know because I have watched you grow your company that that's not accidental, that, that, you know, the care you take for yourself, you take for your company, you take for your team. And so I would love to have you come back and we can talk about all of those wonderful things, because it does go beyond [00:39:00] wine
[00:39:01] Todd White: Oh, it's way beyond the line. We meditated every day together. We're all, bio-hackers, you know, I'm on a, I'm on a five day water fast right now, as we speak, you know, I only eat once a day. Otherwise
[00:39:13] Julie Michelson: I know, I
[00:39:14] Todd White: just have like, you know, a whole lot to talk about outside of wine, but really about biohacking and meditation and living an intentional life.
[00:39:21] And you know, there's there's and running an intentional culture with intentional people. You know, there's some kind of, there's lots of talk about if you care about those things.
[00:39:31] Julie Michelson: There there is. And it, I think would, you know, for the people saying, gosh, why, you know, why is Julie having somebody talk about wine on the podcast? Because it, it is, it's all interconnected. And it's, it's about treating, you know, our bodies, ourselves, our community, our planets, all with that same value and respect.
[00:39:51] And you have cultivated that on a level in your company that is truly remarkable.
[00:39:57] Todd White: I appreciate you saying that we were [00:40:00] just talking about it this morning. Actually. We're just, our hiring process takes two months
[00:40:05] Julie Michelson: I would imagine
[00:40:06] Todd White: just crazy. So, you know, we were just talking about, gosh, seems to slow us down in some ways we're like, no, we can't change
[00:40:13] Julie Michelson: don't change
[00:40:14] Todd White: companies like hire people after two interviews and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:40:18] It's like, you know, we just can't do it. We're just like super. Conscious of who we bring into our world, you know, and, and making sure that they share our values, you know, understand who we are. And we're not for everybody. I mean, so it's, you know, we have to find this, that right person who appreciates the way we live and
[00:40:40] Julie Michelson: it, it, it shows and so I would, I'd be honored to have you back and yeah, I want to get into why, you know, why do you fast 22 hours a day when you're not doing a water fast and all those good things, because that's what gets me almost
[00:40:56] Todd White: you all about
[00:40:57] Julie Michelson: as having wine back in my [00:41:00] life. That that treats my body well.
[00:41:02] Todd White: nice. Well, it's great to see you. Thanks for having me on.
[00:41:06] Julie Michelson: It is my pleasure. Before we wrap up, where can listeners find you? I will have all kinds of links for them in the show notes, but if they're super intrigued and they want to know more about you,
[00:41:16] Todd White: um, For all social were dry farm wines. We do have a special offer for your audience today that they can find a penny bottle. On their first order, just by going into dryfarmwines.com/jmcoach that's dry farm wines.com J M coach. So you can find a penny bottle of wine there.
[00:41:42] And but on all social we're dry farm wines were everywhere. So.
[00:41:47] Julie Michelson: Wonderful. Everybody. I cannot encourage you enough to, to check them out. Todd, thank you so much for joining us. You have just totally. I you've blown my mind and I thought I [00:42:00] knew all the things we were going to talk about. So real gold in this episode, I appreciate it. Yes for everyone listening.
[00:42:11] Remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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My Guest For This Episode
Connect with Todd White
Todd White
Founder - Dry Farm Wines
As the founder of Dry Farm Wines, a writer, speaker, and a leader in the organic/Natural Wine movement, Todd White has widely educated communities on conscious consumption.
Todd is a self described biohacker who practices daily meditation, Wim Hof breathing, cold thermogenesis, a ketogenic diet, and daily 22 hour intermittent fasting. He is also a frequent speaker on topics including meditation, and the Dry Farm Wines unique company culture. Built on a foundation of honesty and peace, Dry Farm Wines has seen remarkable growth, making it one of the fastest growing private companies in the U.S., without any debt or investors.
Todd is a self described biohacker who practices daily meditation, Wim Hof breathing, cold thermogenesis, a ketogenic diet, and daily 22 hour intermittent fasting. He is also a frequent speaker on topics including meditation, and the Dry Farm Wines unique company culture. Built on a foundation of honesty and peace, Dry Farm Wines has seen remarkable growth, making it one of the fastest growing private companies in the U.S., without any debt or investors.
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