Episode 157
Jason Earle:
Exploring the Connection Between Mold and Chemical Sensitivities
In this enlightening episode of Inspired Living with Autoimmunity, I welcome back Jason Earle, founder of GOT MOLD? and expert in indoor air quality. We dive deep into the world of mold exposure, chemical sensitivities, and the journey from hypervigilance to vigilance when dealing with environmental toxins
First Aired on: Sep 16, 2024
Episode 157
Jason Earle:
Exploring the Connection Between Mold and Chemical Sensitivities
In this enlightening episode of Inspired Living with Autoimmunity, I welcome back Jason Earle, founder of GOT MOLD? and expert in indoor air quality. We dive deep into the world of mold exposure, chemical sensitivities, and the journey from hypervigilance to vigilance when dealing with environmental toxins
First Aired on: Sep 16, 2024
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Introduction
Jason Earle, a leading expert in mold detection and remediation, returns to share his personal experiences and professional insights on managing mold exposure and chemical sensitivities. We explore the delicate balance between being aware of environmental hazards and not letting that awareness control our lives.
Episode Highlights
The Difference Between Vigilance and Hypervigilance
Jason shares his recent experience with a sewage backup in his home, highlighting the importance of proper moisture control and the potential risks of using fragranced products during cleanup.
- The industry standard for water damage restoration (IICRC S500)
- The three types of water damage: clean, gray, and black water
- The importance of timely response to water damage
Chemical Sensitivities and Fragrance Exposure
We discuss the widespread use of fragrances in everyday products and their potential health impacts.
- The role of the trigeminal nerve in detecting volatile organic compounds (VOCs)
- How fragrances can trigger inflammatory responses
- The importance of fragrance-free environments, especially in healthcare settings
Reframing Our Approach to Environmental Toxins
Jason emphasizes the need to shift from a fear-based response to a more balanced approach when dealing with environmental toxins.
- The concept of hormetic stress and building resilience
- Using mindset and nervous system regulation techniques to manage exposures
- The importance of education and self-empowerment in dealing with mold and chemical sensitivities
Practical Steps for Improving Indoor Air Quality
We explore simple yet effective ways to enhance the air quality in our homes and workspaces.
- The benefits of opening windows regularly
- The importance of keeping things clean and dry
- Using high-quality air purifiers
At-Home Mold Testing
Jason introduces his company's at-home mold testing kit, designed to make professional-grade testing accessible and affordable for everyone.
- The benefits of using spore trap technology for mold testing
- How to interpret mold test results
- The importance of combining knowledge and data for informed decision-making
Notable Quotes
"Clean doesn't have a smell. If you walk into a house and it has an odor of any kind, that is working against you in the overall scheme of things in terms of the health of the home." - Jason Earle
"The best thing is to be resilient in the presence of [mold]. That is the ultimate empowerment - to realize that this is part of nature. We are part of nature. This is all by design." - Jason Earle
Key Takeaways
- Proper moisture control is crucial in preventing mold growth and water damage.
- Fragrances and chemical exposures can have significant impacts on health, especially for sensitive individuals.
- Shifting from hypervigilance to vigilance involves education, mindset work, and practical strategies for managing environmental exposures.
- Opening windows, keeping spaces clean and dry, and using air purifiers are simple yet effective ways to improve indoor air quality.
- At-home mold testing kits can provide valuable insights into your indoor environment, empowering you to make informed decisions about your health and living space.
Remember, while it's important to be aware of potential environmental hazards, it's equally crucial to develop resilience and a balanced approach to managing these challenges. By combining knowledge, practical strategies, and a positive mindset, we can create healthier living environments without succumbing to fear or anxiety.
To learn more about Jason Earle's work and access his at-home mold testing kit, visit gotmold.com/inspire. Use code INSPIRE10 for a 10% discount on your purchase.
Other Resources:
Connect with Jason Earle
Watch this interview:
Episode Transcript
Jason Earle:[00:00:00] Molds, boards are ubiquitous. Mold is as ever present. So , how do we really realistically, pragmatically avoid mold? We don't, you can minimize exposure, but the best thing is to be resilient in the presence of it. And that is the ultimate empowerment is to realize that this is part of nature.
Jason Earle: We are part of nature. This is all by design. And the key is that when we live in buildings where mold is growing, we get a high concentration of exposure. So we want to minimize this in buildings that we can control, but in building we can't control, we have to turn, to other tools.
Julie Michelson:[00:01:00] Welcome back to the inspired living with auto immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we are joined once again by Jason Earl, who is a man on a mission. Jason is an adoring father and an indoor air quality crusader. And he's the founder and CEO of one 800 got mold and Michael lab USA, as well as the creator of Got mold, the test kit.
Julie Michelson: Today, we are continuing our conversation from episode 149, and we're going deeper on moving from hypervigilance toward vigilance to live truly healthy lives, along with tips on just how to do that. We discuss how having chemical sensitivity can become a superpower. So if you feel like you're a canary in the coal mine, this episode is for you.
Julie Michelson: Jason, welcome back to the podcast.
Jason Earle: Great to be here.
Julie Michelson: I'm once again, [00:02:00] so excited for today's conversation and for listeners that didn't check it out, please go back and listen to episode one 49, where we talk about all the things, healthy houses, mold, mycotoxins, VOCs, what's really going on. , , but I asked Jason to return, um, so that we could go a little bit deeper into what was personally a big issue for me and what I see over and over and over again with clients.
Julie Michelson: , and it's this, I want to dig into this idea of vigilance versus hypervigilant, or maybe I should say it the other way around because usually we start with the hypervigilance and want to work our way. Toward just vigilance as a lifestyle, um, but not fear. And so I, I want to dig in a little bit about, you know, how, how do we make that transition?
Julie Michelson: What's the difference? , and what are you, what's your approach? to, [00:03:00] you know, getting just not living in fear so that we can have full healthy. If you're living in fear, you're not healthy yet. Right. So, ,let's, let's start there. But the last time I had you on, um, is kind of what inspired this part of the conversation, at least for me.
Julie Michelson: Um, because you kind of got caught in a little bit of a less vigilant than your typical state, um, in the process of a remediation. So if you're willing to share that, um, with folks, I think it's, it's also really important and fun for people to understand that your life, you know, we're always dealing with stuff.
Julie Michelson: Right. Like, and so even the mold guy needs to prevent certain things on the regular. So, um, yeah. How was your summer? What, what went on at your house?
Jason Earle: Well, [00:04:00] you know, I stepped in it, so to speak, , you know, walking down in the basement and what's that wet spot, you know? And, and why does it smell like that?
Jason Earle: And, uh, and sure enough, we had a toilet overflow. , and, um, So I had to pull out the, you know, what do I, how do I consult with myself here? You know, so, and it's always, you know, there's always so many variables and everyone's busy. And, you know, when water damage happens, it's never convenient. And when it's sewage, it's even less convenient.
Julie Michelson: There's literally never a good time to have sewage backing up into your house.
Jason Earle: No, especially not if you've got carpet and down where your
Julie Michelson: kids play in the kids
Jason Earle: play area in the gym, it can affect it. You know, it's a pathway to the laundry room. The whole thing's a mess, right? , and so the rule of thumb on this, I shouldn't say the rule of thumb, the guidance Provided in the industry standard,
Julie Michelson: which
Jason Earle: is called the IICRC S 500.
Jason Earle: IICRC is the International Institute of Cleaning and Restoration Contractors. And so this is the [00:05:00] body that, that, that, , develops and governs these, these standards of practice or standards of care for, , the cleaning and restoration industry. And so the S 500 covers water damage specifically, and it talks about the types of water you have.
Jason Earle: the quantity of water that you have, , and how long the water has been there. And those three variables, , are the driving forces behind what actions need to be taken by whom and when. And so, you know, there, there are rules there, there are, there are, there are the rules of the road. , and then you get into some professional judgment, of course, with all these things.
Jason Earle: And so, you know, there's not always a strong, it's not always a cut and dried, no pun intended, , or maybe pun intended, , cut and dried answer to some of these things. And so, you It's a, it's a, it's a genetic, , predisposition to my family. You know, I come from a family of wordsmiths. I can't help it. , so the, first rule is it revolves around clean water, gray water, or black water.
Jason Earle: So is the water clear? Did it come from a [00:06:00] sink? , was it gray, which means it's got some nutrition. So it might be from like a washing machine where there's, or, , movement of water through the foundation where there's got some dirt in it and stuff, but it's not. Really clearly feculent, you know, I mean, sure got a feces in it.
Jason Earle: , and then the third, which is black water is this is sewage or river water or ocean water, where there's a lot of nutrition that can support bacterial growth, notice I said bacterial, right? Yes. Uh, fungal growth, water. That's all you need. Great. Black doesn't matter. Water of any sort. You got fungal growth.
Jason Earle: Give it a couple of days. How many
Julie Michelson: other things do you also have to consider? That's right.
Jason Earle: Yeah. And that's when you get into sanitization, right? Because a lot of people mistakenly think you got to kill all the mold. You don't kill the mold when it's gray, when it's clear water, you don't need to kill anything.
Jason Earle: Uh, the concern is when we have bacteria involved. And of course, with, with sewage, we've got bacteria involved, , and gray water, we've got bacteria involved. So there, there, you need to start thinking about other things. So what I wanted to do when I [00:07:00] had this, this flood came in was I wanted to buy myself some time.
Jason Earle: This is not recommended. I don't tell people to do this. This is the difference between vigilance and hypervigilance. Okay. , knowing the scope of the issue, I, I called a water damage guy. Now I'm not from here, right? So I don't have a lot of resources here yet. I haven't had to deal with this. I don't offer my services on the inspection side of things professionally here.
Jason Earle: Um, and, so as a result, you
Julie Michelson: were kind of in the same, , although educated and experienced in the same boat as anybody else. Most of us don't do prior research to find who are we going to call if we have some kind of a water disaster go on. Right. So yeah, yeah. Level playing field kind of.
Jason Earle: Yeah, no, very much so.
Jason Earle: And, and also, you know, you come, you come to this, these things with preconceived notions about how people should do things. So I, I asked if he was ICRC certified, I asked if, if he was familiar with working with people in environmental sensitivities, he said, yes. And yes. , I told him I wanted him to [00:08:00] extract the moisture from it initially.
Jason Earle: Um, and to contain the work area, , just to buy some time. ,because I didn't want to tear everything up immediately, which is, by the way, not what the standard calls for. Okay. So this is me taking a, a known risk, , and, and so
Julie Michelson: I live with a doctor and, and the way he. Treats his patients. It's not the same stuff he does.
Julie Michelson: Right. That's right. I would never tell people to do what I did. Right. Yeah.
Jason Earle: I would, I would
Julie Michelson: always
Jason Earle: do not do this at home. If you have sewage, you, you have to have it removed. The carpet has to be removed. Okay. Cause you can't clean poop from fibers. You can't do it. , but I, I knew, knew that I was in the middle of going through, I was, I was going to go through some other changes down there and I wanted to buy some time.
Jason Earle: So I wanted him to extract it, not use fans because you don't want to stir that stuff up. Yeah, we don't want to contaminate those spaces. , and then, but I did want to remove all the moisture, , and I did want to dehumidify [00:09:00] and, uh, and obviously clean all of the hard surfaces, which it sanitizes hard surfaces, which it, and so I charged him with that responsibility and then I went upstairs and, , while I was upstairs, I smelled.
Jason Earle: The smell and the smell was not the smell that everyone thinks, right. The smell was a fragrance. It was a very, very strong soapy candle like fragrance for everyone here who's listening to this. If you, if you candles are, are, are, are really no bueno in homes, period. You shouldn't be burning stuff in your house without a chimney or an exhaust fan.
Jason Earle: And so candles that have Fragrances, boy, these, the data on this, these are ugly. Aroma modulators, endocrine disruptors, cancer, carcinogens. And don't even worry about what's in the candle. Once you burn it, it's different.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: So, you know, you don't even, nobody even knows really what's being produced by those.
Jason Earle: There's a lot of unknowns and those unknowns are not good unknowns. So anyway, I smell that candle smell, [00:10:00] I agonize and, and, you know, we don't have any fragrances in our home. Right. Me either. No. No, not, nope, don't want to
Julie Michelson: now.
Jason Earle: Yeah, no, there's no appeal to it. In fact, as I, you know, clean doesn't have a smell.
Jason Earle: This is
Julie Michelson: clean,
Jason Earle: doesn't have a smell. , and if you, if you make a list of the variables that make a house healthy or unhealthy, , near the top of the list is a healthy home is odorless. Yep. That means it doesn't smell like. New home. It doesn't smell like a fresh coat of paint. It doesn't smell like new car air, fresher.
Jason Earle: It doesn't smell like spring Irish, spring , right? Or a new car or any of those things. If you walk into a house and it has an odor of any kind, right? , that is working against you. in the overall scheme of things in terms of the, the health of the home. So, , when I smelled that smell, I, it was like everything I'd worked for, for all these years to have a pristine, , chemical free environment was, was shattered.
Jason Earle: So I went down and [00:11:00] boy, it was so strong. And I stopped the guy and I said, listen, I don't know what this is, but you know, this is, this is not in the, this is not, this doesn't fall within the parameters of what we initially discussed. He said, wow, I got to do something about this. The, the. The, the, the fecal smell.
Jason Earle: No, you don't. , that's not what I didn't ask. It wasn't part of the smell. , you know, anyway, , long story short, we ended up having to, uh, extract that as best we could. , and then ultimately, you know, we, I ended up having to. To really hold his feet to the fire on the, give me the name of the chemical that was being used.
Jason Earle: Took me days to get that, by the way, the SDS sheets, so I could actually see what it was. And you know what it was, the irony of it was, is that he sent me the picture of the package and, you know, it makes the fragrance. A candle company. I'm not even kidding. Oh, come on. You can't make this stuff up. And so, and I would say, this smells like the worst soap, the worst candle, like, you know, oh, the headache.
Jason Earle: I mean, and I had a headache for
Julie Michelson: weeks. I [00:12:00] cannot even imagine because it is the one thing that I see. Still, as, as resilient as I've gotten, if I get hit with certain, and I'm sure it's whatever those come, that was that chemical combination in the, in the fragrances, man, three day migraine. It, I just can't.
Julie Michelson: So I can't imagine, you know, that, that that's in passing or at the clinic or, you know, that's not in my home. If it was in my home,
Jason Earle: Oh, it was brutal. And it would, it would catch me. I would walk past the basement stairs and the waft would hit me. And I'd have this like wave of anger. And I realized that it wasn't so much that I was angry with him.
Jason Earle: Yes, I was. But I, I looked at this man who's older and I see him doing this work without a mask on. I see him doing this, , work, not aware. Right. No idea. This is not good for his customer, but certainly he's in there with any protection, protection of his own and without the thought that he's having this highly concentrated [00:13:00] exposure , to everything, a way of a massive, disgusting chemical synthetic fragrance on top of it.
Jason Earle: And so I pulled him aside outside. I said, listen, you know, man to man, human to human, this is what I do for a living. , this will shorten your life, dude. You know, like you just have to, you have to really, I want you to be aware of this. Send me the safety data sheet. I'm going to send you the data on what's behind that,
Julie Michelson: uh,
Jason Earle: so that you might change your tact on this because, , and so that I was mad, not so much with him.
Jason Earle: I was mad at myself because I did not clearly delineate to him in explicit terms. I'm in the Midwest, by the way, everyone reads between the lines here. I don't do that. , and so, , I, I was, maybe I was hoping he would read between the lines, , but I, I was pretty clear, like, hey, listen. You know, we, we don't use chemicals, we don't use fragrances, but was I specific enough for him to realize that this is a note, there's a zero tolerance for that stuff.
Jason Earle: Right. So, so when, when bringing people into your home, , you know, I forgot to say that, right. And I educate people about this. Right. So, so the, the, the vigilance and the [00:14:00] hypervigilance here is that we can't, we can't, here's where I would say that the line might be drawn is we have to be vigilant about moisture.
Jason Earle: Control.
Julie Michelson: Mm hmm.
Jason Earle: , if you're hypervigilant about that, then you're going to lose your mind because leaks happen. Right? Right. , and so, so you can't be worried about every leak that happens, but you can be worried about how quickly you respond to it., and so that's important because the difference between 48 hours and 96 hours is moisture problem versus mold problem that changes things.
Jason Earle: So I would say hypervigilant around the 70, trying to avoid getting to the 72 hours on a water damage issue. That's worth being hypervigilant about because this will change. This will change your, your bank account balance. It will change your health profile. It may change your. The rhythm of how often you have to seek, detox protocols, health care services, whatever the case may be.
Jason Earle: Um, so, um,
Julie Michelson: And you mentioned it last time, , directly and indirectly your bank account balance, because if you do get a water exposure, a [00:15:00] flood, a leak, , whatever, insurance companies give you how long? To in order for it to be covered, 72 hours, three
Jason Earle: days, three days, and they, and they will literally get down to, you know, the minute on that stuff.
Jason Earle: So when did that leak happen? , when did your water bill start to skyrocket? Like, you know, they, you, they can track this stuff quickly. If, you know, uh, when, when was it first identified? When was the, when did the sensor start, you know, the water sensor, the, the legal arm go off, you know? I don't know.
Jason Earle: That's that they're very specific about that 72 hours. And so water damage is covered by insurance almost up to the replacement cost value of the property. Uh, whatever needs to be done with water damage, as long as it's a covered claim. In other words, it's the source of the water is something that they would insure against.
Julie Michelson: They
Jason Earle: will say, Hey, Oh, by the way, no, we don't cover movement of groundwater through ground water. We don't do acts of God. We don't cover, you know, a leak. We'll cover, we'll cover a burst pipe, but that same pipe, if [00:16:00] it had just a pinhole leak and it was just drip, drip, drip, they won't cover that. It's got to be sudden and accidental.
Jason Earle: And so if it's a sudden and accidental leak and it's, and it falls within what they call a covered peril, then, then they will give you the grace of 72 hours. And at, at 72 hours you are on your own and on top of it, they also will, will, will count that against you as a, , as a claim. Now you're wrist a claim and now you, and now you now, if you go back to them for the second time, usually they'll drop, you raise your rates or, and oftentimes or bump you into an assigned risk program.
Jason Earle: Basically, , kind of like a drunk, somebody who speeds too much, you know, insurance. Yeah, go through the roof. So, , so yeah, you gotta be super hypervigilant around 72 hours. , thank you for
Julie Michelson: explaining that a little further just cause I find it shocking, um, but then not once I think it through when I, you know, when you account for all of the types of water damage that aren't covered and, and the reality is they don't want to pay anyway.
Julie Michelson: And like you, you already mentioned, I want to [00:17:00] highlight too, You want to be handling this immediately for your health, right? And, and to avoid those bigger future problems. , I'm curious. If you think, cause you mentioned you were angry and you're a pretty chill dude. , I'm curious if part of that response and I get the genuine frustration, cause I've gone through it myself where, you know, I think I'm so careful, but I, then I don't articulate, I just, you know, we're not outwardly, especially in our own home, but you asked all the right questions.
Julie Michelson: So, You mentioned last time we were talking about like the, the, those. Connection, the olfactory senses and, , that stress response. Yes.
Jason Earle: Yes.
Julie Michelson: And we talked about, you know, the, the things that can trigger that. And I know for me, fragrance does that.
Jason Earle: Yes.
Julie Michelson: Right. So I, I mean, I think that may, to me, I can almost feel that for you [00:18:00] of, I don't have a basement, but if I did and that, I, I would be like zero to like a million like that.
Julie Michelson: , and so I just wanted to mention that because I, I think it is part of the conversation, right? We're going to talk about how do we not live in fear because certain things are going to trip us immediately into stress and, and fear and stress live in the same place.
Jason Earle: Yeah. So there's the, you know, the anger.
Jason Earle: I've also, you know, at this stage of my life, I've realized that most of my outward anger is actually a reflection of some internal, , internally directed, , thing right at the world's mirror. , and so, , You know, does that highlight my, did that highlight my insecurity? Hey, you know, like, wait, I'm supposed to be, you know, right.
Jason Earle: Like, so, so, you know, in all candor, was that like a, , was that a, , a shot to my, my professional, uh, professionalism or, you know, competence, you know, so I'm sure my, my ego didn't like that, right. And then [00:19:00] also my kids play down there. So now I've got a real sort of existential, you know, , this is what I do.
Jason Earle: If I, if my knowledge and experience isn't useful to protect my own family, then for what, only helping others, what am I doing here? , so there's that and then, , and then also to your point, and I was going to go there too. So thank you. The, as we mentioned in our last discussion, the, we have these amazing sensors in our face.
Jason Earle: , everyone, well, you're familiar with your eyes and your nose, right? Those are the pretty amazing sensors, but we have nerves in our face That are known as the trigeminal nerve, the cranial nerves, and they have nerve endings in the eyes, mouth, and jaw, and they are, traditionally associated with pain, cold, and, and, and heat, pain, heat, and cold sensing, , somatosensory is what they call it, but they, they, they also have this amazing chemosensory, meaning chemical sensory, chemosensory.
Jason Earle: And they can pick up and they do pick up compounds specifically VOCs, , and most fragrances [00:20:00] are, or have, are VOC based. And, they can pick up these compounds. At very, very low concentrations in the parts per billion range, , which is the equivalent of like a 55 gallon drum, right? So like really tiny concentrations, and below the odor threshold.
Jason Earle: So you don't even need to be able to smell. Some VOCs don't even have an odor, but still can trigger, uh, the trigeminal nerve irritation, which is what it's, what's, what it's known as. And that irritation will then. Send a signal to the brain, , through this very high speed, it goes straight back. I mean, with nerve endings that are about this thick, , with nerve channels rather go back, back about this thick and, can trigger cytokine.
Jason Earle: Storms and now
Julie Michelson: people are familiar with,
Jason Earle: right, right. Now they're, in vogue now. not to say that you want them, , but most people are familiar with the term and by the way, which is the same, , inflammatory signal that, , Lyme disease, for example, [00:21:00] triggers as well as mold exposure.
Jason Earle: So you end up with basically like a tractor trailer, loads of. Chemical signals going down a one lane road. Yeah. And, and if you've already got that signal being, sent through your system because of Lyme or mold or any combination of other inflammatory conditions, then you end up with too many of those vehicles on one very narrow road.
Jason Earle: And so then you end up with this, you know, this over overwhelm in the system overwhelm. and then all these other things pop up to the surface, right. Autoimmune, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, , The fascinating part about this, and there are many, many pieces that are fascinating about the whole trigeminal nerve piece, because what we're seeing now is that this, what we call toxicity, is more than likely, in many cases, trigeminal nerve irritation and an inflammatory response, more response to a toxic compound, but not necessarily toxicity.
Jason Earle: System. Right.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: Big difference. Right. There
Julie Michelson: Yeah, go.
Jason Earle: Yeah. And then, and then let's circle back on that because the other, because what happens also is interesting is that [00:22:00] there's some studies that show that anxiety actually makes the trigeminal nerve more sensitive or more active. And so
Julie Michelson: hypervigilant, if you're anxious.
Jason Earle: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: It's all
Jason Earle: the nervous system. We, we've told what we're talking about. There's a thing about psychosomatic illness, which is it's in your head. This is like a really insulting thing to people that are chemically sensitive. Right. But, but if I say psychophysiological, then we're, we're actually saying the same thing to a large degree.
Jason Earle: But what we're saying is it's not in your head. Well, it's in your brain, but it's not in your mind. And I think that's the distinction, right? This is your nervous system, , overreacting or hyper being hyper hyper vigilant. and so you end up with this, This distinction between it's all in your head.
Jason Earle: In other words, you can't, you're thinking, you're thinking, thinking versus it's in your head. In other words, in your brain, in your nervous system. And that's, that's, I think, an important distinction. And so you end up with this negative loop or this vicious cycle of, uh, anxiety [00:23:00] causing a hypersensitive, uh, you know, trigeminal response, which then triggers all these adrenal, uh, adrenal, , overflows.
Jason Earle: And then you end up with more anxiety and then you end up with, uh, you know, this, this entire, uh, incredible loop. And so how do you, how do you deal with that? Well, learning how to get your nervous system under control, uh, through somatic work and through. Meditation and breathing breath work, and also, you know, certain herbs and, and, and, and minerals and all the things that you can do to just learn how to calm your nervous system down on a proactive basis.
Jason Earle: So that when these things come up, which they will, uh, your body and your mind are in alignment to say, Hey, we got this. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
Julie Michelson: which, and this is the big takeaway for everyone who's listening today, no matter where else this conversation goes. Um, because that is. always the point of these conversations is we can retrain the brain and the nervous system.
Julie Michelson: We can heal. We can become less [00:24:00] sensitive. We can break the patterns, create new patterns, um, which doesn't mean we're then immune to that physiological response because it's a physiological response. It's a protective mechanism. And it is physical. Fascinating as humans that we're, I don't even know how this happened and maybe you have some theories, that when we think of, of how intentional we have to be to avoid fragrance and limit our VOC exposure.
Julie Michelson: In today's world, right? Like how come we have lost that connection with clean? Doesn't have a smell, right? Like clean. Doesn't mean it smells like something for months and months. Therefore it must be really clean. Like we're so far away from life in nature.
Jason Earle: Totally.
Julie Michelson: That that, of course, so many of us had have [00:25:00] gotten kind of caught in that loop, whether it whatever the initial triggers were, , I think I don't remember if I mentioned when we were recording or not recording.
Julie Michelson: I know when I had a mold inspector come through the house and and , actually, it was the remediation specialist who came who came and he asked me, , You know, if I had, what, how did he word it though? , but basically we were talking and I was asking questions not related to why I, I, you know, other things in the house, right?
Julie Michelson: Like other, the vigilance. So yeah, I had this guy who knew what he was doing. and he just looked at me and he was like, you know, what's your diagnosis? And I said, oh, I don't, I don't have a diagnosis. You know, at this point I was already healed and I don't care to have a diagnosis. and he was like, but you sound, I was like, I'm, I'm very chemically sensitive.
Julie Michelson: Right. Doesn't matter how I got there. And, and, you know, yes, I'm less. So I'm more [00:26:00] resilient. I bounce back quicker. but I still want to protect myself from all of these things. Like you don't have to be bed bound. To be wise, to protect yourself from these exposures.
Jason Earle: , yeah. Well, there's a couple of things that, that brings to mind.
Jason Earle: First of all, the canaries in the coal mine, which is what we're often referred
Julie Michelson: to
Jason Earle: as, there's a, an. Well, I'm going to ask, I was asthmatic as a kid too, right. As, as, as, as most people have heard my story are fully aware of, , severely asthmatic. And, and so I was shy about that because it was perceived back then as a weakness, like the run to the litter, like the last kid that's going to, so most of the people, my people, I never brought my inhaler out, you know, it was always kind of like, that was a secret.
Jason Earle: Most of my friends don't even know that I was asthmatic, but just kind of wow. Now, uh, but, uh, but the, I
Julie Michelson: say, wow, because I know how sick you got. Yeah. Right. So that was the wow. Yeah.
Jason Earle: It was not apparent in middle school, which is when things really transitioned from me anyway. Yeah. because I [00:27:00] moved out of that moldy house.
Julie Michelson: Well, and so much of what my experience, your experience, listeners experience with overcoming illness is it's not visible to the outside world anyway. Right. Like
Jason Earle: disabilities. They
Julie Michelson: are. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Earle: So The thing that comes to mind is that I thought long believed that that was a weakness. And as I got into the industry and I began trying to help, , people navigate this before I really understood how to navigate it.
Jason Earle: I also kind of had that feeling when I was in homes that people were sort of less than, even though I was one of them. And I kept thinking, gosh, you know, like I just really wanted to help them from, from that place of. I don't want to say pity, but you know, compassion, empathy. Yeah. And then, and then something shifted inside of me, uh, about 10 years into this, uh, this journey, which was that, wait a second, the things that they're sensitive to are bad for everybody.
Jason Earle: So wait a second,
Julie Michelson: this is a weakness, this is a superpower. Intelligence that people, other [00:28:00] people have lost touch with. This is a
Jason Earle: superpower. It's a strength. And it, and it doesn't feel like it. And by the way, most of the, if you, if you watch like Marvel and you know, my kids are that age now where they're starting to, the super superheroes are, they, they have these super powers, right.
Jason Earle: But they almost always have some, some Achilles heel, some weirdness and oftentimes they're not kind of socially acceptable, right. They're kind of nerds or, you know, or they're, you know, they're a little bit. They're, they're on the periphery, you know, so society, because their strength, their superpower actually comes with this other side to it.
Jason Earle: Right. Which is this, this perceived, you know, uh, other otherness. Right. Otherness.
Julie Michelson: I like that.
Jason Earle: And, and so the, so I, I started looking at the saying, man, this is, this is actually really something that needs to be celebrated. And then, and because, you know, if you've got one person like that in a family of five, that person's actually picking up the toxin before anyone else and then it being able to a take action to avoid it for themselves, then reducing the [00:29:00] likelihood of additional long term health consequences, but then also being able to, to, you know, To, to make that change for the benefit benefit of their family.
Jason Earle: So I, I started feeling like not bad for them,, and for myself, but saying, shoot, you know, like we need to start boosting these people in the sense of like, Hey, listen, this is good news. You know, like now the question is, how do you take that sensitivity and, and reframe it, which is kind of what we're talking about now into this strength.
Jason Earle: And this often happens when you get a remediation, by the way, where a remediation gets affected, the person who is the most sensitive gets better. And then suddenly the other four people who didn't think they were sick suddenly are sleeping through the night. They're not, they're not blowing their nose every 15 minutes.
Jason Earle: They're not, you know, having emotional dysregulation at every, at the drop of a, of a, of a hat. So like, you know, suddenly those people realize that. That their baseline idea of health had been shifted such so low that they thought that was normal. They thought they were okay, but suddenly now they're better.
Jason Earle: That can heal the whole family. And that also gives credence to the sensitive person who now is the sort of [00:30:00] now they're there. They're the mold dog.
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Jason Earle: right there. They're the leader of the environmental crusade. And, and so, you know, it gives them that sense of purpose instead of this, this, this thing where they feel like they have to suppress that, that those signals, , and suppress that, their responses and reactions , to their own family.
Jason Earle: And so, so I, the, the beginning of the reframing, I think when it comes from hypervigilance to vigilance is around that getting and being validated, I think helps a lot. and so, you know, being hypervigilant is kind of like, you know, when you're never being listened to, you kind of have to yell and scream all the time because no one listens to you otherwise.
Jason Earle: And so if you find suddenly you're validated and you go, Hey, it doesn't work for me, you know, like maybe, you know, maybe we should make an adjustment here. You can start to tamp that down and then start focusing on what's practical. Yeah. What's, what's, what's, what's attainable. , and then what's also measurable to some degree, even though a lot of this is like
Julie Michelson: smart goals.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Yeah. They're basically smart goals. and you know, the realistic part is also really important [00:31:00] because you know, if you can't get the contractor out because you live in a, you know, you have to surrender to some of these things and you have to. Right. You know, you, you have to also become self-empowered enough to be able to take certain actions on your own, and not necessarily have to turn everything over to, to a third party.
Jason Earle: and that means getting educated around this stuff, which is what this conversation is really all about.
Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And, and ultimately that education lead is, the first and the biggest step to lead to the empowerment, which is why we're here. Really. That's right. Yeah. which I love, and again, I wanna highlight like, hey.
Julie Michelson: Even Jason, you know, because there is, there is also this, like, you were dealing with a professional who had the knowledge and certifications you, you would recommend people look for, right? There is the kind of that fine line too of assuming everybody else is an idiot, right? Like, like, so we're going to have the coulda woulda shoulda happen sometimes [00:32:00] where I mean, even I keep even at the clinic.
Julie Michelson: I haven't. Made it a thing. And now I will because I feel empowered from this conversation. I know there are a lot of functional medicine clinics out there that ask you, please do not come to the clinic with any fragrance on whatsoever. And we've never made it a rule. And two days ago, I was, I was at the clinic.
Julie Michelson: I was working. I was not working in that moment. I wasn't with, a client and, but I was in my office and one of the girls came up and she said, I'm shutting your door because You're going to get sick, you know, I, the interesting thing is this is actually a new employee doesn't even know me well. Um, but I guess has heard me kind of scurry away or avoid certain people if they come in wearing, and I'm going to say fragrance instead of perfume is sometimes it's, it's a hand cream.
Julie Michelson: It's a, you mentioned candles., [00:33:00] I, we had an employee and it's interesting because I never noticed it on her person. I inherited a computer bag and a, and a, um, a bank deposit envelope holder, one of those little like foamy. Synthetic thingies, um, from her that I literally had the, the, the deposit book, I was able to, it was an eight to eventually just even be able to the, the computer.
Julie Michelson: I had to get rid of so not even just the computer case the laptop and I'm and she has a little boy and I'm thinking what must her home smell and it was the can't whatever you want to call whatever that means to you that candle fragrance that plug in fragrance the I cannot even I tried for to get this laptop to not.
Julie Michelson: I mean, it was the innards of the laptop that I've never [00:34:00] experienced anything like that before. , but so you have, thank you. You, this is, you know, a personal win. You've empowered me to like, no, I am going to train patients and let them know that they are not welcome in the clinic with fragrance on. And it can start a great conversation to educate them as to why, right?
Julie Michelson: Why?
Jason Earle: It's not uncommon though, by the way. I know, , Dr. Ray, who passed away a couple, a couple of years ago, had very clear, all over the place, you know, on the emails, you know, you know what I mean? Like literally, like if you're going to,
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: You know, and by the way, you know, if you're coming in here for environmental health and you're still using that stuff, you know, most people are
Julie Michelson: until they learn, right.
Julie Michelson: Which is, again, is why we're, we're talking and encouraging, like educate yourself. Um, and. It's okay if people who don't understand get offended, because I've been through this. [00:35:00] Whereas I'm not saying you smell bad or I don't like your choice of scent. That has nothing to do with it. you know, it's that I go into that stress response state and I know where it can lead.
Julie Michelson: , and I know the impact.
Jason Earle: Oh, well, this brings up to two different little anecdotes that would be since we're talking about, you know, how Jason moves through the world when it comes to this stuff. , Number one is, , Uber's, and Airbnb's. Oh, can we,
Julie Michelson: can we start an Uber, a travel, Uber slash Airbnb fragrance free company?
Julie Michelson: I think it would do really well.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Or, or how about this, like a petition, like change. org or something like that for Uber and Airbnb and say, Hey guys, listen, you know, there's a big population who, by the way, like to travel and that are that have to travel for business that are affluent and that are aware.
Jason Earle: And you don't want to lose this group. Right. Uh, [00:36:00] and so, yeah, when are they going to
Julie Michelson: make it, you know, you could do share a ride. You could do XL, you could do all the different, make the choices on Uber. Why can't you do fragrance free? I have gotten out of a car. You know, because windows down wasn't enough.
Julie Michelson: , one time when I was in Calvin, actually, I think it was the trip where I met you the first time. , and, and I, we were in Beverly Hills and I literally, I was with a friend of mine who was as equally chemically sensitive and on, on, you know, the, the, the good end of her healing journey. And we just both looked at each other and I was like, actually pull over.
Julie Michelson: I couldn't do it.
Jason Earle: Yeah. No, it's not uncommon. And I find that it is, uh, It's a 90 percent of the Uber's that I'm in. Uh, and it's not,
Julie Michelson: it's a, we, it seems to be, I mean, this particular one, I think we counted had five air fresheners in it. Like what to what? What are you doing? This smells that bad. Yeah. And, and like you said, even with the poop, like any fragrance [00:37:00] on top of another smell, you just smell both.
Julie Michelson: It's like the, you know, the early teenage boy who still has B. O. buddies. It's wearing, you know, acts or whatever. And it's like, Oh, two, two bad, two bad smells. Yeah. No, we
Jason Earle: don't, we don't need that. You go and you smell the sweat socks and the, and the, and the, so I, you know, I stopped just short of bringing a, you know, a, a carbon mask with me, uh, because I mostly just open the windows.
Julie Michelson: you wish you, you did bring the mask?
Jason Earle: Yeah. And I, and I, I have no, I've been very tempted. I mean, I've got, you know, I, I, I. I'm just so reluctant because I still have, I'm still a little sheepish around, you know, I still want, I don't want to offend them, uh, but at the same time, you know what I mean, there's a certain point where they're, they're, so I've actually, I've actually shared, research with drivers and about fragrances and how it, you know, their, their hormone modulators and they have a genetic impact.
Jason Earle: And, you know, these are, these are really significant. They have long term. Health impacts and short term health [00:38:00] impacts and the long term health impacts. The epigenetics on fragrances is emerging. Go, go to chat GPT and, and look up epigenetics and fragrances. And you'll be like, Whoa, the, our sense of smell triggers, or I should say that our response to odors has massive.
Jason Earle: epigenetic implications that are just now being explored. So I'm not going to roll the dice on that stuff. I want to, I want to minimize exposure to unknown compounds that are, by the way, not just a moat, not just triggering, uh, on an epigenetic basis, but also there's, there, there's associative conditioning on that stuff, which is part of the reason why odors and fragrances are so ubiquitous, right?
Jason Earle: That's the branding thing for, for, for companies, you know, and it's also. You know, so they hit you in certain emotional ways and it anchors certain emotional conditions. I don't want that stuff. That's noise, right? Right. You know, you want to
Julie Michelson: be in reality, not being manipulated by, yeah,
Jason Earle: exactly. And to be
Julie Michelson: fair, to, to acknowledge, because I had this amazing, and by having a [00:39:00] conversation, I'm the same as you, I don't want to offend anybody either, but I do want to help people.
Julie Michelson: And I want to educate people. And I was in an Uber in January, in the Phoenix area. And the Uber driver had, she had a mask on, and we started a conversation and, and I, I said, at some point, I just want to thank you for not having air fresheners in your car. Cause it was going to be like a half hour ride.
Julie Michelson: And I, again, conditioning, I have fear around getting in, you know, what am I going to be getting into when I get into an Uber? But. certain trips, it doesn't make sense to rent a car. And, and it created this wonderful, she took her mask off. She was wearing the mask to protect herself from the customers that get in the car doused with fragrance.
Jason Earle: Wow.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, because she was chemically sensitive and fighting chronic illness. And so it can't, you know, like [00:40:00] we all can have these conversations and learn to, you know, ultimately it's for our own health, but sometimes we make the changes to support other people first. And then we realize like, like you said, Oh, wow.
Julie Michelson: And I feel better. So
Jason Earle: I'll leave you with this one, one little anecdote, as it relates to, you know, pragmatism and, , vigilance, hypervigilance. , I recently went down to, Austin, Texas for, hack your health. Former KetoCon.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: And uh, got there kind of late, had a big setup. So I didn't get to my hotel until 11 o'clock at night.
Julie Michelson: Oh
Jason Earle: no. And I chose this hotel, because it was made of materials that do not support fungal growth that you can tell from the pictures. They didn't have wall to wall carpet. They had like a jute area rug. Good. Right. Over hard surface. Yeah. Yeah. Polish concrete floor, you know, [00:41:00] terracotta block walls, no sheet rock.
Jason Earle: Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Like all, all, all my, I want to stay there,
Julie Michelson: except I guess I don't, I'm thinking, but so far I'd be in. Yeah, no, I
Jason Earle: was in and in and nails that really, you know, really good, menu and the restaurant with like local seasonal organic stuff. And I just thought, man, this is, you know, this is where I'm going to stay, you know, every time I've been Austin, I'm thinking, I, I, I finally figured it out.
Jason Earle: I don't have to worry about Airbnb, flip a coin on the fragrances and all that kind of stuff. So I show up at, uh, and I walk in the room and boom, I mean, it's the moment I walk in, it was like getting knocked off out of my shoes with that musty smell. And it was just like, so dank and so strong and so overwhelming that, my heart sank because I realized, man, like, I don't want to move my room at 11 o'clock at night.
Jason Earle: So I called down and said, Hey, you know, I think there's a mold problem. And they're like, how do you know? And I said, do you see my email address on my Jason at gotmold. com? Yeah. Okay. Well, [00:42:00] she, Oh,
Julie Michelson: okay. Bye. Bye.
Jason Earle: So, and I found it, you know, it was in the air conditioning unit. And the thing is they cycle on and off air conditioning.
Jason Earle: Word to the wise guys, anyone who's buying an air conditioning system or running an air conditioner, it should say it should not turn off during the human months. You'd actually run on the lowest possible setting. Or 24 seven, because the moment it turns off, you get condensation inside there. And if dust is accumulated, because of course it's an air conveyance system, dust does accumulate in those things.
Jason Earle: Mold will grow on that dust. And so if you cycle on and off on a daily basis, you have mold growth every single time. And so it, and it compounds. And so you end up with this overwhelming musty smell. And they do this to save energy, right? They love to have the AC turn off. Hotels, especially if the back door opens up, right?
Jason Earle: Right. Everything gets wet. Why did everything get wet? Well, because now the air movement has stopped and the, and the dehumidification has stopped.
Julie Michelson: And
Jason Earle: so that's what an air conditioner really is. It's a air conditioning is not just air cooling. It's air conditioning. It's conditioning the air for heat [00:43:00] for, for temperature and humidity.
Jason Earle: And so anyway, I, I called down and they said, well, I'm sorry, Mr. Earl, but we're fully booked. , and so we cannot move you. And I thought, man, am I going to sleep on the porch outside? Cause I had a balcony. I thought all those things. And then I. Then I reeled it back in because every single time I've ever stayed in a musty hotel room, every single time, I mean, every time I end up with, night terrors.
Jason Earle: Uh, flipping and flopping around. I I can't sleep for like a minute. Sure. I'm just, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm angry. And, you know, there's just all this sort of, you know, psychophysiological response, right. And so then I, then I took a page out of, out of the primal trust. playbook, which is, you know, for anyone who's listening to this is, is interested in a neural retraining.
Jason Earle: There's DNRS, which is kind of the original method. Then there's, uh, you know, reorigin is a newer one. Uh, goop, the method is another one. My favorite is primal trust. org. Uh, Kathleen King does beautiful [00:44:00] work and it's much more affordable. And it's also much more expansive beyond the typical, just DNRS stuff.
Jason Earle: And, uh, so I, I started, I went and started the self talk. Hey, you know what? Jason. You've been, you, you do a great job. You're you're, you're super vigilant about this stuff. A little exposure is a hormetic stressor. I started selling myself. It's all good kid. You know, like you got this, you're stronger than you think you're resilient.
Jason Earle: This is a non event. If anything, you're going to get stronger from this. And so I went outside and I meditated for 10 minutes and I brought my nervous system down. My heart rate to my, my, my, my, my resting rate. Did some nice breathing, went inside, brushed my teeth, taped my mouth, went to sleep, slept all the way through the night, woke up without a single, I mean, I slept like a baby, strangely, and also didn't have puffy eyes.
Jason Earle: I didn't have all the stuff that's sort of the hallmark of me sleeping in a moldy room. [00:45:00] Didn't have any congestion. And I slept right through my nose the entire night, of course, because my mouth was taped. I had no congestion, I had no dryness, I had no headaches, I had no sleep dysregulation, emotional dysregulation.
Jason Earle: And, and I was fully rested in the morning. Um, they moved me to another room, which was just as bad, I was gonna say. And I stayed for the next two nights. And, and I was, and I did the same thing. And I had a great conference and I had, I had great mental clarity and I had all the things that are typically.
Jason Earle: Where I fail, where my body fails, uh, when I'm, when I'm exposed to mold in a significant way. And so this is not to say that you shouldn't worry about this stuff. Actually, it is to say, you shouldn't worry about it. You shouldn't worry about anything because worry doesn't change anything, but you, you, you, you, there are ways to navigate this that are not just about complete avoidance because the, and the sort of the takeaway here is that we live on planet fungi.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: You know, it is, it is. Mold spores are [00:46:00] ubiquitous. I mean, the, the, the, the, I dunno if I said this last time, but molds, they're kingdom fungi, mushrooms, and Yes. And, and molds produce 50 megatons of spores every year. 50 megatons is, is 20 times as much tea as is drank every year, uh, every, by the entire population, uh, of the world.
Jason Earle: Um, and so, you know, w molds, boards are ubiquitous. Mold is as ever present. So how do we, how do we really realistically, pragmatically avoid mold? We don't, uh, right. You, you can, you can minimize exposure, but the best thing is to be resilient in the presence of it. Um, and, and, and that, that is the ultimate empowerment is to realize that this is part of nature.
Jason Earle: We are part of nature. Uh, this is all by design. And the, the key is that when we live in buildings where mold is growing, we get a high concentration of exposure. So we want to minimize this in buildings that we can control, but in building we can't control, we have to turn, we have to turn to other tools.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Um, and, and we have to turn to, you know, how do we. Get our nervous system and our mindset in such a [00:47:00] way that we can be resilient and, and ultimately in some cases unaffected. And that's, what's really cool. So, uh, this is an opportunity to reframe that, that process. This is not a dose response relationship.
Jason Earle: I guess that's my point. Right? Uh, this is, this is a much more nuanced relationship we have with, with these exposures. And, and it is not nearly as sort of, uh, Newtonian that you, this exposure equals this outcome. It's not like that. Um, a lot of this has to do with the internal environment that you bring to the external environment.
Julie Michelson: I love it. I love it. I, I, on a much smaller, I mentioned, you know, the little exposures at the clinic. This is what I do. I, if I catch myself right away, because history, the old pattern, the recording in my head, you know, when I, I'm aware of an [00:48:00] exposure, you know, is the like, Oh, you know, I, I, I play the old tapes.
Julie Michelson: And so now I, it's that same, I take that moment. I reset my mindset. I do myself talk of like, I'm strong and I'm resilient and I, I don't need to be affected by this. I will not be affected by this. And I do the same thing. I remove myself. Breathe, reset nervous system, and it works, but here's the key is you have to have those tools in your toolbox.
Julie Michelson: to be able to pull them out on the spot and use them. So, yeah, yeah,
Jason Earle: you're not going to learn that while you're sitting, you can't it won't work. You can't learn that while you're sitting at, and by the way, I still, I don't really, it doesn't really, uh, work for me that well in like, uh, uh, fragrance super, because it's so overwhelming.
Jason Earle: And it literally gives me an instant headache and I go, right. You know, how many cars are there in this, uh, in the country? I don't need to be in this one. So, but hotel rooms, I can get
Julie Michelson: out of the car. [00:49:00] This room
Jason Earle: I'm in, you know, like I'm not gonna, I don't have a tent with me and, uh, and I'm not sleeping on the balcony.
Jason Earle: So, so I, I have to make the most of this. And so there's a different degree of, you know, so again, that goes back to like, you know, there's a pragmatism. And, and all of this as well, but you have to have the skills, the tools, the knowledge that do you have to practice this stuff
Julie Michelson: by the way,
Jason Earle: that's your chance to practice, you learn it and then you, then you're in it.
Jason Earle: And now that's the time to actually pull that tool out and go, okay. And I almost forgot. I almost forgot that I had the post. Sure. Because you were in a stress
Julie Michelson: response .
Jason Earle: Right. I was, I was in that, you know? Yeah. And, and, and the trigeminal nerve picks that up. I get an anxiety and say, you know, it's a
Julie Michelson: physiological response.
Julie Michelson: Yep. And I, and it, and it,
Jason Earle: it took a, an extra level, high, uh, level of, of self-awareness to realize that I was going to a place that I, that was both wanna go. That was not necess, that was not gonna be helpful. Yeah. And then, and then, and then after I got that under control and started thinking from a [00:50:00] position of love instead of fear, I, you know, that sounds woo woo, but it's really true.
Jason Earle: It's saying, you know, and I even said, I love the mold, you know, like I look at, look at what I do. Like, this is my opportunity. Um, and, and I, and I really try to give it kind of a big, loving hug and say, okay, this is a situation, you know, uh,
Julie Michelson: we've co existed for a really long time. Right. So you just told us we can't get away from it.
Julie Michelson: I know. I love that. This leads us to your opportunity to give listeners again, a step that they can take one step that they can take starting today to improve their health.
Jason Earle: Well, there's, I think, uh, the first thing, and I think I mentioned this, uh, when we, uh, when we spoke last, which was what is the, uh, number one thing you can do to improve your health is.
Jason Earle: Open your windows. Yes. Yay. That was my first. The next thing you can do, I think, is, [00:51:00] um, this is assuming that people are running air purifiers and, you know, keeping things clean and dry. Right. So the first thing is clean things, clean and dry. Um, Then open the windows. Um, and then the other thing is, is that of course, you know, and I'm not really want to pitch my, my product, but I, but I also, no, but, but I, since
Julie Michelson: I did a terrible job and we didn't even mention it, and I just assume listeners are gonna take my advice and listen to the first episode we did, but yeah.
Julie Michelson: What? Yeah, so please, ,
Jason Earle: the reason that the, the, the reason I'm in this business is 'cause of my personal issues, uh, with, with mold and, and asthma, et cetera, as a child. And then I, I got into the inspection business. Uh. 23 years ago and then realized, uh, that this is cost prohibitive for most people. Most people couldn't afford an inspection or testing, uh, by a reputable, uh, qualified, uh, inspector.
Jason Earle: And so, uh, I decided to put a dream team of scientists and engineers together to create an affordable solution for everybody, which, which is, uh, what keeps me busy, [00:52:00] uh, these days. And so, uh, so we, we launched on got mold. com, uh, about two years ago with the highest quality at home test kit. Uh, on the market uses a device called spore traps, which capture airborne particles, including spores.
Jason Earle: Uh, and we partnered with the number one lab in the world, uh, Eurofins for the highest quality analysis possible. And so, uh, using our Gottmull test kit, uh, you can test your air with the same device as the professionals use, but without the cost or hassle associated with trying to find a higher one. Um, and so, uh, you can learn more about that at gottmull.
Jason Earle: com slash inspire. Which is a welcome page that we created for all of your listeners here. Um, and, uh, and there you will see that, uh, there's an ebook there, which I highly recommend,
Julie Michelson: uh,
Jason Earle: I highly recommend everybody who's curious about this or concerned about an issue, especially if you're not ready to hire an inspector, read that ebook, it's about 40 pages of inspection checklists and FAQs.
Jason Earle: It's not 40 pages of reading. So don't, don't sweat that, but you'll get a quick, you'll get a quick write down on the do's and [00:53:00] don'ts. Uh, again, there's, it's totally free and we get tremendous feedback on this. People tell us we should charge for this actually.
Julie Michelson: Yes.
Jason Earle: And, uh, and so, so once you've gone through, it also gives you the ability to do an inspection in your own house with checklists.
Jason Earle: And like I said, you can, you can do your own quick analysis.
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Jason Earle: empowerment. And, you know, now, now, you know what to look for outside and you know what to look for inside and all those things. And that's really our driving force here is education, because this is something it's like teach a man to fish versus, you know, fish for him or her, or, or teach them.
Jason Earle: I much prefer the latter. And. And then also anyone who's interested in a test kit can use the code Inspire 10 for a 10% discount@gotmold.com. So you can either, you know, use that on the website or you can go through the welcome page, like I said, got mold.com/inspire. Now quickly, the test kit allows you to test your air and up to three rooms.
Jason Earle: Um, the. The results come back within three business days once the samples are at the lab. So you get the kit, you collect the samples, you send them in and the whole thing is automated. [00:54:00] Um, and then once you own the kit, you get to keep the pump and the pump, the air sampling pump allows you to retest again for less.
Jason Earle: So you can get refills, uh, you can just amazing rooms for 50 less for each, uh, each time you chose to use it. And then where you can share the pump with friends, which is a very common thing. People share it with their friends, with their colleagues. You know, if they're a teacher, they serve with other teachers and schools and tenants Which just goes back
Julie Michelson: to your mission and your integrity, right?
Julie Michelson: Of the whole purpose is to get these quality tests into the hands of people that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. And they're using, as people have been for a long time, you know, tests that are just not. Effective. They're not good. They're not reliable. So,
Jason Earle: um, yeah, they're very reliable for generating results that are alarming and fearful, uh, or fear, you know, like, I mean, but they're not leading to
Julie Michelson: wellness.
Jason Earle: They're not, they're leading to, they're perpetuating the fear, that fear [00:55:00] anxiety loop, uh, that we talk about so much on this, on this podcast. Um, and so, you know, what we're trying to do is give people the knowledge that they need. To be able to make better decisions.
Julie Michelson: Um,
Jason Earle: and so the combination of knowledge and data, um, is really what we're all about.
Jason Earle: And so, uh, so hopefully, uh, some of your listeners will find some, uh, some help there also. And then in terms of like getting in touch with me, uh, we are, uh, We're pretty active on Instagram these days, uh, gotmold on Instagram. So I have an ask Jason anything question, a post that's pinned so people can ask questions there.
Jason Earle: And I'm usually pretty good about responding to that quickly. Uh, and then we also take, you know, questions on our homepage, which is, you know, at the bottom, there's a contact form. I don't answer all of them, but I see them all. Uh, and they all get answered, you know, our, our customer service is probably what we're best known for.
Jason Earle: So, um, so you can go to gotmold. com and just drop a question in there if anybody has any questions.
Julie Michelson: Which is amazing. Jason, thank you so very much for coming back and, and continuing the conversation. [00:56:00] And I just, I love, you know, even though poop happens, sometimes we can choose how we handle it. That's right.
Julie Michelson: And, and I am. Definitely, I'm going to steal the, the psychophysiological response versus, you know, because our, our, our biological response, um, because people tend to, when we talk about psychosomatic, or when we talk about mindset. Um, re even reframing, there's certain things where, you know, those words have been misunderstood, even if they're technically correct, uh, to mean it's all in my head, as in, I made it up.
Julie Michelson: It's not real, you know, and it is, and, but the good news is we can also use our mindset, our mind, those same tools to shift out of the loop. And, and so, [00:57:00] and that's where I. Believe healing is becomes exponential. Um, and so I just love that, that that's where our conversation ended up and, and really appreciate not only your work and your generosity, um, but your time.
Jason Earle: Yeah, well, thank you very much. And I, and it's a pleasure to speak with, uh, first of all, a fellow, uh, New Jerseyan, uh, about this, right? Um, but also, you know, what I'm, what I'm seeing more and more of is that the, uh, providers out there who are, uh, who have taken on the, the role of, of helping people with mold and mold and lime, uh, are starting to see that this is a real, this is, this is a primary path.
Jason Earle: It's not just a, uh, an add on sort of thing. Methodology to to, to incrementally increase things. Yeah. But actually really a foundational thing that maybe we shouldn't be waiting until the end of the treatment for that. Right. Maybe we should be implementing that early. It's not an afterthought. You maybe just needs to be, [00:58:00] you know?
Jason Earle: 'cause I always say it's air, food, and attitude. Right. Love. If you really wanna get better, it's all three. You can't choose one, you can't choose two. Right. You gotta choose all three. And the order in which you do that used to be. In that it used to be air, food, and attitude, right? And now I realize this may be attitude, uh, air and food.
Jason Earle: I used to be food, air,
Julie Michelson: and attitude, and now I'm attitude. Like I totally, I actually have said like, you know, hopefully a much better coach than I used to be. And because I used to, you know, get to attitude. And mindset. And now it's like, Oh no, wait, we're going to start here. And then it'll all happen much faster.
Jason Earle: It'll happen faster and it'll be better for everybody, including the people who are not in your office. Right? Like the family will, everybody, everybody. It's that ripple
Julie Michelson: effect. That's how we change the world.
Jason Earle: That's right. That's right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: My appreciate it for everyone listening.
Julie Michelson: Remember you can get those show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living. [00:59:00] show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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Jason Earle: We are part of nature. This is all by design. And the key is that when we live in buildings where mold is growing, we get a high concentration of exposure. So we want to minimize this in buildings that we can control, but in building we can't control, we have to turn, to other tools.
Julie Michelson:[00:01:00] Welcome back to the inspired living with auto immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we are joined once again by Jason Earl, who is a man on a mission. Jason is an adoring father and an indoor air quality crusader. And he's the founder and CEO of one 800 got mold and Michael lab USA, as well as the creator of Got mold, the test kit.
Julie Michelson: Today, we are continuing our conversation from episode 149, and we're going deeper on moving from hypervigilance toward vigilance to live truly healthy lives, along with tips on just how to do that. We discuss how having chemical sensitivity can become a superpower. So if you feel like you're a canary in the coal mine, this episode is for you.
Julie Michelson: Jason, welcome back to the podcast.
Jason Earle: Great to be here.
Julie Michelson: I'm once again, [00:02:00] so excited for today's conversation and for listeners that didn't check it out, please go back and listen to episode one 49, where we talk about all the things, healthy houses, mold, mycotoxins, VOCs, what's really going on. , , but I asked Jason to return, um, so that we could go a little bit deeper into what was personally a big issue for me and what I see over and over and over again with clients.
Julie Michelson: , and it's this, I want to dig into this idea of vigilance versus hypervigilant, or maybe I should say it the other way around because usually we start with the hypervigilance and want to work our way. Toward just vigilance as a lifestyle, um, but not fear. And so I, I want to dig in a little bit about, you know, how, how do we make that transition?
Julie Michelson: What's the difference? , and what are you, what's your approach? to, [00:03:00] you know, getting just not living in fear so that we can have full healthy. If you're living in fear, you're not healthy yet. Right. So, ,let's, let's start there. But the last time I had you on, um, is kind of what inspired this part of the conversation, at least for me.
Julie Michelson: Um, because you kind of got caught in a little bit of a less vigilant than your typical state, um, in the process of a remediation. So if you're willing to share that, um, with folks, I think it's, it's also really important and fun for people to understand that your life, you know, we're always dealing with stuff.
Julie Michelson: Right. Like, and so even the mold guy needs to prevent certain things on the regular. So, um, yeah. How was your summer? What, what went on at your house?
Jason Earle: Well, [00:04:00] you know, I stepped in it, so to speak, , you know, walking down in the basement and what's that wet spot, you know? And, and why does it smell like that?
Jason Earle: And, uh, and sure enough, we had a toilet overflow. , and, um, So I had to pull out the, you know, what do I, how do I consult with myself here? You know, so, and it's always, you know, there's always so many variables and everyone's busy. And, you know, when water damage happens, it's never convenient. And when it's sewage, it's even less convenient.
Julie Michelson: There's literally never a good time to have sewage backing up into your house.
Jason Earle: No, especially not if you've got carpet and down where your
Julie Michelson: kids play in the kids
Jason Earle: play area in the gym, it can affect it. You know, it's a pathway to the laundry room. The whole thing's a mess, right? , and so the rule of thumb on this, I shouldn't say the rule of thumb, the guidance Provided in the industry standard,
Julie Michelson: which
Jason Earle: is called the IICRC S 500.
Jason Earle: IICRC is the International Institute of Cleaning and Restoration Contractors. And so this is the [00:05:00] body that, that, that, , develops and governs these, these standards of practice or standards of care for, , the cleaning and restoration industry. And so the S 500 covers water damage specifically, and it talks about the types of water you have.
Jason Earle: the quantity of water that you have, , and how long the water has been there. And those three variables, , are the driving forces behind what actions need to be taken by whom and when. And so, you know, there, there are rules there, there are, there are, there are the rules of the road. , and then you get into some professional judgment, of course, with all these things.
Jason Earle: And so, you know, there's not always a strong, it's not always a cut and dried, no pun intended, , or maybe pun intended, , cut and dried answer to some of these things. And so, you It's a, it's a, it's a genetic, , predisposition to my family. You know, I come from a family of wordsmiths. I can't help it. , so the, first rule is it revolves around clean water, gray water, or black water.
Jason Earle: So is the water clear? Did it come from a [00:06:00] sink? , was it gray, which means it's got some nutrition. So it might be from like a washing machine where there's, or, , movement of water through the foundation where there's got some dirt in it and stuff, but it's not. Really clearly feculent, you know, I mean, sure got a feces in it.
Jason Earle: , and then the third, which is black water is this is sewage or river water or ocean water, where there's a lot of nutrition that can support bacterial growth, notice I said bacterial, right? Yes. Uh, fungal growth, water. That's all you need. Great. Black doesn't matter. Water of any sort. You got fungal growth.
Jason Earle: Give it a couple of days. How many
Julie Michelson: other things do you also have to consider? That's right.
Jason Earle: Yeah. And that's when you get into sanitization, right? Because a lot of people mistakenly think you got to kill all the mold. You don't kill the mold when it's gray, when it's clear water, you don't need to kill anything.
Jason Earle: Uh, the concern is when we have bacteria involved. And of course, with, with sewage, we've got bacteria involved, , and gray water, we've got bacteria involved. So there, there, you need to start thinking about other things. So what I wanted to do when I [00:07:00] had this, this flood came in was I wanted to buy myself some time.
Jason Earle: This is not recommended. I don't tell people to do this. This is the difference between vigilance and hypervigilance. Okay. , knowing the scope of the issue, I, I called a water damage guy. Now I'm not from here, right? So I don't have a lot of resources here yet. I haven't had to deal with this. I don't offer my services on the inspection side of things professionally here.
Jason Earle: Um, and, so as a result, you
Julie Michelson: were kind of in the same, , although educated and experienced in the same boat as anybody else. Most of us don't do prior research to find who are we going to call if we have some kind of a water disaster go on. Right. So yeah, yeah. Level playing field kind of.
Jason Earle: Yeah, no, very much so.
Jason Earle: And, and also, you know, you come, you come to this, these things with preconceived notions about how people should do things. So I, I asked if he was ICRC certified, I asked if, if he was familiar with working with people in environmental sensitivities, he said, yes. And yes. , I told him I wanted him to [00:08:00] extract the moisture from it initially.
Jason Earle: Um, and to contain the work area, , just to buy some time. ,because I didn't want to tear everything up immediately, which is, by the way, not what the standard calls for. Okay. So this is me taking a, a known risk, , and, and so
Julie Michelson: I live with a doctor and, and the way he. Treats his patients. It's not the same stuff he does.
Julie Michelson: Right. That's right. I would never tell people to do what I did. Right. Yeah.
Jason Earle: I would, I would
Julie Michelson: always
Jason Earle: do not do this at home. If you have sewage, you, you have to have it removed. The carpet has to be removed. Okay. Cause you can't clean poop from fibers. You can't do it. , but I, I knew, knew that I was in the middle of going through, I was, I was going to go through some other changes down there and I wanted to buy some time.
Jason Earle: So I wanted him to extract it, not use fans because you don't want to stir that stuff up. Yeah, we don't want to contaminate those spaces. , and then, but I did want to remove all the moisture, , and I did want to dehumidify [00:09:00] and, uh, and obviously clean all of the hard surfaces, which it sanitizes hard surfaces, which it, and so I charged him with that responsibility and then I went upstairs and, , while I was upstairs, I smelled.
Jason Earle: The smell and the smell was not the smell that everyone thinks, right. The smell was a fragrance. It was a very, very strong soapy candle like fragrance for everyone here who's listening to this. If you, if you candles are, are, are, are really no bueno in homes, period. You shouldn't be burning stuff in your house without a chimney or an exhaust fan.
Jason Earle: And so candles that have Fragrances, boy, these, the data on this, these are ugly. Aroma modulators, endocrine disruptors, cancer, carcinogens. And don't even worry about what's in the candle. Once you burn it, it's different.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: So, you know, you don't even, nobody even knows really what's being produced by those.
Jason Earle: There's a lot of unknowns and those unknowns are not good unknowns. So anyway, I smell that candle smell, [00:10:00] I agonize and, and, you know, we don't have any fragrances in our home. Right. Me either. No. No, not, nope, don't want to
Julie Michelson: now.
Jason Earle: Yeah, no, there's no appeal to it. In fact, as I, you know, clean doesn't have a smell.
Jason Earle: This is
Julie Michelson: clean,
Jason Earle: doesn't have a smell. , and if you, if you make a list of the variables that make a house healthy or unhealthy, , near the top of the list is a healthy home is odorless. Yep. That means it doesn't smell like. New home. It doesn't smell like a fresh coat of paint. It doesn't smell like new car air, fresher.
Jason Earle: It doesn't smell like spring Irish, spring , right? Or a new car or any of those things. If you walk into a house and it has an odor of any kind, right? , that is working against you. in the overall scheme of things in terms of the, the health of the home. So, , when I smelled that smell, I, it was like everything I'd worked for, for all these years to have a pristine, , chemical free environment was, was shattered.
Jason Earle: So I went down and [00:11:00] boy, it was so strong. And I stopped the guy and I said, listen, I don't know what this is, but you know, this is, this is not in the, this is not, this doesn't fall within the parameters of what we initially discussed. He said, wow, I got to do something about this. The, the. The, the, the fecal smell.
Jason Earle: No, you don't. , that's not what I didn't ask. It wasn't part of the smell. , you know, anyway, , long story short, we ended up having to, uh, extract that as best we could. , and then ultimately, you know, we, I ended up having to. To really hold his feet to the fire on the, give me the name of the chemical that was being used.
Jason Earle: Took me days to get that, by the way, the SDS sheets, so I could actually see what it was. And you know what it was, the irony of it was, is that he sent me the picture of the package and, you know, it makes the fragrance. A candle company. I'm not even kidding. Oh, come on. You can't make this stuff up. And so, and I would say, this smells like the worst soap, the worst candle, like, you know, oh, the headache.
Jason Earle: I mean, and I had a headache for
Julie Michelson: weeks. I [00:12:00] cannot even imagine because it is the one thing that I see. Still, as, as resilient as I've gotten, if I get hit with certain, and I'm sure it's whatever those come, that was that chemical combination in the, in the fragrances, man, three day migraine. It, I just can't.
Julie Michelson: So I can't imagine, you know, that, that that's in passing or at the clinic or, you know, that's not in my home. If it was in my home,
Jason Earle: Oh, it was brutal. And it would, it would catch me. I would walk past the basement stairs and the waft would hit me. And I'd have this like wave of anger. And I realized that it wasn't so much that I was angry with him.
Jason Earle: Yes, I was. But I, I looked at this man who's older and I see him doing this work without a mask on. I see him doing this, , work, not aware. Right. No idea. This is not good for his customer, but certainly he's in there with any protection, protection of his own and without the thought that he's having this highly concentrated [00:13:00] exposure , to everything, a way of a massive, disgusting chemical synthetic fragrance on top of it.
Jason Earle: And so I pulled him aside outside. I said, listen, you know, man to man, human to human, this is what I do for a living. , this will shorten your life, dude. You know, like you just have to, you have to really, I want you to be aware of this. Send me the safety data sheet. I'm going to send you the data on what's behind that,
Julie Michelson: uh,
Jason Earle: so that you might change your tact on this because, , and so that I was mad, not so much with him.
Jason Earle: I was mad at myself because I did not clearly delineate to him in explicit terms. I'm in the Midwest, by the way, everyone reads between the lines here. I don't do that. , and so, , I, I was, maybe I was hoping he would read between the lines, , but I, I was pretty clear, like, hey, listen. You know, we, we don't use chemicals, we don't use fragrances, but was I specific enough for him to realize that this is a note, there's a zero tolerance for that stuff.
Jason Earle: Right. So, so when, when bringing people into your home, , you know, I forgot to say that, right. And I educate people about this. Right. So, so the, the, the vigilance and the [00:14:00] hypervigilance here is that we can't, we can't, here's where I would say that the line might be drawn is we have to be vigilant about moisture.
Jason Earle: Control.
Julie Michelson: Mm hmm.
Jason Earle: , if you're hypervigilant about that, then you're going to lose your mind because leaks happen. Right? Right. , and so, so you can't be worried about every leak that happens, but you can be worried about how quickly you respond to it., and so that's important because the difference between 48 hours and 96 hours is moisture problem versus mold problem that changes things.
Jason Earle: So I would say hypervigilant around the 70, trying to avoid getting to the 72 hours on a water damage issue. That's worth being hypervigilant about because this will change. This will change your, your bank account balance. It will change your health profile. It may change your. The rhythm of how often you have to seek, detox protocols, health care services, whatever the case may be.
Jason Earle: Um, so, um,
Julie Michelson: And you mentioned it last time, , directly and indirectly your bank account balance, because if you do get a water exposure, a [00:15:00] flood, a leak, , whatever, insurance companies give you how long? To in order for it to be covered, 72 hours, three
Jason Earle: days, three days, and they, and they will literally get down to, you know, the minute on that stuff.
Jason Earle: So when did that leak happen? , when did your water bill start to skyrocket? Like, you know, they, you, they can track this stuff quickly. If, you know, uh, when, when was it first identified? When was the, when did the sensor start, you know, the water sensor, the, the legal arm go off, you know? I don't know.
Jason Earle: That's that they're very specific about that 72 hours. And so water damage is covered by insurance almost up to the replacement cost value of the property. Uh, whatever needs to be done with water damage, as long as it's a covered claim. In other words, it's the source of the water is something that they would insure against.
Julie Michelson: They
Jason Earle: will say, Hey, Oh, by the way, no, we don't cover movement of groundwater through ground water. We don't do acts of God. We don't cover, you know, a leak. We'll cover, we'll cover a burst pipe, but that same pipe, if [00:16:00] it had just a pinhole leak and it was just drip, drip, drip, they won't cover that. It's got to be sudden and accidental.
Jason Earle: And so if it's a sudden and accidental leak and it's, and it falls within what they call a covered peril, then, then they will give you the grace of 72 hours. And at, at 72 hours you are on your own and on top of it, they also will, will, will count that against you as a, , as a claim. Now you're wrist a claim and now you, and now you now, if you go back to them for the second time, usually they'll drop, you raise your rates or, and oftentimes or bump you into an assigned risk program.
Jason Earle: Basically, , kind of like a drunk, somebody who speeds too much, you know, insurance. Yeah, go through the roof. So, , so yeah, you gotta be super hypervigilant around 72 hours. , thank you for
Julie Michelson: explaining that a little further just cause I find it shocking, um, but then not once I think it through when I, you know, when you account for all of the types of water damage that aren't covered and, and the reality is they don't want to pay anyway.
Julie Michelson: And like you, you already mentioned, I want to [00:17:00] highlight too, You want to be handling this immediately for your health, right? And, and to avoid those bigger future problems. , I'm curious. If you think, cause you mentioned you were angry and you're a pretty chill dude. , I'm curious if part of that response and I get the genuine frustration, cause I've gone through it myself where, you know, I think I'm so careful, but I, then I don't articulate, I just, you know, we're not outwardly, especially in our own home, but you asked all the right questions.
Julie Michelson: So, You mentioned last time we were talking about like the, the, those. Connection, the olfactory senses and, , that stress response. Yes.
Jason Earle: Yes.
Julie Michelson: And we talked about, you know, the, the things that can trigger that. And I know for me, fragrance does that.
Jason Earle: Yes.
Julie Michelson: Right. So I, I mean, I think that may, to me, I can almost feel that for you [00:18:00] of, I don't have a basement, but if I did and that, I, I would be like zero to like a million like that.
Julie Michelson: , and so I just wanted to mention that because I, I think it is part of the conversation, right? We're going to talk about how do we not live in fear because certain things are going to trip us immediately into stress and, and fear and stress live in the same place.
Jason Earle: Yeah. So there's the, you know, the anger.
Jason Earle: I've also, you know, at this stage of my life, I've realized that most of my outward anger is actually a reflection of some internal, , internally directed, , thing right at the world's mirror. , and so, , You know, does that highlight my, did that highlight my insecurity? Hey, you know, like, wait, I'm supposed to be, you know, right.
Jason Earle: Like, so, so, you know, in all candor, was that like a, , was that a, , a shot to my, my professional, uh, professionalism or, you know, competence, you know, so I'm sure my, my ego didn't like that, right. And then [00:19:00] also my kids play down there. So now I've got a real sort of existential, you know, , this is what I do.
Jason Earle: If I, if my knowledge and experience isn't useful to protect my own family, then for what, only helping others, what am I doing here? , so there's that and then, , and then also to your point, and I was going to go there too. So thank you. The, as we mentioned in our last discussion, the, we have these amazing sensors in our face.
Jason Earle: , everyone, well, you're familiar with your eyes and your nose, right? Those are the pretty amazing sensors, but we have nerves in our face That are known as the trigeminal nerve, the cranial nerves, and they have nerve endings in the eyes, mouth, and jaw, and they are, traditionally associated with pain, cold, and, and, and heat, pain, heat, and cold sensing, , somatosensory is what they call it, but they, they, they also have this amazing chemosensory, meaning chemical sensory, chemosensory.
Jason Earle: And they can pick up and they do pick up compounds specifically VOCs, , and most fragrances [00:20:00] are, or have, are VOC based. And, they can pick up these compounds. At very, very low concentrations in the parts per billion range, , which is the equivalent of like a 55 gallon drum, right? So like really tiny concentrations, and below the odor threshold.
Jason Earle: So you don't even need to be able to smell. Some VOCs don't even have an odor, but still can trigger, uh, the trigeminal nerve irritation, which is what it's, what's, what it's known as. And that irritation will then. Send a signal to the brain, , through this very high speed, it goes straight back. I mean, with nerve endings that are about this thick, , with nerve channels rather go back, back about this thick and, can trigger cytokine.
Jason Earle: Storms and now
Julie Michelson: people are familiar with,
Jason Earle: right, right. Now they're, in vogue now. not to say that you want them, , but most people are familiar with the term and by the way, which is the same, , inflammatory signal that, , Lyme disease, for example, [00:21:00] triggers as well as mold exposure.
Jason Earle: So you end up with basically like a tractor trailer, loads of. Chemical signals going down a one lane road. Yeah. And, and if you've already got that signal being, sent through your system because of Lyme or mold or any combination of other inflammatory conditions, then you end up with too many of those vehicles on one very narrow road.
Jason Earle: And so then you end up with this, you know, this over overwhelm in the system overwhelm. and then all these other things pop up to the surface, right. Autoimmune, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, , The fascinating part about this, and there are many, many pieces that are fascinating about the whole trigeminal nerve piece, because what we're seeing now is that this, what we call toxicity, is more than likely, in many cases, trigeminal nerve irritation and an inflammatory response, more response to a toxic compound, but not necessarily toxicity.
Jason Earle: System. Right.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: Big difference. Right. There
Julie Michelson: Yeah, go.
Jason Earle: Yeah. And then, and then let's circle back on that because the other, because what happens also is interesting is that [00:22:00] there's some studies that show that anxiety actually makes the trigeminal nerve more sensitive or more active. And so
Julie Michelson: hypervigilant, if you're anxious.
Jason Earle: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: It's all
Jason Earle: the nervous system. We, we've told what we're talking about. There's a thing about psychosomatic illness, which is it's in your head. This is like a really insulting thing to people that are chemically sensitive. Right. But, but if I say psychophysiological, then we're, we're actually saying the same thing to a large degree.
Jason Earle: But what we're saying is it's not in your head. Well, it's in your brain, but it's not in your mind. And I think that's the distinction, right? This is your nervous system, , overreacting or hyper being hyper hyper vigilant. and so you end up with this, This distinction between it's all in your head.
Jason Earle: In other words, you can't, you're thinking, you're thinking, thinking versus it's in your head. In other words, in your brain, in your nervous system. And that's, that's, I think, an important distinction. And so you end up with this negative loop or this vicious cycle of, uh, anxiety [00:23:00] causing a hypersensitive, uh, you know, trigeminal response, which then triggers all these adrenal, uh, adrenal, , overflows.
Jason Earle: And then you end up with more anxiety and then you end up with, uh, you know, this, this entire, uh, incredible loop. And so how do you, how do you deal with that? Well, learning how to get your nervous system under control, uh, through somatic work and through. Meditation and breathing breath work, and also, you know, certain herbs and, and, and, and minerals and all the things that you can do to just learn how to calm your nervous system down on a proactive basis.
Jason Earle: So that when these things come up, which they will, uh, your body and your mind are in alignment to say, Hey, we got this. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
Julie Michelson: which, and this is the big takeaway for everyone who's listening today, no matter where else this conversation goes. Um, because that is. always the point of these conversations is we can retrain the brain and the nervous system.
Julie Michelson: We can heal. We can become less [00:24:00] sensitive. We can break the patterns, create new patterns, um, which doesn't mean we're then immune to that physiological response because it's a physiological response. It's a protective mechanism. And it is physical. Fascinating as humans that we're, I don't even know how this happened and maybe you have some theories, that when we think of, of how intentional we have to be to avoid fragrance and limit our VOC exposure.
Julie Michelson: In today's world, right? Like how come we have lost that connection with clean? Doesn't have a smell, right? Like clean. Doesn't mean it smells like something for months and months. Therefore it must be really clean. Like we're so far away from life in nature.
Jason Earle: Totally.
Julie Michelson: That that, of course, so many of us had have [00:25:00] gotten kind of caught in that loop, whether it whatever the initial triggers were, , I think I don't remember if I mentioned when we were recording or not recording.
Julie Michelson: I know when I had a mold inspector come through the house and and , actually, it was the remediation specialist who came who came and he asked me, , You know, if I had, what, how did he word it though? , but basically we were talking and I was asking questions not related to why I, I, you know, other things in the house, right?
Julie Michelson: Like other, the vigilance. So yeah, I had this guy who knew what he was doing. and he just looked at me and he was like, you know, what's your diagnosis? And I said, oh, I don't, I don't have a diagnosis. You know, at this point I was already healed and I don't care to have a diagnosis. and he was like, but you sound, I was like, I'm, I'm very chemically sensitive.
Julie Michelson: Right. Doesn't matter how I got there. And, and, you know, yes, I'm less. So I'm more [00:26:00] resilient. I bounce back quicker. but I still want to protect myself from all of these things. Like you don't have to be bed bound. To be wise, to protect yourself from these exposures.
Jason Earle: , yeah. Well, there's a couple of things that, that brings to mind.
Jason Earle: First of all, the canaries in the coal mine, which is what we're often referred
Julie Michelson: to
Jason Earle: as, there's a, an. Well, I'm going to ask, I was asthmatic as a kid too, right. As, as, as, as most people have heard my story are fully aware of, , severely asthmatic. And, and so I was shy about that because it was perceived back then as a weakness, like the run to the litter, like the last kid that's going to, so most of the people, my people, I never brought my inhaler out, you know, it was always kind of like, that was a secret.
Jason Earle: Most of my friends don't even know that I was asthmatic, but just kind of wow. Now, uh, but, uh, but the, I
Julie Michelson: say, wow, because I know how sick you got. Yeah. Right. So that was the wow. Yeah.
Jason Earle: It was not apparent in middle school, which is when things really transitioned from me anyway. Yeah. because I [00:27:00] moved out of that moldy house.
Julie Michelson: Well, and so much of what my experience, your experience, listeners experience with overcoming illness is it's not visible to the outside world anyway. Right. Like
Jason Earle: disabilities. They
Julie Michelson: are. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Earle: So The thing that comes to mind is that I thought long believed that that was a weakness. And as I got into the industry and I began trying to help, , people navigate this before I really understood how to navigate it.
Jason Earle: I also kind of had that feeling when I was in homes that people were sort of less than, even though I was one of them. And I kept thinking, gosh, you know, like I just really wanted to help them from, from that place of. I don't want to say pity, but you know, compassion, empathy. Yeah. And then, and then something shifted inside of me, uh, about 10 years into this, uh, this journey, which was that, wait a second, the things that they're sensitive to are bad for everybody.
Jason Earle: So wait a second,
Julie Michelson: this is a weakness, this is a superpower. Intelligence that people, other [00:28:00] people have lost touch with. This is a
Jason Earle: superpower. It's a strength. And it, and it doesn't feel like it. And by the way, most of the, if you, if you watch like Marvel and you know, my kids are that age now where they're starting to, the super superheroes are, they, they have these super powers, right.
Jason Earle: But they almost always have some, some Achilles heel, some weirdness and oftentimes they're not kind of socially acceptable, right. They're kind of nerds or, you know, or they're, you know, they're a little bit. They're, they're on the periphery, you know, so society, because their strength, their superpower actually comes with this other side to it.
Jason Earle: Right. Which is this, this perceived, you know, uh, other otherness. Right. Otherness.
Julie Michelson: I like that.
Jason Earle: And, and so the, so I, I started looking at the saying, man, this is, this is actually really something that needs to be celebrated. And then, and because, you know, if you've got one person like that in a family of five, that person's actually picking up the toxin before anyone else and then it being able to a take action to avoid it for themselves, then reducing the [00:29:00] likelihood of additional long term health consequences, but then also being able to, to, you know, To, to make that change for the benefit benefit of their family.
Jason Earle: So I, I started feeling like not bad for them,, and for myself, but saying, shoot, you know, like we need to start boosting these people in the sense of like, Hey, listen, this is good news. You know, like now the question is, how do you take that sensitivity and, and reframe it, which is kind of what we're talking about now into this strength.
Jason Earle: And this often happens when you get a remediation, by the way, where a remediation gets affected, the person who is the most sensitive gets better. And then suddenly the other four people who didn't think they were sick suddenly are sleeping through the night. They're not, they're not blowing their nose every 15 minutes.
Jason Earle: They're not, you know, having emotional dysregulation at every, at the drop of a, of a, of a hat. So like, you know, suddenly those people realize that. That their baseline idea of health had been shifted such so low that they thought that was normal. They thought they were okay, but suddenly now they're better.
Jason Earle: That can heal the whole family. And that also gives credence to the sensitive person who now is the sort of [00:30:00] now they're there. They're the mold dog.
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Jason Earle: right there. They're the leader of the environmental crusade. And, and so, you know, it gives them that sense of purpose instead of this, this, this thing where they feel like they have to suppress that, that those signals, , and suppress that, their responses and reactions , to their own family.
Jason Earle: And so, so I, the, the beginning of the reframing, I think when it comes from hypervigilance to vigilance is around that getting and being validated, I think helps a lot. and so, you know, being hypervigilant is kind of like, you know, when you're never being listened to, you kind of have to yell and scream all the time because no one listens to you otherwise.
Jason Earle: And so if you find suddenly you're validated and you go, Hey, it doesn't work for me, you know, like maybe, you know, maybe we should make an adjustment here. You can start to tamp that down and then start focusing on what's practical. Yeah. What's, what's, what's, what's attainable. , and then what's also measurable to some degree, even though a lot of this is like
Julie Michelson: smart goals.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Yeah. They're basically smart goals. and you know, the realistic part is also really important [00:31:00] because you know, if you can't get the contractor out because you live in a, you know, you have to surrender to some of these things and you have to. Right. You know, you, you have to also become self-empowered enough to be able to take certain actions on your own, and not necessarily have to turn everything over to, to a third party.
Jason Earle: and that means getting educated around this stuff, which is what this conversation is really all about.
Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And, and ultimately that education lead is, the first and the biggest step to lead to the empowerment, which is why we're here. Really. That's right. Yeah. which I love, and again, I wanna highlight like, hey.
Julie Michelson: Even Jason, you know, because there is, there is also this, like, you were dealing with a professional who had the knowledge and certifications you, you would recommend people look for, right? There is the kind of that fine line too of assuming everybody else is an idiot, right? Like, like, so we're going to have the coulda woulda shoulda happen sometimes [00:32:00] where I mean, even I keep even at the clinic.
Julie Michelson: I haven't. Made it a thing. And now I will because I feel empowered from this conversation. I know there are a lot of functional medicine clinics out there that ask you, please do not come to the clinic with any fragrance on whatsoever. And we've never made it a rule. And two days ago, I was, I was at the clinic.
Julie Michelson: I was working. I was not working in that moment. I wasn't with, a client and, but I was in my office and one of the girls came up and she said, I'm shutting your door because You're going to get sick, you know, I, the interesting thing is this is actually a new employee doesn't even know me well. Um, but I guess has heard me kind of scurry away or avoid certain people if they come in wearing, and I'm going to say fragrance instead of perfume is sometimes it's, it's a hand cream.
Julie Michelson: It's a, you mentioned candles., [00:33:00] I, we had an employee and it's interesting because I never noticed it on her person. I inherited a computer bag and a, and a, um, a bank deposit envelope holder, one of those little like foamy. Synthetic thingies, um, from her that I literally had the, the, the deposit book, I was able to, it was an eight to eventually just even be able to the, the computer.
Julie Michelson: I had to get rid of so not even just the computer case the laptop and I'm and she has a little boy and I'm thinking what must her home smell and it was the can't whatever you want to call whatever that means to you that candle fragrance that plug in fragrance the I cannot even I tried for to get this laptop to not.
Julie Michelson: I mean, it was the innards of the laptop that I've never [00:34:00] experienced anything like that before. , but so you have, thank you. You, this is, you know, a personal win. You've empowered me to like, no, I am going to train patients and let them know that they are not welcome in the clinic with fragrance on. And it can start a great conversation to educate them as to why, right?
Julie Michelson: Why?
Jason Earle: It's not uncommon though, by the way. I know, , Dr. Ray, who passed away a couple, a couple of years ago, had very clear, all over the place, you know, on the emails, you know, you know what I mean? Like literally, like if you're going to,
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: You know, and by the way, you know, if you're coming in here for environmental health and you're still using that stuff, you know, most people are
Julie Michelson: until they learn, right.
Julie Michelson: Which is, again, is why we're, we're talking and encouraging, like educate yourself. Um, and. It's okay if people who don't understand get offended, because I've been through this. [00:35:00] Whereas I'm not saying you smell bad or I don't like your choice of scent. That has nothing to do with it. you know, it's that I go into that stress response state and I know where it can lead.
Julie Michelson: , and I know the impact.
Jason Earle: Oh, well, this brings up to two different little anecdotes that would be since we're talking about, you know, how Jason moves through the world when it comes to this stuff. , Number one is, , Uber's, and Airbnb's. Oh, can we,
Julie Michelson: can we start an Uber, a travel, Uber slash Airbnb fragrance free company?
Julie Michelson: I think it would do really well.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Or, or how about this, like a petition, like change. org or something like that for Uber and Airbnb and say, Hey guys, listen, you know, there's a big population who, by the way, like to travel and that are that have to travel for business that are affluent and that are aware.
Jason Earle: And you don't want to lose this group. Right. Uh, [00:36:00] and so, yeah, when are they going to
Julie Michelson: make it, you know, you could do share a ride. You could do XL, you could do all the different, make the choices on Uber. Why can't you do fragrance free? I have gotten out of a car. You know, because windows down wasn't enough.
Julie Michelson: , one time when I was in Calvin, actually, I think it was the trip where I met you the first time. , and, and I, we were in Beverly Hills and I literally, I was with a friend of mine who was as equally chemically sensitive and on, on, you know, the, the, the good end of her healing journey. And we just both looked at each other and I was like, actually pull over.
Julie Michelson: I couldn't do it.
Jason Earle: Yeah. No, it's not uncommon. And I find that it is, uh, It's a 90 percent of the Uber's that I'm in. Uh, and it's not,
Julie Michelson: it's a, we, it seems to be, I mean, this particular one, I think we counted had five air fresheners in it. Like what to what? What are you doing? This smells that bad. Yeah. And, and like you said, even with the poop, like any fragrance [00:37:00] on top of another smell, you just smell both.
Julie Michelson: It's like the, you know, the early teenage boy who still has B. O. buddies. It's wearing, you know, acts or whatever. And it's like, Oh, two, two bad, two bad smells. Yeah. No, we
Jason Earle: don't, we don't need that. You go and you smell the sweat socks and the, and the, and the, so I, you know, I stopped just short of bringing a, you know, a, a carbon mask with me, uh, because I mostly just open the windows.
Julie Michelson: you wish you, you did bring the mask?
Jason Earle: Yeah. And I, and I, I have no, I've been very tempted. I mean, I've got, you know, I, I, I. I'm just so reluctant because I still have, I'm still a little sheepish around, you know, I still want, I don't want to offend them, uh, but at the same time, you know what I mean, there's a certain point where they're, they're, so I've actually, I've actually shared, research with drivers and about fragrances and how it, you know, their, their hormone modulators and they have a genetic impact.
Jason Earle: And, you know, these are, these are really significant. They have long term. Health impacts and short term health [00:38:00] impacts and the long term health impacts. The epigenetics on fragrances is emerging. Go, go to chat GPT and, and look up epigenetics and fragrances. And you'll be like, Whoa, the, our sense of smell triggers, or I should say that our response to odors has massive.
Jason Earle: epigenetic implications that are just now being explored. So I'm not going to roll the dice on that stuff. I want to, I want to minimize exposure to unknown compounds that are, by the way, not just a moat, not just triggering, uh, on an epigenetic basis, but also there's, there, there's associative conditioning on that stuff, which is part of the reason why odors and fragrances are so ubiquitous, right?
Jason Earle: That's the branding thing for, for, for companies, you know, and it's also. You know, so they hit you in certain emotional ways and it anchors certain emotional conditions. I don't want that stuff. That's noise, right? Right. You know, you want to
Julie Michelson: be in reality, not being manipulated by, yeah,
Jason Earle: exactly. And to be
Julie Michelson: fair, to, to acknowledge, because I had this amazing, and by having a [00:39:00] conversation, I'm the same as you, I don't want to offend anybody either, but I do want to help people.
Julie Michelson: And I want to educate people. And I was in an Uber in January, in the Phoenix area. And the Uber driver had, she had a mask on, and we started a conversation and, and I, I said, at some point, I just want to thank you for not having air fresheners in your car. Cause it was going to be like a half hour ride.
Julie Michelson: And I, again, conditioning, I have fear around getting in, you know, what am I going to be getting into when I get into an Uber? But. certain trips, it doesn't make sense to rent a car. And, and it created this wonderful, she took her mask off. She was wearing the mask to protect herself from the customers that get in the car doused with fragrance.
Jason Earle: Wow.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, because she was chemically sensitive and fighting chronic illness. And so it can't, you know, like [00:40:00] we all can have these conversations and learn to, you know, ultimately it's for our own health, but sometimes we make the changes to support other people first. And then we realize like, like you said, Oh, wow.
Julie Michelson: And I feel better. So
Jason Earle: I'll leave you with this one, one little anecdote, as it relates to, you know, pragmatism and, , vigilance, hypervigilance. , I recently went down to, Austin, Texas for, hack your health. Former KetoCon.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Jason Earle: And uh, got there kind of late, had a big setup. So I didn't get to my hotel until 11 o'clock at night.
Julie Michelson: Oh
Jason Earle: no. And I chose this hotel, because it was made of materials that do not support fungal growth that you can tell from the pictures. They didn't have wall to wall carpet. They had like a jute area rug. Good. Right. Over hard surface. Yeah. Yeah. Polish concrete floor, you know, [00:41:00] terracotta block walls, no sheet rock.
Jason Earle: Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Like all, all, all my, I want to stay there,
Julie Michelson: except I guess I don't, I'm thinking, but so far I'd be in. Yeah, no, I
Jason Earle: was in and in and nails that really, you know, really good, menu and the restaurant with like local seasonal organic stuff. And I just thought, man, this is, you know, this is where I'm going to stay, you know, every time I've been Austin, I'm thinking, I, I, I finally figured it out.
Jason Earle: I don't have to worry about Airbnb, flip a coin on the fragrances and all that kind of stuff. So I show up at, uh, and I walk in the room and boom, I mean, it's the moment I walk in, it was like getting knocked off out of my shoes with that musty smell. And it was just like, so dank and so strong and so overwhelming that, my heart sank because I realized, man, like, I don't want to move my room at 11 o'clock at night.
Jason Earle: So I called down and said, Hey, you know, I think there's a mold problem. And they're like, how do you know? And I said, do you see my email address on my Jason at gotmold. com? Yeah. Okay. Well, [00:42:00] she, Oh,
Julie Michelson: okay. Bye. Bye.
Jason Earle: So, and I found it, you know, it was in the air conditioning unit. And the thing is they cycle on and off air conditioning.
Jason Earle: Word to the wise guys, anyone who's buying an air conditioning system or running an air conditioner, it should say it should not turn off during the human months. You'd actually run on the lowest possible setting. Or 24 seven, because the moment it turns off, you get condensation inside there. And if dust is accumulated, because of course it's an air conveyance system, dust does accumulate in those things.
Jason Earle: Mold will grow on that dust. And so if you cycle on and off on a daily basis, you have mold growth every single time. And so it, and it compounds. And so you end up with this overwhelming musty smell. And they do this to save energy, right? They love to have the AC turn off. Hotels, especially if the back door opens up, right?
Jason Earle: Right. Everything gets wet. Why did everything get wet? Well, because now the air movement has stopped and the, and the dehumidification has stopped.
Julie Michelson: And
Jason Earle: so that's what an air conditioner really is. It's a air conditioning is not just air cooling. It's air conditioning. It's conditioning the air for heat [00:43:00] for, for temperature and humidity.
Jason Earle: And so anyway, I, I called down and they said, well, I'm sorry, Mr. Earl, but we're fully booked. , and so we cannot move you. And I thought, man, am I going to sleep on the porch outside? Cause I had a balcony. I thought all those things. And then I. Then I reeled it back in because every single time I've ever stayed in a musty hotel room, every single time, I mean, every time I end up with, night terrors.
Jason Earle: Uh, flipping and flopping around. I I can't sleep for like a minute. Sure. I'm just, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm angry. And, you know, there's just all this sort of, you know, psychophysiological response, right. And so then I, then I took a page out of, out of the primal trust. playbook, which is, you know, for anyone who's listening to this is, is interested in a neural retraining.
Jason Earle: There's DNRS, which is kind of the original method. Then there's, uh, you know, reorigin is a newer one. Uh, goop, the method is another one. My favorite is primal trust. org. Uh, Kathleen King does beautiful [00:44:00] work and it's much more affordable. And it's also much more expansive beyond the typical, just DNRS stuff.
Jason Earle: And, uh, so I, I started, I went and started the self talk. Hey, you know what? Jason. You've been, you, you do a great job. You're you're, you're super vigilant about this stuff. A little exposure is a hormetic stressor. I started selling myself. It's all good kid. You know, like you got this, you're stronger than you think you're resilient.
Jason Earle: This is a non event. If anything, you're going to get stronger from this. And so I went outside and I meditated for 10 minutes and I brought my nervous system down. My heart rate to my, my, my, my, my resting rate. Did some nice breathing, went inside, brushed my teeth, taped my mouth, went to sleep, slept all the way through the night, woke up without a single, I mean, I slept like a baby, strangely, and also didn't have puffy eyes.
Jason Earle: I didn't have all the stuff that's sort of the hallmark of me sleeping in a moldy room. [00:45:00] Didn't have any congestion. And I slept right through my nose the entire night, of course, because my mouth was taped. I had no congestion, I had no dryness, I had no headaches, I had no sleep dysregulation, emotional dysregulation.
Jason Earle: And, and I was fully rested in the morning. Um, they moved me to another room, which was just as bad, I was gonna say. And I stayed for the next two nights. And, and I was, and I did the same thing. And I had a great conference and I had, I had great mental clarity and I had all the things that are typically.
Jason Earle: Where I fail, where my body fails, uh, when I'm, when I'm exposed to mold in a significant way. And so this is not to say that you shouldn't worry about this stuff. Actually, it is to say, you shouldn't worry about it. You shouldn't worry about anything because worry doesn't change anything, but you, you, you, you, there are ways to navigate this that are not just about complete avoidance because the, and the sort of the takeaway here is that we live on planet fungi.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Jason Earle: You know, it is, it is. Mold spores are [00:46:00] ubiquitous. I mean, the, the, the, the, I dunno if I said this last time, but molds, they're kingdom fungi, mushrooms, and Yes. And, and molds produce 50 megatons of spores every year. 50 megatons is, is 20 times as much tea as is drank every year, uh, every, by the entire population, uh, of the world.
Jason Earle: Um, and so, you know, w molds, boards are ubiquitous. Mold is as ever present. So how do we, how do we really realistically, pragmatically avoid mold? We don't, uh, right. You, you can, you can minimize exposure, but the best thing is to be resilient in the presence of it. Um, and, and, and that, that is the ultimate empowerment is to realize that this is part of nature.
Jason Earle: We are part of nature. Uh, this is all by design. And the, the key is that when we live in buildings where mold is growing, we get a high concentration of exposure. So we want to minimize this in buildings that we can control, but in building we can't control, we have to turn, we have to turn to other tools.
Jason Earle: Yeah. Um, and, and we have to turn to, you know, how do we. Get our nervous system and our mindset in such a [00:47:00] way that we can be resilient and, and ultimately in some cases unaffected. And that's, what's really cool. So, uh, this is an opportunity to reframe that, that process. This is not a dose response relationship.
Jason Earle: I guess that's my point. Right? Uh, this is, this is a much more nuanced relationship we have with, with these exposures. And, and it is not nearly as sort of, uh, Newtonian that you, this exposure equals this outcome. It's not like that. Um, a lot of this has to do with the internal environment that you bring to the external environment.
Julie Michelson: I love it. I love it. I, I, on a much smaller, I mentioned, you know, the little exposures at the clinic. This is what I do. I, if I catch myself right away, because history, the old pattern, the recording in my head, you know, when I, I'm aware of an [00:48:00] exposure, you know, is the like, Oh, you know, I, I, I play the old tapes.
Julie Michelson: And so now I, it's that same, I take that moment. I reset my mindset. I do myself talk of like, I'm strong and I'm resilient and I, I don't need to be affected by this. I will not be affected by this. And I do the same thing. I remove myself. Breathe, reset nervous system, and it works, but here's the key is you have to have those tools in your toolbox.
Julie Michelson: to be able to pull them out on the spot and use them. So, yeah, yeah,
Jason Earle: you're not going to learn that while you're sitting, you can't it won't work. You can't learn that while you're sitting at, and by the way, I still, I don't really, it doesn't really, uh, work for me that well in like, uh, uh, fragrance super, because it's so overwhelming.
Jason Earle: And it literally gives me an instant headache and I go, right. You know, how many cars are there in this, uh, in the country? I don't need to be in this one. So, but hotel rooms, I can get
Julie Michelson: out of the car. [00:49:00] This room
Jason Earle: I'm in, you know, like I'm not gonna, I don't have a tent with me and, uh, and I'm not sleeping on the balcony.
Jason Earle: So, so I, I have to make the most of this. And so there's a different degree of, you know, so again, that goes back to like, you know, there's a pragmatism. And, and all of this as well, but you have to have the skills, the tools, the knowledge that do you have to practice this stuff
Julie Michelson: by the way,
Jason Earle: that's your chance to practice, you learn it and then you, then you're in it.
Jason Earle: And now that's the time to actually pull that tool out and go, okay. And I almost forgot. I almost forgot that I had the post. Sure. Because you were in a stress
Julie Michelson: response .
Jason Earle: Right. I was, I was in that, you know? Yeah. And, and, and the trigeminal nerve picks that up. I get an anxiety and say, you know, it's a
Julie Michelson: physiological response.
Julie Michelson: Yep. And I, and it, and it,
Jason Earle: it took a, an extra level, high, uh, level of, of self-awareness to realize that I was going to a place that I, that was both wanna go. That was not necess, that was not gonna be helpful. Yeah. And then, and then, and then after I got that under control and started thinking from a [00:50:00] position of love instead of fear, I, you know, that sounds woo woo, but it's really true.
Jason Earle: It's saying, you know, and I even said, I love the mold, you know, like I look at, look at what I do. Like, this is my opportunity. Um, and, and I, and I really try to give it kind of a big, loving hug and say, okay, this is a situation, you know, uh,
Julie Michelson: we've co existed for a really long time. Right. So you just told us we can't get away from it.
Julie Michelson: I know. I love that. This leads us to your opportunity to give listeners again, a step that they can take one step that they can take starting today to improve their health.
Jason Earle: Well, there's, I think, uh, the first thing, and I think I mentioned this, uh, when we, uh, when we spoke last, which was what is the, uh, number one thing you can do to improve your health is.
Jason Earle: Open your windows. Yes. Yay. That was my first. The next thing you can do, I think, is, [00:51:00] um, this is assuming that people are running air purifiers and, you know, keeping things clean and dry. Right. So the first thing is clean things, clean and dry. Um, Then open the windows. Um, and then the other thing is, is that of course, you know, and I'm not really want to pitch my, my product, but I, but I also, no, but, but I, since
Julie Michelson: I did a terrible job and we didn't even mention it, and I just assume listeners are gonna take my advice and listen to the first episode we did, but yeah.
Julie Michelson: What? Yeah, so please, ,
Jason Earle: the reason that the, the, the reason I'm in this business is 'cause of my personal issues, uh, with, with mold and, and asthma, et cetera, as a child. And then I, I got into the inspection business. Uh. 23 years ago and then realized, uh, that this is cost prohibitive for most people. Most people couldn't afford an inspection or testing, uh, by a reputable, uh, qualified, uh, inspector.
Jason Earle: And so, uh, I decided to put a dream team of scientists and engineers together to create an affordable solution for everybody, which, which is, uh, what keeps me busy, [00:52:00] uh, these days. And so, uh, so we, we launched on got mold. com, uh, about two years ago with the highest quality at home test kit. Uh, on the market uses a device called spore traps, which capture airborne particles, including spores.
Jason Earle: Uh, and we partnered with the number one lab in the world, uh, Eurofins for the highest quality analysis possible. And so, uh, using our Gottmull test kit, uh, you can test your air with the same device as the professionals use, but without the cost or hassle associated with trying to find a higher one. Um, and so, uh, you can learn more about that at gottmull.
Jason Earle: com slash inspire. Which is a welcome page that we created for all of your listeners here. Um, and, uh, and there you will see that, uh, there's an ebook there, which I highly recommend,
Julie Michelson: uh,
Jason Earle: I highly recommend everybody who's curious about this or concerned about an issue, especially if you're not ready to hire an inspector, read that ebook, it's about 40 pages of inspection checklists and FAQs.
Jason Earle: It's not 40 pages of reading. So don't, don't sweat that, but you'll get a quick, you'll get a quick write down on the do's and [00:53:00] don'ts. Uh, again, there's, it's totally free and we get tremendous feedback on this. People tell us we should charge for this actually.
Julie Michelson: Yes.
Jason Earle: And, uh, and so, so once you've gone through, it also gives you the ability to do an inspection in your own house with checklists.
Jason Earle: And like I said, you can, you can do your own quick analysis.
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Jason Earle: empowerment. And, you know, now, now, you know what to look for outside and you know what to look for inside and all those things. And that's really our driving force here is education, because this is something it's like teach a man to fish versus, you know, fish for him or her, or, or teach them.
Jason Earle: I much prefer the latter. And. And then also anyone who's interested in a test kit can use the code Inspire 10 for a 10% discount@gotmold.com. So you can either, you know, use that on the website or you can go through the welcome page, like I said, got mold.com/inspire. Now quickly, the test kit allows you to test your air and up to three rooms.
Jason Earle: Um, the. The results come back within three business days once the samples are at the lab. So you get the kit, you collect the samples, you send them in and the whole thing is automated. [00:54:00] Um, and then once you own the kit, you get to keep the pump and the pump, the air sampling pump allows you to retest again for less.
Jason Earle: So you can get refills, uh, you can just amazing rooms for 50 less for each, uh, each time you chose to use it. And then where you can share the pump with friends, which is a very common thing. People share it with their friends, with their colleagues. You know, if they're a teacher, they serve with other teachers and schools and tenants Which just goes back
Julie Michelson: to your mission and your integrity, right?
Julie Michelson: Of the whole purpose is to get these quality tests into the hands of people that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. And they're using, as people have been for a long time, you know, tests that are just not. Effective. They're not good. They're not reliable. So,
Jason Earle: um, yeah, they're very reliable for generating results that are alarming and fearful, uh, or fear, you know, like, I mean, but they're not leading to
Julie Michelson: wellness.
Jason Earle: They're not, they're leading to, they're perpetuating the fear, that fear [00:55:00] anxiety loop, uh, that we talk about so much on this, on this podcast. Um, and so, you know, what we're trying to do is give people the knowledge that they need. To be able to make better decisions.
Julie Michelson: Um,
Jason Earle: and so the combination of knowledge and data, um, is really what we're all about.
Jason Earle: And so, uh, so hopefully, uh, some of your listeners will find some, uh, some help there also. And then in terms of like getting in touch with me, uh, we are, uh, We're pretty active on Instagram these days, uh, gotmold on Instagram. So I have an ask Jason anything question, a post that's pinned so people can ask questions there.
Jason Earle: And I'm usually pretty good about responding to that quickly. Uh, and then we also take, you know, questions on our homepage, which is, you know, at the bottom, there's a contact form. I don't answer all of them, but I see them all. Uh, and they all get answered, you know, our, our customer service is probably what we're best known for.
Jason Earle: So, um, so you can go to gotmold. com and just drop a question in there if anybody has any questions.
Julie Michelson: Which is amazing. Jason, thank you so very much for coming back and, and continuing the conversation. [00:56:00] And I just, I love, you know, even though poop happens, sometimes we can choose how we handle it. That's right.
Julie Michelson: And, and I am. Definitely, I'm going to steal the, the psychophysiological response versus, you know, because our, our, our biological response, um, because people tend to, when we talk about psychosomatic, or when we talk about mindset. Um, re even reframing, there's certain things where, you know, those words have been misunderstood, even if they're technically correct, uh, to mean it's all in my head, as in, I made it up.
Julie Michelson: It's not real, you know, and it is, and, but the good news is we can also use our mindset, our mind, those same tools to shift out of the loop. And, and so, [00:57:00] and that's where I. Believe healing is becomes exponential. Um, and so I just love that, that that's where our conversation ended up and, and really appreciate not only your work and your generosity, um, but your time.
Jason Earle: Yeah, well, thank you very much. And I, and it's a pleasure to speak with, uh, first of all, a fellow, uh, New Jerseyan, uh, about this, right? Um, but also, you know, what I'm, what I'm seeing more and more of is that the, uh, providers out there who are, uh, who have taken on the, the role of, of helping people with mold and mold and lime, uh, are starting to see that this is a real, this is, this is a primary path.
Jason Earle: It's not just a, uh, an add on sort of thing. Methodology to to, to incrementally increase things. Yeah. But actually really a foundational thing that maybe we shouldn't be waiting until the end of the treatment for that. Right. Maybe we should be implementing that early. It's not an afterthought. You maybe just needs to be, [00:58:00] you know?
Jason Earle: 'cause I always say it's air, food, and attitude. Right. Love. If you really wanna get better, it's all three. You can't choose one, you can't choose two. Right. You gotta choose all three. And the order in which you do that used to be. In that it used to be air, food, and attitude, right? And now I realize this may be attitude, uh, air and food.
Jason Earle: I used to be food, air,
Julie Michelson: and attitude, and now I'm attitude. Like I totally, I actually have said like, you know, hopefully a much better coach than I used to be. And because I used to, you know, get to attitude. And mindset. And now it's like, Oh no, wait, we're going to start here. And then it'll all happen much faster.
Jason Earle: It'll happen faster and it'll be better for everybody, including the people who are not in your office. Right? Like the family will, everybody, everybody. It's that ripple
Julie Michelson: effect. That's how we change the world.
Jason Earle: That's right. That's right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: My appreciate it for everyone listening.
Julie Michelson: Remember you can get those show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living. [00:59:00] show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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My Guest For This Episode
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Jason Earle
Jason Earle is a man on a mission. An adoring father, incurable entrepreneur and indoor air quality crusader, he is founder & CEO of 1-800-GOT-MOLD?
and MycoLab USA, and the creator of the GOT MOLD?® Test Kit. Allergic to nearly everything in his environment as a child, Jason's asthma was so severe that he was initially diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. Absenteeism due to a battle with Lyme disease, and his mother's suicide, ultimately led him to drop out at 16 and get a full-time job at the local gas station. This is where most stories end, but in an almost miraculous turn of events, from a chance meeting, in mere months, Jason found himself working on Wall Street. Within a year he had unwittingly become the youngest licensed stockbroker in history at age 17, resulting in a Guinness World Record, going on to enjoy a nine-year career. It's a story you will have to hear for yourself.
and MycoLab USA, and the creator of the GOT MOLD?® Test Kit. Allergic to nearly everything in his environment as a child, Jason's asthma was so severe that he was initially diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. Absenteeism due to a battle with Lyme disease, and his mother's suicide, ultimately led him to drop out at 16 and get a full-time job at the local gas station. This is where most stories end, but in an almost miraculous turn of events, from a chance meeting, in mere months, Jason found himself working on Wall Street. Within a year he had unwittingly become the youngest licensed stockbroker in history at age 17, resulting in a Guinness World Record, going on to enjoy a nine-year career. It's a story you will have to hear for yourself.
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