Episode 113
Michelle Veneziano:Harnessing the Wisdom of Ancient Healing with Dr. Michelle Veneziano
Michelle Veneziano:
Harnessing the Wisdom of Ancient Healing with Dr. Michelle Veneziano
In this episode, we are delighted to have Dr. Michelle Veneziano join us as we delve into the fascinating world of osteopathy, the integration of the physical body and the subtle body, and the concept of heart body coherence.
First Aired on: Nov 13, 2023
Episode 113
Michelle Veneziano:Harnessing the Wisdom of Ancient Healing with Dr. Michelle Veneziano
Michelle Veneziano:
Harnessing the Wisdom of Ancient Healing with Dr. Michelle Veneziano
In this episode, we are delighted to have Dr. Michelle Veneziano join us as we delve into the fascinating world of osteopathy, the integration of the physical body and the subtle body, and the concept of heart body coherence.
First Aired on: Nov 13, 2023
Table of Contents:
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In this episode:
Dr. Veneziano’s Healing Philosophy:
- Learning Through Health Challenges: Her personal health struggles with autoimmune responses during pregnancy led her to trust her body’s intuition over traditional medical advice.
- Physical and Subtle Body Integration: Dr. Veneziano’s experiences with fatigue and her own healing journey revealed the importance of integrating the physical body with the electrical aspects for optimal health.
Osteopathy Explained:
- Origins of Osteopathy: Dr. Veneziano narrates the story of osteopathy’s founder, Andrew Taylor Still, and the evolution of the osteopathic profession.
- The Distinction Between DOs and MDs: The discussion covers the confusion surrounding DOs (Doctors of Osteopathy) and MDs (Doctors of Medicine).
Dr. Veneziano’s Approach to Healing and Education:
- Teaching Self-Healing: Dr. Veneziano’s shift from just treating patients to also teaching them self-healing techniques to maintain their treatments.
- Mirror Neurons and Transmitting Energy: The concept of mirroring and how we exchange information on a deeply connected level.
The Essence of Osteopathy:
- Connecting with Subtle Body Energy: The pivotal experience with a private patient highlights the power of connecting with the subtle body’s consciousness.
- Integral Healing: The importance of activating the ‘pilot light’ in the healing process and how it impacts overall wellness.
- Emphasis on Embodiment and Presence: Exploring osteopathy and its approach to treating and activating the body’s inherent healing mechanisms.
Key Takeaways
- Integrating Healing Practices: Healing is accessible through alignment with natural forces and is essential in the face of modern world stressors.
- Osteopathy’s Impact: A balanced physical and subtle body system leads to profound healing and shifts in health, transcending diagnoses.
- Self-Sufficiency in Healing: Dr. Veneziano advocates for patients to cultivate their own energy and coherence to create personal healing rather than relying solely on practitioners.
- Intrinsic Human Connection: The innate exchange of information and energy, facilitated through practices like osteopathy, can lead to transformative healing experiences.
Resources and Tools Mentioned
- Flow is Medicine: Dr. Michelle Veneziano’s website focused on osteopathic healing and integrative medicine.
- Community Building: A community for healthcare providers and patients to foster an environment of shared growth and learning in healing practices.
Other Resources:
Other Resources:
Connect with Michelle Veneziano
Connect with Michelle Veneziano
Watch this interview:
Watch this interview:
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the inspire and living with auto immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michaelson. And today we are joined by Dr. Michelle Veneziano, founder of flowismedicine. com. In our conversation, we discuss osteopathy, the integration of the physical body and the subtle body and heart body coherence.
Dr. Veneziano gives us practices to enhance our capability [00:01:00] for healing as she reinforces that healing is accessible through alignment with the natural world.
Dr. Veneziano, welcome to the podcast.
Michelle Veneziano: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Julie Michelson: I am really excited for this conversation. And I know listeners are going to get so much out of it. I always love to have you share a little bit of your journey. First, before we get into the rest of our content, um, how, how did you get to, I know before I hit record, you were like, I'm really an educator.
That's, that's how, what I am. So tell, tell me a little bit of your story,
Michelle Veneziano: Oh, goodness. Okay. Well, I feel like my calling to medicine was just that I almost remember as a teenager, not really being clear about what I was my purpose. And then I, I remember the moment I was actually walking across the courtyard at my high [00:02:00] school. And it's almost like I got hit by lightning or something.
And a voice said, you're going to be a doctor. And I didn't really know what that meant, but it's really been quite a spiritual journey. And, um, I was not in my body. That's the defining overarching thing. I did not know that my moving toward medicine was going to be a journey of getting into my body.
Didn't even know what that meant. Uh, struggled a lot in school. With health stuff early on and, you know, at the time I didn't realize that that was my learning path and that it was almost a necessary, uh, you know, trial by fire to really deeply learn what healing and what, um, an awakening journey, a consciousness journey is really all about.
So I had all the things. I was sensitive, right? Nobody gets a lightning bolt and has a [00:03:00] conversation with God if they're not sort of sensitive and kind of tuned into something larger. And so all the things, you know, all the things that kind of manifest when a person is incompatible with a concretized culture, I, my system had a really hard time.
And I ended up having a pretty massive, uh, autoimmune response when in my pregnancy. And there was an embodiment piece to that because my TSH was actually normal. I'm talking about a thyroid condition, a thyroid stimulating hormone. And I And I had a sense that I knew something was not right. Something's not right.
I knew it was my thyroid. I was already tapping into my intuition before even really knowing what that was. And so I asked for more labs and my antibodies were through the roof. Isn't that so interesting? [00:04:00] So in that sense, in that sense, I began to, um, No, I just, I knew that I needed to think deeper than the cookbook version of how you approach any, uh, condition.
And I learned to trust my body's knowing over what the books say. So that was, that was a wonderful launching pad. So my background is family medicine. I was a hospitalist for a period of time and that was, I was part of it. I actually remember one shift where I had ridiculously high patient load and I just didn't really breathe or drink water or take breaks and I just thought I can do this, you know, I had been doing it for
Julie Michelson: trained to do this.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. And then my body was like, uh, yeah, no. And I literally went from. Feeling like, um, a superhero that could do anything to the complete [00:05:00] opposite. And I had a series of years where I just really struggled with fatigue. I thought I had, I knew I had mold illness because I was living here in Marin County.
And it, you know, there's a reason we have the sourest sourdough in the world. It's a place where, uh, if you're, if you're not robust, you. It's, uh, you know, people travel to dry climates to have a relief from environmental burden. And so here was the perfect place for the perfect storm. Uh, and then that shows up as fill in the blank, you know, maybe you have lime, maybe you have, um, uh, yeah, so all of that, the whole load that when I hear people talk about it, I'm like, okay, we're in this territory.
The way I approach it is. We need to get back in our bodies because once we do that, we literally have stronger electrical flow and can hold coherence and stability in [00:06:00] our nervous systems, both the physical and subtle body. And I think it's a really optimistic view because the burdens of the world, the stress, the environmental toxins, the, you know, people's limited availability to nutritious, you know, clean food, clean water, clean air is not moving in a great direction, right?
So. We, I see that all in a sort of meta sense as a calling to really step into our power and literally cultivate the ability to radiate personal, our personal energy to almost create a force field and to create, uh, Coherence in the body. And of course, the heart is so related to all of this. I hope we get to talk about that, where we're actually transmitting into the world, something really of a higher level of awareness and, [00:07:00] you know, connection to nature and connection.
Thank you. Um, almost like we learn from one another and in neuroscience, we talk so much about mirroring and mirror neurons and without really understanding the mechanism of how we, uh, exchange information. And it's, it's such so deep and such a beautiful topic. So. Yeah, I'm all about that. And the transmitting of those ideas and simple ways that hopefully I will manage to do with you today.
Um, so I have a story that I think is really, um, Beautiful way to illustrate this idea of embodiment and integration between the physical and electrical aspects of ourselves. So early in my training, I, um, just, you know, took the [00:08:00] opportunity to work with patients when I could on this level of working with the electrical body, which was quite a new concept for me early in my training, however.
I sat with masters and I believe I received a mirroring experience with my mentors where whatever it was that allowed them to connect with the, uh, consciousness or, uh, subtle body, um, expression in patients. It's almost like a channel on the, on a dial. I managed to touch what that was and my system registered and remembered what that was.
So I really, really didn't know much more than that. I would call it some ability to touch deep presence and stillness. And I had a, a woman I had one amazing treatment experience with one of my first private patients while I was in my family practice residency. [00:09:00] Uh, I don't know if I'll tell that story now, but once we had this, whatever magic happens when you touch into that thing.
Uh, he said, would you please treat my roommate? She's, uh, really in trouble. She's a, she's a dance, she's his dance partner. And was very physical and then suddenly this whole like whole horrendous body pain she, she had a rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis and she had these films that looked terrible and she thought her whole life was over and this was a bit of a complexity outside of what I would say my expertise was at the time.
non existent. But, and I said, you know, I'll try, I'll try and see if I can connect with her where, it's like when you sit in that stillness and you're connected to the earth and the cosmos and you [00:10:00] just feel so integrated with reality and then the patient comes in and they're not, you can't feel them.
It's almost like, Uh, now I would look at it as a physical and subtle body dissociation as if you're watching a 3D movie without the glasses and you have these two different layers that aren't blended. And, uh, so she comes in. She's hysterical. She's sure her life is over. She lays down, put my hands on, do my grounding, do my touching into that particular frequency that I received.
And it was two hours. This is unprecedented. Two hours of feeling absolutely nothing. And then at the two hour mark, I felt this Just this little spark in and now looking back, we have terms for these things and an [00:11:00] osteopathy we consider there a pilot light in the third ventricle of the skull of the brain, and there are terms for these in Chinese medicine that I and then Vedic philosophy that I actually can't pronounce and there.
Has to do with the kidney heart channel communication, but I don't quite understand it. I feel it. I'm more interested in what it feels like than what it's called.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Michelle Veneziano: And um, that was that. That was that. It was almost like her system rebooted and I think I treated her one more time and the whole conversation just disappeared.
Rheumatoid became not a diagnosis in her, in her world.
Julie Michelson: Which is, is amazing. And I was nodding along as you were saying that as somebody who had that diagnosis as well, and that outlook of life is over and over a decade of decline. I do believe there is a [00:12:00] tendency it's like chicken or egg, right? Of course, I'm sure there was, uh, Some disassociation before the diagnosis, but I think that living with the chronic pain and this idea of this is my identity and I have this label and life is, you know, declining and I know the death sentence kind of outlook, if you will, also really causes that.
Disassociation where, you know, um, so I, I love the, and I, yeah, I couldn't, I, I, I do understand that there was a piece of that already there, but I, I do think that we can, we reach this state where that's what happens almost as a protective mechanism, right? , but then it blocks the healing. And so I, I love that.
I wanna circle. Back, um, because I, I think it's really important for listeners to understand best. You can, what [00:13:00] is osteopathy? I know
Michelle Veneziano: Oh my goodness. In a
Julie Michelson: are, you are a doctor of it. So see if you can tell us what it is.
Michelle Veneziano: Absolutely. It's such a magical story. Back in the 1800s, there was a frontier doctor named Andrew Taylor Still, who had an insight that the body is a system that if functioning well mechanically can pretty much self correct. And that was brilliant and beautiful and all about actual healing and not about an industry of medicine.
And then around the turn of the century, there was a whole kind of influx of we're going to be very, uh, you know, structured and systematic about, uh, Medicine and it and that's the beginning of the allopathic, um, approach. Well, uh, well, let's just say he was working with medicines and surgery and he, [00:14:00] he, he could see this is not what's really going to ultimately serve optimal wellness.
So the whole of our culture went toward this allopathic approach. Medical schools were formed for the first time. Um, you were restricted. And your ability to practice anything outside of that standard of care. And for many decades, he fought and was successful in creating a profession that was a contrast to that approach, the osteopathic profession around the time of the sixties with all of the politics and the way that medicine was moving toward.
Uh, what it is now, quite a bit of, um, you know, political and financial focus. He, we, professions were moving toward blending into one and people, DOs in the sixties could actually trade in their, a degree and you had an MD degree if they were deemed trained [00:15:00] appropriately, and there was a, a number of. Of Dr.
Still's students that held out or students of his students that said, no, we must maintain this. And they became keepers of a flame that then evolved into a focus of traditional osteopathy that does exist today and then technically is statistically insignificant in the context of the number of DOs that exist in the world, most of which practice pretty much indistinguishably from MDs.
So it's confusing for patients because they're like, Oh, well, my, my surgeon's a DO that must mean he may, well, truthfully, he may or may not have any, have Retained any of the original, you know, philosophy and approach. Although most do's in medicine do have a bit more of a orientation toward humanness, communication, [00:16:00] contact, uh, that it's, it's Yeah, go ahead.
Julie Michelson: I do think that the premise, right, it's probably, it was, you know, why do you choose to become a D. O. versus an M. D. is perhaps this, you know, idea, a true knowing that the body can heal.
Michelle Veneziano: While we have a joke, we talk about, uh, maybe a third of, in a medical school class of maybe, what, 150 kids, we have a third that I absolutely love the idea of the traditional osteopathy and intend to pursue it, most of whom find that it's very difficult to do side by side with all the requirements of medical education.
I think 5 percent of our class went on to pursue it. And then we have a third that think it's a good idea but really aren't likely to ever get around to it. They love, Oh, it's great idea. I'm [00:17:00] too busy. And then we have a third, and I have compassion for all of that, um, we have a third that picked, chose it because maybe it was slightly easier to get in, slightly, uh, than MD schools, and they liked the location.
It just worked, it was logistically aligned. Yeah, so it's very confusing for patients to really decipher, uh, what, Uh, what osteopathy means, because it means different things to different people. And, uh, and then to, uh, you know, uh, understand the relevance or not relevance of the fact that their doctor has a DO degree.
It's very confusing for patients. I'm sorry, patients. Which, you know, for all
Julie Michelson: is, which is why I asked, because, yeah, it's a, it is, it's a question that gets thrown my way a lot. So I wanted to hear your
Michelle Veneziano: to hear your [00:18:00] description.
Julie Michelson: You know, I don't , I, I don't have one. Um, other than I, I do tend to, to think, but of course it's always our, what is our experience, right? And, and so it's the, the dos that, that are in my world definitely do have that approach of, um, you know, the, the body does have the ability to heal and, you know, there's, there's, and not that.
Like single system, you know, Oh, this is your GI tract and this is your heart. And, you know, it's, there is this kind of whole body medicine, I think as just kind of a theme across the board. Um, and so, uh, that that's totally not an educated answer. That's an experiential answer.
Michelle Veneziano: Absolutely. I agree with you. I agree with you. Um, I worked with a lot of DOs and [00:19:00] obviously in the medical setting, their uh, DOs are in every sector and they tend to be more relatable, more kind of, you know, oriented toward humanity. And MDs, um, many MDs are also such, um, so I don't want to put
Julie Michelson: Right, right. Nobody's bashing
Michelle Veneziano: No,
Julie Michelson: MDs. It's just more. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I've heard questions that run the game, you know, well, is that a real doctor or is that just all kinds of questions? Um, and, and so, uh, my experience as well, uh, you know, across the board is I don't, I didn't realize numbers were so small.
As far as the hands on and manual therapy. Um, but you know, that's where all of that kind of comes from anyway, you know, people don't realize
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: you know, chiropractic didn't just pop up as its own thing. [00:20:00] Um, you know, so osteopathy has definitely, um, contributed a lot, I think, to where medicine is going now.
Michelle Veneziano: Yes.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. And, um, I really look at osteopathy as almost like, um, how does nature actually work and manifest as a body? And in fact, that we're all born experts in all of that, and we forget in our culture. And at this point, I'm seeing few patients I'm focusing on, uh, actually, uh, educating people, doctors and patients.
In how it is relating to that story of that woman where she activated what we call the pilot light and which is really a spark for the whole central channel around which all of the physical and said subtle body anatomy are oriented, how do we actually manifest that in ourselves, because we can, and qigong and yoga all relate [00:21:00] to this.
And I'll speak to it. All of the, all of the, you know, traditional lineages have their version of, uh, supporting subtle body, physical body integration. And we can do so much of it ourselves. Uh, once I had this revelation because I was sitting in my office, you know, many years of, um, Nose to the grindstone, single mom with, um, you know, uh, not really just managing my patients and my child.
And I started to see that I was treating a lot. Oh, as I healed myself, I began to learn what behaviors actually support this full expression of, you know, wellness in the body. I had a lot of support, but until I got into my body and actually moment by moment. oriented my behaviors, breath, grounding, actually feeling every cell in my body.
I [00:22:00] didn't hold any treatments, really. It's like they didn't even really penetrate. Supplement regimens, you know, energy therapies from devices, they all could have an effect where they could bring the body into coherence. But it wouldn't last. So my idea is rather than arrive there occasionally after our Qigong practice or a yoga class or a healing from another person, how do we actually live there, you know, as in each moment and then my I began to train my patients to hold their treatments and they began to need fewer of them, which let me open up my practice and, um, just have more experience because if you're digging people out of a hole and they become like, Oh, my osteopath is going to fix this thing.
We actually can have very small patient census. censuses. What's the plural of that word? And, um, [00:23:00] it's a little bit, I would say almost, um, we're underutilized and it's even a little codependent. We can, we can, all healers can end up being a little bit codependent. My, um, My, how I figured out that that was happening is that I started to get really bored.
Like, what's wrong with this picture? This is not challenging for me. This feels not so exciting. And, uh, once I started to teach people, like you can actually do this and it's fun and amazing and really easy. And, and it's also our native setting to get back into integration. So once people feel that and realize they can perpetuate it.
They begin to have a really, uh, colorful journey of communication with their bodies, and they begin to have more, what I would say, evidence of arriving and actually existing in present time and space is that a lot of [00:24:00] synchronicity begins to happen, a lot of creativity comes out, a lot of curiosity and optimism.
And, and despite, you know, the difficulties in the world, it's almost like I'm mobilizing myself to be of service. It's like we get full with all this beautiful life force and then we just want to give it out. So we become very oriented to service. So in a way I feel like, Oh, this is really ultimately about service in the world, which is, I think the highest nutrient.
Um, of our soul and I actually think it heals our digestion and it heals all of our tissues and it, um, it's really the source of that magical piece that, you know, we hear about these hospitals in China where no matter what a person's condition, they have over 95 percent success by addressing this, [00:25:00] you know, um, um, um, Uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
Uh, functionality of the subtle body and the integration of the subtle body and the physical body. I hope that wasn't too complex.
Julie Michelson: I think it's amazing. I mean, for me now, I'm right there with you. Um, we'll get listener feedback. I, I think, you know, if you guys have to play this a couple of times, just keep playing it. What kept popping into my head as you were talking about shifting, you know, this idea of. Teaching your patients, right, to, to do this themselves and to live this way is, to me, it's the equivalent of you're teaching them to fish, right?
You're not just giving them a meal. You are teaching them to fish. And, and so I love that. It's amazing.
Michelle Veneziano: so much more fun for everybody involved and I would say I'm not really teaching well, there are some pieces I'm not I feel like it's more like let's [00:26:00] remember together. This is nothing new about this and yet Osteopathy has some particularly unique ways of addressing two problems that are unique to modern times because our anatomy has changed our Development has changed we have literally, you know Ways that, um, probably many of your listeners have heard about this real significance of nasal breathing and the tongue being able to relate to the roof of the mouth.
And there are ways that the tongue is now held down by vestiges of. Of tissues that should have not, not, um, come into adult life or in physical form. So we have people whose tongues are tied down much more frequently related to, we think, you know, diet and probably environmental toxins. And however it is that that original blueprint becomes a little bit distorted.
And this is going [00:27:00] back, you know, Well, over 100 years, um, as we've moved into modern life and through the industrial revolution, we really have some problems unique to modern life that did not exist when yoga and Qigong were developed. And so I do a lot of work with people understanding this, um, correcting or Responding as as much as possible to correcting that mechanism of intelligence of this connection of the tongue to the palate and the depth of the relevance to it.
So this is a take home for the audience. However, it is you get your palate your tongue to rest completely across the roof of your mouth. Uh, it's a little bit disorienting. I have images. I have a wonderful article on my website, uh, called your swallow, smile and sleep are more related than you think. So if [00:28:00] you touch into this and vibe on it, don't expect to understand it completely in this podcast.
But. There's a reference there that kind of breaks down all the pieces with a ton of studies, over 300 studies are attached to that article. So this resting of your tongue on the roof of your mouth and in this moment noticing if that contact actually has you feel a little bit more present and able to feel the ground.
It's profound. And in Vedic teachings, this, there's a chakra in the roof of the mouth and this contact with, which means every time you swallow, there's some pressure. There's almost like a pulsing of the palate that actually opens up the whole head. When we talk about cranial osteopathy, we're really talking about wave transmissibility.
It's actually almost like a viscosity shift where the bones fill with This, you know, vital energy, and they actually [00:29:00] begin to feel moldable and respond as if they're moldable. That's how we work with that. We work with that cranial mechanism, which is a misnomer because it occurs in every part of the body.
This breath, not breath. In the actual structure. So your tongue on the roof of your mouth. I say, uh, it's like having an osteopath living in your head. You're your own osteopath. And once that connection is reestablished. You don't have to really think about it. There's a fairly significant northward force with each swallow that maintains this, uh, breath capacity in the skull, which then translates to the rest of the body.
So this is a must, must have, must do. And, um, and you know, it's really just so fun to explore it and it feels amazing as well. So when I talked about that story of that woman, where that. Pilot light came on [00:30:00] and that was an activation of basically she came back into present time and space. We talk about this in osteopathy, we term the central channel, this river of vital energy through the center of the body, we call it the midline.
Um, and Vedic teachings is called, uh, shum, shushumna, shushumna. It's called, uh, zongmai in Taoist teachings. It's, it's, uh, people say, Oh, that's yoga. No, that's life. That's what it is. And we all have different vocabulary. So the, this tongue palate connection is absolutely essential to, uh, maintaining that patency of that.
flow. And it's also the way in Vedic teachings that the heart communicates with the pineal and the intuition.
Julie Michelson: I love that.
Michelle Veneziano: It's really potent. So it's like, well, the one way you could think about [00:31:00] it is intuition is like, It's like a gateway, it's like a portal, and you are granted entry to the degree that your heart is actually driving The whole of you, because then your spirit knows that you're you will use information responsibly, or I have this whole idea in my mind.
I don't know if everyone would agree with it, but it feels very profound and and central to, uh, awake life, living and healing. Yeah, the heart being able. Yeah, so the tongue somehow has to do with the heart being activated as almost the sign of the solar system of the entirety of the subtle body, you know, chakras and meridians.
And then what it allows us to do is connect our connection with the [00:32:00] higher realm to our that which is a, which is the young pole, we're all, we're talking about yin and yang, we're right down here in the basis of the entirety of existence. And then the planet, which is the feminine pole, and then we exist as a connection between heaven and earth.
That's our job description.
Julie Michelson: so beautiful. Uh, and I'm always talking to my clients about, you know, and this is just, it's our times, right? With like, the answers are in your head, right? Everybody's trying to intellectualize their healing and their answers and their, you know, and it's, it's the heart. That's where the answers are.
Michelle Veneziano: It's the body holds um, like when they say, Oh, our brains only use 10 percent of our potential. Yeah. And in my mind, it's a perfect metaphor or analogy because 90 plus percent in [00:33:00] my mind of our intelligence is not in the mind. It's in the body knowing. Uh, yeah, we'd be in a lot better shape on this planet if we could just get that one thing.
And the tongue is related to that. It's related to our ability to actually hear that voice. Almost like it's a frequency that we don't have access to. This broader knowing, uh, and most would say, oh, this is a connection to spirit, spiritual realm. And I would say, yeah, sure. Um, connection to Something much larger than ourselves of which we are an integral part, uh, so no separation.
Once we log on to the central channel above and below and the heart sort of organizes all of it, we are, um, one with everything. Yeah. And then diagnoses just kind of aren't relevant in that
Julie Michelson: Right, right.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. Your body's like, that's, yeah, that's [00:34:00] great. I'm, I am myself. I have returned to my original self and our capacity for healing.
Once we're actually one with all of the forces of nature, which are infinitely powerful and infinitely intelligence, intelligent, there's actually nothing That isn't possible. I'm feeling the magnitude of that statement. It's, it's a, it's a, it's, yes, it's the realm of miracles for sure. And I consider miracles, that's our actual world and life.
And then we're doing this other thing most of the time, which is presents difficulties and challenges, puzzles and You know, things to be, uh, it's all purposeful. It's all our learning and growing terrain. The difficulties of the physical plane is our, uh, yeah. It's where we get, um, we're, we're, we get, we're grown.
We're getting grown by
Julie Michelson: We are getting grown. We're always getting grown, [00:35:00] which is good because I, you know, I don't want to be done yet growing
Michelle Veneziano: It's fascinating. It's fascinating. So once the heart activates, you approach the entire challenge as it's exciting. It's like versus you collapse with fear. This heart shifts the entire, uh, as the entire experience of being in a body is quite magical and mystical and wondrous and fairly unanswerable. Oh, entirely unanswerable.
But once you're in the heart, answers aren't relevant. It's not a, it's questions that are relevant. It's curiosity that's relevant experience and adventure. And yeah,
Julie Michelson: connection.
Michelle Veneziano: exactly, exactly.
Julie Michelson: So trainable exercise, right? As a, as a practice. Even just taking that step of tongue to palate
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: throughout the [00:36:00] day to re because it is a retraining for those that haven't ever given it a thought before.
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm. Uh, I have a whole DIY do it yourself little section in that article on my website flowismedicine. com and I want to say that, um, oh, you know, it's so powerful mechanically. Because if you understand this topic at its deepest level, you realize no single person would have crowded teeth if this mechanism were in place.
So if a listener out there has had a very significant orthodontic history and I hear things like, oh, I failed braces twice or three times and I had headgear and they have, uh, that if you're trying to solve a health issue and all of that. Is in your history, I really, really highly recommend you find an osteopath that can help you through that [00:37:00] and, um, cranialacademy.
com, uh, org is a great place to actually put your zip code in and find a physician in your area that, uh, can help you start to sort that out and, uh, interestingly, It doesn't matter what the disorder is, but if I can get someone tongue to palate functional and get this central channel connecting the pelvis and the cranium, the largest mechanical hinges in the body, they must be breathing together.
They must be, you know, integrated at that point. It's almost like the life force engine turns on and then the problem list becomes not as relevant. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: I love that. That's amazing. And I, I, I keep thinking about, um, the, the field of biological dentistry, right? This is the kind of newer approach, . [00:38:00] Um, and I am, I'm one of those people that. The, you know, they've, they pulled molars because my mouth was crowded and I, I just, I know so much more now. I'm like, oh, boy, that was all done wrong and not to my benefit my health benefit.
Um, but I love that, you know, my dentist checks for tongue, tie and apnea and narrow jaw and crowding and refers to get those things corrected. Um, But even just, I challenge listeners, if you, if you haven't already done it while you're listening, put your tongue on the roof of your mouth for a few minutes, just feel what you feel, just allow to see if you feel anything different other than.
The roof of your mouth with your tongue, but in your, in your heart and your body, because it's, it is such a simple thing, but it can be so profound.
Michelle Veneziano: It's [00:39:00] so profound. It is actually, uh, the contact itself mimics the, um, neurological effect of breastfeeding, which is innately so deeply, um, you know, calming. So the tongue palate contact also begins to reset the nervous system. If you have people who don't settle and they don't sleep well, Hence the name of the article, your smile, swallow, and sleep are more related than you think.
This is, this is, if they're breathing through their mouth and their tongue is not resting on their palate at all times, aside from eating and talking, they're going to be more easily destabilized. And then you have enter, you know, diagnoses. I actually had a kid who had pandas. It's a complex, you know, pediatric, um, Recurrent infection and, uh, autoimmune condition, and, um, I, [00:40:00] he had this, he was a mouth breather and he had, uh, no discernible connection of communication between his pelvis and his head.
I just did that one thing. In, uh, one or two sessions with him to, you know, until I could feel the circuit activate. And then he was taping his mouth at night, which I explain is a very standard treatment at this point. I explained it in that article. And that was the end of his pandas. That was just the end of it.
Uh, three months of antibiotics, you know, miserable kid, not sleeping, not doing well in school, having, you know, Inability to socialize and yeah, it's so deep. It's so deep. I'm shouting from the rooftops right now. Please pay attention to
Julie Michelson: And, and for people that don't know about mouth taping, I have to, we have to touch on it. Explain. Yeah. Cause it's,
Michelle Veneziano: oh, well, there's so there's a relevant to [00:41:00] the response of the brainstem and the breath mechanism and the. Sort of driving of the whole neurologic system where if the lips are touching, there's some activation of this memory of a functional breath. So, so it's really at rest, all of you out there, uh, noticing if your lips are touching and if I'm actually inhaling through my mouth a little bit today, I don't know if.
You can hear that, but the breath should, I'm a little stuffed up today. I also talk about how to clear the nose. That's a whole different topic. I have all of this actually in a training I have online that we can speak more to at the end. And noticing if you're breathing through your nose and your lips are touching and the tape almost trains that, um, Us to default with a lip seal, and it requires that we breathe through our nose at night.
I have people just try it for a half an hour during the day to, to [00:42:00] notice, you know, just so they internalize all this actually feels safe. Well, ultimately, it doesn't only feel safe, it almost feels like a swaddle, like without having it. I personally, um, now I'm back in fog country, so I tend to like.
actually sometimes end up breathing through my mouth, um, unknowingly. And the tape that I do is, uh, it just, feels like a really beautiful support. This is one of these topics and things that just wasn't relevant in the, in the traditional times of ancient medicine, but now it's a really, really big thing.
So there are products on the market. I think I have lists, I've listed options on, uh, I don't make any money on these things, but I list my favorite. products on my website, uh, under items we like, something like that. Uh, I end up using just a sport tape. That's ultimately my favorite, um, [00:43:00] micropore medical tape.
Uh, surgical tape is probably the most accessible and you can just get it at your local drugstore. Um, and then some people have issues with the adhesive. So, you know, you need to find the one that just feels right for you.
Julie Michelson: do you have any, this is Really getting down to them, but any tips or tricks for the men that have stubble or beards or facial hair, or because this is where I've had challenges with clients in the past with mouth tape.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. Yeah. There's actually. A product called Somnafix I think that's just fitted to the lips
Julie Michelson: the lips.
Michelle Veneziano: and it has a little, it has a little slit and so there's actually a sense that you could breathe if you wanted to, but with the lips actually, um, sealed, it works well and it actually comes and the directions are it has um, an [00:44:00] arch shape and the directions say put it Down and people who look like I'm frowning.
And honestly, I just think, why don't they just turn it upside down? It doesn't make a difference. So
Julie Michelson: Those people, those are the direction followers. They're in their heads.
Michelle Veneziano: turn that frown upside down.
Julie Michelson: There you go. Awesome.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Love that recommendation. It's a, yeah, this is, this could be a huge spiral. So we'll shift back from there.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: But because, Again, and I do think it's the same mindset we've been trained to it in allopathic medicine, right? Go to the doctor and have them fix you. Um, and, and so for me, this, the gigantic gift of this conversation is that we don't need yes.
Okay. Thank you. Professionals can help us get back, you know, in alignment and, and connected again, but that we, you [00:45:00] know, it's not you fixing your patients. It's you giving them that experience and then, you know, supporting them and doing that for themselves.
Michelle Veneziano: I think I have a great analogy for this. I think of it as being a writer and you're the author of your own book, but, and the editor is an absolutely essential piece. You will never be the fresh set of eyes that looks at your work. And so it's a partnership, but you're the driver. It's your book.
Julie Michelson: Love it. Love it. And it's, it's perfect. It's beautiful. Amazing. So before, and you already have, but I want you to pick or have the opportunity to, to maybe even surprise me with something different, but
Michelle Veneziano: I got something for you. Oh, go ahead. Finish your question.
Julie Michelson: I was going to ask for [00:46:00] one, one step listeners can, can start today.
Michelle Veneziano: Yes. Besides the tongue business, it's real, uh, there are all these little pieces and my body's telling me right now the next relevant one is to talk about this is so beautiful. This is such a beautiful concept because for me, our profession, osteopathy is bone. You know, it's, it's not about bones. It's about fluids and energy and, you know, organs and what, how did that happen?
Uh, and now I get it in a way for me, it's relevant. It's made, it makes sense that, um, the bones are the ground. It's like the ground that we carry in our own bodies. And when a patient, a person, is truly integrated in this physical, subtle body blending, um, way of existing. It, it starts to resonate in the bones and it's almost like the bones anchor the setting.
It's almost like once the [00:47:00] song of your integrated self includes the bones, and this is a, this is spoken to in the, you know, ancient, um, medicines. We, they talk about bone breathing in all, some version of bone breathing. And so, you know, imagine you work in a skyscraper. You may not be able to touch the ground with bare feet to reset yourself, but, and you can maintain this song in your bones.
The one, uh, I guess way I would say this is an elusive concept and to experience it, experience it is that what has that occur is that you are, your attention is connected to yourselves. So, all of you out there, as you have your tongues seeking this connection with your palate as a resting behavior, notice if you have an ability to feel or imagine feeling some awareness of every cell in [00:48:00] your body, and then your sense of connection to your bones, and bone breathing is an actual thing.
It's spoken to in Vedic philosophy, Taoist philosophy, and you know, the way I would say you know it's happening is that you feel vibration. You begin to feel humming. And ultimately, once we are really fluidized, that's why I call my whole school is flow is medicine. Once we actually shape shift from particle to light to our actual selves to our, uh, there's nothing that isn't fluid and this is, you know, revealed in physics and mathematics.
We are actually fluids with a sense of, uh, solidness that is, uh, actually imaginary and it's contextual. that once we begin to resonate our vital energy, the frequency of our being [00:49:00] resonating in our bones, uh, we begin to really be able to hold our ground. And it almost doesn't matter where you are, because you can connect to that, you know, electrically above and below in a way that is, it, it, the, the, the frequency or the transmission, the actual resonance of that begins to be held in the bones.
And then we're here.
Julie Michelson: And now I understand. Osteopathy,
Michelle Veneziano: Well, I, that's my version.
Julie Michelson: No, but I mean, it's, I, I love that. That's a, it just gave me this whole other
Michelle Veneziano: It's so
Julie Michelson: broader, more profound understanding. I
Michelle Veneziano: Irony is all of [00:50:00] this most basic, pretty much completely obvious stuff to our higher self is, is this advanced esoteric, you know, understanding. It's so
Julie Michelson: we're not living thousands of years ago before the rest of all that noise got in the way. So
Michelle Veneziano: That's, that's right. That's
Julie Michelson: it's amazing.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. So did I answer your question
Julie Michelson: You did. You did. It was fantastic. And I have to ask for, for listeners that are listening on the go, where's the best place to find you?
Michelle Veneziano: my website is flow is medicine. com and I love meeting people. I'm I'm actually creating a community of providers that come in and I, my, this training, this entire training is an actual top shelf CME program that I would say a person could make their way through it in a couple of weeks, but I wouldn't [00:51:00] advise that I'd advise to extend your window of fun to, you know, it's actually a forever.
We meet once a week on Saturdays and actually practice the skills we drop into an actual healing experience. And then speak to the, uh, elements that arise and train. It's a training. It's like the gym, you actually get to practice the skills and mostly it's a community, you're really beautiful, connected community of, um, and then it's very social and playful.
And I loved how this all manifested COVID hit. That I actually started to, I had the time to build it out. I'd been thinking about it for years. And then I thought, wow, this is so beautiful. I'm finding these, you know, physicians and all over the country who maybe were kind of functioning in a vacuum and didn't really have connection to like.
Minds and like tribe and, uh, and then there's an [00:52:00] integration between the physician and patient world. We're all patients. I don't love that distinction. I actually feel like there, there are many non physicians also in the community. They all come because they resonate with the level that we're working at and I would actually, I'm going to say something really funny to the world right now.
My non physician participants rock. The physicians have a harder time Getting out of our heads, myself included, because we're just wired that way. And we, you know, practiced being so intellectual for so long that we're more, a bit more challenged with that shift from thinking to feeling. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Oh, I love it, Michelle. Thank you so, so much. You have shared amazing golden and wisdom with us today. And, and I'm excited to listen to this again. I know I have pieces of this I'm taking forward to incorporate in [00:53:00] my journey. So I'm very grateful for you.
Michelle Veneziano: I'm very grateful. I actually feel like I had had a healing having my whole I'm very like awake now and I'm just my body feels amazing. And I feel like we just really dropped into a beautiful place. And that's always a function of, you know, whoever's present and what their heart brings.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, I, I as well, I feel grounded and open and I'm excited to carry this forward. So thank you so much.
Michelle Veneziano: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for the invitation. Yes, I'm feeling very blessed.
Julie Michelson: For everyone listening. Remember you can get the transcripts and show notes by visiting inspired living. show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Listen to it again. [00:54:00]
Dr. Veneziano gives us practices to enhance our capability [00:01:00] for healing as she reinforces that healing is accessible through alignment with the natural world.
Dr. Veneziano, welcome to the podcast.
Michelle Veneziano: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Julie Michelson: I am really excited for this conversation. And I know listeners are going to get so much out of it. I always love to have you share a little bit of your journey. First, before we get into the rest of our content, um, how, how did you get to, I know before I hit record, you were like, I'm really an educator.
That's, that's how, what I am. So tell, tell me a little bit of your story,
Michelle Veneziano: Oh, goodness. Okay. Well, I feel like my calling to medicine was just that I almost remember as a teenager, not really being clear about what I was my purpose. And then I, I remember the moment I was actually walking across the courtyard at my high [00:02:00] school. And it's almost like I got hit by lightning or something.
And a voice said, you're going to be a doctor. And I didn't really know what that meant, but it's really been quite a spiritual journey. And, um, I was not in my body. That's the defining overarching thing. I did not know that my moving toward medicine was going to be a journey of getting into my body.
Didn't even know what that meant. Uh, struggled a lot in school. With health stuff early on and, you know, at the time I didn't realize that that was my learning path and that it was almost a necessary, uh, you know, trial by fire to really deeply learn what healing and what, um, an awakening journey, a consciousness journey is really all about.
So I had all the things. I was sensitive, right? Nobody gets a lightning bolt and has a [00:03:00] conversation with God if they're not sort of sensitive and kind of tuned into something larger. And so all the things, you know, all the things that kind of manifest when a person is incompatible with a concretized culture, I, my system had a really hard time.
And I ended up having a pretty massive, uh, autoimmune response when in my pregnancy. And there was an embodiment piece to that because my TSH was actually normal. I'm talking about a thyroid condition, a thyroid stimulating hormone. And I And I had a sense that I knew something was not right. Something's not right.
I knew it was my thyroid. I was already tapping into my intuition before even really knowing what that was. And so I asked for more labs and my antibodies were through the roof. Isn't that so interesting? [00:04:00] So in that sense, in that sense, I began to, um, No, I just, I knew that I needed to think deeper than the cookbook version of how you approach any, uh, condition.
And I learned to trust my body's knowing over what the books say. So that was, that was a wonderful launching pad. So my background is family medicine. I was a hospitalist for a period of time and that was, I was part of it. I actually remember one shift where I had ridiculously high patient load and I just didn't really breathe or drink water or take breaks and I just thought I can do this, you know, I had been doing it for
Julie Michelson: trained to do this.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. And then my body was like, uh, yeah, no. And I literally went from. Feeling like, um, a superhero that could do anything to the complete [00:05:00] opposite. And I had a series of years where I just really struggled with fatigue. I thought I had, I knew I had mold illness because I was living here in Marin County.
And it, you know, there's a reason we have the sourest sourdough in the world. It's a place where, uh, if you're, if you're not robust, you. It's, uh, you know, people travel to dry climates to have a relief from environmental burden. And so here was the perfect place for the perfect storm. Uh, and then that shows up as fill in the blank, you know, maybe you have lime, maybe you have, um, uh, yeah, so all of that, the whole load that when I hear people talk about it, I'm like, okay, we're in this territory.
The way I approach it is. We need to get back in our bodies because once we do that, we literally have stronger electrical flow and can hold coherence and stability in [00:06:00] our nervous systems, both the physical and subtle body. And I think it's a really optimistic view because the burdens of the world, the stress, the environmental toxins, the, you know, people's limited availability to nutritious, you know, clean food, clean water, clean air is not moving in a great direction, right?
So. We, I see that all in a sort of meta sense as a calling to really step into our power and literally cultivate the ability to radiate personal, our personal energy to almost create a force field and to create, uh, Coherence in the body. And of course, the heart is so related to all of this. I hope we get to talk about that, where we're actually transmitting into the world, something really of a higher level of awareness and, [00:07:00] you know, connection to nature and connection.
Thank you. Um, almost like we learn from one another and in neuroscience, we talk so much about mirroring and mirror neurons and without really understanding the mechanism of how we, uh, exchange information. And it's, it's such so deep and such a beautiful topic. So. Yeah, I'm all about that. And the transmitting of those ideas and simple ways that hopefully I will manage to do with you today.
Um, so I have a story that I think is really, um, Beautiful way to illustrate this idea of embodiment and integration between the physical and electrical aspects of ourselves. So early in my training, I, um, just, you know, took the [00:08:00] opportunity to work with patients when I could on this level of working with the electrical body, which was quite a new concept for me early in my training, however.
I sat with masters and I believe I received a mirroring experience with my mentors where whatever it was that allowed them to connect with the, uh, consciousness or, uh, subtle body, um, expression in patients. It's almost like a channel on the, on a dial. I managed to touch what that was and my system registered and remembered what that was.
So I really, really didn't know much more than that. I would call it some ability to touch deep presence and stillness. And I had a, a woman I had one amazing treatment experience with one of my first private patients while I was in my family practice residency. [00:09:00] Uh, I don't know if I'll tell that story now, but once we had this, whatever magic happens when you touch into that thing.
Uh, he said, would you please treat my roommate? She's, uh, really in trouble. She's a, she's a dance, she's his dance partner. And was very physical and then suddenly this whole like whole horrendous body pain she, she had a rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis and she had these films that looked terrible and she thought her whole life was over and this was a bit of a complexity outside of what I would say my expertise was at the time.
non existent. But, and I said, you know, I'll try, I'll try and see if I can connect with her where, it's like when you sit in that stillness and you're connected to the earth and the cosmos and you [00:10:00] just feel so integrated with reality and then the patient comes in and they're not, you can't feel them.
It's almost like, Uh, now I would look at it as a physical and subtle body dissociation as if you're watching a 3D movie without the glasses and you have these two different layers that aren't blended. And, uh, so she comes in. She's hysterical. She's sure her life is over. She lays down, put my hands on, do my grounding, do my touching into that particular frequency that I received.
And it was two hours. This is unprecedented. Two hours of feeling absolutely nothing. And then at the two hour mark, I felt this Just this little spark in and now looking back, we have terms for these things and an [00:11:00] osteopathy we consider there a pilot light in the third ventricle of the skull of the brain, and there are terms for these in Chinese medicine that I and then Vedic philosophy that I actually can't pronounce and there.
Has to do with the kidney heart channel communication, but I don't quite understand it. I feel it. I'm more interested in what it feels like than what it's called.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Michelle Veneziano: And um, that was that. That was that. It was almost like her system rebooted and I think I treated her one more time and the whole conversation just disappeared.
Rheumatoid became not a diagnosis in her, in her world.
Julie Michelson: Which is, is amazing. And I was nodding along as you were saying that as somebody who had that diagnosis as well, and that outlook of life is over and over a decade of decline. I do believe there is a [00:12:00] tendency it's like chicken or egg, right? Of course, I'm sure there was, uh, Some disassociation before the diagnosis, but I think that living with the chronic pain and this idea of this is my identity and I have this label and life is, you know, declining and I know the death sentence kind of outlook, if you will, also really causes that.
Disassociation where, you know, um, so I, I love the, and I, yeah, I couldn't, I, I, I do understand that there was a piece of that already there, but I, I do think that we can, we reach this state where that's what happens almost as a protective mechanism, right? , but then it blocks the healing. And so I, I love that.
I wanna circle. Back, um, because I, I think it's really important for listeners to understand best. You can, what [00:13:00] is osteopathy? I know
Michelle Veneziano: Oh my goodness. In a
Julie Michelson: are, you are a doctor of it. So see if you can tell us what it is.
Michelle Veneziano: Absolutely. It's such a magical story. Back in the 1800s, there was a frontier doctor named Andrew Taylor Still, who had an insight that the body is a system that if functioning well mechanically can pretty much self correct. And that was brilliant and beautiful and all about actual healing and not about an industry of medicine.
And then around the turn of the century, there was a whole kind of influx of we're going to be very, uh, you know, structured and systematic about, uh, Medicine and it and that's the beginning of the allopathic, um, approach. Well, uh, well, let's just say he was working with medicines and surgery and he, [00:14:00] he, he could see this is not what's really going to ultimately serve optimal wellness.
So the whole of our culture went toward this allopathic approach. Medical schools were formed for the first time. Um, you were restricted. And your ability to practice anything outside of that standard of care. And for many decades, he fought and was successful in creating a profession that was a contrast to that approach, the osteopathic profession around the time of the sixties with all of the politics and the way that medicine was moving toward.
Uh, what it is now, quite a bit of, um, you know, political and financial focus. He, we, professions were moving toward blending into one and people, DOs in the sixties could actually trade in their, a degree and you had an MD degree if they were deemed trained [00:15:00] appropriately, and there was a, a number of. Of Dr.
Still's students that held out or students of his students that said, no, we must maintain this. And they became keepers of a flame that then evolved into a focus of traditional osteopathy that does exist today and then technically is statistically insignificant in the context of the number of DOs that exist in the world, most of which practice pretty much indistinguishably from MDs.
So it's confusing for patients because they're like, Oh, well, my, my surgeon's a DO that must mean he may, well, truthfully, he may or may not have any, have Retained any of the original, you know, philosophy and approach. Although most do's in medicine do have a bit more of a orientation toward humanness, communication, [00:16:00] contact, uh, that it's, it's Yeah, go ahead.
Julie Michelson: I do think that the premise, right, it's probably, it was, you know, why do you choose to become a D. O. versus an M. D. is perhaps this, you know, idea, a true knowing that the body can heal.
Michelle Veneziano: While we have a joke, we talk about, uh, maybe a third of, in a medical school class of maybe, what, 150 kids, we have a third that I absolutely love the idea of the traditional osteopathy and intend to pursue it, most of whom find that it's very difficult to do side by side with all the requirements of medical education.
I think 5 percent of our class went on to pursue it. And then we have a third that think it's a good idea but really aren't likely to ever get around to it. They love, Oh, it's great idea. I'm [00:17:00] too busy. And then we have a third, and I have compassion for all of that, um, we have a third that picked, chose it because maybe it was slightly easier to get in, slightly, uh, than MD schools, and they liked the location.
It just worked, it was logistically aligned. Yeah, so it's very confusing for patients to really decipher, uh, what, Uh, what osteopathy means, because it means different things to different people. And, uh, and then to, uh, you know, uh, understand the relevance or not relevance of the fact that their doctor has a DO degree.
It's very confusing for patients. I'm sorry, patients. Which, you know, for all
Julie Michelson: is, which is why I asked, because, yeah, it's a, it is, it's a question that gets thrown my way a lot. So I wanted to hear your
Michelle Veneziano: to hear your [00:18:00] description.
Julie Michelson: You know, I don't , I, I don't have one. Um, other than I, I do tend to, to think, but of course it's always our, what is our experience, right? And, and so it's the, the dos that, that are in my world definitely do have that approach of, um, you know, the, the body does have the ability to heal and, you know, there's, there's, and not that.
Like single system, you know, Oh, this is your GI tract and this is your heart. And, you know, it's, there is this kind of whole body medicine, I think as just kind of a theme across the board. Um, and so, uh, that that's totally not an educated answer. That's an experiential answer.
Michelle Veneziano: Absolutely. I agree with you. I agree with you. Um, I worked with a lot of DOs and [00:19:00] obviously in the medical setting, their uh, DOs are in every sector and they tend to be more relatable, more kind of, you know, oriented toward humanity. And MDs, um, many MDs are also such, um, so I don't want to put
Julie Michelson: Right, right. Nobody's bashing
Michelle Veneziano: No,
Julie Michelson: MDs. It's just more. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I've heard questions that run the game, you know, well, is that a real doctor or is that just all kinds of questions? Um, and, and so, uh, my experience as well, uh, you know, across the board is I don't, I didn't realize numbers were so small.
As far as the hands on and manual therapy. Um, but you know, that's where all of that kind of comes from anyway, you know, people don't realize
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: you know, chiropractic didn't just pop up as its own thing. [00:20:00] Um, you know, so osteopathy has definitely, um, contributed a lot, I think, to where medicine is going now.
Michelle Veneziano: Yes.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. And, um, I really look at osteopathy as almost like, um, how does nature actually work and manifest as a body? And in fact, that we're all born experts in all of that, and we forget in our culture. And at this point, I'm seeing few patients I'm focusing on, uh, actually, uh, educating people, doctors and patients.
In how it is relating to that story of that woman where she activated what we call the pilot light and which is really a spark for the whole central channel around which all of the physical and said subtle body anatomy are oriented, how do we actually manifest that in ourselves, because we can, and qigong and yoga all relate [00:21:00] to this.
And I'll speak to it. All of the, all of the, you know, traditional lineages have their version of, uh, supporting subtle body, physical body integration. And we can do so much of it ourselves. Uh, once I had this revelation because I was sitting in my office, you know, many years of, um, Nose to the grindstone, single mom with, um, you know, uh, not really just managing my patients and my child.
And I started to see that I was treating a lot. Oh, as I healed myself, I began to learn what behaviors actually support this full expression of, you know, wellness in the body. I had a lot of support, but until I got into my body and actually moment by moment. oriented my behaviors, breath, grounding, actually feeling every cell in my body.
I [00:22:00] didn't hold any treatments, really. It's like they didn't even really penetrate. Supplement regimens, you know, energy therapies from devices, they all could have an effect where they could bring the body into coherence. But it wouldn't last. So my idea is rather than arrive there occasionally after our Qigong practice or a yoga class or a healing from another person, how do we actually live there, you know, as in each moment and then my I began to train my patients to hold their treatments and they began to need fewer of them, which let me open up my practice and, um, just have more experience because if you're digging people out of a hole and they become like, Oh, my osteopath is going to fix this thing.
We actually can have very small patient census. censuses. What's the plural of that word? And, um, [00:23:00] it's a little bit, I would say almost, um, we're underutilized and it's even a little codependent. We can, we can, all healers can end up being a little bit codependent. My, um, My, how I figured out that that was happening is that I started to get really bored.
Like, what's wrong with this picture? This is not challenging for me. This feels not so exciting. And, uh, once I started to teach people, like you can actually do this and it's fun and amazing and really easy. And, and it's also our native setting to get back into integration. So once people feel that and realize they can perpetuate it.
They begin to have a really, uh, colorful journey of communication with their bodies, and they begin to have more, what I would say, evidence of arriving and actually existing in present time and space is that a lot of [00:24:00] synchronicity begins to happen, a lot of creativity comes out, a lot of curiosity and optimism.
And, and despite, you know, the difficulties in the world, it's almost like I'm mobilizing myself to be of service. It's like we get full with all this beautiful life force and then we just want to give it out. So we become very oriented to service. So in a way I feel like, Oh, this is really ultimately about service in the world, which is, I think the highest nutrient.
Um, of our soul and I actually think it heals our digestion and it heals all of our tissues and it, um, it's really the source of that magical piece that, you know, we hear about these hospitals in China where no matter what a person's condition, they have over 95 percent success by addressing this, [00:25:00] you know, um, um, um, Uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
Uh, functionality of the subtle body and the integration of the subtle body and the physical body. I hope that wasn't too complex.
Julie Michelson: I think it's amazing. I mean, for me now, I'm right there with you. Um, we'll get listener feedback. I, I think, you know, if you guys have to play this a couple of times, just keep playing it. What kept popping into my head as you were talking about shifting, you know, this idea of. Teaching your patients, right, to, to do this themselves and to live this way is, to me, it's the equivalent of you're teaching them to fish, right?
You're not just giving them a meal. You are teaching them to fish. And, and so I love that. It's amazing.
Michelle Veneziano: so much more fun for everybody involved and I would say I'm not really teaching well, there are some pieces I'm not I feel like it's more like let's [00:26:00] remember together. This is nothing new about this and yet Osteopathy has some particularly unique ways of addressing two problems that are unique to modern times because our anatomy has changed our Development has changed we have literally, you know Ways that, um, probably many of your listeners have heard about this real significance of nasal breathing and the tongue being able to relate to the roof of the mouth.
And there are ways that the tongue is now held down by vestiges of. Of tissues that should have not, not, um, come into adult life or in physical form. So we have people whose tongues are tied down much more frequently related to, we think, you know, diet and probably environmental toxins. And however it is that that original blueprint becomes a little bit distorted.
And this is going [00:27:00] back, you know, Well, over 100 years, um, as we've moved into modern life and through the industrial revolution, we really have some problems unique to modern life that did not exist when yoga and Qigong were developed. And so I do a lot of work with people understanding this, um, correcting or Responding as as much as possible to correcting that mechanism of intelligence of this connection of the tongue to the palate and the depth of the relevance to it.
So this is a take home for the audience. However, it is you get your palate your tongue to rest completely across the roof of your mouth. Uh, it's a little bit disorienting. I have images. I have a wonderful article on my website, uh, called your swallow, smile and sleep are more related than you think. So if [00:28:00] you touch into this and vibe on it, don't expect to understand it completely in this podcast.
But. There's a reference there that kind of breaks down all the pieces with a ton of studies, over 300 studies are attached to that article. So this resting of your tongue on the roof of your mouth and in this moment noticing if that contact actually has you feel a little bit more present and able to feel the ground.
It's profound. And in Vedic teachings, this, there's a chakra in the roof of the mouth and this contact with, which means every time you swallow, there's some pressure. There's almost like a pulsing of the palate that actually opens up the whole head. When we talk about cranial osteopathy, we're really talking about wave transmissibility.
It's actually almost like a viscosity shift where the bones fill with This, you know, vital energy, and they actually [00:29:00] begin to feel moldable and respond as if they're moldable. That's how we work with that. We work with that cranial mechanism, which is a misnomer because it occurs in every part of the body.
This breath, not breath. In the actual structure. So your tongue on the roof of your mouth. I say, uh, it's like having an osteopath living in your head. You're your own osteopath. And once that connection is reestablished. You don't have to really think about it. There's a fairly significant northward force with each swallow that maintains this, uh, breath capacity in the skull, which then translates to the rest of the body.
So this is a must, must have, must do. And, um, and you know, it's really just so fun to explore it and it feels amazing as well. So when I talked about that story of that woman, where that. Pilot light came on [00:30:00] and that was an activation of basically she came back into present time and space. We talk about this in osteopathy, we term the central channel, this river of vital energy through the center of the body, we call it the midline.
Um, and Vedic teachings is called, uh, shum, shushumna, shushumna. It's called, uh, zongmai in Taoist teachings. It's, it's, uh, people say, Oh, that's yoga. No, that's life. That's what it is. And we all have different vocabulary. So the, this tongue palate connection is absolutely essential to, uh, maintaining that patency of that.
flow. And it's also the way in Vedic teachings that the heart communicates with the pineal and the intuition.
Julie Michelson: I love that.
Michelle Veneziano: It's really potent. So it's like, well, the one way you could think about [00:31:00] it is intuition is like, It's like a gateway, it's like a portal, and you are granted entry to the degree that your heart is actually driving The whole of you, because then your spirit knows that you're you will use information responsibly, or I have this whole idea in my mind.
I don't know if everyone would agree with it, but it feels very profound and and central to, uh, awake life, living and healing. Yeah, the heart being able. Yeah, so the tongue somehow has to do with the heart being activated as almost the sign of the solar system of the entirety of the subtle body, you know, chakras and meridians.
And then what it allows us to do is connect our connection with the [00:32:00] higher realm to our that which is a, which is the young pole, we're all, we're talking about yin and yang, we're right down here in the basis of the entirety of existence. And then the planet, which is the feminine pole, and then we exist as a connection between heaven and earth.
That's our job description.
Julie Michelson: so beautiful. Uh, and I'm always talking to my clients about, you know, and this is just, it's our times, right? With like, the answers are in your head, right? Everybody's trying to intellectualize their healing and their answers and their, you know, and it's, it's the heart. That's where the answers are.
Michelle Veneziano: It's the body holds um, like when they say, Oh, our brains only use 10 percent of our potential. Yeah. And in my mind, it's a perfect metaphor or analogy because 90 plus percent in [00:33:00] my mind of our intelligence is not in the mind. It's in the body knowing. Uh, yeah, we'd be in a lot better shape on this planet if we could just get that one thing.
And the tongue is related to that. It's related to our ability to actually hear that voice. Almost like it's a frequency that we don't have access to. This broader knowing, uh, and most would say, oh, this is a connection to spirit, spiritual realm. And I would say, yeah, sure. Um, connection to Something much larger than ourselves of which we are an integral part, uh, so no separation.
Once we log on to the central channel above and below and the heart sort of organizes all of it, we are, um, one with everything. Yeah. And then diagnoses just kind of aren't relevant in that
Julie Michelson: Right, right.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. Your body's like, that's, yeah, that's [00:34:00] great. I'm, I am myself. I have returned to my original self and our capacity for healing.
Once we're actually one with all of the forces of nature, which are infinitely powerful and infinitely intelligence, intelligent, there's actually nothing That isn't possible. I'm feeling the magnitude of that statement. It's, it's a, it's a, it's, yes, it's the realm of miracles for sure. And I consider miracles, that's our actual world and life.
And then we're doing this other thing most of the time, which is presents difficulties and challenges, puzzles and You know, things to be, uh, it's all purposeful. It's all our learning and growing terrain. The difficulties of the physical plane is our, uh, yeah. It's where we get, um, we're, we're, we get, we're grown.
We're getting grown by
Julie Michelson: We are getting grown. We're always getting grown, [00:35:00] which is good because I, you know, I don't want to be done yet growing
Michelle Veneziano: It's fascinating. It's fascinating. So once the heart activates, you approach the entire challenge as it's exciting. It's like versus you collapse with fear. This heart shifts the entire, uh, as the entire experience of being in a body is quite magical and mystical and wondrous and fairly unanswerable. Oh, entirely unanswerable.
But once you're in the heart, answers aren't relevant. It's not a, it's questions that are relevant. It's curiosity that's relevant experience and adventure. And yeah,
Julie Michelson: connection.
Michelle Veneziano: exactly, exactly.
Julie Michelson: So trainable exercise, right? As a, as a practice. Even just taking that step of tongue to palate
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: throughout the [00:36:00] day to re because it is a retraining for those that haven't ever given it a thought before.
Michelle Veneziano: Mm hmm. Uh, I have a whole DIY do it yourself little section in that article on my website flowismedicine. com and I want to say that, um, oh, you know, it's so powerful mechanically. Because if you understand this topic at its deepest level, you realize no single person would have crowded teeth if this mechanism were in place.
So if a listener out there has had a very significant orthodontic history and I hear things like, oh, I failed braces twice or three times and I had headgear and they have, uh, that if you're trying to solve a health issue and all of that. Is in your history, I really, really highly recommend you find an osteopath that can help you through that [00:37:00] and, um, cranialacademy.
com, uh, org is a great place to actually put your zip code in and find a physician in your area that, uh, can help you start to sort that out and, uh, interestingly, It doesn't matter what the disorder is, but if I can get someone tongue to palate functional and get this central channel connecting the pelvis and the cranium, the largest mechanical hinges in the body, they must be breathing together.
They must be, you know, integrated at that point. It's almost like the life force engine turns on and then the problem list becomes not as relevant. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: I love that. That's amazing. And I, I, I keep thinking about, um, the, the field of biological dentistry, right? This is the kind of newer approach, . [00:38:00] Um, and I am, I'm one of those people that. The, you know, they've, they pulled molars because my mouth was crowded and I, I just, I know so much more now. I'm like, oh, boy, that was all done wrong and not to my benefit my health benefit.
Um, but I love that, you know, my dentist checks for tongue, tie and apnea and narrow jaw and crowding and refers to get those things corrected. Um, But even just, I challenge listeners, if you, if you haven't already done it while you're listening, put your tongue on the roof of your mouth for a few minutes, just feel what you feel, just allow to see if you feel anything different other than.
The roof of your mouth with your tongue, but in your, in your heart and your body, because it's, it is such a simple thing, but it can be so profound.
Michelle Veneziano: It's [00:39:00] so profound. It is actually, uh, the contact itself mimics the, um, neurological effect of breastfeeding, which is innately so deeply, um, you know, calming. So the tongue palate contact also begins to reset the nervous system. If you have people who don't settle and they don't sleep well, Hence the name of the article, your smile, swallow, and sleep are more related than you think.
This is, this is, if they're breathing through their mouth and their tongue is not resting on their palate at all times, aside from eating and talking, they're going to be more easily destabilized. And then you have enter, you know, diagnoses. I actually had a kid who had pandas. It's a complex, you know, pediatric, um, Recurrent infection and, uh, autoimmune condition, and, um, I, [00:40:00] he had this, he was a mouth breather and he had, uh, no discernible connection of communication between his pelvis and his head.
I just did that one thing. In, uh, one or two sessions with him to, you know, until I could feel the circuit activate. And then he was taping his mouth at night, which I explain is a very standard treatment at this point. I explained it in that article. And that was the end of his pandas. That was just the end of it.
Uh, three months of antibiotics, you know, miserable kid, not sleeping, not doing well in school, having, you know, Inability to socialize and yeah, it's so deep. It's so deep. I'm shouting from the rooftops right now. Please pay attention to
Julie Michelson: And, and for people that don't know about mouth taping, I have to, we have to touch on it. Explain. Yeah. Cause it's,
Michelle Veneziano: oh, well, there's so there's a relevant to [00:41:00] the response of the brainstem and the breath mechanism and the. Sort of driving of the whole neurologic system where if the lips are touching, there's some activation of this memory of a functional breath. So, so it's really at rest, all of you out there, uh, noticing if your lips are touching and if I'm actually inhaling through my mouth a little bit today, I don't know if.
You can hear that, but the breath should, I'm a little stuffed up today. I also talk about how to clear the nose. That's a whole different topic. I have all of this actually in a training I have online that we can speak more to at the end. And noticing if you're breathing through your nose and your lips are touching and the tape almost trains that, um, Us to default with a lip seal, and it requires that we breathe through our nose at night.
I have people just try it for a half an hour during the day to, to [00:42:00] notice, you know, just so they internalize all this actually feels safe. Well, ultimately, it doesn't only feel safe, it almost feels like a swaddle, like without having it. I personally, um, now I'm back in fog country, so I tend to like.
actually sometimes end up breathing through my mouth, um, unknowingly. And the tape that I do is, uh, it just, feels like a really beautiful support. This is one of these topics and things that just wasn't relevant in the, in the traditional times of ancient medicine, but now it's a really, really big thing.
So there are products on the market. I think I have lists, I've listed options on, uh, I don't make any money on these things, but I list my favorite. products on my website, uh, under items we like, something like that. Uh, I end up using just a sport tape. That's ultimately my favorite, um, [00:43:00] micropore medical tape.
Uh, surgical tape is probably the most accessible and you can just get it at your local drugstore. Um, and then some people have issues with the adhesive. So, you know, you need to find the one that just feels right for you.
Julie Michelson: do you have any, this is Really getting down to them, but any tips or tricks for the men that have stubble or beards or facial hair, or because this is where I've had challenges with clients in the past with mouth tape.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. Yeah. There's actually. A product called Somnafix I think that's just fitted to the lips
Julie Michelson: the lips.
Michelle Veneziano: and it has a little, it has a little slit and so there's actually a sense that you could breathe if you wanted to, but with the lips actually, um, sealed, it works well and it actually comes and the directions are it has um, an [00:44:00] arch shape and the directions say put it Down and people who look like I'm frowning.
And honestly, I just think, why don't they just turn it upside down? It doesn't make a difference. So
Julie Michelson: Those people, those are the direction followers. They're in their heads.
Michelle Veneziano: turn that frown upside down.
Julie Michelson: There you go. Awesome.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Love that recommendation. It's a, yeah, this is, this could be a huge spiral. So we'll shift back from there.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: But because, Again, and I do think it's the same mindset we've been trained to it in allopathic medicine, right? Go to the doctor and have them fix you. Um, and, and so for me, this, the gigantic gift of this conversation is that we don't need yes.
Okay. Thank you. Professionals can help us get back, you know, in alignment and, and connected again, but that we, you [00:45:00] know, it's not you fixing your patients. It's you giving them that experience and then, you know, supporting them and doing that for themselves.
Michelle Veneziano: I think I have a great analogy for this. I think of it as being a writer and you're the author of your own book, but, and the editor is an absolutely essential piece. You will never be the fresh set of eyes that looks at your work. And so it's a partnership, but you're the driver. It's your book.
Julie Michelson: Love it. Love it. And it's, it's perfect. It's beautiful. Amazing. So before, and you already have, but I want you to pick or have the opportunity to, to maybe even surprise me with something different, but
Michelle Veneziano: I got something for you. Oh, go ahead. Finish your question.
Julie Michelson: I was going to ask for [00:46:00] one, one step listeners can, can start today.
Michelle Veneziano: Yes. Besides the tongue business, it's real, uh, there are all these little pieces and my body's telling me right now the next relevant one is to talk about this is so beautiful. This is such a beautiful concept because for me, our profession, osteopathy is bone. You know, it's, it's not about bones. It's about fluids and energy and, you know, organs and what, how did that happen?
Uh, and now I get it in a way for me, it's relevant. It's made, it makes sense that, um, the bones are the ground. It's like the ground that we carry in our own bodies. And when a patient, a person, is truly integrated in this physical, subtle body blending, um, way of existing. It, it starts to resonate in the bones and it's almost like the bones anchor the setting.
It's almost like once the [00:47:00] song of your integrated self includes the bones, and this is a, this is spoken to in the, you know, ancient, um, medicines. We, they talk about bone breathing in all, some version of bone breathing. And so, you know, imagine you work in a skyscraper. You may not be able to touch the ground with bare feet to reset yourself, but, and you can maintain this song in your bones.
The one, uh, I guess way I would say this is an elusive concept and to experience it, experience it is that what has that occur is that you are, your attention is connected to yourselves. So, all of you out there, as you have your tongues seeking this connection with your palate as a resting behavior, notice if you have an ability to feel or imagine feeling some awareness of every cell in [00:48:00] your body, and then your sense of connection to your bones, and bone breathing is an actual thing.
It's spoken to in Vedic philosophy, Taoist philosophy, and you know, the way I would say you know it's happening is that you feel vibration. You begin to feel humming. And ultimately, once we are really fluidized, that's why I call my whole school is flow is medicine. Once we actually shape shift from particle to light to our actual selves to our, uh, there's nothing that isn't fluid and this is, you know, revealed in physics and mathematics.
We are actually fluids with a sense of, uh, solidness that is, uh, actually imaginary and it's contextual. that once we begin to resonate our vital energy, the frequency of our being [00:49:00] resonating in our bones, uh, we begin to really be able to hold our ground. And it almost doesn't matter where you are, because you can connect to that, you know, electrically above and below in a way that is, it, it, the, the, the frequency or the transmission, the actual resonance of that begins to be held in the bones.
And then we're here.
Julie Michelson: And now I understand. Osteopathy,
Michelle Veneziano: Well, I, that's my version.
Julie Michelson: No, but I mean, it's, I, I love that. That's a, it just gave me this whole other
Michelle Veneziano: It's so
Julie Michelson: broader, more profound understanding. I
Michelle Veneziano: Irony is all of [00:50:00] this most basic, pretty much completely obvious stuff to our higher self is, is this advanced esoteric, you know, understanding. It's so
Julie Michelson: we're not living thousands of years ago before the rest of all that noise got in the way. So
Michelle Veneziano: That's, that's right. That's
Julie Michelson: it's amazing.
Michelle Veneziano: Yeah. So did I answer your question
Julie Michelson: You did. You did. It was fantastic. And I have to ask for, for listeners that are listening on the go, where's the best place to find you?
Michelle Veneziano: my website is flow is medicine. com and I love meeting people. I'm I'm actually creating a community of providers that come in and I, my, this training, this entire training is an actual top shelf CME program that I would say a person could make their way through it in a couple of weeks, but I wouldn't [00:51:00] advise that I'd advise to extend your window of fun to, you know, it's actually a forever.
We meet once a week on Saturdays and actually practice the skills we drop into an actual healing experience. And then speak to the, uh, elements that arise and train. It's a training. It's like the gym, you actually get to practice the skills and mostly it's a community, you're really beautiful, connected community of, um, and then it's very social and playful.
And I loved how this all manifested COVID hit. That I actually started to, I had the time to build it out. I'd been thinking about it for years. And then I thought, wow, this is so beautiful. I'm finding these, you know, physicians and all over the country who maybe were kind of functioning in a vacuum and didn't really have connection to like.
Minds and like tribe and, uh, and then there's an [00:52:00] integration between the physician and patient world. We're all patients. I don't love that distinction. I actually feel like there, there are many non physicians also in the community. They all come because they resonate with the level that we're working at and I would actually, I'm going to say something really funny to the world right now.
My non physician participants rock. The physicians have a harder time Getting out of our heads, myself included, because we're just wired that way. And we, you know, practiced being so intellectual for so long that we're more, a bit more challenged with that shift from thinking to feeling. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Oh, I love it, Michelle. Thank you so, so much. You have shared amazing golden and wisdom with us today. And, and I'm excited to listen to this again. I know I have pieces of this I'm taking forward to incorporate in [00:53:00] my journey. So I'm very grateful for you.
Michelle Veneziano: I'm very grateful. I actually feel like I had had a healing having my whole I'm very like awake now and I'm just my body feels amazing. And I feel like we just really dropped into a beautiful place. And that's always a function of, you know, whoever's present and what their heart brings.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, I, I as well, I feel grounded and open and I'm excited to carry this forward. So thank you so much.
Michelle Veneziano: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for the invitation. Yes, I'm feeling very blessed.
Julie Michelson: For everyone listening. Remember you can get the transcripts and show notes by visiting inspired living. show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Listen to it again. [00:54:00]
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Michelle Veneziano
Dr. Michelle Veneziano is an osteopathic physician, adjunct clinical professor at Touro and Western universities, and research faculty at the California Institute for Human Science.
Her teaching integrates Continuum, Yoga, Buddhism, Qi Gong, Tantra and osteopathic principles. Her unique approach to osteopathic self care is rooted in Cranial Osteopathy, a hands-on, evidence-based therapeutic practice that sources both western & eastern philosophies to support the body’s ability to heal itself.
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