Episode 112
Annika Carroll:The Unexpected Sleep Disruption: Understanding Inflammation’s Role in Your Sleep Cycle
Annika Carroll:
The Unexpected Sleep Disruption: Understanding Inflammation’s Role in Your Sleep Cycle
In this episode, we dive deep into the complex world of sleep with our guest, Annika Carroll, an expert sleep specialist and CEO of Sleep Like a Boss. We explore the myriad of factors that can contribute to sleep problems – such as lifestyle behaviors, mindset, inflammation, and physiological issues – and practical steps to improve your sleep. In an eye-opening discussion, we shed light on the interconnectedness of the human body, from gut health to cortisol regulation.
First Aired on: Nov 5, 2023
Episode 112
Annika Carroll:The Unexpected Sleep Disruption: Understanding Inflammation’s Role in Your Sleep Cycle
Annika Carroll:
The Unexpected Sleep Disruption: Understanding Inflammation’s Role in Your Sleep Cycle
In this episode, we dive deep into the complex world of sleep with our guest, Annika Carroll, an expert sleep specialist and CEO of Sleep Like a Boss. We explore the myriad of factors that can contribute to sleep problems – such as lifestyle behaviors, mindset, inflammation, and physiological issues – and practical steps to improve your sleep. In an eye-opening discussion, we shed light on the interconnectedness of the human body, from gut health to cortisol regulation.
First Aired on: Nov 5, 2023
Table of Contents:
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In this episode:
1. The Interconnected Factors that Influence Sleep
- Annika discusses three primary influences on sleep health: lifestyle behaviors, mindset, and physiological issues.
- Investigates the role of inflammation and hormone balance in sleep quality.
- Highlights the importance of regulating cortisol rhythms for better sleep.
2. Understanding the Sleep/Wake Cycle
- Explains how the release of cortisol and melatonin forms your sleep-wake cycle.
- Reveals how daylight affects the release of cortisol and darkness stimulates melatonin production.
- Discusses the negative impact of chronic inflammation on this cycle.
3. Practical Steps to Protect the Sleep Cycle
- Addressing artificial light exposure and the suggested use of:
- Red lights in bedrooms
- Dimmer switches
- Lamps angled at eye level or below
- Discusses the influences of hormone imbalances, gut health, and heavy metals on sleep quality.
4. Improving Gut Health for Better Sleep
- Annika shares a case story about the health impacts of poor gut health.
- Emphasizes the significance of functional gut tests.
- Walks us through her approach to restore gut health with dietary adjustments and functional testing.
5. Maintaining Health and Improving Sleep Quality Over Time
- Talks about the harmful effects of recurrent consumption of the same foods and of gluten.
- The role of sun exposure in regulating cortisol and melatonin levels.
- Advantages of conducting a ‘brain dump’ to reduce anxiety and improve sleep.
Other Resources:
Other Resources:
Connect with Annika Carroll
Connect with Annika Carroll
Watch this interview:
Watch this interview:
Annika Carroll has a gift for you!
Annika Carroll has a gift for you!
Game of Sleep
Get 15 super-easy things to do during the day for a good night's sleep.
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Inspired Living with Autoimmunity Podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. Today, we are joined by Anika Carroll, CEO of Sleep Like a Boss and Sleep and Health Coach for Women. In today's episode, we're talking all about optimizing sleep and the connection between inflammation and insomnia.
Anika shares her knowledge about gut health and sleep. And she provides many essential tips for improving [00:01:00] your sleep, whether you are struggling with insomnia or you're just ready to optimize. Anika, welcome to the podcast.
Annika Carroll: Thank you so much, Julie, for having me. I'm excited.
Julie Michelson: I am as well. This is such an important conversation and, and such a, a common challenge for people. Um, but I would love for you to share with listeners your journey. I know you have personal experience with sleep challenges. Um, so how did you become the sleep specialist?
Annika Carroll: You know, it kind of, I used to think sleep was my superpower, like in my 20s and 30s. I was like, I would hit the pillow every night. I was out. I would wake up 30 minutes before the alarm. I would go, go, go. It wasn't a big deal. Then I had my son, which was a very traumatic experience because he was a super preemy.
And spent months in the NICU and that whole experience just [00:02:00] kind of revved up the nervous system a little. And then I went back to work like a year later and then had like really worked myself into a burnout. And the interesting thing when I couldn't work, I was exhausted and I couldn't sleep and I didn't understand it.
I was like, my body is screaming for rest and why do I wake up? At one or two or three every morning and I don't go back to sleep and it's just miserable and it took a lot of visits to doctors who ran everything and my doctor was even very diligent and ran panels that I don't think generally get run and they stuffed like cameras down my throat to see if there's stuff in my gut and things and nobody found anything. And then I was like, well, this is like something's wrong. And so I dug deeper, went into working with naturopaths, went into working with functional diagnostic [00:03:00] practitioners who finally ran different tests, put everything together, and I could sleep again. And that was kind of that moment where
I was like, Oh, you know, if you can't sleep, you can't heal but also if we're not sleeping, our body just starts getting sicker over time, potentially. And if we're already, if our bucket's already a little fuller, and we're then not sleeping, it kind of overflows. And so I was starting to talk to people and I was like, there's so many people out there who don't sleep.
So that's kind of how I learned that sleep is a complex thing. It should be really natural to every one of us or most of us. Yes, there are some people who have an illness that will prevent them, but that's a minority, right? Generally, everybody should be able to sleep.
Julie Michelson: for sure.
Annika Carroll: And if we don't, we have to really dig into why that is.
And those could be different reasons for different people. But we should all be able to do it. And if we're not, we're just not supporting our system in an adequate way. So, it is my passion to help other people [00:04:00] with it, for sure.
Julie Michelson: I get it. This is, you know, this is how we land in the wellness space, right? Is, um, when we have complex, complicated histories that took a long time to figure out. And it's like, Oh, we can, we can do this faster. We can help people shortcut now.
And I love that you said if you can't sleep, you cannot heal. You just can't. And, and so, so let's talk about, let's start with what are some of these causes of insomnia, whether it be, and I don't know if you differentiate between trouble falling asleep or also so common like you experienced is that wake up, you know, somewhere between one and three in the morning.
Um, so, so what are, what are some things. I'm sure when you first are working with people, even before the labs come back, you have an idea maybe of what's going on.
Annika Carroll: Yeah, there and, and maybe [00:05:00] we'll break it down and onto two different levels and get to that falling asleep and staying asleep. So I, from the way I look at sleep is to me, there's three big buckets that we have to look at. The one is what I call behavior. Is my behavior throughout the day, contributing to my ability to fall asleep?
Or am I hindering my ability to fall asleep or sleep through the night? And I'm just giving one right now that is very obvious to people. Do I drink coffee at 5 p. m? Just so you know what I mean by behavior.
Am I doing things with my nutrition, with my lifestyle, with my thinking that are not sleep inducing? Um, the other big one I see, that is something I often see with people who start to have trouble with sleep in any which way, is mindset. Because we start to tell ourselves a story. I'm a bad sleeper. This is going to happen [00:06:00] to me tomorrow again. How I'm going to make it through the day, I have no idea.
There is big important meetings tomorrow. How can I even manage this? My body is just like... Broken. Um, none of that is actually true. All of those are stories and thoughts, right? And, but that is a big thing. That's what happens to people because of those experiences. And that can often be a self sabotaging behavior or thing that just makes sleep impossible.
If we tell our body it can't sleep, it can't sleep. Because it's going to protect you and keep you up at night. And you're like, great. The third bucket, so behavior and mindset, and then the third bucket that I see, and that's often people who come to me when we're at that stage, is physiological. So there's something wrong in the body that hinders your body to get into this safe state of letting go and falling asleep. [00:07:00] Or that hinders the body from sleeping through the night.
And a lot of my clients, they are often like, I've done all the sleep hygiene. I turned my phone off. I have the bedroom dark.
I do all this stuff and I still have problems. And my doctors have run all the labs and everything comes back normal. Um, But something's still wrong. And it's often a combination of all of these actually.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, it reminds me of, I remember I used to, you know, say, oh, you know, what's the root cause, right? Like one thing. Um, and it's, it's never, you can't separate those threads and it, because one does lead to another too.
Annika Carroll: And they do in, in like reciprocal ways, which is the problem, right? It's like the bad behavior leads to the physiological issue. But if you had a physiological issue, it can also trigger bad behavior
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And
Annika Carroll: bad choices and mindset. It's kind of all intertwined.
Julie Michelson: yeah, yeah. It's hard. I know. It's so [00:08:00] difficult. Um, because not surprising. A lot of my autoimmune clients have sleep challenges when we're getting started and there is. Such an important thing about -and it's so easy for me to say sitting here- holding it a little more lightly, right?
Because when you get in bed and you're immediately in your head of like, Oh, am I going to sleep tonight? Is it going to happen again? You know, like, like you said, you're then you're creating that reality through those stories. So I love that. You point out that, you know, there may be a hierarchy of, of, you know, these buckets, depending on the person, but it ends up usually being all three down the road.
So, yeah, yeah, amazing. So I want to talk a little bit because it's my. favorite topic in the world is because I'm just such a geek is [00:09:00] inflammation and, and everything, you know, we say and do and all these things. I mean, all, all of this, whether it's autoimmunity wellness in general, you know, just health span, it all comes down to inflammation and chronic inflammation.
So how. How do you see inflammation directly impacting sleep?
Annika Carroll: Yes, maybe I'll take it 1 step back and quickly describe a little bit of the process of sleep in terms of hormones and everything that's involved. So people then get where I'm coming from.
Julie Michelson: Perfect.
Annika Carroll: to make it very simple, there are. Two, there's more, but we'll, we'll simplify it a little. There's two main hormones that guide what we call our circadian rhythm, our sleep wake cycle.
Um, the idea of the human circadian [00:10:00] rhythm is that we are up when the sun is up and we are down when the sun is down. This does not apply to shift workers, but in general, that is how the human body would ideally operate. So back in the day, we would be out with sunrise. And when the sun goes down, we would be in our caves with the fire.
And then we would turn the fire, like the fire would go off and we will go to sleep. How does the body do this? The body does that through releasing or excreting hormones, cortisol and melatonin. And people might've heard of melatonin because a lot of people use it as a sleep supplement. Um, But the important hormone here is cortisol, and cortisol is, has a bit of a bad rep as a stress hormone, but it's actually what gives you energy.
Julie Michelson: Sure. We need to, we want our cortisol to
Annika Carroll: want cortisol, and we want good amounts of cortisol, we just want them at the right time of day.
Julie Michelson: Mm
Annika Carroll: We want it to... Coming in the morning and really the body to power up cortisol [00:11:00] that gives us energy for the day that helps do all kinds of things, our metabolism, our blood sugar regulation, all these things are dependent on cortisol and we want cortisol to come down nicely throughout the afternoon, get lower in the evening and then melatonin comes in and melatonin rises and should be able to make you fall asleep and then help you sleep through the night.
Um, so this should be like, okay. A good balance of how these two work with each other. The interesting thing about that is how the body knows when to release what,
Julie Michelson: Mm
Annika Carroll: to release cortisol, and when to release melatonin, all depends on light or the absence of light.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: The day, like the sun or the moon, basically, um, how much light at what degree falls into the retina of your eye and then you can imagine there's like a timer in your brain that gets set and that tells the body when to release, not just cortisol and melatonin, all kinds of other hormones.[00:12:00]
But those two, and if that works well, you can sleep well, you'll have energy throughout the day and you'll sleep well overnight. Now, if we have inflammation,
Julie Michelson: Mm hmm.
Annika Carroll: what a lot of people don't know is cortisol is an anti inflammatory, a great one. It helps the body, it helps the immune system manage inflammation.
So it could be acute. So like the classic example is the paper cut, right? You slice your finger on a piece of paper. Maybe it starts bleeding and it becomes quite red before it heals. Um, that's inflammation. That's acute inflammation. That's your body sending all its goodies to heal that cut and cortisol will be there to rev up the immune system and help with that immune response.
So that's acute. That's gonna go away. Fine. We're back in balance. If we constantly have inflammation, residing from the gut, [00:13:00] making its way through the system, our body will constantly release cortisol in amounts that are potentially not healthy because they're not being released at the time of day in the proper quantities that we want.
And it can hinder melatonin's ability to do its job. If this goes on for too long, Um, because a lot of us don't even know that we have inflammation and we just live our lives and wonder why we're so exhausted. Then at some point, your body is like, you know what, there's so much inflammation. I'm doing everything I can, but it's just my capacity. It just isn't there.
And it will either just downregulate its immune response, so you might be getting sick a lot more, might be catching every cold on the planet, um, because the immune system just is not strong enough, and you might start seeing changes in your circadian rhythm. Like we sometimes also then see people who are like, you know what, I'm getting this, like, I'm really tired all day and then at nine [00:14:00] o'clock at night, I'm like, now I could work.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: It's like,
Julie Michelson: It's common. It
Annika Carroll: it is very common, but it's not intent, like we're
Julie Michelson: It's not ideal. Not optimal.
Annika Carroll: no. And is that something you can do for a few weeks, maybe technically? It's not ideal because a lot of people can't, like, you can't come back, but coming back is the problem. So it's really that connection to understand that cortisol is an anti inflammatory agent.
And if we have inflammation, and like we said, so many people have it and don't know, that is often one of the key drivers. And if then cortisol is in the system for too, in too high amounts, we have a problem with melatonin.
So we cannot sleep through the night often. Our liver gets really stressed. Another one of those pesky 3am things, right? Eventually your thyroid's going to be affected because your thyroid's like, if you're going 180 miles an hour on cortisol all the time, I'm going to slow down because [00:15:00] I'm here, the metabolism regulator, and I'm not pushing the gas pedal if you're high on cortisol because you burn the body out immediately.
So the body is really smart, but it down regulates. Eventually, when cortisol becomes lower, another hormone becomes lower, and that's called DHEA. That is like a counterbalancing hormone to cortisol. If that goes down and is not adjusted, your sex hormones are going down.
Julie Michelson: All of, yeah, that's
Annika Carroll: Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and, and what we're always, people are like, oh, is this really such a big, if you don't have your sex hormones right either, and your sleep can be affected by that too.
I see it all the time in clients, but that is often not the root cause. Yes, there is perimenopause, menopause, there's andropause, there are changes in flux, but the root cause often is inflammation that just has been lingering for so long and has had its implications, and then people never [00:16:00] slept well and never restored the system.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And this is the, the, the hormone balance is so essential. This is one of those things that can go in all kinds of directions because as women, it is common when, if somebody is estrogen dominant or going through perimenopause, you know, as their progesterone drops. And, and especially if they've got a lot of estrone or, you know, inflammatory estrogen, it will affect their sleep and, and, you know, getting those hormones balanced.
This is, again, we're talking early in the cycle. We're not talking about somebody who has insomnia for years, but it's amazing, you know, where, when you can get those hormones rebalanced sleep, all of a sudden people are like, Oh, I'm sleeping like a rock star, you know?
So, say somebody has that going on and it's not treated, then you can totally get into [00:17:00] that, that cycle and then you've got that chronic inflammation, you've got the chronic sleep challenges, and it becomes, and then we won't talk about it but I can't talk about sleep and not mention detox, like we're, our brain is detoxing when we sleep, we're, as you mentioned, we're healing when we sleep. So, I would say the sooner people can interrupt that, that cycle.
Um, and thank you for the, the nice explanation for people on, on how. You know, cortisol, a melatonin play. My clients always think I'm nuts when the first thing we start to do with sleep is, you know, am sunlight in your eyes without your sunglasses on.
And they're like, no, no, no, but, but my problems at night. And I'm like, Oh, but it starts in the morning. So
Annika Carroll: Exactly. That's the thing, right? Your bedtime routine starts in the morning. What you do that one isn't that time routine important? Yes. Cause we need to wind down, but that last hour isn't going [00:18:00] to cut it. If everything you've done throughout the day was.
Julie Michelson: Counterproductive. Yeah.
Annika Carroll: Is that not just not going to cut it?
And, and because of that light and dark relation of cortisol and melatonin, that is why that morning light is so crucial. And what it does also, like, that's what I hear from clients. All the time within a week, you're like, my afternoon energy is so good. And I'm kind of sliding into the evening. I'm not like dumping.
And then I need something that I know I shouldn't be having because you're not going to caffeine anymore. They're going to go to sugar. So that just makes it so much smoother and it's, it's free and it's technically so easy to do. And once you have the habit of it and you feel the benefit, it makes it easy to keep going.
Julie Michelson: it really does. It's so and again, you know, we're living we have all this technology. You and I are, you know, looking at blue blue light right now [00:19:00] happens to be morning, you know, that's so, um, but we need to actually all take action to protect that natural cycle or return to that natural cycle, because I loved how you mentioned even, even the fire.
I mean, I have in my bedroom, I have red lights, like my, my light bulbs are red because, you know, that that's the kind of light we were getting in our eyes before we would go to sleep. And so my brain, I can feel my brain sigh. When it just, you know, it's that cue, it's like, huh. Oh, good.
Annika Carroll: I totally agree. And I think the, um, and some people might be like, Oh my God, red lights in my bedroom. Like this all just sounds like
Julie Michelson: We joke. It does look a
Annika Carroll: would be doing.
Julie Michelson: it looks a little like a brothel from the outside. It does.
Annika Carroll: that too. Yeah. And I get it. But what I always tell my clients, [00:20:00] like the number one thing I think in the household that we often forget about, because they're everywhere, are pot lights. And pot lights are not just, and we had some put in like two years ago, and I've been talking to people, it's like,
Julie Michelson: the, in the States, we call them can lights, but yeah, yeah. Oh, and actually all light bulbs, unless you're making intentional choices.
Annika Carroll: Yes. And like, that's what we do. Like, we do that. But the light, the, the ones that are in the ceiling are so bright. Like you can basically, there's not many manufacturers where you can even get a different hue that it's just more orangey red. And the important thing there is what we never think about is where's the light coming from.
It's straight. Above you. So the angle that it falls into your eye, your brain thinks it's 12 o'clock noon. And why should I release melatonin at 12 o'clock noon? I'm not set up that way. So it will not do that. So if you have those lights and you can put [00:21:00] them on a dimmer. Is the first thing I do the other thing really try like in the kitchen if you have under counter lighting, turn that on everything that's below eye level side table lamps, you know, we some people don't have them anymore, but we used to have these in the living rooms next to our couches.
And then you can read your book and the light shines on the book and not in your eyes. That's all great. Those kinds of things like really avoid that overhead light at night. So your brain doesn't think. It's party time.
Mm
Julie Michelson: I love that. And the kind of light bulb matters as well. And so the home I'm in, well, it's not that new anymore. Now it's about 6 years old, but even 6 years ago, I had to fight. built the home and I had to kind of fight with the electricians because I said I don't want LED lights in my house and I don't want fluorescent lights in my house and they were [00:22:00] like that's insane that's ridiculous that's and I know now they are making Like you said, you know, there, you have to be intentional to, to, to find the warmer hues.
Um, but I have old school, old fashioned incandescent lights in
Annika Carroll: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: Um, because I could, I could make that decision. , And so, I actually do know people that don't use lights at night, they only use, you know, candles, and, um, then you have to be careful about the, that's not so, well, and, and the, you know, what kind of candles, they're not always so healthy either.
But, but that's the thing we don't actually have to live like cave people, we can compensate. Um, and so I love, I love that suggestion of, you know, really pay attention to that angle of the light. And, and again, I guess maybe it is old school, get some lamps.[00:23:00]
So how do you go about finding, you know, what is going on with your clients, whether it was looking for inflammation or determining, you know, where you, where you really need to address with them.
Annika Carroll: So what I do is I, the one thing I do is I run a bunch of functional tests on them. So I do look at their gut. Because that is the source of the problem often, and that's where we find the leaky gut. So if we have the leaky gut, we have systemic inflammation, we often have inflammation in the brain.
And if we have inflammation in the brain, there is no way you're going to get a good night's sleep. Like, it's just not happening. So we can seal that gut and get that out of the system. And then they're a lot better. There could be, from a sleep perspective, in general, there could also be some other things in the gut that cause sleep.
Candida overgrowth, yeast infections is a nasty one for sleep, like people often don't know that, but it is so [00:24:00] nasty if you get Candida out, people sleep a lot better. Parasites, people always tell me I, there's no way I have parasites, I've maybe even never left the country in my life. Oops, there they show, right, it's like, they're everywhere.
Um. And then I look at hormones. So, of course, I look at your cortisol pattern. I look at your melatonin. I look at your sex hormones. So we run the Dutch test. Um, then I look at nutrient deficiencies in heavy metals, because nutrient deficiencies, if we are, if we have, like, an imbalance in calcium, magnesium, for instance, because people often supplement magnesium when they can't sleep, which is, Great.
It's just we kind of have to watch out that the rest of the body doesn't get out of whack if we're doing certain things for too long or too high doses, because calcium is a very calming mineral can very much support in sleep. Um, if we have heavy metals, mercury. Lead. Those kinds of things rev up your system.
They [00:25:00] need to not be there. Um, copper is a huge one for anxiety. I often see it in women who've been on birth control. Some women are on copper IUDs.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: Um, they take, um, antihistamine sleeping pills at night. As soon as we see that and we address that, the anxiety gets, goes away and then we can work on the rest.
Like that's really, copper is a big one. And the other thing I've started doing now and I'm seeing very good results with that is neurotransmitter testing.
Julie Michelson: Love it.
Annika Carroll: So we look into those campaign call messengers that can either like basically rev up your system or calm down your system. And we need them both.
So adrenaline, serotonin, all those kinds of fun things. And they need to be in a healthy ratio to each other. And if ratios are reversed sometimes that really has a big issue on, uh, with sleep. People have big [00:26:00] issues with sleep and I see it. You see the correlation. I have one client right now. This poor person does not have a microbiome.
Julie Michelson: Hmm.
Annika Carroll: literally there's almost nothing left in this person's gut in terms of good bacteria. We don't have a lot of overgrowth, but we just don't have like keystroma. This person's neurotransmitters are tanked
Julie Michelson: Sure. That's where your neurotransmitters are made.
Annika Carroll: So it's all it all works together. But then if we can support her and I don't want people on like a massive supplement regime for the rest of their lives, but I want them to go into a place where their body's able to pick back up and do these things.
So we do all that functional testing. The other thing I do with people is I look at "What's 24 hours in your day like?"
Julie Michelson: Sure.
Annika Carroll: What are you doing when? Are there, when are you eating? What are you eating? When are you exercising? What are you doing there? How's your stress management? All those kinds of things.
And then we do, in [00:27:00] correlation with the gut testing, we do look at diet for sure. Because talking inflammation, right? Like a lot of people, like if we say it starts in the gut, it starts with. What do we eat? What do we breathe? What do we drink? Right? That's where the inflammation doesn't just show up in the gut.
It comes from something and nutrition. So what we eat or consume is one of the biggest contributors. So we need to make sure that that is in a state. That is good for the body and potentially at least in the beginning in a more restricted state so the body can heal because it's just at that place where it just, it just needs a breather, like, and then, right, so we need the whole person does because you're not sleeping but we need to kind of find those puzzle pieces that will just give the body.
A way to reduce cortisol overall, [00:28:00] let it breathe and then let it get to healing and to sleep.
Julie Michelson: So I can't help myself on this as it could be a rabbit hole, but you, you, you dropped a teaser. Are there certain foods in your work when you're creating that restricted period? Do you have foods that you just for everybody say, Hey, let's pause these things.
Annika Carroll: Yes, I, and to me, there is, there's one food where I am super strict and that is gluten
Julie Michelson: Uh huh.
Annika Carroll: and everything else I want people to try their best. Diet changes are really hard, depending also, do you have a family and they don't want to come along and then you need to start finding ways, um, try your best with everything else.
The things that I definitely, so gluten for sure, alcohol and sugar need to go for a certain amount of time. If we're trying to fix sleep, those are not helpful. [00:29:00] And with sugar, I mean, processed added things. Can you have some maple syrup, some honeys and things like that? Yes, you can in moderation.
I do like to restrict dairy. At least in the beginning, um, that's often very hard for people because like, especially cheeses with how it works in the body is a very difficult thing for people to give up, but we often have digestive issues anyhow, like a lot of my clients either have constipation or diarrhea or something.
So when we take dairy out, I often say just do it for a week. Just give it a try.
Julie Michelson: you're so much more gentle than I am.
Annika Carroll: Yeah, but the digestion improves in three days. Basically, they're like, Oh, my God. I'm like, I told you it was the cheese. So we take that out. And to me, we need to take it out a bit and then put it back in at a later stage once we've healed the gut, and depending on also how their calcium levels look and things will kind of, because it's very high in calcium and not so high in magnesium.[00:30:00]
So we kind of look at that a little. Um, and then it depends on what we find on the gut test like if somebody has candida there's a few things I'll have to cut out. Even though they might be great, but like your sauerkraut and fermented things might not be so great for a minute until we have that sorted and then everything can come back in.
But yeah, it's basically the, I would say I start with the really big offenders. So things that most people react to, so gluten, dairy, sugar, alcohol, for sure. And anything that you know, that you get some weird, funny feeling in the stomach the minute you ate it, you get bloating, things that make your tongue feel funny, your skin itchy.
Because a lot of people have actually quite a list, but those things are just so nice to eat sometimes, right? Because, like, your body craves them sometimes, even though it knows they're not so great. And those I would really also take out, because they just always cause that immune response in [00:31:00] the gut, and we already have the information, and we don't want to...
Pour more oil in the fire, basically.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, no,
Annika Carroll: But are you more, are you more strict with your, uh, diet?
Julie Michelson: I am, , I individualize , for my clients, for sure. And, and yes, the, all of those are definitely included. I, I do a lot of food sensitivity panels as well, because, you know, I know that when somebody has auto immunity, there's no question. Do they have leaky gut? Yes, you have leaky gut. Yeah.
And, but I'm, I'm like you, I actually go even like I tell again, especially if we're talking about people with an autoimmune diagnosis, that gluten really does need to be cut. There is no kind of sorta gluten free, like you, this is something you are going to need to avoid. We do a reintroduction because I want them to feel how horrible they feel once they're cleaned.[00:32:00]
But yeah, and then I like I'm going after those food sensitivities as well for that same reason because so many people have come in and they've been really On, on plan already with diet, but they didn't heal the leaky gut. And so, you know, then they've got the sensitivities to those, you know, wonderful nutrient dense veggies they've been eating because they're good for you.
So yeah, that's
Annika Carroll: Yeah, I totally, and that's it. Like, I think I had a client and it's funny with the gluten because I had a client. She has lichen, and she was on a cortisone cream forever, which totally wrecked her adrenals. And, um, I was like, well, we have to get you off that cortisone cream. And then, and I was like, and by the way, we're cutting gluten.
And then she was like, well, this is going to be so hard. Cause my boyfriend's family is actually Italian. So there comes the pasta, right? And they did it. And within like two weeks, she's like, that is gone. And then she reintroduced sourdough, which worked a certain kind from a certain bakery [00:33:00] work.
And then she, they bought the wrong bread. And she's like, I'm having a full flare up. What am I doing? I'm like, yeah, this and this, and this is what we're doing. It's gone. Like, and people are always like, they sometimes tell me like at the end of working together, they were like, Oh, I actually had this condition.
That they never mentioned,
Julie Michelson: right.
Annika Carroll: they're like, this is actually now gone. I'm like, and I'm telling you, if that's you, do not put gluten in your system ever. Like, ideally, if you can, never again. And then they try it, and they get the flare up, and they're like, oh yeah, okay, let's not do it. And that's great. If that's your trigger, and that's in the end, all, like, brings you such relief.
Great. And sometimes it's funny like, talking about food sensitivities. I don't so much run them on clients anymore, just sometimes, because I had a guy, super healthy, can't sleep, tried everything, gluten free, gluten comes back elevated on the test, right? So we're like, I'm like, no, we're digging, like, and even as doctors, GI doctors, I guess, I'm [00:34:00] like, no, we're digging.
And so he's Mr. Super healthy. The only food he eats, like grainy, carby type stuff is rice. I'm like, no, we're testing, like, come on my seat, we're taking this out for now. You're not healing because you keep... Putting the same food into your body every day, that is one of your main offenders.
Julie Michelson: Right. Well, and that's, I used to do that was, you know, we would do the protocol and then if we weren't getting the results we wanted, we would, I would then do the, the sensitivity panel, but for the most part, by the time people are coming to me, you know, specifically for autoimmunity, they, they don't want to, you know, wait and I
Annika Carroll: No, you want the information
Julie Michelson: yeah. And I don't like That elimination phase to be longer than it needs to either, you know, and so, um, the, the toughest are the people that don't feel the flare from the gluten. And [00:35:00] the reason why I say never, ever, ever, you do all this work to heal your gut back up and, and restore that gut barrier.
And we know it's not a theory anymore. We know it's science gluten causes leaky gut. It's not the only cause, but so why would you mess with it? If you put all that work in, it just doesn't make sense.
So, you were talking about neurotransmitters before, I see so many people and all of a sudden anxiety is gone, right? So, um, it's, it's lots of fun and yeah, we are complex humans and, the gut is really important for sleep, inflammation, pain, fatigue, all the things is you have to address the gut health.
Annika Carroll: Absolutely.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. I love it. I love it. So what is one, I know you gave us some tips, but this is your opportunity to either add or highlight.
What is one step that listeners can [00:36:00] take starting today to improve their sleep?
Annika Carroll: Well, we talked about, and I'm going to reiterate and then maybe give one more. The one that you talked about with what you do with all your clients, get sunlight within the first, I always say 30 minutes after waking up and what does sunlight mean, natural light, either open your window all the way so you can see the sky, not through the glass, but you're actually looking outside, sit there with a cup of warm water or something and look at the sky for 10 minutes, Or step on your porch, or if you have a dog, go and walk the dog early, and that sets your cortisol and your melatonin for the day, and it is game changer.
If you do that, that is game changer. And, if you can get a few more touch points throughout the day, where you have, even if it's five minutes, go outside and give your body that, without sunglasses that [00:37:00] moment. That light that comes into your eyes and we don't need to stare at the sun for that because we don't want to hurt our eyes.
But you just need that light exposure outside and that gives the brain more input on what time it is because the sun changes its angle at which it hits your eye and with that the body knows what time it is. That's the only way you know when you if you ever work in an office that has no windows you have no clue what time it is.
And that is basically why, because you don't see how the light changes. Um, so that's a big one. Um, the other one is for people either when you have trouble falling asleep or when you wake up and like your monkey brain kind of goes on, um, do a brain dump at the end of the day.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So, so helpful.
Annika Carroll: And so easy to do so you can do it either like directly at the end of your workday or maybe [00:38:00] after dinner.
I wouldn't do it too close to bedtime necessarily so not like half an hour before bed, but before that is fine and you can just take a piece of paper, and you write down everything that's on your mind and it doesn't have to, it's not a to do list. That's not the intention. You can turn that into a to do list the next day, but the, so you can write down, oh, still have to call mom, have to pick up the kids from soccer tomorrow, need to book the dentist appointment.
If those are things that are on your mind at that moment. Just let it all flow on the paper. But you can also write things like, if that's still in it, person cut me off today, really annoyed me, somebody took my parking spot. that client of mine didn't do like that protocol as much, like makes me a bit sad or frustrated or, um, I need to talk to them about that, or I still need to go to the grocery store, like anything that comes to mind on the paper, because your [00:39:00] brain sees, Oh, it's safe. Somebody's taking care of it. It's actually written down. So I don't need to keep that in here, which a gives you more capacity, but B just helps people to not have this anxiety build up from, Oh, I forgot something.
I need to still do this. I need to still do that. And if that is something that happens at night to you, when you wake up, also have a piece of paper and a pen next to you. Write it down, and then you should be able to turn around and somewhat quickly fall back asleep, rather than ruminating over these things.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So, so helpful. I've seen it be so impactful. It's a great exercise. It really is. It's a good release. Thanks. Especially to break cycles, you know, somebody's in that deep cycle of it's been, you know, or they have put on that identity. I'm just a bad sleeper.
Annika Carroll: No, you're not. You can, you can address that. And yes, the longer we, we've done it, the longer it might take.
Julie Michelson: sure.
Annika Carroll: But you can address that. If you're somebody who has the [00:40:00] motivation to do it, I think that's the most important thing, right?
Julie Michelson: I love it. Anika, for people listening on the go, where's the best place to find you?
Annika Carroll: The best place to find me is... I would say either sleeplikeaboss.com, the website where we have tons of blog posts and tons of information or YouTube. I have a podcast, it's the Sleep Like a Boss podcast, but you can listen to it also on video on YouTube or you do the, those are probably the biggest ones I am on Instagram, but I'm not the most active person on Instagram.
Julie Michelson: I get it. We're busy and with our real life. It's okay. I'm giving you permission.
Annika Carroll: Thank you.
Julie Michelson: I love it. Thank you so, so much. This has been amazing. And I know listeners are going to get just a ton of value out of this. Um, because sleep is essential. We, we all need to, and we can all up level and so [00:41:00] whether you're somebody who is stuck in that cycle or not, there's just amazing gold in this episode.
For everyone listening, remember you can get the transcripts and show notes at inspiredliving.show. Hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week. [00:42:00]
Anika shares her knowledge about gut health and sleep. And she provides many essential tips for improving [00:01:00] your sleep, whether you are struggling with insomnia or you're just ready to optimize. Anika, welcome to the podcast.
Annika Carroll: Thank you so much, Julie, for having me. I'm excited.
Julie Michelson: I am as well. This is such an important conversation and, and such a, a common challenge for people. Um, but I would love for you to share with listeners your journey. I know you have personal experience with sleep challenges. Um, so how did you become the sleep specialist?
Annika Carroll: You know, it kind of, I used to think sleep was my superpower, like in my 20s and 30s. I was like, I would hit the pillow every night. I was out. I would wake up 30 minutes before the alarm. I would go, go, go. It wasn't a big deal. Then I had my son, which was a very traumatic experience because he was a super preemy.
And spent months in the NICU and that whole experience just [00:02:00] kind of revved up the nervous system a little. And then I went back to work like a year later and then had like really worked myself into a burnout. And the interesting thing when I couldn't work, I was exhausted and I couldn't sleep and I didn't understand it.
I was like, my body is screaming for rest and why do I wake up? At one or two or three every morning and I don't go back to sleep and it's just miserable and it took a lot of visits to doctors who ran everything and my doctor was even very diligent and ran panels that I don't think generally get run and they stuffed like cameras down my throat to see if there's stuff in my gut and things and nobody found anything. And then I was like, well, this is like something's wrong. And so I dug deeper, went into working with naturopaths, went into working with functional diagnostic [00:03:00] practitioners who finally ran different tests, put everything together, and I could sleep again. And that was kind of that moment where
I was like, Oh, you know, if you can't sleep, you can't heal but also if we're not sleeping, our body just starts getting sicker over time, potentially. And if we're already, if our bucket's already a little fuller, and we're then not sleeping, it kind of overflows. And so I was starting to talk to people and I was like, there's so many people out there who don't sleep.
So that's kind of how I learned that sleep is a complex thing. It should be really natural to every one of us or most of us. Yes, there are some people who have an illness that will prevent them, but that's a minority, right? Generally, everybody should be able to sleep.
Julie Michelson: for sure.
Annika Carroll: And if we don't, we have to really dig into why that is.
And those could be different reasons for different people. But we should all be able to do it. And if we're not, we're just not supporting our system in an adequate way. So, it is my passion to help other people [00:04:00] with it, for sure.
Julie Michelson: I get it. This is, you know, this is how we land in the wellness space, right? Is, um, when we have complex, complicated histories that took a long time to figure out. And it's like, Oh, we can, we can do this faster. We can help people shortcut now.
And I love that you said if you can't sleep, you cannot heal. You just can't. And, and so, so let's talk about, let's start with what are some of these causes of insomnia, whether it be, and I don't know if you differentiate between trouble falling asleep or also so common like you experienced is that wake up, you know, somewhere between one and three in the morning.
Um, so, so what are, what are some things. I'm sure when you first are working with people, even before the labs come back, you have an idea maybe of what's going on.
Annika Carroll: Yeah, there and, and maybe [00:05:00] we'll break it down and onto two different levels and get to that falling asleep and staying asleep. So I, from the way I look at sleep is to me, there's three big buckets that we have to look at. The one is what I call behavior. Is my behavior throughout the day, contributing to my ability to fall asleep?
Or am I hindering my ability to fall asleep or sleep through the night? And I'm just giving one right now that is very obvious to people. Do I drink coffee at 5 p. m? Just so you know what I mean by behavior.
Am I doing things with my nutrition, with my lifestyle, with my thinking that are not sleep inducing? Um, the other big one I see, that is something I often see with people who start to have trouble with sleep in any which way, is mindset. Because we start to tell ourselves a story. I'm a bad sleeper. This is going to happen [00:06:00] to me tomorrow again. How I'm going to make it through the day, I have no idea.
There is big important meetings tomorrow. How can I even manage this? My body is just like... Broken. Um, none of that is actually true. All of those are stories and thoughts, right? And, but that is a big thing. That's what happens to people because of those experiences. And that can often be a self sabotaging behavior or thing that just makes sleep impossible.
If we tell our body it can't sleep, it can't sleep. Because it's going to protect you and keep you up at night. And you're like, great. The third bucket, so behavior and mindset, and then the third bucket that I see, and that's often people who come to me when we're at that stage, is physiological. So there's something wrong in the body that hinders your body to get into this safe state of letting go and falling asleep. [00:07:00] Or that hinders the body from sleeping through the night.
And a lot of my clients, they are often like, I've done all the sleep hygiene. I turned my phone off. I have the bedroom dark.
I do all this stuff and I still have problems. And my doctors have run all the labs and everything comes back normal. Um, But something's still wrong. And it's often a combination of all of these actually.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, it reminds me of, I remember I used to, you know, say, oh, you know, what's the root cause, right? Like one thing. Um, and it's, it's never, you can't separate those threads and it, because one does lead to another too.
Annika Carroll: And they do in, in like reciprocal ways, which is the problem, right? It's like the bad behavior leads to the physiological issue. But if you had a physiological issue, it can also trigger bad behavior
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And
Annika Carroll: bad choices and mindset. It's kind of all intertwined.
Julie Michelson: yeah, yeah. It's hard. I know. It's so [00:08:00] difficult. Um, because not surprising. A lot of my autoimmune clients have sleep challenges when we're getting started and there is. Such an important thing about -and it's so easy for me to say sitting here- holding it a little more lightly, right?
Because when you get in bed and you're immediately in your head of like, Oh, am I going to sleep tonight? Is it going to happen again? You know, like, like you said, you're then you're creating that reality through those stories. So I love that. You point out that, you know, there may be a hierarchy of, of, you know, these buckets, depending on the person, but it ends up usually being all three down the road.
So, yeah, yeah, amazing. So I want to talk a little bit because it's my. favorite topic in the world is because I'm just such a geek is [00:09:00] inflammation and, and everything, you know, we say and do and all these things. I mean, all, all of this, whether it's autoimmunity wellness in general, you know, just health span, it all comes down to inflammation and chronic inflammation.
So how. How do you see inflammation directly impacting sleep?
Annika Carroll: Yes, maybe I'll take it 1 step back and quickly describe a little bit of the process of sleep in terms of hormones and everything that's involved. So people then get where I'm coming from.
Julie Michelson: Perfect.
Annika Carroll: to make it very simple, there are. Two, there's more, but we'll, we'll simplify it a little. There's two main hormones that guide what we call our circadian rhythm, our sleep wake cycle.
Um, the idea of the human circadian [00:10:00] rhythm is that we are up when the sun is up and we are down when the sun is down. This does not apply to shift workers, but in general, that is how the human body would ideally operate. So back in the day, we would be out with sunrise. And when the sun goes down, we would be in our caves with the fire.
And then we would turn the fire, like the fire would go off and we will go to sleep. How does the body do this? The body does that through releasing or excreting hormones, cortisol and melatonin. And people might've heard of melatonin because a lot of people use it as a sleep supplement. Um, But the important hormone here is cortisol, and cortisol is, has a bit of a bad rep as a stress hormone, but it's actually what gives you energy.
Julie Michelson: Sure. We need to, we want our cortisol to
Annika Carroll: want cortisol, and we want good amounts of cortisol, we just want them at the right time of day.
Julie Michelson: Mm
Annika Carroll: We want it to... Coming in the morning and really the body to power up cortisol [00:11:00] that gives us energy for the day that helps do all kinds of things, our metabolism, our blood sugar regulation, all these things are dependent on cortisol and we want cortisol to come down nicely throughout the afternoon, get lower in the evening and then melatonin comes in and melatonin rises and should be able to make you fall asleep and then help you sleep through the night.
Um, so this should be like, okay. A good balance of how these two work with each other. The interesting thing about that is how the body knows when to release what,
Julie Michelson: Mm
Annika Carroll: to release cortisol, and when to release melatonin, all depends on light or the absence of light.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: The day, like the sun or the moon, basically, um, how much light at what degree falls into the retina of your eye and then you can imagine there's like a timer in your brain that gets set and that tells the body when to release, not just cortisol and melatonin, all kinds of other hormones.[00:12:00]
But those two, and if that works well, you can sleep well, you'll have energy throughout the day and you'll sleep well overnight. Now, if we have inflammation,
Julie Michelson: Mm hmm.
Annika Carroll: what a lot of people don't know is cortisol is an anti inflammatory, a great one. It helps the body, it helps the immune system manage inflammation.
So it could be acute. So like the classic example is the paper cut, right? You slice your finger on a piece of paper. Maybe it starts bleeding and it becomes quite red before it heals. Um, that's inflammation. That's acute inflammation. That's your body sending all its goodies to heal that cut and cortisol will be there to rev up the immune system and help with that immune response.
So that's acute. That's gonna go away. Fine. We're back in balance. If we constantly have inflammation, residing from the gut, [00:13:00] making its way through the system, our body will constantly release cortisol in amounts that are potentially not healthy because they're not being released at the time of day in the proper quantities that we want.
And it can hinder melatonin's ability to do its job. If this goes on for too long, Um, because a lot of us don't even know that we have inflammation and we just live our lives and wonder why we're so exhausted. Then at some point, your body is like, you know what, there's so much inflammation. I'm doing everything I can, but it's just my capacity. It just isn't there.
And it will either just downregulate its immune response, so you might be getting sick a lot more, might be catching every cold on the planet, um, because the immune system just is not strong enough, and you might start seeing changes in your circadian rhythm. Like we sometimes also then see people who are like, you know what, I'm getting this, like, I'm really tired all day and then at nine [00:14:00] o'clock at night, I'm like, now I could work.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: It's like,
Julie Michelson: It's common. It
Annika Carroll: it is very common, but it's not intent, like we're
Julie Michelson: It's not ideal. Not optimal.
Annika Carroll: no. And is that something you can do for a few weeks, maybe technically? It's not ideal because a lot of people can't, like, you can't come back, but coming back is the problem. So it's really that connection to understand that cortisol is an anti inflammatory agent.
And if we have inflammation, and like we said, so many people have it and don't know, that is often one of the key drivers. And if then cortisol is in the system for too, in too high amounts, we have a problem with melatonin.
So we cannot sleep through the night often. Our liver gets really stressed. Another one of those pesky 3am things, right? Eventually your thyroid's going to be affected because your thyroid's like, if you're going 180 miles an hour on cortisol all the time, I'm going to slow down because [00:15:00] I'm here, the metabolism regulator, and I'm not pushing the gas pedal if you're high on cortisol because you burn the body out immediately.
So the body is really smart, but it down regulates. Eventually, when cortisol becomes lower, another hormone becomes lower, and that's called DHEA. That is like a counterbalancing hormone to cortisol. If that goes down and is not adjusted, your sex hormones are going down.
Julie Michelson: All of, yeah, that's
Annika Carroll: Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and, and what we're always, people are like, oh, is this really such a big, if you don't have your sex hormones right either, and your sleep can be affected by that too.
I see it all the time in clients, but that is often not the root cause. Yes, there is perimenopause, menopause, there's andropause, there are changes in flux, but the root cause often is inflammation that just has been lingering for so long and has had its implications, and then people never [00:16:00] slept well and never restored the system.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And this is the, the, the hormone balance is so essential. This is one of those things that can go in all kinds of directions because as women, it is common when, if somebody is estrogen dominant or going through perimenopause, you know, as their progesterone drops. And, and especially if they've got a lot of estrone or, you know, inflammatory estrogen, it will affect their sleep and, and, you know, getting those hormones balanced.
This is, again, we're talking early in the cycle. We're not talking about somebody who has insomnia for years, but it's amazing, you know, where, when you can get those hormones rebalanced sleep, all of a sudden people are like, Oh, I'm sleeping like a rock star, you know?
So, say somebody has that going on and it's not treated, then you can totally get into [00:17:00] that, that cycle and then you've got that chronic inflammation, you've got the chronic sleep challenges, and it becomes, and then we won't talk about it but I can't talk about sleep and not mention detox, like we're, our brain is detoxing when we sleep, we're, as you mentioned, we're healing when we sleep. So, I would say the sooner people can interrupt that, that cycle.
Um, and thank you for the, the nice explanation for people on, on how. You know, cortisol, a melatonin play. My clients always think I'm nuts when the first thing we start to do with sleep is, you know, am sunlight in your eyes without your sunglasses on.
And they're like, no, no, no, but, but my problems at night. And I'm like, Oh, but it starts in the morning. So
Annika Carroll: Exactly. That's the thing, right? Your bedtime routine starts in the morning. What you do that one isn't that time routine important? Yes. Cause we need to wind down, but that last hour isn't going [00:18:00] to cut it. If everything you've done throughout the day was.
Julie Michelson: Counterproductive. Yeah.
Annika Carroll: Is that not just not going to cut it?
And, and because of that light and dark relation of cortisol and melatonin, that is why that morning light is so crucial. And what it does also, like, that's what I hear from clients. All the time within a week, you're like, my afternoon energy is so good. And I'm kind of sliding into the evening. I'm not like dumping.
And then I need something that I know I shouldn't be having because you're not going to caffeine anymore. They're going to go to sugar. So that just makes it so much smoother and it's, it's free and it's technically so easy to do. And once you have the habit of it and you feel the benefit, it makes it easy to keep going.
Julie Michelson: it really does. It's so and again, you know, we're living we have all this technology. You and I are, you know, looking at blue blue light right now [00:19:00] happens to be morning, you know, that's so, um, but we need to actually all take action to protect that natural cycle or return to that natural cycle, because I loved how you mentioned even, even the fire.
I mean, I have in my bedroom, I have red lights, like my, my light bulbs are red because, you know, that that's the kind of light we were getting in our eyes before we would go to sleep. And so my brain, I can feel my brain sigh. When it just, you know, it's that cue, it's like, huh. Oh, good.
Annika Carroll: I totally agree. And I think the, um, and some people might be like, Oh my God, red lights in my bedroom. Like this all just sounds like
Julie Michelson: We joke. It does look a
Annika Carroll: would be doing.
Julie Michelson: it looks a little like a brothel from the outside. It does.
Annika Carroll: that too. Yeah. And I get it. But what I always tell my clients, [00:20:00] like the number one thing I think in the household that we often forget about, because they're everywhere, are pot lights. And pot lights are not just, and we had some put in like two years ago, and I've been talking to people, it's like,
Julie Michelson: the, in the States, we call them can lights, but yeah, yeah. Oh, and actually all light bulbs, unless you're making intentional choices.
Annika Carroll: Yes. And like, that's what we do. Like, we do that. But the light, the, the ones that are in the ceiling are so bright. Like you can basically, there's not many manufacturers where you can even get a different hue that it's just more orangey red. And the important thing there is what we never think about is where's the light coming from.
It's straight. Above you. So the angle that it falls into your eye, your brain thinks it's 12 o'clock noon. And why should I release melatonin at 12 o'clock noon? I'm not set up that way. So it will not do that. So if you have those lights and you can put [00:21:00] them on a dimmer. Is the first thing I do the other thing really try like in the kitchen if you have under counter lighting, turn that on everything that's below eye level side table lamps, you know, we some people don't have them anymore, but we used to have these in the living rooms next to our couches.
And then you can read your book and the light shines on the book and not in your eyes. That's all great. Those kinds of things like really avoid that overhead light at night. So your brain doesn't think. It's party time.
Mm
Julie Michelson: I love that. And the kind of light bulb matters as well. And so the home I'm in, well, it's not that new anymore. Now it's about 6 years old, but even 6 years ago, I had to fight. built the home and I had to kind of fight with the electricians because I said I don't want LED lights in my house and I don't want fluorescent lights in my house and they were [00:22:00] like that's insane that's ridiculous that's and I know now they are making Like you said, you know, there, you have to be intentional to, to, to find the warmer hues.
Um, but I have old school, old fashioned incandescent lights in
Annika Carroll: Mm hmm.
Julie Michelson: Um, because I could, I could make that decision. , And so, I actually do know people that don't use lights at night, they only use, you know, candles, and, um, then you have to be careful about the, that's not so, well, and, and the, you know, what kind of candles, they're not always so healthy either.
But, but that's the thing we don't actually have to live like cave people, we can compensate. Um, and so I love, I love that suggestion of, you know, really pay attention to that angle of the light. And, and again, I guess maybe it is old school, get some lamps.[00:23:00]
So how do you go about finding, you know, what is going on with your clients, whether it was looking for inflammation or determining, you know, where you, where you really need to address with them.
Annika Carroll: So what I do is I, the one thing I do is I run a bunch of functional tests on them. So I do look at their gut. Because that is the source of the problem often, and that's where we find the leaky gut. So if we have the leaky gut, we have systemic inflammation, we often have inflammation in the brain.
And if we have inflammation in the brain, there is no way you're going to get a good night's sleep. Like, it's just not happening. So we can seal that gut and get that out of the system. And then they're a lot better. There could be, from a sleep perspective, in general, there could also be some other things in the gut that cause sleep.
Candida overgrowth, yeast infections is a nasty one for sleep, like people often don't know that, but it is so [00:24:00] nasty if you get Candida out, people sleep a lot better. Parasites, people always tell me I, there's no way I have parasites, I've maybe even never left the country in my life. Oops, there they show, right, it's like, they're everywhere.
Um. And then I look at hormones. So, of course, I look at your cortisol pattern. I look at your melatonin. I look at your sex hormones. So we run the Dutch test. Um, then I look at nutrient deficiencies in heavy metals, because nutrient deficiencies, if we are, if we have, like, an imbalance in calcium, magnesium, for instance, because people often supplement magnesium when they can't sleep, which is, Great.
It's just we kind of have to watch out that the rest of the body doesn't get out of whack if we're doing certain things for too long or too high doses, because calcium is a very calming mineral can very much support in sleep. Um, if we have heavy metals, mercury. Lead. Those kinds of things rev up your system.
They [00:25:00] need to not be there. Um, copper is a huge one for anxiety. I often see it in women who've been on birth control. Some women are on copper IUDs.
Julie Michelson: Yep.
Annika Carroll: Um, they take, um, antihistamine sleeping pills at night. As soon as we see that and we address that, the anxiety gets, goes away and then we can work on the rest.
Like that's really, copper is a big one. And the other thing I've started doing now and I'm seeing very good results with that is neurotransmitter testing.
Julie Michelson: Love it.
Annika Carroll: So we look into those campaign call messengers that can either like basically rev up your system or calm down your system. And we need them both.
So adrenaline, serotonin, all those kinds of fun things. And they need to be in a healthy ratio to each other. And if ratios are reversed sometimes that really has a big issue on, uh, with sleep. People have big [00:26:00] issues with sleep and I see it. You see the correlation. I have one client right now. This poor person does not have a microbiome.
Julie Michelson: Hmm.
Annika Carroll: literally there's almost nothing left in this person's gut in terms of good bacteria. We don't have a lot of overgrowth, but we just don't have like keystroma. This person's neurotransmitters are tanked
Julie Michelson: Sure. That's where your neurotransmitters are made.
Annika Carroll: So it's all it all works together. But then if we can support her and I don't want people on like a massive supplement regime for the rest of their lives, but I want them to go into a place where their body's able to pick back up and do these things.
So we do all that functional testing. The other thing I do with people is I look at "What's 24 hours in your day like?"
Julie Michelson: Sure.
Annika Carroll: What are you doing when? Are there, when are you eating? What are you eating? When are you exercising? What are you doing there? How's your stress management? All those kinds of things.
And then we do, in [00:27:00] correlation with the gut testing, we do look at diet for sure. Because talking inflammation, right? Like a lot of people, like if we say it starts in the gut, it starts with. What do we eat? What do we breathe? What do we drink? Right? That's where the inflammation doesn't just show up in the gut.
It comes from something and nutrition. So what we eat or consume is one of the biggest contributors. So we need to make sure that that is in a state. That is good for the body and potentially at least in the beginning in a more restricted state so the body can heal because it's just at that place where it just, it just needs a breather, like, and then, right, so we need the whole person does because you're not sleeping but we need to kind of find those puzzle pieces that will just give the body.
A way to reduce cortisol overall, [00:28:00] let it breathe and then let it get to healing and to sleep.
Julie Michelson: So I can't help myself on this as it could be a rabbit hole, but you, you, you dropped a teaser. Are there certain foods in your work when you're creating that restricted period? Do you have foods that you just for everybody say, Hey, let's pause these things.
Annika Carroll: Yes, I, and to me, there is, there's one food where I am super strict and that is gluten
Julie Michelson: Uh huh.
Annika Carroll: and everything else I want people to try their best. Diet changes are really hard, depending also, do you have a family and they don't want to come along and then you need to start finding ways, um, try your best with everything else.
The things that I definitely, so gluten for sure, alcohol and sugar need to go for a certain amount of time. If we're trying to fix sleep, those are not helpful. [00:29:00] And with sugar, I mean, processed added things. Can you have some maple syrup, some honeys and things like that? Yes, you can in moderation.
I do like to restrict dairy. At least in the beginning, um, that's often very hard for people because like, especially cheeses with how it works in the body is a very difficult thing for people to give up, but we often have digestive issues anyhow, like a lot of my clients either have constipation or diarrhea or something.
So when we take dairy out, I often say just do it for a week. Just give it a try.
Julie Michelson: you're so much more gentle than I am.
Annika Carroll: Yeah, but the digestion improves in three days. Basically, they're like, Oh, my God. I'm like, I told you it was the cheese. So we take that out. And to me, we need to take it out a bit and then put it back in at a later stage once we've healed the gut, and depending on also how their calcium levels look and things will kind of, because it's very high in calcium and not so high in magnesium.[00:30:00]
So we kind of look at that a little. Um, and then it depends on what we find on the gut test like if somebody has candida there's a few things I'll have to cut out. Even though they might be great, but like your sauerkraut and fermented things might not be so great for a minute until we have that sorted and then everything can come back in.
But yeah, it's basically the, I would say I start with the really big offenders. So things that most people react to, so gluten, dairy, sugar, alcohol, for sure. And anything that you know, that you get some weird, funny feeling in the stomach the minute you ate it, you get bloating, things that make your tongue feel funny, your skin itchy.
Because a lot of people have actually quite a list, but those things are just so nice to eat sometimes, right? Because, like, your body craves them sometimes, even though it knows they're not so great. And those I would really also take out, because they just always cause that immune response in [00:31:00] the gut, and we already have the information, and we don't want to...
Pour more oil in the fire, basically.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, no,
Annika Carroll: But are you more, are you more strict with your, uh, diet?
Julie Michelson: I am, , I individualize , for my clients, for sure. And, and yes, the, all of those are definitely included. I, I do a lot of food sensitivity panels as well, because, you know, I know that when somebody has auto immunity, there's no question. Do they have leaky gut? Yes, you have leaky gut. Yeah.
And, but I'm, I'm like you, I actually go even like I tell again, especially if we're talking about people with an autoimmune diagnosis, that gluten really does need to be cut. There is no kind of sorta gluten free, like you, this is something you are going to need to avoid. We do a reintroduction because I want them to feel how horrible they feel once they're cleaned.[00:32:00]
But yeah, and then I like I'm going after those food sensitivities as well for that same reason because so many people have come in and they've been really On, on plan already with diet, but they didn't heal the leaky gut. And so, you know, then they've got the sensitivities to those, you know, wonderful nutrient dense veggies they've been eating because they're good for you.
So yeah, that's
Annika Carroll: Yeah, I totally, and that's it. Like, I think I had a client and it's funny with the gluten because I had a client. She has lichen, and she was on a cortisone cream forever, which totally wrecked her adrenals. And, um, I was like, well, we have to get you off that cortisone cream. And then, and I was like, and by the way, we're cutting gluten.
And then she was like, well, this is going to be so hard. Cause my boyfriend's family is actually Italian. So there comes the pasta, right? And they did it. And within like two weeks, she's like, that is gone. And then she reintroduced sourdough, which worked a certain kind from a certain bakery [00:33:00] work.
And then she, they bought the wrong bread. And she's like, I'm having a full flare up. What am I doing? I'm like, yeah, this and this, and this is what we're doing. It's gone. Like, and people are always like, they sometimes tell me like at the end of working together, they were like, Oh, I actually had this condition.
That they never mentioned,
Julie Michelson: right.
Annika Carroll: they're like, this is actually now gone. I'm like, and I'm telling you, if that's you, do not put gluten in your system ever. Like, ideally, if you can, never again. And then they try it, and they get the flare up, and they're like, oh yeah, okay, let's not do it. And that's great. If that's your trigger, and that's in the end, all, like, brings you such relief.
Great. And sometimes it's funny like, talking about food sensitivities. I don't so much run them on clients anymore, just sometimes, because I had a guy, super healthy, can't sleep, tried everything, gluten free, gluten comes back elevated on the test, right? So we're like, I'm like, no, we're digging, like, and even as doctors, GI doctors, I guess, I'm [00:34:00] like, no, we're digging.
And so he's Mr. Super healthy. The only food he eats, like grainy, carby type stuff is rice. I'm like, no, we're testing, like, come on my seat, we're taking this out for now. You're not healing because you keep... Putting the same food into your body every day, that is one of your main offenders.
Julie Michelson: Right. Well, and that's, I used to do that was, you know, we would do the protocol and then if we weren't getting the results we wanted, we would, I would then do the, the sensitivity panel, but for the most part, by the time people are coming to me, you know, specifically for autoimmunity, they, they don't want to, you know, wait and I
Annika Carroll: No, you want the information
Julie Michelson: yeah. And I don't like That elimination phase to be longer than it needs to either, you know, and so, um, the, the toughest are the people that don't feel the flare from the gluten. And [00:35:00] the reason why I say never, ever, ever, you do all this work to heal your gut back up and, and restore that gut barrier.
And we know it's not a theory anymore. We know it's science gluten causes leaky gut. It's not the only cause, but so why would you mess with it? If you put all that work in, it just doesn't make sense.
So, you were talking about neurotransmitters before, I see so many people and all of a sudden anxiety is gone, right? So, um, it's, it's lots of fun and yeah, we are complex humans and, the gut is really important for sleep, inflammation, pain, fatigue, all the things is you have to address the gut health.
Annika Carroll: Absolutely.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. I love it. I love it. So what is one, I know you gave us some tips, but this is your opportunity to either add or highlight.
What is one step that listeners can [00:36:00] take starting today to improve their sleep?
Annika Carroll: Well, we talked about, and I'm going to reiterate and then maybe give one more. The one that you talked about with what you do with all your clients, get sunlight within the first, I always say 30 minutes after waking up and what does sunlight mean, natural light, either open your window all the way so you can see the sky, not through the glass, but you're actually looking outside, sit there with a cup of warm water or something and look at the sky for 10 minutes, Or step on your porch, or if you have a dog, go and walk the dog early, and that sets your cortisol and your melatonin for the day, and it is game changer.
If you do that, that is game changer. And, if you can get a few more touch points throughout the day, where you have, even if it's five minutes, go outside and give your body that, without sunglasses that [00:37:00] moment. That light that comes into your eyes and we don't need to stare at the sun for that because we don't want to hurt our eyes.
But you just need that light exposure outside and that gives the brain more input on what time it is because the sun changes its angle at which it hits your eye and with that the body knows what time it is. That's the only way you know when you if you ever work in an office that has no windows you have no clue what time it is.
And that is basically why, because you don't see how the light changes. Um, so that's a big one. Um, the other one is for people either when you have trouble falling asleep or when you wake up and like your monkey brain kind of goes on, um, do a brain dump at the end of the day.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So, so helpful.
Annika Carroll: And so easy to do so you can do it either like directly at the end of your workday or maybe [00:38:00] after dinner.
I wouldn't do it too close to bedtime necessarily so not like half an hour before bed, but before that is fine and you can just take a piece of paper, and you write down everything that's on your mind and it doesn't have to, it's not a to do list. That's not the intention. You can turn that into a to do list the next day, but the, so you can write down, oh, still have to call mom, have to pick up the kids from soccer tomorrow, need to book the dentist appointment.
If those are things that are on your mind at that moment. Just let it all flow on the paper. But you can also write things like, if that's still in it, person cut me off today, really annoyed me, somebody took my parking spot. that client of mine didn't do like that protocol as much, like makes me a bit sad or frustrated or, um, I need to talk to them about that, or I still need to go to the grocery store, like anything that comes to mind on the paper, because your [00:39:00] brain sees, Oh, it's safe. Somebody's taking care of it. It's actually written down. So I don't need to keep that in here, which a gives you more capacity, but B just helps people to not have this anxiety build up from, Oh, I forgot something.
I need to still do this. I need to still do that. And if that is something that happens at night to you, when you wake up, also have a piece of paper and a pen next to you. Write it down, and then you should be able to turn around and somewhat quickly fall back asleep, rather than ruminating over these things.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So, so helpful. I've seen it be so impactful. It's a great exercise. It really is. It's a good release. Thanks. Especially to break cycles, you know, somebody's in that deep cycle of it's been, you know, or they have put on that identity. I'm just a bad sleeper.
Annika Carroll: No, you're not. You can, you can address that. And yes, the longer we, we've done it, the longer it might take.
Julie Michelson: sure.
Annika Carroll: But you can address that. If you're somebody who has the [00:40:00] motivation to do it, I think that's the most important thing, right?
Julie Michelson: I love it. Anika, for people listening on the go, where's the best place to find you?
Annika Carroll: The best place to find me is... I would say either sleeplikeaboss.com, the website where we have tons of blog posts and tons of information or YouTube. I have a podcast, it's the Sleep Like a Boss podcast, but you can listen to it also on video on YouTube or you do the, those are probably the biggest ones I am on Instagram, but I'm not the most active person on Instagram.
Julie Michelson: I get it. We're busy and with our real life. It's okay. I'm giving you permission.
Annika Carroll: Thank you.
Julie Michelson: I love it. Thank you so, so much. This has been amazing. And I know listeners are going to get just a ton of value out of this. Um, because sleep is essential. We, we all need to, and we can all up level and so [00:41:00] whether you're somebody who is stuck in that cycle or not, there's just amazing gold in this episode.
For everyone listening, remember you can get the transcripts and show notes at inspiredliving.show. Hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week. [00:42:00]
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My Guest For This Episode
My Guest For This Episode
Connect with Annika Carroll
Annika Carroll
Annika is a Sleep & Health Coach for women and the CEO of Sleep Like A Boss.
She is a former Senior HR Manager who has recovered from insomnia and burnout twice in the last five years. She was a Type A-stress addict who rode on adrenaline and cortisol for years, ignoring her body's signals like a pro.
Today, she helps ambitious women regain control of their sleep and avoid burnout.
Annika helps her clients identify and get on top of physical issues that affect their sleep - such as gut health, hormones, and thyroid issues. And she teaches her clients tools for managing stress and changing their mindset around their ability to sleep.
She is a former Senior HR Manager who has recovered from insomnia and burnout twice in the last five years. She was a Type A-stress addict who rode on adrenaline and cortisol for years, ignoring her body's signals like a pro.
Today, she helps ambitious women regain control of their sleep and avoid burnout.
Annika helps her clients identify and get on top of physical issues that affect their sleep - such as gut health, hormones, and thyroid issues. And she teaches her clients tools for managing stress and changing their mindset around their ability to sleep.
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