Episode 96
Sarah Phillipe:
Your Body, Your Choice: Understanding the Health Impact of Breast Implants
Join us in this episode as Sarah Phillipe, a breast implant illness and detox expert, reveals her personal journey and the hidden health challenges of breast implants. Unpack the link between implants and autoimmune diseases, explore why complete capsule removal is crucial during explant surgery, and gain insight on the importance of emotional healing, fascia health, and nervous system regulation. Don't miss this in-depth look into a topic that can change your health perspective!
First Aired on: Jul 17, 2023
Episode 96
Sarah Phillipe:
Your Body, Your Choice: Understanding the Health Impact of Breast Implants
Join us in this episode as Sarah Phillipe, a breast implant illness and detox expert, reveals her personal journey and the hidden health challenges of breast implants. Unpack the link between implants and autoimmune diseases, explore why complete capsule removal is crucial during explant surgery, and gain insight on the importance of emotional healing, fascia health, and nervous system regulation. Don't miss this in-depth look into a topic that can change your health perspective!
First Aired on: Jul 17, 2023
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Sarah's personal journey with breast implants and illness.
Sarah shares how societal expectations and her desire for larger breasts led her to get implants, triggering a range of unexplained symptoms including hair loss, fatigue, weight gain, and brain fog.The challenges Sarah faced post-implant.
From cognitive symptoms impacting her work, relationships, and overall life, Sarah talks about how her journey led her to become a functional medicine practitioner.The link between breast implants and autoimmune diseases.
We discuss how the continuous activation of the immune system by foreign objects like implants can lead to immune dysregulation and a muted immune response.Autoimmune conditions and gut organisms.
We touch on how bugs in our gut can trigger autoimmune conditions and the role of implants in autoimmune activation.Addressing the lack of diagnostic criteria for breast implant illness.
We underline the importance of considering the timeline of symptoms and the role of skilled explant surgeons. Visit breastimplantillness.com for a list of surgeons who specialize in explant procedures.The importance of complete capsule removal during explant surgery.
Sarah shares insights on ensuring your surgeon provides proof of complete capsule removal and discusses how to manage expectations post-surgery.Addressing unrealistic expectations about implants and healing.
We talk about the need for personal responsibility for health and the importance of addressing lifestyle factors for optimal health.The emotional aspect of explantation surgery.
Understanding why you wanted implants in the first place and detaching your identity from your appearance is key to healing.The impact of phatic flow and the fascia on chronic pain and overall health.
We delve into how disruptions in the fascia can lead to pain and mobility issues, and the importance of regulating the nervous system for improved health.The importance of regulating the nervous system.
Getting outside, disconnecting from screens, and nature-focused practices can all aid in healing and health improvement.
Other Resources:
Connect with Sarah Phillipe
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: [Page//00:00:00] Welcome back to the Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today we are joined by Sarah Phillipe, breast implant illness and detox expert. Sarah is a certified functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner and a board certified holistic health practitioner, and she believes the solution to healing goes well beyond explant surgery.
In today's conversation, we explore not [Page//00:01:00] only the connections between breast implant illness and autoimmunity, but taking radical personal responsibility to create healing.
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Phillipe: Thank you so much for having me, Julie. It's such a pleasure. I looking forward to our conversation.
Julie Michelson: I am as well. This is such an important topic and I think it's under, under discussed. And, and as we mentioned before we hit record, it's a very deep subject. So we will start with your journey
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: I guarantee this is not what you thought you would be doing when you were a little girl.
So how did you get into this world?
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. So that's Yes, very true. So I would say, you know, my desire for, you know, a certain aesthetic, you know, large breasts really started in childhood. Just a lot of different messaging around what makes a woman a woman, and You know, it ended up creating a lot of insecurity [Page//00:02:00] body image issues in my teenage years and even young adulthood.
And, you know, I ended up becoming a nurse. So I worked in conventional, you know, medicine in the field of nursing for many, many years, probably 13 years. And I ended up getting really into more of a fitness lifestyle bodybuilding and kind of really getting very lean. And of course when you're that lean, you really don't have much breast tissue.
And I already started with not very much. And, you know, seeing these women on stage, which I never really wanted for myself. I just really wanted that look, seeing these women on stage with, you know, just really, really fit physiques and large breasts. You know, that was kind of, you know, I had this kind of instilled in childhood that, that was important, but it really kind of put the nail on the coffin for me, so to speak.
You know, I, I felt like that was the driving force. To that led to my desire [Page//00:03:00] to get them placed. And so I ended up deciding around 30 years old to get my breast implants placed. That, that I had always dreamed about, that I would one day have. And I would say without, within about six months, I started developing lots and lots of unexplainable symptoms, starting with symptoms that are really common for hypothyroid and Hashimoto's.
So a lot of hair loss, fatigue, weight gain, heart difficulty keeping it off. Just brain fog, you name it. And I ended up seeking some help. I went to my, you know, conventional doctor asked for some lab work that all checked out, quote unquote normal. But we know that story is all too common. And I, you know, was told, Hey, your lab work is fine.
Maybe, you know, think about. Some counseling or, you know, spicing up your sex life because I was dealing with low sex drives as well and I just thought that is just not the kind of answer I'm looking for.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. [Page//00:04:00] Smart girl.
Sarah Phillipe: helpful. So I continued my search and, you know, all the while I continued developing lots of new symptoms, lots of gas and bloating and food intolerances, anxiety, heart palpitations insomnia feeling really cold.
I had to sleep at the hot pack at night cuz I could not keep my body temperature up. Mind racing. Social anxiety, loud sounds, bright lights, chemical smells all just completely threw me over the edge. It, it just irritated my nervous system so much. I started to not be able to tolerate physical workouts anymore because pushing my body the way I had always been pushing, it was just too much stress.
Now, I couldn't tolerate any kind of difficult conversation with another person because that also was too much stress on my body, and my nervous system was just shot. It was so dysregulated and I had. Brain fog, I couldn't [Page//00:05:00] remember anything. And in the nursing field, like you've gotta be on, on your game,
Julie Michelson: Yeah. No offense, but I would not want, wanna have you as my nurse in, in that state.
Sarah Phillipe: I wouldn't either. I remember just reading something on a screen for work you know, continuing education, things like that, and being tested on it later. And I just had to read it, you know, 20 times just to comprehend it. And then after I had finished testing, I would instantly forget, like it was gone.
Hard time remembering people's names and names of things and just things like that. So it was really, really challenging. And I was a really hard person too, so. Be around cause I was miserable.
Julie Michelson: Sure. Absolutely.
Sarah Phillipe: So I just went down this path of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Cuz I wasn't willing to just accept that, you know, this is, has no
Julie Michelson: new you.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. And Naomi, yeah. It really impacted my, everything in life. It impacted my, my work, my job, [Page//00:06:00] my relationship with my husband, relationship with my family and friends. And it just showed up in so many areas of my life. So I wasn't willing to settle for that. So I ended up going down the path of, you know, finding functional medicine and finding functional diagnostic nutrition, became a practitioner thinking, Hey, you know, if I'm going through this, I can't be the only one.
And Intuit intuitively I had the instinct that it might be the implants, but there was just nobody out there talking about it. Back then, there were no websites, no Facebook groups, nothing on social media. And I even remember typing into Google, you know, breast symptoms developing after breast augmentation and really didn't find anything.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Sarah Phillipe: So I couldn't go off of a hunch. Fast forward six years later, you know, I had done lots of the healing work that we now teach, right? With myself for myself, and gotten a little bit better. I'd say about 50% better. But the straw that broke the camel's back for me was I was having a hard time being able to conceive. [Page//00:07:00] So I ended up discovering, I had stage four endometriosis. I did not have any symptoms prior to the implants, but I had horrible symptoms after getting the implants. That was one of my main struggles. And so that led to me finally making the decision to get them out, and by that time I was really, By that time I was really ready too.
You know, here, in my mind, I had done that inner work, really reflecting on why did I get these in the first place? Why did I feel I needed them to be beautiful and worthy as a woman, right? And so doing that deeper work, I was able to comfortably and confidently say, Hey, it's time to get 'em out. And so I did, and it wasn't like this quick fix, you know, I had to continue to do some deeper inner work as well.
Not just the physical terrain, but mentally, emotionally, things like that. And, and that's kind of the short version.
Julie Michelson: And it is, it's. [Page//00:08:00] I, I think one of the reasons I was so excited to, to talk about this is, as I said, I think it is under discussed, even still. And I like connecting the dots for people. That's why I do this. And, and so I'm curious it seems to me, and, and this is your world, the six months seems pretty quick for you to start having symptoms.
Is that common? I.
Sarah Phillipe: You know, it's kind of all over the map for people. People can start having symptoms right after surgery. It could be, you know, six months or a year later. It could be a decade or two later, and that's,
Julie Michelson: on what's going on in your body
Sarah Phillipe: factors. Yeah, I
Julie Michelson: get there. Okay,
Sarah Phillipe: I think it depends on, you know, what other stressors someone has present in their lives, what other things they're exposed to in addition to their genetic weaknesses.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So so let's, let's talk. You gave us a long list of your own
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: personal symptoms and, and I love that you [Page//00:09:00] prefaced it in the beginning. Your initial symptoms really are mimic or overlap or almost the same as hypothyroid, Hashimoto's. And so, you know, for listeners. It, it's sometimes really hard to pull those threads of like, this is this and that is that.
And, and, but we're having this conversation, I, at least in my mind, as a potential driver for autoimmunity, is breast implants and breast implant illness.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, absolutely.
Julie Michelson: And so is it one of those things that's kind of like any of your symptoms? It sounds like another kind of like mold toxicity. Any of your symptoms could be from breast implant illness.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, and it's such a wide range of symptoms that people can experience. It's like pages long. So how is that? It's really difficult to get that kind of differential diagnosis, if you wanna call it that. There's not a real, you know, true diagnosis here [Page//00:10:00] with breast and implant illness. And a lot of these symptoms people can experience overlap with autoimmunity.
And autoimmunity itself can be triggered by the implants and it may resolve when you get the implants out. Autoimmunity itself is not. A root cause, right? It's a downstream effect of something bigger going on. And so, you know, I think it's helpful to talk about how breast implants are stressors on the body in a number of ways so that people can kind of understand that.
And so I usually share three different things. So first of all, they're a physical stressor, right? As a foreign object. It's not your own body doesn't belong to you. The body sees that it's not self and that stimulates and kind of tires out the immune system. Your body will create a capsule around each of those implants as a way to kind of wall them off and protect the body from them because they, your body knows it doesn't belong there.
Right, and your body can kind of overdo it a little bit and end up with, you know, a capsular contracture [Page//00:11:00] contracture really, really thick capsules. And that can lead to that, that's actually been shown to be connected to the onset of breast and implant on is that really, really thick capsule, but ac on top of that capsular contracture.
So that.
Julie Michelson: would, would somebody even know this is what's going on inside?
Sarah Phillipe: They could, I mean, sometimes capsular contracture, it looks really distorted. Like the implants will start to look a little wonky or like really high or really far out, or just really lopsided and hard and painful, right? So that's, and depending on the level of contracture that can determine how much discomfort and how strange they look.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Sarah Phillipe: But you know, we're continuously activating the immune system with these implants in place and eventually that can result in immune dysregulation. And over time that can lead to kind of a muted immune response and the inability to fight off different infections or pathogens. And that can lead to the overgrowth of [Page//00:12:00] opportunistic organisms and reactivation of, you know, dormant organisms.
So we tend to see a lot of. Foreign, you know well, not foreign, excuse me, just different pathogens that are present or infections that are present with people who are dealing with breast and implant illness. And so you might see things like Epstein Barr be reactivated and start replicating out of control.
Lyme disease is another one because a lot of us have already been exposed to these things, but our immune system has been able to keep them in check.
Julie Michelson: Which it should.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, and then you throw something like implants in the picture and it might not be able to do that very well. Right? So we can definitely see lots of different autoimmune triggering organisms present in the gut when we, you know, do a stool analysis as well.
So, you know, so certain bugs are connected to certain autoimmune conditions, and if you've got overgrowth of those, that can put you at risk, of course.
Julie Michelson: Sure.
Sarah Phillipe: and then we often see low secretory I g A on stool analysis, [Page//00:13:00] which is, you know, that main am immunoglobulin responsible for you know, keeping pathogens in check in in the gut specifically.
And you know, they produce their own biotoxins when they overgrow overloads the system. And when we look under the hood, we see the damage, right? We don't always have the, the evidence in the form of studies to support it, but we see what's going on, right? When we look at the, look at the lab work. So there's that, and then they're a chemical stressor as well, right?
So there's so many, it's not just silicone or saline. There's so many different cytotoxic, neurotoxic and carcinogenic chemicals and heavy metals that are really highly inflammatory to the tissues and the cells and the organs. And you know, just to name a few, there's things like methyl ethyl, ketone, cyclone, he ExOne acetone, xylene, phenol, you know, those are all neurotoxins.
And then we have things like toluene [Page//00:14:00] benzene, chloro, methane. Those are all carcinogens. You have things like talcum powder, formaldehyde lacquer, thinner printing, eek. Ink metal cleaning acid, and then heavy metals, things like tin aluminum, lead platinum in addition to the silicone.
Julie Michelson: I'm shaking my head because I'm like, why? Why? It is the same thing though when we talk about food or beauty products or you know,
Sarah Phillipe: yeah
Julie Michelson: and, and I love that you said that this is beyond saline or silicone, right? This isn't saline. Implants are safe and, and silicone are not. That's not even, you know, there's so much more going on here.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes. Yeah. And we, you know, they both have silicone, even though one is called a saline implant. The saline implants also have a silicone shell. Right. And silicone is actually considered to be an adjuvant connected to autoimmune. Well, autoimmunity turning on basically. [Page//00:15:00] And some people really believe that that is the mechanism for breast and implant illness.
Now we have different opinions from different researchers of course, but that's just one thought. So, And so all of these things create this toxic terrain in the body that can also feed downstream, you know, pathogenic organisms in the body. And then we also see a lot of biofilm issues with breast implants and breast implants.
You know, y. They send a lot of the different fluids and you know, the implant shell and capsule and things like that to pathology for testing. And that's where we get to see what organisms are growing, the biofilm that's there. And biofilm can be hugely problematic for immune system dysfunction or dysregulation,
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Sarah Phillipe: right?
So, And so in this setting of immune dysregulation and pathogenic organisms and toxins and all of that certain immune autoimmune triggering organisms, right? Were left really vulnerable to autoimmunity. And you know, you may have genetic [Page//00:16:00] predisposition towards some of these autoimmune conditions that you know, may just be triggered by or turned on by something like breast implants.
Julie Michelson: Sure. Is there, I know there's so much I wanna talk about. I'm, I'm guessing, Your thought is anybody who's listening who has autoimmunity and has implants should take a closer look. Yes. Yeah.
Sarah Phillipe: Absolutely, you should at least consider it as a possible trigger or at least part of the picture. It may not be the only trigger in your story, in your picture, however, it could be a significant part of it. And so one thing I always encourage people to do, cuz we don't have lab testing that says yes or no, you do or don't have breast implant illness, right?
There's no diagnostic criteria for that. However, we gotta look at the timeline, right? So what was going on around the, on time of onset of, of any symptoms? Did you have rest implants? Then did you get them, you know, shortly before that [Page//00:17:00] or did you get implants after that and, and did things get worse after your implants?
Right? So we kind of look at the timeline and connect the dots between when certain symptoms developed and when you had the implants.
Julie Michelson: Okay, and, and so when somebody's at that point, and we're gonna. I wanna touch on this and then maybe go what would be backwards, which is the kind of preparing for explanation and, and expectations and things like that. But if somebody is, you know, maybe this is spin on somebody's mind. You know, maybe like you, there's spin in the back of the mind, like, huh, I wonder if this could be, and maybe hearing this conversation is they're like, okay, you know what?
I need to, I need to get these removed. Are there, in your opinion, you know, are there certain kinds of surgeons they need to go to or certain kinds of things that need to be done in that explanation surgery? Other than just having a plastic surgeon remove the implant?[Page//00:18:00]
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, absolutely a hundred percent. And this is one of the most important things that people need to understand. Don't just rush off and go ask your plastic surgeon who placed them to take 'em out for you. It's probably not gonna go very well. So what you want is, A plastic surgeon who is an expert in the explan procedure itself.
So there's a great website you can check out. It's not my website. It's a really helpful website with a list of surgeons by country and state. It's breast implant illness.com. So that's a great place to start. They give you lots of information there about each surgeon. You want someone who first of all, believes in what you're going through, right?
You want someone who believes in breast and plan illness that they can be problematic, and who's gonna take that process seriously of helping you get them out for the best possible outcome. And so what that looks like is having them removed, ideally on block, which is the implant, and the capsule that's formed around them is [Page//00:19:00] removed, intact together, not cut open.
So once that capsule is cut open, we don't always know if there's a rupture, there can be a rupture or even a leak, and that could be negative on an M R I. Right. So we, even with imaging, it can be a negative a false negative. And so we wanna protect the body. Don't open that up and have all the contents of, of that implant spilling out all over the lymphatic system with it's very dense in the breast area.
And. If they're not able to be removed on block minimally, they need to go back in and make sure all of the tiny, even the tiniest specks of capsule are removed from the body. Now most plastic surgeons are just gonna go in, cut, open the capsule, take out the implants, and leave the capsule in your body and close you up because capsule.
Capsulectomy, which is what that procedure is called, is very complicated sometimes. Sometimes there's a lot of risk involving puncturing the lung and leading to pneumothorax, which we wanna avoid, right? So that [Page//00:20:00] requires a really skilled surgeon to be able to do that for you confidently. And so I highly recommend someone who's had a lot of experience with this and has a lot of, you know, a good proven track record.
And so talking to other women who've used that surgeon, you know, if it's someone you're considering, can be helpful as well. I caution people in the Facebook groups cuz I think they can be very kind of victimy and negative, but I think that can be a decent place to get opinions about surgeons because a
Julie Michelson: Or you could probably ask a surgeon you're considering
Sarah Phillipe: Yes. For some
Julie Michelson: referrals. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. So, you know, making sure you're all on the same page about what's expected. And I think it's helpful and I would, I would want this and I did have this, but you know, getting your implants back, you bought those, they're yours. If you ever need them for any reason in the future, it's good to have them for testing or if there were a lawsuit [Page//00:21:00] involved at any point, you wanna have those in your possession.
Pictures. And video, if possible, of the surgery and the capsules completely removed and showing your pockets are completely clear of capsule. So I think seeing that proof is important, cuz I'll tell you, I cannot count how many times I've had clients say, oh, they said they got it all out and they ended up going back for an exploratory surgery and found one, two, sometimes even three capsules inside that person's body that did not get removed.
And the surgeon lied.
Julie Michelson: Wow. Amazing. And so kind of along that line, if somebody. You know, because this, I think this is a newer conversation. So if somebody who had been ill and connected their own dots and went either back to their surgeon to, or to another surgeon and just had the implants removed would you, is there something you would recommend them to do at this point to make sure [Page//00:22:00] that the capsule was removed completely?
Sarah Phillipe: You know, I'm not an expert on imaging, but I don't know. There may be imaging that could possibly show some of that. I don't know for sure that would be worth talking to, you know, their doctor about. But I think, you know, sometimes it's worth having an exploratory surgery with surgery with a surgeon who is skilled inplant to be sure peace of mind, I mean, You know, this is the rest of your life we're talking about here.
And capsule left behind is, creates the same problems that implants do because it's immune stimulating material, and it still will contain silicone and different toxicants that have bled into that space and become kind of woven into that matrix. And there can still be biofilm and bacteria and things hiding out in that capsule.
So it's gonna continue to stimulate the same problems. So I think that's really important for people to understand. You've got to have that [Page//00:23:00] capsule out.
Julie Michelson: And so I, if you've had, and even again, like you said, if you, even if you were told it, it was out you know, or fully removed and, and you're not improving, and we're gonna talk about some other, the, it could, because I'm guessing, and this isn't just, okay, that was the problem. We removed the problem. Now you're better.
It's not
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm. Right.
Julie Michelson: So so that's, I just wanted to kind of circle back and highlight that for, for listeners that, you know, maybe a, a, a deeper exploration of some sort. I'm not telling people to run out and get surgery, it just keep that on your list of considerations and don't think there's a check mark next to it, just because you had explanation.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes.
Julie Michelson: So, so let's talk about some of I just said and could, because. You let us know. It's not just this physical piece of removing even, you know, completely successfully and
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: What are, [Page//00:24:00] you know, let's talk about kind of expectations and some of this other work that you find essential to do.
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm. So, of course I may be a little biased because I don't really have interaction with all the women who are better after their explant, right? I tend to see the ones who still are very sick and need help. So my impression though is that what you see online on social media is not always the reality.
Okay. And you see a lot of people posting stories about, here look at my eyes before implants or before my X-plan and the day after my implants came out. Now look at them. They're so white and bright and you know, I'm all better. And that sets an unrealistic expectation for people and it sets them up. If they don't get that same outcome to feel really hopeless and lost and discouraged.
And so I want people to know and understand that this isn't a quick fix for every single person. You know, those who feel that way, that you know that this [Page//00:25:00] was a miraculous kind of healing experience for them. Great. They may
Julie Michelson: And they are the minority.
Sarah Phillipe: they're the minority. Great. And they may just have different genetics different, you know, maybe not the same stressors in addition to the breast implants that you do.
It just depends on so many factors for people. And so for people who, you know, go, are going into or considering explan, just go into it with hoping for the best, but having realistic expectations that even if it's not miraculous for you, it doesn't mean there isn't hope right there, there's still hope that you still can heal.
There's just more work that needs to be done.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Well, and I, I, I remember when I first started in my journey of functional medicine and, and I, I was like the root cause, right? Plural,
Sarah Phillipe: Right.
Julie Michelson: going to find, and even for myself personally, it started that way. I want to find my root cause my one, and, and, and [Page//00:26:00] that I think is really the crux of this whole conversation is the, the.
With breast implant illness or breast PA plants in general. Even if I, I'm not a big fan of labels cuz
Sarah Phillipe: I don't like labels
Julie Michelson: they don't really solve a problem. But, but they're just a piece. They're, they may be the thing that pushed you past the tipping point, but they're not the only thing or they wouldn't be the problem, a problem at all, you know?
So I, I just want people to understand that, that. You know, that's where it gets tricky because back to, you know, if, you know and trust that, that they were removed properly, that leaves all these other areas. You know, you mentioned, you know, infections and, and I, toxins and all kinds of other things that are.
Probably already going on in some degree. And like you said, if you're genetically like this amazing detoxer, [Page//00:27:00] maybe taking that big load out, your body can do the rest. Like it should. You probably need some support. The chances are pretty good by the time you're listening to us for sure. Or at a place where you're considering taking the implants out to begin with.
You need to support your body, your whole body, not just. Breast tissue
Sarah Phillipe: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, we need to be thinking about chronic illness in a different way. It's multifactorial in today's world, and so it's going to require a multi therapeutic approach, right? Not just tunnel vision on one thing and expecting one action to resolve everything.
Julie Michelson: right.
Sarah Phillipe: We need to really, and my, my philosophy is we really need to be taking radical personal responsibility for our health. We can't be blaming everyone else around us, right? We can't expect doctors to fix us. Only you can heal you, right? And so that ta that [Page//00:28:00] takes that like owning that radical responsibility.
Julie Michelson: Which is also, and I, I know you don't mean it in a blaming way, but it, that's it's power. It, it's us. You know it's responsibility, but it's also opportunity and we don't need to wait for somebody else to fix us. That's not how it works. That's really not what medicine is.
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: I, I love that you said that.
I wanna touch on, because I know I can't keep you all day, but I wanna make sure we do talk a little bit about. You know, and as far as I think some of other, those other factors, listeners can go to probably any other episode and we talk about all of the lifestyle factors and all, all of the, the areas of addressing, you know, are gonna be the same.
I want to touch on the emotional piece of, you mentioned even with your own journey, you know, really. Before [Page//00:29:00] surgery, you did that work to figure out, you know, why, why did I even get them? Why did I want them, why have I always wanted them? Or, you know, like, why is that even important and part of my identity?
What do you feel there's a process of a certain amount of emotional work that should be done before explanation or does it matter?
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. I think it's really helpful to go into it feeling. Emotionally just solid. You know, like this is the right decision. I'm not fearful, I'm not afraid of what I'm gonna look like, right? Because yes, you're gonna look different and we can't always fix that, you know, what's been done. Or doctors, surgeons can't always, it's never gonna be exactly the same as before you got your implants placed.
So we really need to be addressing I think the. Mental and emotional aspect of why we got the implants in the first place. And so for me, it just took like [Page//00:30:00] digging deep. Okay. Like, you know, I'd have conversations with my husband while we took our dogs for a walk about this, you know, like where, when was it that I felt like I really needed breasts, like big breasts to be?
Sexy and a real woman. And so, you know, I kind of thought about my childhood and I had pinpointed a certain moment in time that really stood out to me. It was a memory. I don't have a lot of memories of this age, but it was like, oh my gosh, that it started there. And yes, of course society and everything we're exposed to you know, in all the different advertisements and messaging.
Yes, that contributes as well. But my own tribe, My own tribe growing up is where it started, and so understanding that helped me process it and start to gain a different respect for my body and a different appreciation for it, and really detach my s who I am from what I look like. Right. And so [Page//00:31:00] that's what I think people need to kind of go through, and it might be their own unique path.
It's not gonna be exactly the same as mine, but I think it's important to be feeling emotionally stable when you go in for explan surgery. So,
Julie Michelson: I love that. I, I I think it's, yeah, I mean, because there are, we we're so multifaceted. There could be a part of you that's like, get these things out of me. If they're making me sick, I can't be sick anymore. But if you haven't detached from that whole process of getting them and having them, and You know, I, I, I could see where there you'd get stuck and, and we, we know, we've talked about it all the time, the emotional component to wellness and illness and especially, and autoimmunity.
And so that makes, that makes really good sense. I, I wanna highlight as well There are ways to augment or, you know, a lot of, I, I don't know, I shouldn't say a lot. I know of explant specialists that do fat [Page//00:32:00] transfers and, and so they're not just, you know, like, Leaving, there are options of trying to be as, as comfortable and happy with the, the breasts that you will then have for the rest of your life.
And, and so I think that that's important for p for people to know, you know, that there, there's, there is this whole wonderful new world opening up that, that can give us some safer options as well.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. Yeah, and I wanna just touch on that briefly. I'll just say I had fat transfer myself. I had, I known better, I would've cho ma not made that choice. I think it really can, and just depending on the technique, you know, because different surgeons have different technique and if they're doing liposuction to gather fat to then put in the breast tissue, that can cause other issues.
It can make it look like you might have a cyst on, on imaging and it's just, you know, calcified fatty tissue. It can, the liposuction itself can really, really [Page//00:33:00] disrupt lymphatic flow and the fascia, and that can cause a whole slew of additional problems with being able to detox properly and so many other things.
But lots of chronic pain issues can come out of that as well, because with the fascia, it connects everything to everything in the body. Right. So we're really disrupting that. And I'll tell you just from my own personal experience just alone without considering the, the fat graft he had to, my surgeon had to scrape the ribs to get my capsules off and.
You know, just totally scraping up the fascia as well. And I have a lot of really tight, tight tissue in there that's painful. And I have had to do a lot of body work to loosen that up and get that to become freed up again so that I have all the mobility that I should have. But it can impact everything else.
It can lead to neck pain or back pain, or, you know, and you just don't always connect the dots.
Julie Michelson: Right. Right. [Page//00:34:00] I love that you said that because that's, that's. Again, you know, post-op e even even without a fat transfer. That probably sounds like that would've been your, your also, for me hearing that is like really, but you're not stuck with that pain cuz you have the knowledge. And that's why we have the conversation of, you know, to, you don't, nobody should settle.
For where they are. And so if you fix one problem and you end up with another problem, you know, then you do the work to release the fascia and, and get yourself because, and you're educated enough to know, you know, the, the down, like you said, the downstream. If I didn't, if I'm not addressing that, then I'm gonna end up with pain in other places.
And the whole point is to not be in chronic pain
Sarah Phillipe: Right?
Julie Michelson: It's the whole point.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes.
Julie Michelson: I know. So I'm so glad that you shared that and I, I just so [Page//00:35:00] appreciate you sh showing up so fully and, and sharing, you know, the, the what I would imagine were vulnerable parts of your story and, and details because I know it's just so valuable for listeners.
I, it really is. I, I think, again, this conversation is so important to have because I, this is, I think, I mean, autoimmunity numbers are ridiculous anyway, but I just believe there is such a large part of the population that has breast implants and has illness, call it whatever you want. And they, they really need to, to hear these conversations.
So I.
Sarah Phillipe: absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Julie Michelson: My pleasure. So before I let you go, I want, I would love for you to give listeners one thing they can do today, and this could be absolutely, they may have, you can surprise me. But one thing people can do today to start to improve [Page//00:36:00] their health. One step. So,
Sarah Phillipe: You know, I think. And this has come out of like years and years of figuring out like what people need including myself. Right. And I used to say things like, you know, restorative sleep and you know, drinking enough water and getting the bowels moving. And that's all very important. Yes. But I think the most important thing where people can start now is working on the nervous system.
Working on regulating their nervous system. And that takes consistent effort. It doesn't happen overnight. So even something, you know, you, you could be something as simple as, you know, breath work tapping e f t it could be e as as involved as something like somatic experiencing. You know, working on rewiring the brain, right, and to, to teach the brain that it's safe.
That it's safe to heal, it's safe to let go. It's safe to fill in the blank. And when we're stuck in this chronic fight, flight, freeze, or, [Page//00:37:00] or I can't think of the other word at the moment. Fight, flight, freeze or whatever. We'll move on. Cause I can't think, can't think of what it is. But anyway, you get my point.
My point is, when we're stuck in that state, our nervous systems are overwhelmed, right? And we can't actually heal in that state. So we need to work on regulating the nervous system. And the simplest, easiest thing people can do that I personally love is get outside, get in the sunshine. Take yourself away from all of your screens and, and, you know, entertainments and infotainment and fargas.
Right. Listen to the sounds of nature. Listen to the bird's, chirp far, you know, set your eyes on a horizon because it's that pupilary dilation. It's you hearing the, the nature, the sounds of nature that actually tell your nervous system it's safe.
Julie Michelson: Right. Love that. Ah, gold. I knew you were gonna just pull out some kind of magic. It's amazing. And for people who are [Page//00:38:00] listening on the go and aren't gonna check the show notes I used to be one of those people. Where's the best place to find you?
Sarah Phillipe: So my website is reversing breast implant illness.com. Kind of a long one. I'm on YouTube as well and, and Instagram, YouTube is an interesting place to check out and it's just my name, Sarah Philipe. If you were to search the Life Beyond Explan movement, you'll find it. And it's just a lot of women sharing their stories, and so I'm really wanting to use that platform as a place to highlight these stories.
Julie Michelson: That's, that's incredible. Incredible. What, what an amazing resource. Sarah, thank you so much. You really have given listeners a lot to think about today.
Sarah Phillipe: Great. I'm glad.
Julie Michelson: For everyone listening, remember, you can get the transcripts and show notes by Visiting Inspired Living Show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next [Page//00:39:00] week.
In today's conversation, we explore not [Page//00:01:00] only the connections between breast implant illness and autoimmunity, but taking radical personal responsibility to create healing.
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Phillipe: Thank you so much for having me, Julie. It's such a pleasure. I looking forward to our conversation.
Julie Michelson: I am as well. This is such an important topic and I think it's under, under discussed. And, and as we mentioned before we hit record, it's a very deep subject. So we will start with your journey
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: I guarantee this is not what you thought you would be doing when you were a little girl.
So how did you get into this world?
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. So that's Yes, very true. So I would say, you know, my desire for, you know, a certain aesthetic, you know, large breasts really started in childhood. Just a lot of different messaging around what makes a woman a woman, and You know, it ended up creating a lot of insecurity [Page//00:02:00] body image issues in my teenage years and even young adulthood.
And, you know, I ended up becoming a nurse. So I worked in conventional, you know, medicine in the field of nursing for many, many years, probably 13 years. And I ended up getting really into more of a fitness lifestyle bodybuilding and kind of really getting very lean. And of course when you're that lean, you really don't have much breast tissue.
And I already started with not very much. And, you know, seeing these women on stage, which I never really wanted for myself. I just really wanted that look, seeing these women on stage with, you know, just really, really fit physiques and large breasts. You know, that was kind of, you know, I had this kind of instilled in childhood that, that was important, but it really kind of put the nail on the coffin for me, so to speak.
You know, I, I felt like that was the driving force. To that led to my desire [Page//00:03:00] to get them placed. And so I ended up deciding around 30 years old to get my breast implants placed. That, that I had always dreamed about, that I would one day have. And I would say without, within about six months, I started developing lots and lots of unexplainable symptoms, starting with symptoms that are really common for hypothyroid and Hashimoto's.
So a lot of hair loss, fatigue, weight gain, heart difficulty keeping it off. Just brain fog, you name it. And I ended up seeking some help. I went to my, you know, conventional doctor asked for some lab work that all checked out, quote unquote normal. But we know that story is all too common. And I, you know, was told, Hey, your lab work is fine.
Maybe, you know, think about. Some counseling or, you know, spicing up your sex life because I was dealing with low sex drives as well and I just thought that is just not the kind of answer I'm looking for.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. [Page//00:04:00] Smart girl.
Sarah Phillipe: helpful. So I continued my search and, you know, all the while I continued developing lots of new symptoms, lots of gas and bloating and food intolerances, anxiety, heart palpitations insomnia feeling really cold.
I had to sleep at the hot pack at night cuz I could not keep my body temperature up. Mind racing. Social anxiety, loud sounds, bright lights, chemical smells all just completely threw me over the edge. It, it just irritated my nervous system so much. I started to not be able to tolerate physical workouts anymore because pushing my body the way I had always been pushing, it was just too much stress.
Now, I couldn't tolerate any kind of difficult conversation with another person because that also was too much stress on my body, and my nervous system was just shot. It was so dysregulated and I had. Brain fog, I couldn't [Page//00:05:00] remember anything. And in the nursing field, like you've gotta be on, on your game,
Julie Michelson: Yeah. No offense, but I would not want, wanna have you as my nurse in, in that state.
Sarah Phillipe: I wouldn't either. I remember just reading something on a screen for work you know, continuing education, things like that, and being tested on it later. And I just had to read it, you know, 20 times just to comprehend it. And then after I had finished testing, I would instantly forget, like it was gone.
Hard time remembering people's names and names of things and just things like that. So it was really, really challenging. And I was a really hard person too, so. Be around cause I was miserable.
Julie Michelson: Sure. Absolutely.
Sarah Phillipe: So I just went down this path of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Cuz I wasn't willing to just accept that, you know, this is, has no
Julie Michelson: new you.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. And Naomi, yeah. It really impacted my, everything in life. It impacted my, my work, my job, [Page//00:06:00] my relationship with my husband, relationship with my family and friends. And it just showed up in so many areas of my life. So I wasn't willing to settle for that. So I ended up going down the path of, you know, finding functional medicine and finding functional diagnostic nutrition, became a practitioner thinking, Hey, you know, if I'm going through this, I can't be the only one.
And Intuit intuitively I had the instinct that it might be the implants, but there was just nobody out there talking about it. Back then, there were no websites, no Facebook groups, nothing on social media. And I even remember typing into Google, you know, breast symptoms developing after breast augmentation and really didn't find anything.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Sarah Phillipe: So I couldn't go off of a hunch. Fast forward six years later, you know, I had done lots of the healing work that we now teach, right? With myself for myself, and gotten a little bit better. I'd say about 50% better. But the straw that broke the camel's back for me was I was having a hard time being able to conceive. [Page//00:07:00] So I ended up discovering, I had stage four endometriosis. I did not have any symptoms prior to the implants, but I had horrible symptoms after getting the implants. That was one of my main struggles. And so that led to me finally making the decision to get them out, and by that time I was really, By that time I was really ready too.
You know, here, in my mind, I had done that inner work, really reflecting on why did I get these in the first place? Why did I feel I needed them to be beautiful and worthy as a woman, right? And so doing that deeper work, I was able to comfortably and confidently say, Hey, it's time to get 'em out. And so I did, and it wasn't like this quick fix, you know, I had to continue to do some deeper inner work as well.
Not just the physical terrain, but mentally, emotionally, things like that. And, and that's kind of the short version.
Julie Michelson: And it is, it's. [Page//00:08:00] I, I think one of the reasons I was so excited to, to talk about this is, as I said, I think it is under discussed, even still. And I like connecting the dots for people. That's why I do this. And, and so I'm curious it seems to me, and, and this is your world, the six months seems pretty quick for you to start having symptoms.
Is that common? I.
Sarah Phillipe: You know, it's kind of all over the map for people. People can start having symptoms right after surgery. It could be, you know, six months or a year later. It could be a decade or two later, and that's,
Julie Michelson: on what's going on in your body
Sarah Phillipe: factors. Yeah, I
Julie Michelson: get there. Okay,
Sarah Phillipe: I think it depends on, you know, what other stressors someone has present in their lives, what other things they're exposed to in addition to their genetic weaknesses.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. So so let's, let's talk. You gave us a long list of your own
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: personal symptoms and, and I love that you [Page//00:09:00] prefaced it in the beginning. Your initial symptoms really are mimic or overlap or almost the same as hypothyroid, Hashimoto's. And so, you know, for listeners. It, it's sometimes really hard to pull those threads of like, this is this and that is that.
And, and, but we're having this conversation, I, at least in my mind, as a potential driver for autoimmunity, is breast implants and breast implant illness.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, absolutely.
Julie Michelson: And so is it one of those things that's kind of like any of your symptoms? It sounds like another kind of like mold toxicity. Any of your symptoms could be from breast implant illness.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, and it's such a wide range of symptoms that people can experience. It's like pages long. So how is that? It's really difficult to get that kind of differential diagnosis, if you wanna call it that. There's not a real, you know, true diagnosis here [Page//00:10:00] with breast and implant illness. And a lot of these symptoms people can experience overlap with autoimmunity.
And autoimmunity itself can be triggered by the implants and it may resolve when you get the implants out. Autoimmunity itself is not. A root cause, right? It's a downstream effect of something bigger going on. And so, you know, I think it's helpful to talk about how breast implants are stressors on the body in a number of ways so that people can kind of understand that.
And so I usually share three different things. So first of all, they're a physical stressor, right? As a foreign object. It's not your own body doesn't belong to you. The body sees that it's not self and that stimulates and kind of tires out the immune system. Your body will create a capsule around each of those implants as a way to kind of wall them off and protect the body from them because they, your body knows it doesn't belong there.
Right, and your body can kind of overdo it a little bit and end up with, you know, a capsular contracture [Page//00:11:00] contracture really, really thick capsules. And that can lead to that, that's actually been shown to be connected to the onset of breast and implant on is that really, really thick capsule, but ac on top of that capsular contracture.
So that.
Julie Michelson: would, would somebody even know this is what's going on inside?
Sarah Phillipe: They could, I mean, sometimes capsular contracture, it looks really distorted. Like the implants will start to look a little wonky or like really high or really far out, or just really lopsided and hard and painful, right? So that's, and depending on the level of contracture that can determine how much discomfort and how strange they look.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Sarah Phillipe: But you know, we're continuously activating the immune system with these implants in place and eventually that can result in immune dysregulation. And over time that can lead to kind of a muted immune response and the inability to fight off different infections or pathogens. And that can lead to the overgrowth of [Page//00:12:00] opportunistic organisms and reactivation of, you know, dormant organisms.
So we tend to see a lot of. Foreign, you know well, not foreign, excuse me, just different pathogens that are present or infections that are present with people who are dealing with breast and implant illness. And so you might see things like Epstein Barr be reactivated and start replicating out of control.
Lyme disease is another one because a lot of us have already been exposed to these things, but our immune system has been able to keep them in check.
Julie Michelson: Which it should.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, and then you throw something like implants in the picture and it might not be able to do that very well. Right? So we can definitely see lots of different autoimmune triggering organisms present in the gut when we, you know, do a stool analysis as well.
So, you know, so certain bugs are connected to certain autoimmune conditions, and if you've got overgrowth of those, that can put you at risk, of course.
Julie Michelson: Sure.
Sarah Phillipe: and then we often see low secretory I g A on stool analysis, [Page//00:13:00] which is, you know, that main am immunoglobulin responsible for you know, keeping pathogens in check in in the gut specifically.
And you know, they produce their own biotoxins when they overgrow overloads the system. And when we look under the hood, we see the damage, right? We don't always have the, the evidence in the form of studies to support it, but we see what's going on, right? When we look at the, look at the lab work. So there's that, and then they're a chemical stressor as well, right?
So there's so many, it's not just silicone or saline. There's so many different cytotoxic, neurotoxic and carcinogenic chemicals and heavy metals that are really highly inflammatory to the tissues and the cells and the organs. And you know, just to name a few, there's things like methyl ethyl, ketone, cyclone, he ExOne acetone, xylene, phenol, you know, those are all neurotoxins.
And then we have things like toluene [Page//00:14:00] benzene, chloro, methane. Those are all carcinogens. You have things like talcum powder, formaldehyde lacquer, thinner printing, eek. Ink metal cleaning acid, and then heavy metals, things like tin aluminum, lead platinum in addition to the silicone.
Julie Michelson: I'm shaking my head because I'm like, why? Why? It is the same thing though when we talk about food or beauty products or you know,
Sarah Phillipe: yeah
Julie Michelson: and, and I love that you said that this is beyond saline or silicone, right? This isn't saline. Implants are safe and, and silicone are not. That's not even, you know, there's so much more going on here.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes. Yeah. And we, you know, they both have silicone, even though one is called a saline implant. The saline implants also have a silicone shell. Right. And silicone is actually considered to be an adjuvant connected to autoimmune. Well, autoimmunity turning on basically. [Page//00:15:00] And some people really believe that that is the mechanism for breast and implant illness.
Now we have different opinions from different researchers of course, but that's just one thought. So, And so all of these things create this toxic terrain in the body that can also feed downstream, you know, pathogenic organisms in the body. And then we also see a lot of biofilm issues with breast implants and breast implants.
You know, y. They send a lot of the different fluids and you know, the implant shell and capsule and things like that to pathology for testing. And that's where we get to see what organisms are growing, the biofilm that's there. And biofilm can be hugely problematic for immune system dysfunction or dysregulation,
Julie Michelson: Yeah,
Sarah Phillipe: right?
So, And so in this setting of immune dysregulation and pathogenic organisms and toxins and all of that certain immune autoimmune triggering organisms, right? Were left really vulnerable to autoimmunity. And you know, you may have genetic [Page//00:16:00] predisposition towards some of these autoimmune conditions that you know, may just be triggered by or turned on by something like breast implants.
Julie Michelson: Sure. Is there, I know there's so much I wanna talk about. I'm, I'm guessing, Your thought is anybody who's listening who has autoimmunity and has implants should take a closer look. Yes. Yeah.
Sarah Phillipe: Absolutely, you should at least consider it as a possible trigger or at least part of the picture. It may not be the only trigger in your story, in your picture, however, it could be a significant part of it. And so one thing I always encourage people to do, cuz we don't have lab testing that says yes or no, you do or don't have breast implant illness, right?
There's no diagnostic criteria for that. However, we gotta look at the timeline, right? So what was going on around the, on time of onset of, of any symptoms? Did you have rest implants? Then did you get them, you know, shortly before that [Page//00:17:00] or did you get implants after that and, and did things get worse after your implants?
Right? So we kind of look at the timeline and connect the dots between when certain symptoms developed and when you had the implants.
Julie Michelson: Okay, and, and so when somebody's at that point, and we're gonna. I wanna touch on this and then maybe go what would be backwards, which is the kind of preparing for explanation and, and expectations and things like that. But if somebody is, you know, maybe this is spin on somebody's mind. You know, maybe like you, there's spin in the back of the mind, like, huh, I wonder if this could be, and maybe hearing this conversation is they're like, okay, you know what?
I need to, I need to get these removed. Are there, in your opinion, you know, are there certain kinds of surgeons they need to go to or certain kinds of things that need to be done in that explanation surgery? Other than just having a plastic surgeon remove the implant?[Page//00:18:00]
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, absolutely a hundred percent. And this is one of the most important things that people need to understand. Don't just rush off and go ask your plastic surgeon who placed them to take 'em out for you. It's probably not gonna go very well. So what you want is, A plastic surgeon who is an expert in the explan procedure itself.
So there's a great website you can check out. It's not my website. It's a really helpful website with a list of surgeons by country and state. It's breast implant illness.com. So that's a great place to start. They give you lots of information there about each surgeon. You want someone who first of all, believes in what you're going through, right?
You want someone who believes in breast and plan illness that they can be problematic, and who's gonna take that process seriously of helping you get them out for the best possible outcome. And so what that looks like is having them removed, ideally on block, which is the implant, and the capsule that's formed around them is [Page//00:19:00] removed, intact together, not cut open.
So once that capsule is cut open, we don't always know if there's a rupture, there can be a rupture or even a leak, and that could be negative on an M R I. Right. So we, even with imaging, it can be a negative a false negative. And so we wanna protect the body. Don't open that up and have all the contents of, of that implant spilling out all over the lymphatic system with it's very dense in the breast area.
And. If they're not able to be removed on block minimally, they need to go back in and make sure all of the tiny, even the tiniest specks of capsule are removed from the body. Now most plastic surgeons are just gonna go in, cut, open the capsule, take out the implants, and leave the capsule in your body and close you up because capsule.
Capsulectomy, which is what that procedure is called, is very complicated sometimes. Sometimes there's a lot of risk involving puncturing the lung and leading to pneumothorax, which we wanna avoid, right? So that [Page//00:20:00] requires a really skilled surgeon to be able to do that for you confidently. And so I highly recommend someone who's had a lot of experience with this and has a lot of, you know, a good proven track record.
And so talking to other women who've used that surgeon, you know, if it's someone you're considering, can be helpful as well. I caution people in the Facebook groups cuz I think they can be very kind of victimy and negative, but I think that can be a decent place to get opinions about surgeons because a
Julie Michelson: Or you could probably ask a surgeon you're considering
Sarah Phillipe: Yes. For some
Julie Michelson: referrals. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. So, you know, making sure you're all on the same page about what's expected. And I think it's helpful and I would, I would want this and I did have this, but you know, getting your implants back, you bought those, they're yours. If you ever need them for any reason in the future, it's good to have them for testing or if there were a lawsuit [Page//00:21:00] involved at any point, you wanna have those in your possession.
Pictures. And video, if possible, of the surgery and the capsules completely removed and showing your pockets are completely clear of capsule. So I think seeing that proof is important, cuz I'll tell you, I cannot count how many times I've had clients say, oh, they said they got it all out and they ended up going back for an exploratory surgery and found one, two, sometimes even three capsules inside that person's body that did not get removed.
And the surgeon lied.
Julie Michelson: Wow. Amazing. And so kind of along that line, if somebody. You know, because this, I think this is a newer conversation. So if somebody who had been ill and connected their own dots and went either back to their surgeon to, or to another surgeon and just had the implants removed would you, is there something you would recommend them to do at this point to make sure [Page//00:22:00] that the capsule was removed completely?
Sarah Phillipe: You know, I'm not an expert on imaging, but I don't know. There may be imaging that could possibly show some of that. I don't know for sure that would be worth talking to, you know, their doctor about. But I think, you know, sometimes it's worth having an exploratory surgery with surgery with a surgeon who is skilled inplant to be sure peace of mind, I mean, You know, this is the rest of your life we're talking about here.
And capsule left behind is, creates the same problems that implants do because it's immune stimulating material, and it still will contain silicone and different toxicants that have bled into that space and become kind of woven into that matrix. And there can still be biofilm and bacteria and things hiding out in that capsule.
So it's gonna continue to stimulate the same problems. So I think that's really important for people to understand. You've got to have that [Page//00:23:00] capsule out.
Julie Michelson: And so I, if you've had, and even again, like you said, if you, even if you were told it, it was out you know, or fully removed and, and you're not improving, and we're gonna talk about some other, the, it could, because I'm guessing, and this isn't just, okay, that was the problem. We removed the problem. Now you're better.
It's not
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm. Right.
Julie Michelson: So so that's, I just wanted to kind of circle back and highlight that for, for listeners that, you know, maybe a, a, a deeper exploration of some sort. I'm not telling people to run out and get surgery, it just keep that on your list of considerations and don't think there's a check mark next to it, just because you had explanation.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes.
Julie Michelson: So, so let's talk about some of I just said and could, because. You let us know. It's not just this physical piece of removing even, you know, completely successfully and
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: What are, [Page//00:24:00] you know, let's talk about kind of expectations and some of this other work that you find essential to do.
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm. So, of course I may be a little biased because I don't really have interaction with all the women who are better after their explant, right? I tend to see the ones who still are very sick and need help. So my impression though is that what you see online on social media is not always the reality.
Okay. And you see a lot of people posting stories about, here look at my eyes before implants or before my X-plan and the day after my implants came out. Now look at them. They're so white and bright and you know, I'm all better. And that sets an unrealistic expectation for people and it sets them up. If they don't get that same outcome to feel really hopeless and lost and discouraged.
And so I want people to know and understand that this isn't a quick fix for every single person. You know, those who feel that way, that you know that this [Page//00:25:00] was a miraculous kind of healing experience for them. Great. They may
Julie Michelson: And they are the minority.
Sarah Phillipe: they're the minority. Great. And they may just have different genetics different, you know, maybe not the same stressors in addition to the breast implants that you do.
It just depends on so many factors for people. And so for people who, you know, go, are going into or considering explan, just go into it with hoping for the best, but having realistic expectations that even if it's not miraculous for you, it doesn't mean there isn't hope right there, there's still hope that you still can heal.
There's just more work that needs to be done.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Well, and I, I, I remember when I first started in my journey of functional medicine and, and I, I was like the root cause, right? Plural,
Sarah Phillipe: Right.
Julie Michelson: going to find, and even for myself personally, it started that way. I want to find my root cause my one, and, and, and [Page//00:26:00] that I think is really the crux of this whole conversation is the, the.
With breast implant illness or breast PA plants in general. Even if I, I'm not a big fan of labels cuz
Sarah Phillipe: I don't like labels
Julie Michelson: they don't really solve a problem. But, but they're just a piece. They're, they may be the thing that pushed you past the tipping point, but they're not the only thing or they wouldn't be the problem, a problem at all, you know?
So I, I just want people to understand that, that. You know, that's where it gets tricky because back to, you know, if, you know and trust that, that they were removed properly, that leaves all these other areas. You know, you mentioned, you know, infections and, and I, toxins and all kinds of other things that are.
Probably already going on in some degree. And like you said, if you're genetically like this amazing detoxer, [Page//00:27:00] maybe taking that big load out, your body can do the rest. Like it should. You probably need some support. The chances are pretty good by the time you're listening to us for sure. Or at a place where you're considering taking the implants out to begin with.
You need to support your body, your whole body, not just. Breast tissue
Sarah Phillipe: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, we need to be thinking about chronic illness in a different way. It's multifactorial in today's world, and so it's going to require a multi therapeutic approach, right? Not just tunnel vision on one thing and expecting one action to resolve everything.
Julie Michelson: right.
Sarah Phillipe: We need to really, and my, my philosophy is we really need to be taking radical personal responsibility for our health. We can't be blaming everyone else around us, right? We can't expect doctors to fix us. Only you can heal you, right? And so that ta that [Page//00:28:00] takes that like owning that radical responsibility.
Julie Michelson: Which is also, and I, I know you don't mean it in a blaming way, but it, that's it's power. It, it's us. You know it's responsibility, but it's also opportunity and we don't need to wait for somebody else to fix us. That's not how it works. That's really not what medicine is.
Sarah Phillipe: Mm-hmm.
Julie Michelson: I, I love that you said that.
I wanna touch on, because I know I can't keep you all day, but I wanna make sure we do talk a little bit about. You know, and as far as I think some of other, those other factors, listeners can go to probably any other episode and we talk about all of the lifestyle factors and all, all of the, the areas of addressing, you know, are gonna be the same.
I want to touch on the emotional piece of, you mentioned even with your own journey, you know, really. Before [Page//00:29:00] surgery, you did that work to figure out, you know, why, why did I even get them? Why did I want them, why have I always wanted them? Or, you know, like, why is that even important and part of my identity?
What do you feel there's a process of a certain amount of emotional work that should be done before explanation or does it matter?
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. I think it's really helpful to go into it feeling. Emotionally just solid. You know, like this is the right decision. I'm not fearful, I'm not afraid of what I'm gonna look like, right? Because yes, you're gonna look different and we can't always fix that, you know, what's been done. Or doctors, surgeons can't always, it's never gonna be exactly the same as before you got your implants placed.
So we really need to be addressing I think the. Mental and emotional aspect of why we got the implants in the first place. And so for me, it just took like [Page//00:30:00] digging deep. Okay. Like, you know, I'd have conversations with my husband while we took our dogs for a walk about this, you know, like where, when was it that I felt like I really needed breasts, like big breasts to be?
Sexy and a real woman. And so, you know, I kind of thought about my childhood and I had pinpointed a certain moment in time that really stood out to me. It was a memory. I don't have a lot of memories of this age, but it was like, oh my gosh, that it started there. And yes, of course society and everything we're exposed to you know, in all the different advertisements and messaging.
Yes, that contributes as well. But my own tribe, My own tribe growing up is where it started, and so understanding that helped me process it and start to gain a different respect for my body and a different appreciation for it, and really detach my s who I am from what I look like. Right. And so [Page//00:31:00] that's what I think people need to kind of go through, and it might be their own unique path.
It's not gonna be exactly the same as mine, but I think it's important to be feeling emotionally stable when you go in for explan surgery. So,
Julie Michelson: I love that. I, I I think it's, yeah, I mean, because there are, we we're so multifaceted. There could be a part of you that's like, get these things out of me. If they're making me sick, I can't be sick anymore. But if you haven't detached from that whole process of getting them and having them, and You know, I, I, I could see where there you'd get stuck and, and we, we know, we've talked about it all the time, the emotional component to wellness and illness and especially, and autoimmunity.
And so that makes, that makes really good sense. I, I wanna highlight as well There are ways to augment or, you know, a lot of, I, I don't know, I shouldn't say a lot. I know of explant specialists that do fat [Page//00:32:00] transfers and, and so they're not just, you know, like, Leaving, there are options of trying to be as, as comfortable and happy with the, the breasts that you will then have for the rest of your life.
And, and so I think that that's important for p for people to know, you know, that there, there's, there is this whole wonderful new world opening up that, that can give us some safer options as well.
Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. Yeah, and I wanna just touch on that briefly. I'll just say I had fat transfer myself. I had, I known better, I would've cho ma not made that choice. I think it really can, and just depending on the technique, you know, because different surgeons have different technique and if they're doing liposuction to gather fat to then put in the breast tissue, that can cause other issues.
It can make it look like you might have a cyst on, on imaging and it's just, you know, calcified fatty tissue. It can, the liposuction itself can really, really [Page//00:33:00] disrupt lymphatic flow and the fascia, and that can cause a whole slew of additional problems with being able to detox properly and so many other things.
But lots of chronic pain issues can come out of that as well, because with the fascia, it connects everything to everything in the body. Right. So we're really disrupting that. And I'll tell you just from my own personal experience just alone without considering the, the fat graft he had to, my surgeon had to scrape the ribs to get my capsules off and.
You know, just totally scraping up the fascia as well. And I have a lot of really tight, tight tissue in there that's painful. And I have had to do a lot of body work to loosen that up and get that to become freed up again so that I have all the mobility that I should have. But it can impact everything else.
It can lead to neck pain or back pain, or, you know, and you just don't always connect the dots.
Julie Michelson: Right. Right. [Page//00:34:00] I love that you said that because that's, that's. Again, you know, post-op e even even without a fat transfer. That probably sounds like that would've been your, your also, for me hearing that is like really, but you're not stuck with that pain cuz you have the knowledge. And that's why we have the conversation of, you know, to, you don't, nobody should settle.
For where they are. And so if you fix one problem and you end up with another problem, you know, then you do the work to release the fascia and, and get yourself because, and you're educated enough to know, you know, the, the down, like you said, the downstream. If I didn't, if I'm not addressing that, then I'm gonna end up with pain in other places.
And the whole point is to not be in chronic pain
Sarah Phillipe: Right?
Julie Michelson: It's the whole point.
Sarah Phillipe: Yes.
Julie Michelson: I know. So I'm so glad that you shared that and I, I just so [Page//00:35:00] appreciate you sh showing up so fully and, and sharing, you know, the, the what I would imagine were vulnerable parts of your story and, and details because I know it's just so valuable for listeners.
I, it really is. I, I think, again, this conversation is so important to have because I, this is, I think, I mean, autoimmunity numbers are ridiculous anyway, but I just believe there is such a large part of the population that has breast implants and has illness, call it whatever you want. And they, they really need to, to hear these conversations.
So I.
Sarah Phillipe: absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Julie Michelson: My pleasure. So before I let you go, I want, I would love for you to give listeners one thing they can do today, and this could be absolutely, they may have, you can surprise me. But one thing people can do today to start to improve [Page//00:36:00] their health. One step. So,
Sarah Phillipe: You know, I think. And this has come out of like years and years of figuring out like what people need including myself. Right. And I used to say things like, you know, restorative sleep and you know, drinking enough water and getting the bowels moving. And that's all very important. Yes. But I think the most important thing where people can start now is working on the nervous system.
Working on regulating their nervous system. And that takes consistent effort. It doesn't happen overnight. So even something, you know, you, you could be something as simple as, you know, breath work tapping e f t it could be e as as involved as something like somatic experiencing. You know, working on rewiring the brain, right, and to, to teach the brain that it's safe.
That it's safe to heal, it's safe to let go. It's safe to fill in the blank. And when we're stuck in this chronic fight, flight, freeze, or, [Page//00:37:00] or I can't think of the other word at the moment. Fight, flight, freeze or whatever. We'll move on. Cause I can't think, can't think of what it is. But anyway, you get my point.
My point is, when we're stuck in that state, our nervous systems are overwhelmed, right? And we can't actually heal in that state. So we need to work on regulating the nervous system. And the simplest, easiest thing people can do that I personally love is get outside, get in the sunshine. Take yourself away from all of your screens and, and, you know, entertainments and infotainment and fargas.
Right. Listen to the sounds of nature. Listen to the bird's, chirp far, you know, set your eyes on a horizon because it's that pupilary dilation. It's you hearing the, the nature, the sounds of nature that actually tell your nervous system it's safe.
Julie Michelson: Right. Love that. Ah, gold. I knew you were gonna just pull out some kind of magic. It's amazing. And for people who are [Page//00:38:00] listening on the go and aren't gonna check the show notes I used to be one of those people. Where's the best place to find you?
Sarah Phillipe: So my website is reversing breast implant illness.com. Kind of a long one. I'm on YouTube as well and, and Instagram, YouTube is an interesting place to check out and it's just my name, Sarah Philipe. If you were to search the Life Beyond Explan movement, you'll find it. And it's just a lot of women sharing their stories, and so I'm really wanting to use that platform as a place to highlight these stories.
Julie Michelson: That's, that's incredible. Incredible. What, what an amazing resource. Sarah, thank you so much. You really have given listeners a lot to think about today.
Sarah Phillipe: Great. I'm glad.
Julie Michelson: For everyone listening, remember, you can get the transcripts and show notes by Visiting Inspired Living Show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next [Page//00:39:00] week.
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My Guest For This Episode
Connect with Sarah Phillipe
Sarah Phillipe
Breast Implant Illness
Sarah has a passion for restoring health that has taken her along a path from RN, to becoming a certified Functional Diagnostic Nutrition® Practitioner, Board Certified Holistic Health Practitioner, and Breast Implant Illness and Detox Expert. She believes the solution to Reversing Breast Implant illness is about more than just the explant and that we all need to take personal responsibility for restoring our health by addressing all of the root causes that contribute to chronic illness. It is Sarah’s belief that the body has an innate desire to heal if given what it needs, and she focuses on teaching women how to unlock that innate intelligence and heal themselves.
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