Julie Michelson: [00:00:00] Welcome back to The Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today we are joined by Divya Dhawan, Sjogren's Thriver and National Board Certified Functional and Holistic Health Coach. Today we're talking about the body's ability to heal from Sjogren's as it can any autoimmune condition.

Our conversation explores the connection between stress and autoimmunity, and Divya shares her [00:01:00] approach to helping clients reverse their symptoms.

Divya, welcome to the podcast.

Divya Dhawan: Thank you so much, Julie. So, so nice to be here and talk about autoimmunity.

Julie Michelson: As you know, you and I have the same mission. We need to keep these conversations going so that people know that they have options.

Divya Dhawan: Mm-hmm. That's correct. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: How did you get to be a Sjogren's health coach? And, and an autoimmune expert? Tell me a little bit about your journey of what brought you to this.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think most of us who come to this point where we start talking about, and, you know, becoming autoimmune experts is really from our own experience. So my work also kind of stems from my own experience. So the story goes like this about Almost about nine years ago, I was diagnosed with this autoimmune disorder, which is called Sjogren's Syndrome.

Not many people still know about it and can't pronounce it of course. So it is characterized with dry eyes, [00:02:00] dry mouth joint pains, fatigue, and of course there's a lot of intertwining of other autoimmune disorders with it. So I've, I've rarely seen people with, you know, just one autoimmune disorder because if one, if, if you have one autoimmune disorder, the probability of you getting some other autoimmune disorder sort of, you know, increases by 80%.

That's just how it is. So these are the typical symptom of Sjogren's syndrome I was diagnosed with with these. Symptoms. Yeah. About nine years ago, for me, the, the main challenges were at that time was very bad, joint pains and stiffness in the body. So e even the muscles were stiff at that point, and I was completely debilitated.

I could not move could not sit down, could not stand up. If I've, you know, closed my fist, I can't open it up. And if I've, I have my fist open. I can't close it. I mean, I'm, I'm just saying this so that I can give. Some idea of what the stiffness was like for me, so I was completely debilitated. And I was going from doctors to doctors of [00:03:00] course, because I was not able to find a doctor who could give me a diagnosis.

I, I had all kinds of scary diagnosis in the beginning of course, which was not true. Like, you know, you might have some kind of cancer. This could be izing, spondylitis, this could be, you know, something else. And I was scared to death by many doctors, unfortunately. Who did not know how to diagnose me.

But then I did find finally a rheumatologist who was able to diagnose me and using blood test and Sjogren's antibodies. And I was found positive for it. And I, and that was kind of a. Moment when I was like, oh, finally we found out what it is. But then when I asked my doctor, okay, now what, so now what's the treatment plan?

Cause I was all, I was all excited and I was like, okay, now I've got a path to healing and now, you know, I can finally get back to normal from here on. But the answer that I got was, was something more depressing than the disorder itself, which was like, you can only manage your symptoms and you know, [00:04:00] we can, you can, we can help you manage your symptoms through your life.

But this is how your unfortunately life is going to be like. And I was like, I was looking at the doctor for like a few seconds and I was like, heck no. I don't want this life. You know? And then, so that is where I really started doing my own research and finding out what really is going on with me, first of all, and then what I need to do in order to get better without, you know, the drugs, of course.

So I was initially put on, you know, the medications, the initial medications, which is the steroids and the Plaquenil and all that. But with the, with, with the research that I did, with the lifestyle changes that I made, with all the different things that I did within a year I was off medication and I had no symptoms.

So I was still, you know, seropositive. So, but I had absolutely no symptom and the doctor said, you know what? You don't even need to come to me. You're fine now. So, so that's where my story starts and that's where I started seeing a theme sort of rep repeating itself all [00:05:00] the time. So I, I was meeting friends, I was meeting strangers who were like, I, we have autoimmune disease, but we have been told that we cannot heal ourselves.

And that kind of just sort of triggered this thing in me that if I could, you know, Come to this stage where I don't have any problem in my body right now, then I can help people, you know, because people need to know that there's a way and that there is there is this light at the end of the path.

Even, even if they're told there's no cure, we can still, we are still able to heal our bodies.

Julie Michelson: Yes. Amen.

Divya Dhawan: yeah. So yeah, that's my story.

Julie Michelson: Amazing. Amazing. And you had a history of, of autoimmunity in your family as well,

Divya Dhawan: Yes, that is true. Yes. So my mom, mom has chronic rheumatoid arthritis, but she's also a huge inspiration for me because she ha she was at that point in her life when I was like in my ninth grade. So I was pretty young where her, because of the rheumatoid arthritis, her fingers started deforming. And all these [00:06:00] patients with rheumatoid arthritis, when they start getting these deformations in their fingers or their joints, that, that, this cannot be reversed.

But guess what? My mom used AIC medication to finally get better. Yes. Look at you. Right? So, so that's what happened to my mom. She. She's a chronic rheumatoid arthritis, arthritis patient. She, some, sometimes even today, gets some pains, but she's able to manage it so well with the help of IH medication and lifestyle changes and all those stuff that, you know, her, her deformed finger came back to normal.

So that was a huge miracle in front of me as a nine, as as a ninth grader.

Julie Michelson: So you knew

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. Yeah. So that is what happened when I got Sjogren's and when I, when the doctor said there's no cure, that is when this light bulb you know, emerged in, into my, in, in my brain and was like, no, wait. If my mom could have done this, I can then do this too.

So, and then my grandmother she of course did not have any autoimmune, like the autoimmune. We know she had heart you know, heart health issues, which are also sort of [00:07:00] autoimmune. If we really look into it now. But she was my healing goddess because she had a healing remedy for everything and everything.

It always, always worked and it was always natural. So, yeah. So this is sort of my background.

Julie Michelson: That's amazing. Amazing.

Divya Dhawan: Thank you.

Julie Michelson: I, we wanna talk today about one of my favorite topics, and I know we both agree that it's, it's, even though I, I think it's pretty known that it, it really does. Help drive autoimmunity. Even a lot of functional medicine doctors and a lot of people just don't really address it.

Or they'll say the word and tell the, tell the patient or the client you know, lower your stress. So I wanna talk about this connection between stress and autoimmunity.

Divya Dhawan: Hundred percent. Yes. Stress is such a huge driver of so many disorders in the body, including autoimmunity. And the reason being [00:08:00] because when the stress is high, of course the, this hormone called cortisol, which is produced by our adrenals, is, is, is really high in our body and we are always in the fight and flight mode.

Which is the sympathetic nervous system more in which any other function in the body is not a priority for it. So definitely then what happens? The first thing that happens is the digestion that goes for a toss. And when that happens, we have imbalanced microbiomes and then a lot of endotoxins entering the body.

And then all of this sort of drives us to get into autoimmunity because these endotoxins the, the main one, or of which is the, is the lipopolysaccharide. That really is a toxin that the body cannot handle with. And then it starts attacking the body itself in an attempt to remove this endotoxin. And there are many other molecules that you know Mimic a foreign body and that the body starts attacking.

So stress really drives all of that Stress also can cause symptoms of you know, histamine intolerance [00:09:00] because a lot of cortisol means a lot of histamine in the body. And so there's a lot of interrelationship between stress and the physiological functions that happen which are of course imbalanced.

So definitely stress is something that we need to address and find ways to really manage the stress better because, We are always gonna have stress in the kind of life we are living until we start going to, you know, if, if you, someone decides I'm gonna go live in a in, in the Himalayas and, and, you know, disconnect with the world and all that, and that's the only time when we won't have stress.

But considering that we all want to live this life, As we have it we are gonna have stress. And so managing the stress is so, so important because stress indirectly is a driver of autoimmunity. A hundred percent. And there, and, and there's so many studies that show that also nowadays. So i's not something just that is assumed, that is, it's like scientifically proven now.

Julie Michelson: Right, right. Absolutely. So back to my comment that then [00:10:00] people, okay. You know, once we accept, okay, we all have stress, and stress is connected definitely to health and absolutely to autoimmunity. So, What do people do? What do you do? You know, because that's where I see even the doctors that are saying, oh, you know, you know, you need to manage your stress.

And then people don't know how. Right or where, where do they start? So if somebody's listening and they're like, okay, I know that's me and whether I, I. Felt, I hear this all the time too. I'm not stressed.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: and then they tell me about their life and I'm like, well, now I'm stressed. So I love that you pointed out, you know, you don't have to feel stressed out, right?

If we're on this planet, we have chronic stress.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: so, but, but what do you do, you know, how do you support people in reducing their stress? Or what is a step people can take? Or where do they

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So that is one thing I was gonna say. Most people don't even feel that they're under

Julie Michelson: Yeah,

Divya Dhawan: Right? So, so that

Julie Michelson: normal [00:11:00] state,

Divya Dhawan: Right. That's a normal state. That's how they're functioning and they think they're functioning fine, and so they feel that there's no stress at all. So if there's no stress, then how do we manage it?

Right? So the first step is really to recognize that you have stress. So, so small things like, you know, for example, if, if there's if this is not normal for you, that you go and grab. A lot of carbs when you are not really hungry, but in between meals you go and grab a lot of carbs, you have a habit of getting, you know, maybe muffins, maybe a lot of coffee.

All these things are signs of stress in the body, and our body has a way of communicating this so that we kind of reach out for these things that the body will. Get some relief, temporary relief from the stress with, so, so like sugar or caffeine. All these things give us like that temporary relief from the stress.

Of course they're not good in the long run, so if you are, if, if you're doing those things, you are stressed, your body is stressed. So, you know, recognizing that, that is so [00:12:00] important.

Julie Michelson: Okay, so step one, recognizing, noticing,

yeah. The right away when I, I, I hear all the time you know, pe I think people think that managing stress means that they're supposed to try to eliminate. 

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. 

Julie Michelson: in their life. And I, I do have people doing inventory. Often we keep stressors that we don't have to, you know, just because we're not thinking about it.

But there are plenty of stressors day to day that we can't eliminate. So, so what do you, I, when you work with your clients and what do you have people do?

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, so stress can be of so many forms for the body. For example, when you are reaching out for sugar and caffeine, there is some nutritional deficiencies in in your body that your body's trying to fill in for. So in that case, of course, Be conscious of the fact that you're reaching out for such foods which are not serving you, and then reach out for foods which are actually going to give you some nutrition, which means that get go for some nuts, [00:13:00] which have some good fat and minerals in it along with some cheese so that, you know, your glycemic index doesn't go up.

So kind of this, and that's just a small example, but really eating more nutrition dense food instead of reaching out for sugar and cough, caffeine. So. And other things which are not good for the body. And so first of all, you know giving the nutrition to the body. So that's addressing the nutritional stress that is happening in our bodies as far as the mental stress is concerned.

The, the, one of the most effective ways that I've found to relieve stress is, you know, time in every one and a half, two hours, just time, you know, to put it in your Apple watch or whatever, watch you use that you know, an alarm to sit down and just be with yourself and breathe deep breathing for like, you know, just like 10 counts, 15 counts to begin with.

That itself, you know, gives the body the sign that you know, everything is fine. So, And I don't have to be worried because, you know, the breath is a very important thing that [00:14:00] it, and it's very, very overlooked. So if you look at, if, if you really pay attention to it right now, your listeners, I will tell them to look, pay attention to their breath.

How are they breathing? Most often than not, most of us are breathing very shallow. So we're never taking deep breaths. Right. And that shallow breathing is really a signal to the mind from the body that there is some sort of stress or some, some sort of threat for us around us. But when we. Sort of just be with ourselves and calm down our mind and not think about anything for, for a few you know, count of like 10 or 15.

I'm not asking for like a, you know, one hour or something. That's, and that's not doable if you haven't done it ever. So just be with yourself and breathe and do some deep breathing and do some belly breathing. So how the belly breathing works is you sit up straight Put one hand, put your right hand, right palm on your tummy, and the other hand, the left hand on your chest.

And so when you [00:15:00] breathe in, make sure that your stomach, your tummy is coming out. So that is when you really fill up your lungs and then when you breathe out, your tummy or your stomach should go in.

So you are actually stimulating the diaphragm to expand fully and then contract fully. And then the lungs will have filled up much more than we do it normally.

And that's a sign for the body. This, these breaths that we take are a sign for the body and the mind that everything is fine around us. There's nothing to worry. And It can instantly bring you into the parasympathetic nervous system mode, which will really help mitigate the stress to some extent.

Julie Michelson: Thank you so much for walking us through that as well and, and I am a, a big fan of breath. Work and it, it is true that we can signal our body, you know, through environment. We can signal through breath, you know? So [00:16:00] even if your head is busy, when you start taking those deep breaths, you can at least touch into the parasympathetic state.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a really easy way. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: yeah, so many people have, you know, just lived only in the sympathetic state. Stay in and day out that it becomes, you know, it's like I say, like working a muscle, you know, you just need to practice. So that, that is amazing.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm so glad and I'm, I hope that this helps the listeners too.

Julie Michelson: Yeah. And this is one thing they can do, even if they're listening while they drive,

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, a hundred percent. And yeah, and you don't need to really sit in a quiet place. You can absolutely do it when you're driving and if you're on a Zoom meeting, of course, if no one is seeing you,

Julie Michelson: Yeah. Well, I mean, we're breathing. Nobody can tell, you know, so that's, that's perfect. Great. One of, it's one of my favorite tools.

Divya Dhawan: A hundred percent. Yeah. It is so important and al almost [00:17:00] always overlooked. In fact, if someone wants to go deeper into you know, first for those people who wanna go deeper into breath breathing and something, it, this is something that really chimes with them, then they can. Find out more p prams, which are there on the YouTube, which are different techniques of breathing and that also bring the two lobes of brain and balance.

So there are many on internet. You can really just explore and find out. I'm not going to go deeper into that, right

Julie Michelson: Well, and it is true. We're so, we, you know, we have access to so many resources now. 

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. We absolutely live in a great times. Of course. 

Julie Michelson: I'm just curious. I often think of, you mentioned, you know, often when there's one autoimmune diagnosis, if there's not more than one, there soon will be if, if you don't make changes.

And so I, I so often will see Sjogren's as a secondary or even tertiary diagnosis. But that, that's your. That's your initial [00:18:00] diagnosis, and, and I, I know that this is your specialty, as you mentioned. It's still, I think, kind of an, an under discussed autoimmune condition.

 So how, how do people work with you and what does that, what does that look like? What's the, I, I guess also like what's the benefit? Like why, what's the difference between working with you or just picking up a book?

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, I mean, picking up a book is fine because you know, it's, it's good too, but then of course you'll implement that. Those steps in, in probably like a year or maybe like two years or three years, depends on how effective you are in kind of implementing all those things. And then with, when you work with me, when clients work with me, what they find is that within like four weeks, they start seeing the difference in their health.

The, they do not have dry eyes or they do not have dry eyes that they used to have. When they come to me, the joint pains, they also get a lot of relief from that. They, in fact there's a spiritual com component to the health coaching that I also do. And when I say spiritual, it means spiritual, not religious, just to be [00:19:00] clear.

Which means that we. Also work on finding the deeper connection between the universe between God, between that higher power in ourselves and that connection is missing these days. And that is also the cause of a lot of disorders and diseases happening inside of us. So we really work on the mindset.

When we, when I work with my clients, I work on the mindset, we work on the nutrition because that is also a huge stress factor for the body, right? So we work on the nutrition with them, we work on the stress management with them. We also give them tools like natural supplements and natural relief from how to get natural relief from dryness of eyes and mouth and nose and of course joint pains as well, and fatigue also.

So all of that together within four four weeks is a huge Huge, huge thing to be able to achieve and to get, start getting relief from the Sjogren's and the dryness and the joint pains and all of those symptoms and, and start feeling that you have some control over, over your body and your and your disorder as well.

Which, which I otherwise, all, [00:20:00] all of the clients that come to me are like, I've been told there's no cure. So how, how do you claim you can do it? But the fact is we can do it.

Julie Michelson: I love that. It's, it's so true. I say my, my, my approach. To healing. When I first started, my, my healing journey was like throwing spaghetti at the wall. It, I would listen to a podcast, try something, read a book, try, you know, and it obviously over time it, it worked, but it took years, which is why

I, I think having coaches to, to pull it all together is,

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really to fast track. Yeah. I'm sorry. But yeah, that's really to fast track your healing journey because you will get there, but then how fast you wanna get there is, is what you really wanna think about.

And that's that's where the coaches come in, of course.

Julie Michelson: I love that. And, and so currently, are you working one-on-one? You have programs? What? What is

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, I'm currently working one-on-one because that is the way I can really give complete attention to my clients. [00:21:00] And and that's where also everything becomes personalized and customized for them so that, you know, because everyone, every person with Sjogrens is different. And so one, if I make one program for everyone, that is not gonna work.

So it's, it's customized, it's personalized, and it's one-on-one. Of course.

Julie Michelson: Not that I love. Love it. And, and I know we touched on in the beginning and you just. Just mentioned the dry eyes. Again, for people listening that, you know, either don't have a diagnosis or, or may, you know, and they're wondering, wow, I wonder, you know, if, if Sjogren's fits my box as well. Is it, does it, is there an order to the symptoms?

Is it, you know, or is it that kind of, if they're experiencing the dry eye, dry mouth, along with other, what I think of as autoimmune symptoms, kind of pain, fatigue, that that's when they should wonder.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah, so I, I, on a daily basis, I talk to so many women who reach out to me and they're like, I have [00:22:00] the dry eyes, I have the dry mouth. It's been like 10 years now, but I don't have the diagnosis. So I, what I really want, want your listeners to think about is what do they really care about? Do, do they care about the diagnosis or do, do they, do they care about their own health and healing?

Because if there are both symptoms, It definitely means something is going on in the body and it is brewing inside of you. So you might get the diagnosis like 10 years from now because that is how just the nature of diagnosis is. You might get it like one year from now, but then if you keep waiting it, and it is a systemic disorder, autoimmune, most of the autoimmune disorders are systemic, so Sjogren's definitely is.

So do you want that to happen in your body or do you want the body to start healing, start going towards, to the, to the direction that you want it to, rather than it going to the other direction and then getting into the, you know, the whole healing process and then doing your research and doing that, doing all that, because, you know, it's painful.

It's painful to have an autoimmune disorder. It's painful to have Sjogren's [00:23:00] and it's not fun. And so my advice is even if you do not have a diagnosis and if you have the symptoms, there is something brewing inside you. So start taking action now.

Julie Michelson: I love that and, and I completely agree. You know, when, by the time you reach dry eye, it, it's a sign of systemic inflammation. Forget the diagnosis. Like, let's, that's, you know, let's get to the root, root causes of what's driving that inflammation and turn it around.

Divya Dhawan: A hundred percent. And then this inflammation also takes a lot of years to actually set in. So when you're actually seeing those dry eyes show up, that means that there's always some there. There's already something setting inside your f your body that you need to take care of. So don't wait. Start taking action.

Julie Michelson: I love that. Don't wait.

Yeah. Why not Avoid, yeah. Let, let's just avoid the turn it around now, which is, is brilliant. I wish that I had had those examples. That you had and, and said, you know, no way when I was [00:24:00] diagnosed. But it just goes to show it really doesn't matter whether you don't have a diagnosis.

You're newly diagnosed, you are 11 years into decline like I was. It's, it's never too late. And it's, it's also never too early.

Divya Dhawan: A hundred percent. That's true. So for me, my, my inspiration was my mom. So I knew that I could do that, but there are many other people who can do it even after 10 years of being, you know, into an autoimmune disorder. It might be slow, but then the body is designed to self-heal, so it'll still, still do the healing.

So the healing will happen. You know, you just have to start and you have to have that mindset that, yes, my body can heal because that is when the healing will start inside of us. And, you know quickly I'll just talk about the placebo effect, which is so undermined in the entire medical community and all, and the entire scientific community as well.

But my question is, To, you know, to everyone. If our mind has the capability of healing the body just by thinking that this something that we are taking can heal us, then why not just [00:25:00] use the capability of the mind instead of the drugs and the medication?

Julie Michelson: Yeah, a mindset is so important to healing. It really is. It's

Divya Dhawan: percent. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Julie Michelson: So you've already given us lots of, you know, really effective tidbits, but listeners know, I always ask at the end, for one step listeners can take starting today to improve their health.

Divya Dhawan: Yeah. The one step is I'll, I'll give you two steps actually. So one is get into any mindfulness practice that you like. It can be. You know, like a Qigong or like a yoga or what is that other thing? I keep forgetting the name. Tai Chi. Sorry. Yes. Any, any mindfulness practice is going to put your body in a parasympathetic nervous system mode.

And that is why, you know, the importance of mindfulness is so important. So that is one tip. And then don't do it just like a day or two or like a week and say nothing is happening. [00:26:00] Have the patience and give, give your body the grace to, you know, experience it for about a month and then see what happens.

Because changes will start happening. I personally know many people who have just turned around their, their, you know, health just by doing yoga. You know, so not guaranteeing that this will happen for everyone, but then there's, it's worth a try. And if not, if even if your disease doesn't go away, it'll still help your body.

So don't give up on it. Do it. All right. So that's the first step. And the second tip is start eating organic food. I know it's expensive, but wherever you can. And and if you can go to the local Farmer's market and get the seasonal and local food, the food, that's even better because you don't want the glyphosate.

And that's a huge topic, which I can again talk on for another hour, but I won't. But, but the gly, glyphosate is a chemical which completely disrupts the gut health. It works as a toxin that the body cannot digest, and then it starts attacking the, you know, itself because thinking that, [00:27:00] That is a part of the, that is a foreign body, and it just, in, in attempt to remove it, it starts attacking itself.

So the, so no, just, just changing your food can bring huge, huge, huge difference in the health as well.

Julie Michelson: Awesome. I know most, most people. Will have a tough time with just one. So two works. Two, two works. 

So, 

Divya Dhawan: just wanted to, yeah, I just, what I wanted to say was just this, Faucet, you know, just remove that as much as possible from your diet. And to do that, you have to go to organic food, unfortunately. That's just how it is.

Julie Michelson: Absolutely. For sure. And in this country, 

especially in the us.

Divya Dhawan: That's true. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: So before we wrap up, for people that listen on the go, where is the best place for them to find you?

Divya Dhawan: So I am on Instagram. My handle is devis underscore Sjogren's coach. That's a longer handle. I'm also on Facebook and LinkedIn. [00:28:00] You can just type DHA and you'll find me. And other than that, if, if your listener interested in getting a free, complimentary a complimentary health consultation call with me, then that they can also do that.

Using the links in the bio in in Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. Or they can go to my website, which is www sjogren's solution.com, so it's Sjogren's with an S, and then solutions sjogren's solution.com. Yeah, and I'll be happy to help them.

Julie Michelson: Wonderful Divya, thank you so much. You have given us amazing gold today.

Divya Dhawan: Thank you so much. I, it was such a pleasure talking to you and, you know, raising that awareness that our body has the capability to heal, you know?

Julie Michelson: It absolutely does.

For everyone listening, remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspiredliving.show. Hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week. [00:29:00]