Julie Michelson: [Page//00:00:00] Welcome back to The Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today we're joined by Stephanie Center, the host of the Revolutionary Health Podcast. Functional diagnostic, nutrition practitioner and occupational therapist. 

In today's conversation, we are talking about the connection between gut health and autoimmunity and how mold toxicity can contribute to a variety of [Page//00:01:00] symptoms and show up in many different ways.

Stephanie, welcome to the podcast.

Stephanie Center: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Julie Michelson: I am excited for our conversation and I couldn't wait to hit record because I knew some good things were gonna come up. And I know listeners wanna hear too. So let's jump in. I know you have like so many of us, your own healing story that, that brought you into the functional medicine world. Um, share your journey with us.

Stephanie Center: Yeah, so I've heard you say this before on your podcast and it's totally true. Like nobody wakes up going, oh, I think I'm gonna be an expert in all immune conditions. It's like, no, you get here because life was really hard for you at some point in time.

Julie Michelson: Yes,

Stephanie Center: And, um, I, I do have a medical background. I worked as an occupational therapist and mostly in hospitals, but I've been kind of everywhere over the span of, uh, a decade.

Wow. [Page//00:02:00] That makes me feel old.

Julie Michelson: Oh, please, girl.

Stephanie Center: Oh yeah. So, uh, what, what happened? Where, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? I was working in traditional medicine. I was, I was seeing patients. I even worked in the hospital through Covid a little bit, and that was interesting. Um, but what happened? I got sick and the system didn't help me. And I remember I'm, I'm a very, um, I have a lot of gumption, I guess as a polite way to say that I would sit down with the c e o of the hospital that I worked at and, and I would sit down with him and have lunch with him regularly and say, look, Look, Lou, like this system is broken.

Let me tell you why you lost my business as a patient, because I don't think I'm a snowflake. I don't think I'm special. Um, I am having all of these symptoms. I, I remember, uh, very distinctly being 29 years old and looking down and being on all these medications when just a year prior I had been on no medications as 28 year olds [Page//00:03:00] should be, and thinking like, my problem isn't solved.

So what was my problem? I was exposed to black mold. I had, I was in, and this is the scary part, I was living in a brand new apartment. I was the very first tenant in Nashville, Tennessee, and there was black mold. And mold is kind of interesting in that it kicks you where you're down. So I already had probably some digestive issues that I didn't know about cuz when you're in your twenties you're like, whatever, I'll sleep it off.

And I just woke up one morning and was like, my world has changed and I had all these symptoms and my husband, who was also living in this mold place had very different symptoms. So mold is not, um, it's not like, oh, here are the signs and symptoms of mold. It's like, no, no, no. It can be a, it can be a bunch of different

Julie Michelson: Like literally anything really?

Stephanie Center: anything. And so here I am. Uh, I don't know. I have mold and I'm going from doctor to doc. Sp you know, and every doctor is siloed, which is its own problem cuz these doctors aren't talking to each other [Page//00:04:00] and I'm like, oh, oh my word. I'm on all these meds and I don't feel better. Like something's gotta give.

And I was on a lot of committees at my hospital. I was the cheerleader, I was, you know, trying to, um, make a change and make a difference in the hospital setting. And I just had this aha moment of like, Steph, this is bigger than you. This is bigger than you. And um, that's kind of when I went off on my own and started to learn about functional lab testing.

And I was just like, I, I remember, I also remember distinctly thinking, okay, thyroid's involved. There's something wrong with my thyroid. I went to my primary care physician on three different occasions asking, begging for a thyroid panel,

Julie Michelson: Yep,

Stephanie Center: be given ts h We've all, if you're listening, you are like raising your hand.

I've been there. I know that

Julie Michelson: too.

Stephanie Center: Yes. And so I finally said, do you have to be a doctor to order these things because like you are just not getting what I'm asking you for. And I even at one point wrote on the lab, this is what I want to get measured. And I remember there was an older lady in the waiting room going, can I see your [Page//00:05:00] paper? Before I left the lab, um, which is just, anyways, so that's how I got into this business. Um, I never dreamed of being an entrepreneur. I never, uh, had, you know, you just, you, you're in a position where you have a problem and nobody's solving it for you, and you have to solve it yourself. That's how I got here,

Julie Michelson: And then you get motivated to help other people do the same.

Stephanie Center: 100%. And that's why we're all so passionate about what we do, right? Because we know that pain.

Julie Michelson: absolutely. Absolutely. Um,

Stephanie Center: Sorry for my long-winded answer.

Julie Michelson: no, no, no. There's so many. I have something in my eye for anybody watching the video. I'm not crying. Um, there,

Stephanie Center: was just so moving.

Julie Michelson: yes. Well, and I ca I actually could feel it cuz I've been there. Um, and same thing, I, I showed up at my doctor after years and years of t s h testing.

Stephanie Center: Mm.

Julie Michelson: said, I want this. And I, you know, I had written down everything that's on a full [Page//00:06:00] functional panel and she said, I'm so happy to do it, but I won't know what to do with the results. Like, that's the next level

Stephanie Center: Oh,

Julie Michelson: too. Right? Because I, I am one of many who, I don't convert my T4 to t3. And so,

Stephanie Center: Synthroid's not gonna solve your

Julie Michelson: no, I had already been on it for three years with no results, you know?

Stephanie Center: man.

Julie Michelson: so anyway, it, it's, it's sadly common and this is why we do what we do and have these conversations so that everybody listening that was raising their hand, there are other places you can go for help,

Stephanie Center: 100%. And people who know what they're talking about. Yeah. That's the other piece is you have to understand what the lab means and you know how to, how do you know? I, I very much felt, and I don't know if you had this experience, but when I did have labs that were off, it was like, well, this is just how your life is gonna be now.

Right? Like, this is just, we don't have a solution [Page//00:07:00] for you. We can just tell you you're not normal. It's like, well, that's not very helpful or empowering either.

Julie Michelson: Well, no, it's all disempowering. And I, I was thinking, you know, when you said, you know, I did, nobody knew what was wrong with me and I was on all these medications. It wasn't a me a prescription deficiency like we were, know, that's the, like, we need to get that in our head. Nobody is defic deficient in pharmaceuticals.

Stephanie Center: Who love

Julie Michelson: I'm not non-pharmaceutical. There is definitely a time and a place and, and sometimes we need both as a bridge. How, I'm curious, like how did you figure out about the mold? Because I literally was just having this conversation this morning about somebody who has issues going on and mold is a piece.

Um, but how did you, like you said you was a brand new building and I'm so glad you shared that. Because we tend to think like, oh, you know, mold is only if you can see black mold on the [Page//00:08:00] walls, or if it smells musty, it's an old beach house, something like that. And people really need to understand that new construction can have mold as well.

So how did you connect the dots between here's what was going on with my gut, um, or was it just because you did full testing?

Stephanie Center: Um, I'll preface this by saying it was not an overnight revelation. It took me,

Julie Michelson: Yeah.

Stephanie Center: I suffered for about a good year and a half with no answers, feeling really hopeless, feeling really out of sorts. Um, I finally found, I found a functional medicine doctor. She's an, she's an md, um, who's known for thinking outside the box, and she just looked at me and she goes, what if it's mold?

And I'll be real honest, I laughed. I was like, there's no, like,

Julie Michelson: I live in a brand new,

Stephanie Center: I don't have respiratory symptoms that, you know, you would associate with mold, but I said, you know what, [Page//00:09:00] that's one window we haven't opened in this house, so let's open it. Um, and sure enough, I, I was positive for multiple types of mold, but stacky bots, the black mold, the, the king of all mold.

Julie Michelson: The one. Yep.

Stephanie Center: Oh one was through the roof and um, I'm really glad you mentioned like not being against medicine. I'm not at all against medicine. I did, um, antifungal medication and that was very effective for me.

Julie Michelson: Which is great, and I love that you share that part of your story. Everybody thinks it, it's like I, I, I take thyroid hormone and, and I don't look at that as a failure.

Stephanie Center: right.

Julie Michelson: like I would fight somebody in an alley if they tried to take my thyroid hormone away because I feel so good when my thyroid is optimal.

Um, and I know, you know, there is a camp of like, well you should be able to fix every, I don't care. My whole thing is about feeling well enough to live well. Right. Enjoy life, not have that, which I [Page//00:10:00] know I can hear from your story. You know, life gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And when we're sick,

Stephanie Center: Mm-hmm.

Julie Michelson: And so I, I have people come to me all the time, I heard your story.

I wanna do what you did. I wanna get off meds. And I'm like, let's just figure out what's keeping you from feeling well. And then as a side effect, your doctors may take you off your medication right as you heal. Like it's not, um, you know, it's the. Prescription after prescription after prescription for the prescriptions when you're still not I, I joke, if my meds were working, we would not be having this conversation today.

I would still be taking them and going about my business, you know, cuz I wouldn't know better. So, yeah, I, I, I love that you shared that because people think, you know, if it's not herbal, you can't do it. And sometimes you need, you know, a heavy hitter. My, my daughter is home visiting and she was just talking about she had sibo and, and she was saying, um, you know, I, I, I really felt the [Page//00:11:00] best when I was on Xifaxan, which is for those who don't know, like a heavy hitting antibiotic.

But, you know, we don't really want somebody on unless they have to be on it. But it was a clear indication. She tried other stuff first. You know, so

Stephanie Center: a huge fan of Xifaxan. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: yeah, it's

Stephanie Center: And you know what, it's what makes sense for the person too. Like I hate that we live in a world where everything is so like it's you're pro and anti. Yeah. It's like, why can't we just do what makes sense?

Julie Michelson: Right, right. And I, I think that's, I will say like in the beginning of. My functional medicine journey, like once I had healed and you know, and I went through the things I think most of us do. It's, it's kind of like the, you know, process of phases of grief. It's like the phases of healing where then when you find out you're the ne I got angry, like, oh my gosh, you know, I, all these things were wrong, you know?

Um, but I [Page//00:12:00] work with an amazing doc and, and I think there is something to be said for. You know, an MD or a DO who's practicing functional medicine who can really marry those worlds is, you know, it, it has shown me that, like, okay. Yeah. The, the best of both worlds is really the best of both worlds.

Stephanie Center: 100%.

Julie Michelson: Yeah. I love it. So you mentioned Gut and, and I. Hope people don't get tired of hearing and I don't think so because it, it's just such a vast topic of gut health and autoimmunity. Right. And, and how does one affect the other? Um, and, and so let's, let's talk a little bit, you know, you said, oh, I probably already had a weakness in my gut and that's why the mold exasperated, or it.

You know, either show, you know, made it pop up to begin with or, um, but what is this, you know, connection. Uh, people are like, oh, here's gut [Page//00:13:00] health, but why is it so important?

Stephanie Center: Oh my goodness. How much time do we

Julie Michelson: I know. Big question.

Stephanie Center: uh, for me, that's where my, that's where mold presented for me. And I think that is kind of a, a unique story. Most, most people aren't going. Oh, yeah. Molding gut. Molding, gut. Um, and so that must have been. And you know, then, then you start to get reflective and you're like, yeah, I remember as a kid when my parents would take me to Olive Garden.

I don't have a tummy ache after that. I didn't, my body didn't like Olive Garden. Um, and you, you kind of go, oh yeah, I probably wasn't like Stellar Health. Like I

Julie Michelson: Well, we normalize. How do you even know? I like you don't know. You're only in your body.

Stephanie Center: Yeah, and you don't, A lot of, and this is true for a lot of women that I serve, that they don't, they don't realize how bad they feel until they start feeling

Julie Michelson: Oh my gosh.

Stephanie Center: And so for me, I woke up vulnerable moment. I woke up one morning and I went 17 [Page//00:14:00] days without a bowel movement, which is super, I was never constipated in my life.

So when this mold hit, it hit me hard. I ended up in the emergency room. Um, ironically at the hospital that I worked at, and, um, yeah, which I thought, well, this was a sh this was a really, um, this was a red flag for me. This was, um, a, a wake up moment for me. Like I had terrible, terrible care. Um, and this is not to, to, to, I love the people I work with.

They,

Julie Michelson: No, no, it's

Stephanie Center: It just, I, I, listen, I packed my bags. I told my husband, I have a small bowel obstruction. I'm going to the emergency room today. They're going to do surgery. Here's what's gonna happen, da da, da, da. So I get there, they do a scan. I do not have a small bowel obstruction. They just said, you are really constipated here.

We're gonna write you a prescription for an enema, and then you're gonna go to Publix across the street, the local grocery store, and you're gonna fill this prescription and go home. And I was like, wow, a thousand dollars later, [Page//00:15:00] um, I could have just gone and gotten over the counter enma and like, also, don't you think I tried this already before coming to you?

So it was just like, and then they're like, and we'll set you up with a gastroenterologist who can meet with you in November. And it was July at the time. So I was just like, whoa, like, and I'm just supposed to suffer between now and then. Um, and, and the, the funny thing about mold, if you don't treat the root cause of mold, which is mold exposure, um, Your problem is not going to go away because mold colonizes and grows in your body.

And so I was on all these different meds to like make me go and really what happened is it almost co caused like bowel incontinence. I remember I was hiking one day and I was like, I think it's coming out of me because my problem wasn't constipation. My problem was this fungal overgrowth in my gut.

That, um, I didn't need Lynnes, right. I didn't need that medication. That didn't solve my problem. And I was just like, what in the world? So I did, you know, the colonoscopies? I did the endoscopies. Well, we [Page//00:16:00] d You're not celiac. We can't Yeah. You're okay. No colon cancer. Great. Thank you. I'm so grateful for that.

But why do I have this problem, this, this horrible problem that won't go away? And um, and I will say too, like healing is a journey. Even after figuring out the mold, it wasn't like I felt good right away, it took years to heal. So if you, if you're listening, like be in it for the long haul, like celebrate your quick wins, but know that you're gonna have good days and bad days.

It's, it's like the stock market. It's gonna go up over time. But listen, there are gonna be some real dips in the meat in the middle. And that, that's kind of my, my story there.

Julie Michelson: That is the first, I've never heard Healing is like a, like the stock market, but you definitely wanna be a long-term investor for sure.

Stephanie Center: Yes.

Julie Michelson: I love that. And it's so true and, and I just had this conversation yesterday. I feel so well, but I feel so well because I do the things. Right. [Page//00:17:00] And then when I'm not doing the things to the, you know, the way I should be, guess what I mean?

Thank God I I will never, cuz I have the power go back to where I was when I was really sick. But you know, I, I know like if I don't get enough sleep two nights in a row, well you better believe that third night I am getting my sleep because I, I just. Can't. Um, and, and we get hit with different stuff and we need to adjust and grow and it's a process that's never done for sure.

Stephanie Center: Absolutely. And I would say also if like if you are somebody on a healing journey, For me, I took it too far. Like I was down to like 11 foods that I trusted, and for a year and a half, I only ate food that I made. I wasn't eating out, I wasn't, and that's not a great quality of life either. So finding that balance of like, of course I'm never gonna eat McDonald's again, but also if I'm going to a wedding, I should be able [Page//00:18:00] to participate in that meal at the wedding.

Right. So finding that like,

Julie Michelson: To a degree.

Stephanie Center: yeah, that middle ground.

Julie Michelson: Yeah. Well, and I do think, I think it's part of the process when we've been so sick. And then we find, you know, what helps us get well, I went through the same thing. Um, and, and that's one of the reasons I always joke with, with clients when we're getting ready to do an elimination diet.

I'm like, I know you think this sounds crazy, but you are not going to want to reintroduce and we are going to do it while we're together because you need the most varied diet that supports you. And, but, so I do think, I think that's very common. Of, you know, we just hold onto, I, I have a client who has RA and ulcerative colitis and I was talking to her yesterday.

She's been doing amazing. Like really quick. It's just crazy, you know, so quickly. And I, that was one of the questions I asked. I said, well, have you been eating out? And she said, yeah. I was like, [Page//00:19:00] yes. You know, you're not just hiding in your house eating these few things cuz that's the point. Big life. We want big life.

Stephanie Center: Big. Oh, I like that pig

Julie Michelson: Yeah, me too. So you, you talked about, and I don't know, for me, I was like, well, yeah, it makes sense. I know we, we mentioned mold can show up anywhere, right? People ask me all the time, well, what are the symptoms? I'm like, what symptoms do you have?

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: It could be, you know, um, at least a factor. And you're right, we initially think of respiratory stuff, you know, that would be something that would lead people to check for mold quicker. I, but I think of toxins and gut health as definitely going together or counter to each other, and mold is a toxin. And so that does make sense to me. Let's talk a little bit about it. It can be mold specific or toxins in general and how that impacts gut.[Page//00:20:00] 

Stephanie Center: Oh, absolutely. Cuz your immune system lives in your gut, right? So, and, and like just basic biology, right? You have one hole from your mouth. To your butt and that you just have one tube and the air you breathe is going into that, that tube. Anything you drink, anything you eat. Um, I, I interviewed, um, Michael Rubino once.

He's the, he's like a mold expert. He's, he wrote the mold medic book and he's, he said something, he blew my mind. He goes, we take 20,000 breaths a day. That's 20,000 opportunities for things to enter our respiratory tract, but also our digestive tract

Julie Michelson: Yeah, and don't stop breathing people.

Stephanie Center: Don't. Yep. Don't hold your breath. Uh, but yeah, I mean there are other toxins outside of mold that exist and that live and, and, and I think that, That's part of this conversation of the microbiome.

Everybody's interested in the microbiome, like, where did this come from? What is this? Um, [Page//00:21:00] and then we could, I mean, if we really wanted to go down that, that rabbit hole of glyphosate and how that strips, you know, the mic, the biodiversity of our soil, so we're not getting biodiversity in our food like we used to.

And that offsets our gut. We we're not, we're not as well equipped. For those toxins that we come in contact to because we already are added disadvantage, uh, biodiversity wise in our gut. Um, I don't know if that answered your question

Julie Michelson: does. I, it, it definitely. Um, and, and again, it's like you said, it's not necessarily mold specific. It's, it's all the toxins. It, you know, you can't separate out glyphosate from I, I'm one, not everybody feels the same way I feel if you had the one, I think. W Health is individualized and, and, um, there's no one plan for everybody.

But I do the, to me, the one [Page//00:22:00] constant is if you have autoimmunity, gluten is not your friend.

Stephanie Center: Hmm.

Julie Michelson: And then I do follow it up with, I, I can't tell you if it's the actual gluten or the glyphosate because you can't separate them out. If you live in this country, you just can't. And so, and it doesn't matter really.

I mean, you know, one day we will know which one's worse. I think it's probably the glyphosate for sure. Um, but when we talk, and that's where it's the how much time do you have conversation, because when we talk about, you know, well, why are autoimmune numbers exploding? You know, and is it. Our food system or is it the toxins?

Well, our food system is toxic, so how do you, like, how do you separate those factors? I think you just can't,

Stephanie Center: no,

Julie Michelson: not to be doom and gloom really,

Stephanie Center: at all because we have agency over all of these things. Right. You can choose what you [Page//00:23:00] eat. We, we could grow our own gardens if we wanted to. We don't have to.

Julie Michelson: I do, and I I cannot wait until. You know, we're gonna plant in probably about three weeks. Um, and, and it, you know, I live somewhere where I don't, I don't grow in the winter other than my parsnips, and I still have some in the garden from last year, which is amazing to me that they can just still be so happy and tasty.

Um, I, I am tempted, my, my best friend lives in Florida in a condo, and she has this like hydroponic indoor. Garden and I'm like, we may need to do that. So we have stuff all winter long because in the summer and I have, you know, clean protein in the freezer in the summer, I barely go to the store at all because we just go outside and get dinner.

Stephanie Center: That's awesome.

Julie Michelson: great, Ben. That's not a reality for everybody. And people say, well, I don't know how to garden. I don't know how to [Page//00:24:00] garden. I just plant stuff and it seems to grow in spite of me. You know, like it's, I am, I am like the least educated gardener and we just added two more garden beds because we just love the abundance of the food all summer.

Um, but again, so, uh, aside from, that's really, you know, taking ownership and, and an opportunity, I do believe that you can, like my friend grows inside, you can garden anywhere, but. That's not a starting point usually for most people. So what are your, like what, what should people be doing and, and, and maybe specifically people with autoimmunity if they're listening.

Let's go back to the mold. Before we get into the food.

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: If somebody's listening and they're like, well, I have symptoms that just don't add up. Right. Or they don't, they don't really know. Um, You know, what should they do? How [Page//00:25:00] do they explore?

Stephanie Center: So there are a couple things you can do if you want to get data on your house. Like if you are thinking, oh, I think my house might have mold, um, there's a test called an army. It's environmental mold relativity index. Um, pretty cheap test to do. You get a wipe or you can get multiple wipes depending on how many spaces you wanna test.

Um, there are pros and cons to the test, just like any test. Uh, but I think overall it gives you the richest amount of data, the be best bang for your buck if you wanted to test this space you're living in. Um, now if you're wanting to test yourself, like, does my, does my body form mold? Uh, there are a few ways you can do that.

You can, uh, great Plains has a great Myco profile. I also like, um, just your regular IgG G um, IgE blood mold test to see like, do you

Julie Michelson: Oh, really?

Stephanie Center: short term reaction to mold or a long-term reaction to mold and the different types. And that can give us, I always think of like, because with mold [Page//00:26:00] you can't look at somebody's report and be like, oh yes.

So you, since 1979 you've been doing, you know, you can't do that. It's not, it's not akin to like, I compare it to a stroke on an m r I, you can look at someone's m r i and you can tell, oh, this stroke was acute, or this stroke was remote. You can't really do that with mold except when you use these blood tests where you can say, oh, you're having an acute response to this, or you're having a long-term response, and then we can go, oh, well maybe your childhood home had this and maybe you don't have it, or something.

It gives, gives us more nuanced information. Um, but I will also say like, if you're gonna test yourself, it makes sense to test your house. Because if your house, if you, if you're positive for it and you don't know about your house, you're not really doing yourself a service

Julie Michelson: Right,

Stephanie Center: you're gonna have constant exposure to it if you're living in a house with it.

Um, that would be, that would

Julie Michelson: can you heal from mold toxicity while you're currently being exposed?

Stephanie Center: yeah. That would be very hard. I don't know. I mean, you can certainly try it. It'd [Page//00:27:00] be just a game of merry round, you know?

Julie Michelson: Yeah, I'm gonna go with No, you

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: I, it was a tra it was a leading question. I, it, I mean, I, you know, can't, I can't swear nobody ever could. Um, but yeah, that's an uphill battle

Stephanie Center: be like trying to paddle a boat that has a hole in it. Like you're not, you're not gonna get very far cuz you have a, you have an entry for water, right?

Julie Michelson: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so say somebody has multi, you know, they, they get tested, they have mold toxicity, they, you know, figure out it's this house.

It was an old house. I lived in South Florida for 13 years,

Stephanie Center: Um,

Julie Michelson: before I got ill, but I have no doubt that that was where I was exposed. Um,

Stephanie Center: place for

Julie Michelson: oh yeah. And I, but you know, call it, it's everywhere now.

Stephanie Center: It is,

Julie Michelson: literally everywhere. When we moved here 20 years ago, we were told, you know, oh, there's no [Page//00:28:00] mold in Colorado Bull. Like, yes, there is, there's mold in Arizona, so it doesn't really, doesn't matter where you live, some places for sure are worse. Um, but I I, if somebody says, you know, they, they do the testing, they find out, okay, I have mold toxicity. We're gonna go after that.

Stephanie Center: Mm-hmm.

Julie Michelson: Is it ever in isolation or you know, do you have people do other things?

Stephanie Center: Oh, that's a great question.

Julie Michelson: Thank you.

Stephanie Center: Ooh, right, because you're, what's a good example of this? Most, most people that have a thyroid problem don't have a thyroid problem because they have a thyroid problem, right? Most people with a thyroid problem have a thyroid problem because they have a problem somewhere else.

So that, that's kind of where the conversation goes with mold is like, well, where is it presenting in your body? What problems is it causing you? And it does, it kind of is like, uh, a choose your own [Page//00:29:00] adventure sort of deal where you're going. Where do we look next? Like what do we think is happening? And you're just kind of appealing the layers of the onion for somebody, um, which is super empowering by the way, when you finally have answers and validation.

Like for like, if you're listening 100%, this is not in your head. Like you are not crazy.

Julie Michelson: Thank you. Yes.

Stephanie Center: are valid and real. Um, and your experience is gonna be different from somebody else's. And that's why, um, I'm really against our cookie cutter healthcare system that kind of treats everybody like they're in an assembly line.

Um, and, and so I think it's so important to, to treat somebody as an individual, as a person. Yeah, we're gonna use lab data to validate your health concerns, but we're not treating the lab data, we're treating the human. And that's gonna look different for everybody.

Julie Michelson: and we're not treating the symptoms, like you said, it's the why, like why, why

Stephanie Center: Yeah, your symptoms are important. They matter. I want you to tell me your symptoms,

Julie Michelson: Oh, absolutely.

Stephanie Center: but yeah, we're not,

Julie Michelson: a pill for your symptom. [Page//00:30:00] It's gonna be, then we're gonna ask, why

Stephanie Center: Why are you

Julie Michelson: that way? Yeah,

Stephanie Center: Amen. Because you're not having a migraine because, You're having a migraine. You're having a migraine cause something else is happening in your body. So yeah, let's, we don't want you to suffer with migraines, but we also need to figure out why you're having them in the first place.

Um, I don't even remember what your question was originally.

Julie Michelson: that it was, so say somebody like, like you mentioned, and for, we'll just take it back to your story. Um, you, you know, mold will, it's opportunistic, right? So it's going to show up in your body where you probably already have something going on, even if you weren't aware. So for you it was gut and we're talking gut health and autoimmunity and, and so I'm guessing you didn't just.

Go after the mold, like, and then that was it. You took the medication, you took the antifungal, and then you were all better.

Stephanie Center: Oh heck no. That was just the, that was the starting line. If this was a marathon, that was like mile [Page//00:31:00] three. Um, because then you, you learn about more healing opportunities in your body. Like, because you have to ask yourself, like, why did, like, if somebody else were to live in this apartment, would the, would they be feeling the same thing as me, or would they.

Julie Michelson: wasn't right,

Stephanie Center: He wasn't, yeah, he, we had very, he did, I mean he did react to the mold, but he was nowhere near as sick as me. And so that made me consider, well, do I need to do genetic testing? Do I need to do, you know, it just kind of opens your mind up to all these things that you could be doing. Cuz ultimately I. We wanna feel, well, we want that, we want a great quality of life.

Um, so no, I didn't just stop at mold. I worked really, really, really hard to heal my gut, um, because I had identified that as a weak spot. And so, um, I did a lot of things. Some things worked and some things didn't. And you just kind of, um, Trial and error things and, and I would say, I would say that as an encouragement, if you're listening and you're like, well, I tried to [Page//00:32:00] heal my gut and it didn't work well, then you didn't try the right thing.

Try something new and work with a practitioner that's not so cavalier that they think that, you know, this is the,

Julie Michelson: way. Yeah. Yeah, and, and work with a practitioner. I mean, I, I healed a majority of, of my symptoms, at least with that before I found a practitioner, but I. I always joke, I don't recommend, I literally, it was like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, right? I would listen to a podcast and try or read a book and try and, because I didn't know there was this thing called functional medicine and that there were people, there were health coaches and practitioners that could help guide, uh, which is why you and I do what we do because we can shortcut for people.

We can really help guide them. Um, but I love what you said. Nobody. There is no. All knowing practitioner or coach or anybody who has the one way to heal, like that's just not, [Page//00:33:00] so you wanna make sure you're, you have somebody who you know, has a lot of tools or will refer you if they're stuck.

Stephanie Center: Absolutely.

Julie Michelson: Yeah. Or partner with people, you know.

I mean, that's, that's

Stephanie Center: do that all the time.

Julie Michelson: what about. This is an opinion question, but it's an educated opinion question. Um, because this is trickier, I think, I find in practice to convince people. Um, somebody comes to you and they have autoimmunity and maybe mold and, and you know, the list, a list of things, but they don't have gut symptoms, right?

Because in I, I think it was easy for you to know you needed to work on gut healing. Right. But what about people who don't have gut symptoms? Do you think they still have gut healing work to do if they have other expressions of autoimmune conditions?

Stephanie Center: Ooh. [Page//00:34:00] That's a great question. I've never been asked that before. I, um, it's funny you mentioned that I'm actually working with a client right now who does, who, who jokes and says she has an iron gut and, um, we have decided to run a GI map on her because she has other symptoms that w that even though they're not digestive, they still kind of nod to the gut.

Like, well may, but maybe this is gut related and we just don't know it yet. Um, cuz the gut plays so many roles in your, in your body. It's not just rest and digest.

Julie Michelson: What are, I'm gonna just keep throwing you under the bus cuz I know you can handle it. What are some of those other things that nod to, that's probably involved somehow?

Stephanie Center: Yeah, so we were talking about cravings. Cravings, um, can maybe indicate some nutritional deficiencies or mal-absorption or something, um, [Page//00:35:00] feelings and this and or overgrowth. Yeah. Um, and, and I'm gonna like say this as a blanket statement, like feelings have maybe anxiety.

Julie Michelson: Yes. I was hoping you were gonna say that.

Stephanie Center: yeah, and I, and I say like there are lots of things that cause anxiety, and I'm not trying to say that it's all related to the gut, but it can be because anxiety can be your body's way of saying, hello, something's wrong.

Pay attention to me.

Julie Michelson: and your neurotransmitters are, most of them are made in the gut. So it's, it's, you know, we think of somebody has anxiety and that stress causes gut problems, but it's like chicken or egg or, and yeah. So I was hoping, I, I was, I. Secretly hoping you were gonna say anxiety as well.

Stephanie Center: All right. I'm glad I hit that ball when you pitched.

Julie Michelson: Hey, I knew you would. Uh, but no, all of them, I mean, so really there's, there's. I don't think, and this has been an evolution for [Page//00:36:00] me, um, because when, when we started learning more and more about the microbiome and the gut, and I was one of those people who rolled my eyes like, uh, everything's the gut.

Everything's the, now. I'm like, oh, holy moly. It really all, like you said it, it may not be the cause, but at some point it's involved and I believe. Unless you've already done that intensive work to heal the gut, like you said, you've done, if you have autoimmunity, you need to heal. Like I, I told, I've yet to find anybody who doesn't have leaky gut, that already has autoimmune expression.

Stephanie Center: Hmm. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: I think one of the drivers, right? Or if you have a high toxic burden, whether it's mold or environmental or metals or all three, which usually, you know, it's a combo, um, chances are pretty good. That has affected the integrity of the gut in some way. Um, and, and [Page//00:37:00] so I really do think that it's. Just gotta be part of a healing protocol.

Is, is, but I find it, the reason I was asking really was personal. I find it harder, it's easy to, to work with people on gut healing when they have severe gut symptoms. Right. But when they think they have an iron gut or they feel fine in that sense, you know, it's harder to get them to make some possibly uncomfortable temporary changes, at least with diet as we're working on healing.

Um, and so I was just curious as to, you know, as to what you see.

Stephanie Center: Yeah, I've, I've definitely come across that. Um, or something, you know, you'll run a hormone panel and, um, like you're probably familiar with the Dutch. The Dutch, they, um, they give you inkin, which

Julie Michelson: Not the Dutch people. By the way, this is the Dutch

Stephanie Center: sorry, dried urine test of [Page//00:38:00] comprehensive hormones. Yes. Good, good, good catch. Um, You get in this world and you, you're like, everybody knows

Julie Michelson: knows what a Dutch is and some people are like, I'm Dutch. What?

Stephanie Center: Um, so that test has a marker that can kind of, or multiple markers in my opinion, that can kind of point to maybe, oh, maybe there's something going on in your gut that we need to pay attention to. And that's, that's kind of the beauty of comprehensive functional Labs, is they give you ideas on. On what's happening in, in a certain place in your body and maybe where to look next.

Um, so that you don't, you never feel, you never have a feeling of hopelessness because you're always going, well, there's something else we can uncover here. There's something else we can do. And so if this isn't your like magic bullet that fixes your problem, guess what? We have another place where we can look for answers because this test points to that.

And it's, I think it's really empowering. To kind of give that to somebody and, and not only validate, like I, [Page//00:39:00] I get, I get a lot of tears from clients. Like, oh my gosh, it's so good to know that. Like, I'm not crazy. Yeah. And there's, and I'll tell you, there's nothing on any of these functional labs that any of us are intimidated by.

Like you have agency over everything on those labs. So you use those labs as validation and then empowerment to heal.

Julie Michelson: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, functional testing is. Can be expensive and, and there are so many rocks to look under that it's, it is great to have the guidance to do like a comprehensive, something comprehensive. I know you used Dutch, I used a different, you know, comprehensive blood tests, but it really gives us the like, okay, you know, this is the, the first rock to look under.

These are the first rocks to look under. Um, cuz I am somebody, because I lived it for so long. That I wanna look under all the rocks, like immediately. Right? Like, I just wanna know, and [Page//00:40:00] that's not realistic for most people and, and not necessary either. Um, and, and so I love that you said, you know, it's a, it's great, it's validating and it also can guide both.

Stephanie Center: Yes. And I, and I wanna clarify, I do not, I do not tell clients, let's do 12 different labs.

Julie Michelson: but I'm saying like, I would if I could, cause I love data, you know.

Stephanie Center: we start with one and then months down the road I'll do another one because that first test is gonna give us a lot of things we can work on. Um, but yeah, I, I also think, but like yourself, I got curious and I was like, I need to do all the tests to see all the things.

Julie Michelson: Yeah.

Stephanie Center: I'm a practitioner so that I should be interested in doing

Julie Michelson: Exactly, exactly. Like this is the I, I'm like, oh wow. They can test that. I wanna try,

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: I wanna see what's going on in there. And that's where like we were talking about glyphosate earlier I had done, I knew I had mold toxicity and I knew I had heavy metal toxicity. I. [Page//00:41:00] And then all of a sudden when I started using for my clients a, a complete toxin panel that also included environmental toxins.

This is after years and years of me living clean and doing the things and healing and detoxing. I was like, well, I wanna, I wanna do a, you know, I haven't done that. I'm gonna run a full panel on me. I was like, holy moly, how like I still have glyphosate through the roof, like somehow I've been able to clear metals and molds, but that I've held onto B P A.

I haven't used plastics in forever. You know, it's wild. And I love, and no, I, it's not really changing anything about how I live. Other than reminding me that maybe I need to be upleveling some of my protocols for myself, cuz I'm human too. Um, but so you don't need, you don't need to do all that testing just when you, when, like you said, when you're living in this world, it's like, you know, I'm curious.

I wanna know.[Page//00:42:00] 

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: I love And we can, and we can find out now, which is exciting.

Stephanie Center: Yeah, I, I love playing detective. I love, and I, I'll be my first Guinea pig, right? Like, I

Julie Michelson: Oh yeah.

Stephanie Center: whenever I hear about a new test, I always run it on myself first, cuz I'm

Julie Michelson: Oh, me too.

Stephanie Center: is this 

ILwA 089 - Stephanie Center - Stephanie: helpful? 

Stephanie Center: I, let's see,

Julie Michelson: Yeah. I did a new D N A test, new to me DNA n a test last year, and I was like, This is cool. Like I, we did it to see, would you know, would it be useful for clients and patients? Like, is it something, and for me it was like, oh look, I have a genetic predisposition to procrastinate. This is.

Stephanie Center: That's awesome.

Julie Michelson: My, my daughter was complaining about that I am very deadline motivated, like my daughter was, was complaining about, and I'm like, sorry, it's genetic.

Stephanie Center: In your jeans.

Julie Michelson: saying our genes are our destiny people. It's just fun [Page//00:43:00] to explore some of these things and be like, oh, so we covered a lot. And you can pick from something you've already talked about or totally out of the blue.

But what is one thing that listeners can do today? Like if they were nodding along with any of this conversation, what's something they can do to start to move their needle on their health?

Stephanie Center: Yeah, I love this question and I always have like 18 different answers picked out,

Julie Michelson: I know,

Stephanie Center: I don't know what I wanna say more.

Julie Michelson: out.

Stephanie Center: Okay, so we've been talking about mold, so I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell, I'm just gonna say two things, if that's okay. Two free things you can do. Okay. One thing, open your windows, get ventilation.

Okay. Your, like your outdoor air is, I would argue, almost always cleaner than your indoor air. So get ventilation in your house. Open your windows for 30 minutes a day. Um, that's easy. It's free. Um, it should [Page//00:44:00] feel good to have like outdoor air coming in. Yeah. Fresh air. Um, even in the wintertime, even if you live in northern Michigan, yes.

Do it for 30 minutes a day. It won't kill you. Um, and the other thing is take your shoes off. When you get in your house, that's another free thing you can do. You know what you're tracking in. You don't want me to tell you what's living on the bottom of your shoes, and especially if you have carpet. 100%.

Please take your shoes off when you get into your home.

Julie Michelson: For babies and toddlers and people that are gonna be

Stephanie Center: oh my gosh. Yeah.

Julie Michelson: crawling around on the floor.

Stephanie Center: I have a six month old who is rolling,

Julie Michelson: That's why I said it.

Stephanie Center: Yeah. Multiple times. Like I turned around just earlier today and she had rolled like three consecutive times. She was like on the other side of the room and I was like, oh no, this is starting already. Yes. I need to get one of those baby jails, one of those like pack and plays to put her in now.

Julie Michelson: for a little while until she can break out.

Stephanie Center: Yeah. Until she can be, oh.

Julie Michelson: Sorry. That'll be a while. You, you'll [Page//00:45:00] have respite in between, so, but that's awesome. So open those windows. I, I love saying that all. I'm so glad you said that. We were talking about new construction, you know, also potentially having mold, and this is one of the reasons why it, it, it can be such a problem is because now.

For code and to pass inspection. Homes have to be too airtight, I think too airtight, like they have to pa I watched them, I built the home that we live in now, and I, I watched them do that test where they make sure you know when everything's closed up and that's the best solution is okay, open those windows.

You know, we all think like, oh no, but I have. You know, like I do, I have air filters and I, but we don't tend to really remember that the air outside is so much cleaner than the air inside the house. For sure. So I love that tip. I'm really glad you gave that one. And the shoes thing, it's, it's funny, [Page//00:46:00] the things that when I was young, I used to think were kind of like neurotic. just smart. Like, it's

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: it's just, it's just based in good science. Um, so really great tips. I'm glad you gave both cause you got the bonus. It's, it's so hard to give just one.

Stephanie Center: There's, so you have more agency over your health than you realize. You really do.

Julie Michelson: I love that. And that's what exactly why we have these conversations. That's the whole point. Because chronic illness can be so disempowering, and that's why Steph and I are here is to help you take your power back.

Stephanie Center: Yeah.

Julie Michelson: So for those that listen like I do, which is usually on the go, where's the best place for listeners to find you?

Stephanie Center: Yeah, so I, I have a little podcast, um, it's called Revolutionary Health with Stephanie Center. It's on any and all of your favorite, uh, podcast

Julie Michelson: Same [Page//00:47:00] as these. Yep.

Stephanie Center: Yep. So just type in, you can just type in my name, Stephanie Center, and I guarantee you it'll come up. Um, I have similar conversations as, as Julie, I, um, I like to interview people.

I, I kind of challenge because I came from a traditional medicine world for so long. I, I kind of interview people in traditional and functional and kind of challenge ideologies and beliefs on both sides and kind of see, you know, well, what's your approach? Why is this your approach? Um, and just kind of all, like, all goodhearted and I'm not, um, The intent is just for, to learn, for you to learn and make your own decisions about things.

Um, and I'm also, uh, you can find me on Instagram at Holistic Stephanie Marie. I try to post content there regularly and I have

Julie Michelson: so much better at it than I am. Check out her, her Instagram is awesome.

Stephanie Center: I'm gonna age myself. I was out of graduate school when Instagram came out, so I feel a little bit like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I've figured out the highlights thing and I have [Page//00:48:00] highlights where I'll go, I'll go to Costco or Trader Joe's or you know, name your favorite grocery store and I'll take pictures of organic processed foods and I'll ask you, is this healthy or not?

And you'll be surprised what, even though it's LA u s d or organic, what is

Julie Michelson: Well, but you said processed.

Stephanie Center: Processed. Yes. Processed foods. Yeah. The, the, the produce. I don't need to take a picture of cuz you just know,

Julie Michelson: right.

Stephanie Center: but it's interesting what they sneak into processed foods. So if you're interested in like how to navigate, like if you're going to buy something processed, like we, we all do, we all buy something that's processed.

Um, how to, how to support those companies that are making

Julie Michelson: it right?

Stephanie Center: Yeah. So, um, I would 100% pay an extra 45 cents for the non Whole Foods brand. If they're not putting Canola oil in their product, something,

Julie Michelson: Yeah, I wish they would just take that out of the store, although they'd have to clear the store. So

Stephanie Center: have to, yeah.

Julie Michelson: do you know if you, if you, if you go to the, the store in [Page//00:49:00] Austin, if you go to their flagship store, they don't use canola oil because Austin won't stand for it.

Stephanie Center: I've to their flagship store.

Julie Michelson: Yeah, they don't use canola oil.

Stephanie Center: I wanna say their hop bar still had it,

Julie Michelson: Then it was one of the other stores in Austin. There's, I've been to one in Austin that, and it's because the people, the locals

Stephanie Center: Good for them.

Julie Michelson: we won't buy this. And then of course you could look forward another store and I've never, it was one, one store and you could get like grilled veggies with olive oil.

You, yeah, I would, yeah. So.

Stephanie Center: I would 100% give them my business at the hot bar if they would swap out the canola

Julie Michelson: me too.

Stephanie Center: But they won't. So I don't, I don't give

Julie Michelson: that would be my go-to when I travel would be, you know,

Stephanie Center: And that, that was our thought, like when, cuz we were going to like DC we had all these trips and we were like, well, we'll just go to the Whole Foods hot bar.

And then we got there and we're like,

Julie Michelson: like, where? Where,

Stephanie Center: yeah. I was really disappointed in that[Page//00:50:00] 

Julie Michelson: See, we could travel together. Steph, I'm with you. Find that clean food.

Stephanie Center: Yes. So anyways, those are the places you can find me. Um, I love interacting with people. Um, so yeah. Come, come say hello.

Julie Michelson: Stephanie, thank you so much. You have shared amazing gold with us today.

Stephanie Center: Well, thanks for having me. I've, I've been following your work for, for quite some time and it's great to finally connect with you

Julie Michelson: And likewise. I know you were busy having a baby for a while, and so I'm glad we finally got to sit down and do it

Stephanie Center: Yeah. Thank you.

Julie Michelson: For everyone listening, remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspiredliving.show. Hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.