Episode 83
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Today I had an amazing conversation with Dr. Anshul Gupta about Hashimoto's disease and the significant role mold toxins play in autoimmune conditions.
🔹 Hashimoto's is the most common autoimmune disease and affects the thyroid gland. It's caused by a combination of genetic makeup and environmental triggers, leading to antibody production and the destruction of the thyroid gland.
🔹 Dr. Gupta identified five major categories of environmental triggers for Hashimoto's:
🔎 Symptoms that might indicate mold exposure include sensitivity to random foods or smells, skin rashes, mood swings, brain fog, and inflammation. Mold allergy testing is different from mold toxin testing, and labs like Great Plains Lab and Real Time Labs offer urine tests to check mold toxin levels in the body.
🔄 Retesting typically happens every four to six months because mold toxins are difficult to eliminate. It's crucial to address not only the mold toxins but also the damage they cause to the body, which can include chronic inflammatory response syndrome, gut issues like leaky gut, and cellular apoptosis (cell death) that can impact thyroid function.
⚠️ When it comes to detoxification, Dr. Gupta warns against self-administered detox protocols, as they can cause severe side effects and even hospitalization. Detox should be done under the guidance of a qualified professional.
🏡 Determining whether mold exposure is current or past can be challenging. Two ways to check a house or building for mold include hiring a contractor for a visual inspection or using an ERMI test that analyzes dust and air samples. However, both methods have drawbacks. It's crucial to hire a mold specialist for remediation.
🌱 Simple ways to improve detoxification include drinking water, exercising or practicing yoga, and eating a high-fiber diet. Focus on the basics to help reduce the toxic burden on the body and prevent the need for advanced detoxification treatments.
In conclusion, it's essential to be aware of the potential impact of mold toxins on autoimmune conditions and take the necessary steps to address them. Remember to always consult with a qualified professional before attempting any detoxification process.
Here are the highlights from our chat:
🔹 Dr. Gupta's interest in Hashimoto's disease was ignited by seeing numerous patients with similar symptoms at the Cleveland Clinic Functional Medicine Department, who were often dismissed or misdiagnosed by traditional doctors.🔹 Hashimoto's is the most common autoimmune disease and affects the thyroid gland. It's caused by a combination of genetic makeup and environmental triggers, leading to antibody production and the destruction of the thyroid gland.
🔹 Dr. Gupta identified five major categories of environmental triggers for Hashimoto's:
- Food sensitivities (e.g., gluten, dairy, soy, corn, processed meats, and sugars)
- Nutritional deficiencies (e.g., selenium, magnesium, B vitamins)
- Stress
- Infections (e.g., Epstein-Barr virus, parasites, Candida, Lyme)
- Toxins (e.g., heavy metals, environmental toxins, mold toxins)
🔎 Symptoms that might indicate mold exposure include sensitivity to random foods or smells, skin rashes, mood swings, brain fog, and inflammation. Mold allergy testing is different from mold toxin testing, and labs like Great Plains Lab and Real Time Labs offer urine tests to check mold toxin levels in the body.
🔄 Retesting typically happens every four to six months because mold toxins are difficult to eliminate. It's crucial to address not only the mold toxins but also the damage they cause to the body, which can include chronic inflammatory response syndrome, gut issues like leaky gut, and cellular apoptosis (cell death) that can impact thyroid function.
⚠️ When it comes to detoxification, Dr. Gupta warns against self-administered detox protocols, as they can cause severe side effects and even hospitalization. Detox should be done under the guidance of a qualified professional.
🏡 Determining whether mold exposure is current or past can be challenging. Two ways to check a house or building for mold include hiring a contractor for a visual inspection or using an ERMI test that analyzes dust and air samples. However, both methods have drawbacks. It's crucial to hire a mold specialist for remediation.
🌱 Simple ways to improve detoxification include drinking water, exercising or practicing yoga, and eating a high-fiber diet. Focus on the basics to help reduce the toxic burden on the body and prevent the need for advanced detoxification treatments.
In conclusion, it's essential to be aware of the potential impact of mold toxins on autoimmune conditions and take the necessary steps to address them. Remember to always consult with a qualified professional before attempting any detoxification process.
Other Resources:
Connect with Anshul Gupta
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: [Page//00:00:00] Welcome back to The Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michaelson, and today we are joined once again by Dr. Anshul Gupta, MD.
Dr. Gupta is a best-selling author, speaker, researcher, and world expert in Hashimoto's Disease. He educates people worldwide on reversing Hashimoto's. If you missed our previous conversation, [Page//00:01:00] I encourage you to check out episode nine.
In today's conversation, we're discussing the common root causes for Hashimotos and all autoimmune conditions. Dr. Gupta shares his ex expertise and gives us action steps that we can take immediately to start improving our health.
Dr. Gupta, welcome to the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Thank you so much, Julie. Uh, it's a pleasure being over here. Last time we had a lot of fun, you know, sharing a lot of information about Hashimotos and definitely honored to be back over here to talk about more than other things.
Julie Michelson: I'm so excited to continue this conversation, and dig in even a little bit deeper. I know you already shared your story with us, but I, I'd love for you to share a little bit with listeners because I, it's always so fascinating, I think, for people to hear that doctors get sick too.
I know what drew you into the world of, of functional medicine?
Anshul Gupta, MD: [Page//00:02:00] Absolutely. Yes. You know, you correctly said, you know, unless you know, uh, we as physicians or any practitioners go through our own health struggles, nobody kind of join this bag of functional medicine. Right. Because conventionally we are kind of so much hardwired that, okay, well conventional medicine is the only way of moving forward.
It is scientific research base. We don't know that there is the whole world out there. Whole world of. Research out there, which supports functional medicine or integrative medicine. So I was, again, a hardwired, conventional medicine doctor, a family physician, seeing a lot of patients on a daily basis.
Couple of years into my practice, my health started struggling and I started gaining weight. You know, or even though did not change anything with my diet or with my lifestyle. I was having this horrible, horrible stomach. The pain will hit me randomly. You know, like doesn't matter what I eat. Sometimes some food will react.
The other times the other food will be bad for me, I had no idea what was causing the stomach pain. I was [Page//00:03:00] feeling so much tired that during the day I had to take a nap or just feel like very drowsy, just to kind of complete the whole day. And if I struggle through the whole day, at the end of the day, I felt so brain foggy.
Like, you know, I was not able to concentrate on things, you know, like just not able to pay attention to each and everyth. Uh, so, so many things were going on and I had no idea what was causing it. I was very young, 32 years of age, right at the time. But I thought, oh, I'm a smart doctor. Let me fix this. You know, like my stomach problem, that might be helpful for me, right?
Started taking medications. One medications, two medications, three medications. Nothing changed, you know, I took them for a couple of months, nothing was changing, so I thought, well, maybe I'm not a smart doctor. Let me go to these specialists. Maybe they're smarter than me. So then I approached specialists after specialist, went to the GS specialist, did endoscopies, colonoscopies, ultrasounds, blood work, nothing was there.
He added more medications even though he did not find anything. He said, well, [Page//00:04:00] let's add more medications to see. That would be helpful. Nothing changed. So an allergy specialist, you know, saw other bunch of specialists and did tons of testing. And literally nothing showed up over there. And no, nobody had any idea what was going on.
They all had this statement that maybe it's in your mind, maybe you're just too stressed out. And I were like, well, I have been stressed out seeing patients, but you know, I have been doing this for a while, so I don't think that's an issue. But I was 32 years of age, no way moving forward. I was taking more than five medications.
Nothing was getting better. So that's the time I found functional medicine. Well, okay, like functional medicine has stories about these, you know, like crazy patients, you know, like who were refuted by their doctors that just being in their head and suddenly they got better. So I got trained in myself into functional medicine.
You know, I kind of found the root cause of my issues and then made a step-wise plan to address them. Simple plan, some lifestyle changes, some basic supple. [Page//00:05:00] And then boom, the results were awesome. Within one month, my complete pain was gone. Within six, six months. Yeah, within six months, I was able to get off all the medications.
I lost 40 pounds. You know, my brain fog was gone. I had so much energy in my life that I even competed for a 5K rugged maniac,
Julie Michelson: Wow.
Anshul Gupta, MD: I was never an athletic person. So for me to do that was a big.
Julie Michelson: Wow. Amazing. And, and your, your story and that's why I wanted you to share it again. It is it, Unfortunately still so common. That's the path for people, you know, specialists after specialist medication, after medication test, after test, and then out of, you know, sheer desperation. They somehow, hopefully find functional medicine or integrative medicine and get real answers to root cause.
And, and so what I love about your story is how quickly. Just by [Page//00:06:00] addressing your route drivers, you were able to, you know, at first get rid of the pain and then get off the medications and, and like you said, lose weight, be energetic. Um, and this is why we do what we do and why we have the conversation so that people know that there is, there is a way to get help.
Um, and I was curious as you were sharing your story, If anybody was gonna say, suggest, perhaps it was in your head because I, I find it so common, especially with women as patients, that they're, they're told, you know, of course you're tired, you have kids or, you know, which is very different than fatigue, as we all know.
Um, so interesting that, that you heard that same story that, that most of us have.
Anshul Gupta, MD: And exactly. That was the reason I became specialist to Hashimotos. You know, because when I started working at the Cleveland Clinic Functional Medicine Department with Dr. Mark Hyman, so I was seeing all these females, you know, who were coming to see me with very [Page//00:07:00] similar symptoms and spine. They were all struggling with weight issues.
They all had gut problems. They were all tired. They had like, you know, brain fog symptoms, gut problems. And the, the biggest thing was that they were going to these doctors who were giving them medicines. They were trying to do whatever the doctors were telling, still not getting better, and they were giving different labels.
Oh, you just became a mom. Oh, you are a busy professional. Oh, you're taking care of your. Old parents, oh, you are taking care of like, you know, your work and your house. And so they were being told again, time and again that it's your fault. It's basically in your head or you are causing all of these symptoms.
There is nothing real about your symptoms. So I felt so bad about these Hashimotos patients that are decided. I need to dig deeper, figure out what is wrong with them, why they are feeling the way and made a path forward for them. So that's where I made this. Call to kind of dig into the root cause of the problems of [Page//00:08:00] Hashimotos and then apply the protocol into my patients and saw, again, phenomenal results.
Everybody got better, not only with their symptoms, but with their antibody numbers, thyroid numbers, so it's so, so fascinating to see, as you said, in a short amount of time, you can actually reverse or improve a disease, which people have been told that they will have to live for the rest of their.
Julie Michelson: Abso. Amen. Absolutely. Let's, let's start at the beginning and, and for those, you know, that, that a, the few listening that, that don't have Hashimotos or some kind of autoimmune thyroid condition, um, what is, what is Hashimotos exactly?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So Hashimotos is the most common autoimmune disease world over, you know, uh, we have several autoimmune conditions, several autoimmune diseases which are happening, and Hashimotos being the most common one. We have, obviously, [Page//00:09:00] rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, s l e ms, that comes after that. Uh, Hashimotos is an autoimmune condition of the thyroid gland.
The interesting piece of it is that each and every autoimmune condition, the pathology is exactly the. It's basically an interplay between your genetic makeup and the environment triggers around you. And when those environment triggers, you know, like, you know, mix along with your genetic makeup leads to antibody productions in your body.
And these antibodies, depending on the weak points of your body, start destroying different areas. So in Hashimotos, they destroy the thyroid gland. In rheumatoid arthritis, they destroy the joints in ms. They destroy the brain in the nerve. On and on and on. But the pathology is the same. So in Hashimotos, again, what people don't know is that there are antibodies which are leading to the destruction of the thyroid gland, and eventually they reach a point where the thyroid is not able to produce enough thyroid hormone.
And [Page//00:10:00] that's where the conventional medicine wants to put all these Hashimotos patients with thyroid medicine. But in reality, people don't know that these thyroid medicines are not doing anything at all to address the underlying problem of inflammation or autoimmunity. That destruction of the thyroid gland keeps on happening each and every day.
Julie Michelson: It's so frustrating for me. I am one of those people that for years, you know, I think I have a thyroid condition. This was well into my rheumatoid arthritis journey, and if, if we would test antibodies, I mean, we, to do, you do. But if, if these markers would be included in, you know, lab work that your primary care doctor was running, instead of having to beg and demand, you know, educate yourself and then ask for the tests.
We, I mean, the amount of people you could prevent from ever even having expressed thyroid, you know, issues. [Page//00:11:00] It would be remarkable cuz as you mentioned, you know, Hashimoto's is the most prevalent autoimmune condition. Um, for me, I was told this is how backwards my rheumatologist had it, I was told that when they finally were like, oh yeah, you, you know, when my ta when I was finally symptomatic enough, my t s H was now, you know, showing something cuz that's all they were looking at.
She said, and of course then they put me on the wrong medications and still weren't addressing root cause. But she said at the time, well, uh, yeah, because of your ra it just has worn down. Your thyroid still not looking for autoimmune thyroid at all. And, and this is a rheumatologist, this is what she treats is autoimmunity.
You know, so it's just fascinating and we just have it so backwards. You know, the, when we understand. What we're doing in this world of functional medicine and root cause. You can also take it [Page//00:12:00] as prevention. It's the same, you know, we, we can just avoid ever getting there. Um, and, and so thank you for simplifying and, but really explaining, you know, kind of how that happens.
Um, I'd love to touch on triggers, and specifically today, you already know the one that I, I really wanna dig into because I feel like it, it's just, it's such a common driver of all autoimmunity, not just, you know, Hashimoto's and, and thyroid conditions. Um, but what are, what are the, these common environmental triggers that you see?
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yeah, so the most common environment triggers have divided them into five major categories. The first categories of food sensories food is medicine, but the wrong foods can also lead to triggering our disease. So foods like gluten, dairy, soy, corn, processed meats, processed fugo foods. Sugars. [Page//00:13:00] All of these foods, you know, are not good for our body, and we know time and again that they have been linked to triggering autoimmune conditions.
Hashimotos, rheumatoid arthritis, whatever it is, right? So that's the first trigger. The second is nutritional deficient. Our body needs nutrition specific vitamins and minerals to function properly. And now we know that our food currently is low in vitamins and minerals as compared to 20 years ago there was a recess study done, which compared to the nutrition analysis of the food, which we have currently from 1980s, and clearly it shows that we are deficient into specific minerals which are needed by the thy.
Like selenium, like magnesium, like, you know, uh, B vitamins. All of those things are lower as compared to before. So even though we think we are eating the healthiest diet, but if our food itself is deficient into vitamins and minerals, then we are not getting them enough. The third thing is stress. So are, we are going [Page//00:14:00] through a lot of stressful situations, you know, whether it is a pandemic stress or whether it is a work stress or personal stress, just the world has become more stressful.
These. We are always in that go, go, go mode, which basically puts too much pressure on our body. And again, that leads to triggering of Hashimotos, especially in females. You know, like unfortunately they go through these hormonal cascade of changes, whether it is pregnancy, you know, post delivery or menopause, all of these things.
Hormonal changes definitely leads to figuring of Hashimotos. We know. Then fourth is the infections. You know, there are certain infections which have been associated viral infections like Epstein bar virus or infections. Monolo is what it is called about, has been associated with several studies. You know, with Hashimotos, there are certain parasites in the gut, like blastocystis, which has been associated with, again, Hashimotos, and then candida infections or Lyme [Page//00:15:00] infections.
Those are again, chronic infections. Can, again, trigger Hashimoto disease. And the last category is the toxin. The toxins are majorly divided to three categories. One is heavy metals that we have known that they definitely cause a lot of destruction to our body, like mercury, like lead, arsenic, you know, they are definitely toxic to our body.
Then we have environmental toxins each and every day we are producing more and more chemicals. And these chemicals, what they are doing, they're doing, they lead destruction of our body, whether it is the pesticides or the organic phosphate, you know that we are spraying our food. Or that, that is like chemicals that we are putting into our like cleaning supplies or like, you know, household things, right?
Or even skin product, right? All of those things are toxic. And the last one is the mole toxins, right? Those are the mole toxins. So we knew about mold toxins for a long time, but interestingly we knew about mold toxins as a potential problem in animals, especially in live. [Page//00:16:00] Because you know, like the livestock, you know, they were exposed to mold toxins mainly through food, like, you know, the grains and things which were not stored properly.
They will grow mold and then that moldy food when they will consume, they will have mold toxins and they'll have a host of health issues. And nobody actually, I was very surprised and nobody actually put two and two together, that if animals are getting more toxins, humans can get it.
Julie Michelson: And we're eating those animals and some people are consuming those animals milk. So it would make sense that, that,
Anshul Gupta, MD: right.
Julie Michelson: um, and, and that is,
Anshul Gupta, MD: smart doctors.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And that's such a common exposure. You know, people tend to think mold and they only think moldy building. Um, and, and they really are thinking mildew, right? Not necessarily the mold and mycotoxins that, that can really trigger what we're talking about.
Um, so do you see this as, as. I, I, I know they're all [Page//00:17:00] so common and prevalent and, and um, then I used to say, when I was first figuring out how to get well, you know, I was looking for my root cause like in the singular, and then I realized there's no such thing. It's always more than one thing. And there could be a main driver, you know, that thing that tips us over the edge.
Um, but do you see mold and mycotoxin? You know, as a, as a contributor, more and more common. And then is it because we're testing for it more or is it just more prevalent?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So definitely it is very common. You know, like almost each and every of my client, I would say every second client of mine do have some kind of toxins and very frequently it's a more toxins. So yes, you know, you are correct that, you know, we don't know the exact, uh, like statistics because previously there was no test to check for more toxins.
And obviously now we have this. So that's the reason we are testing more. So we are being more aware of. [Page//00:18:00] But I think it's a total toxin burden. That's what it's causing the problem, because we just have one detox system in our body and that can only handle so many toxins. And I think so that's where the heavy metals are there.
The environmental toxins are increasing, but the mold toxins, they're so toxic that even at small levels, they can completely hijack the immune system and turn your body against your own body. And that's the worst part about it. I think the other toxins slow. Slowly build up and then start a very slow destruction while mold, toxins can eat up, you know, like inflammatory response in your body.
And then suddenly, like, you know, we see a big surge, you know, of uh, inflammatory chemicals which are produced in the body and that leads to in autoimmune conditions. So I think definitely mold is a bigger, biggest trigger. Of majority of the autoimmune patients. As you said, there are def other contributors too, so just working on mold is not going to fix the problem.
But definitely that's the biggest [Page//00:19:00] piece that will make the huge shift for most of my clients.
Julie Michelson: And I, I so love and I, I wanna lead into giving a little more information about testing, but I love that you highlighted. You know, we're, we're so used to this model of, you know, through Western medicine of like, here are your lab results, and if you're in this range, you're fine. And, and especially with mold and mycotoxins, somebody doesn't need to be off the charts if they have autoimmunity and they're showing exposure.
You know, the, the, there's no exact, you know, you what your body can tolerate and what my body can tolerate may not be the same thing. And again, we've got all these other factors are we accounting for. Um, and, and so I think that's so important to highlight that somebody doesn't need to have a really scary looking re mo results on their mycotoxin panel for that to really be a major player in their autoimmunity.[Page//00:20:00]
Anshul Gupta, MD: Absolutely. Look, most people will say, well, I don't think. Exposed to mold, you know, because what people having in mind is that their walls should be covered with black mold or like, you know, they will have this black mold everywhere in, around their sink or anything. No, actually the, the mold we are talking about doesn't even have to be black mold.
It can be just simple white mold. It, it is gently hidden. In your insulation walls or behind the walls a lot of times, or in your floors. So you might not even know about it. It might not even be in your house. It might be at the workplace, or it might be an Ar b Airbnb or a hotel or a place that you visited and you got exposed to it.
Right? So, you know, they're different exposure sometimes, you know, like, you know, food as we said, can be an exposure too, especially coffee. You know, there's certain coffee beans, you know, can have mold in them, right? Nothing against coffee. I love coffee myself.
Julie Michelson: There's a little plug for purity coffee. Everybody. Make sure you're, if you're, if you're a coffee, if you're a coffee lover, which I am, you know, you, you can [Page//00:21:00] get beans that have been tested and are as clean as, as we can source, you know, in this country. Um, so, so how do you, because so many people don't know that they've been exposed, and I love that.
You know, again, you went back to the, it's not necessarily you're living in this dam. You know, environment covered in black mold. What do you, I, I'm guessing you, you're a, a fan of testing. What, what kind of testing should people be looking for?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So absolutely before the testing, you know, like obviously, because testing as you know, is expensive. Not everybody kind of, you know, can afford it and not each and every person should get the testing. So there are certain. Symptoms that can kind of tell people that whether they might be exposed to mold or not.
So people who have become very, very sensitive to things like, you know, they're reacting to random foods or random smells or random things, they're breaking down to hives or their skin rashes that, you know, like that is happening to them, um, that is [Page//00:22:00] causing. Problems if they're runny nose, if they have itchy eyes or burning eyes.
Those are, are they in symptoms? If their mood is changing very quickly, like sometime they're feeling anxious, the other time they're feeling depressed. So that mood swings, which is happening if they're feeling brain foggy, you know, like, especially like if they are not able to concentrate, they feel that the memory is not as good as it was before.
Uh, all of these symptoms, inflammation in the body. That is another big thing. Like people come to me saying that I have inflammation in the body. I feel my joints are swollen, or my body's swollen, or I feel pain general in my body. So these are all symptoms or signs that you might be going through the mold toxicity.
So if you have any of those things, then definitely there is a high suspicion that you could be checking for mold toxins. Now, how do you check for more toxins? Unfortunately, the regular labs do not have any tests to check for more toxins, so there are only a couple of labs which will actually check for more toxins.
The other piece, what [Page//00:23:00] people don't understand is that as soon as we talk about mold testing, they will go to their allergy doctor and get an allergy test for the mold, and they say, well, I don't have more toxins because he tested me for it. Well, mold allergy is different, completely different thing from mold toxin.
Mold allergies. Just saying that if you do get exposed to mold spores, whether your body is going to react, you know, in an allergic fashion. While what we are talking about is mycotoxins, is that those mold spores have already entered your body, you got exposed to it, and then this start this production of toxins in your body, which we call as Microtoxin.
And we want to know the levels of those microtoxins in your body, because those microtoxins are the one which are driving this whole autoimmune process. So a couple of labs are there, like Great Plains Lab, you know, in real time labs. They have been there for several years now. It's a urine test. They basically check [Page//00:24:00] and remember they're at least seven to eight microtoxins. They check four and tell you the levels of those microtoxins in your body. Because we just don't want to know whether they're present or not. We also want to know their levels so that, you know, once you start working on them, you can see those levels coming down.
So that's the way we do the testing. You know, through this, you know, these specialized labs.
Julie Michelson: And I love that you'd, you know, let people know the, the urine test is, is the, you know, the way to go for sure. Um, you mentioned fo kind of following, how, how o you know long do you wait once somebody is. Doing it their whatever detox protocol you have them on to retest, to make sure things are moving in the right direction.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Four to six months. You know, like more toxins are very difficult to get out, you know, like from a person's body. So I think before four months it doesn't make any sense. So four to six months is average amount of time that we retest our clients.
Julie Michelson: And, and when we're talking about, especially [Page//00:25:00] people with autoimmunity and Hashimotos, you know how. How can they, and I think the key to detox is, is safe, right? How can they safely detox from old toxicity?
Anshul Gupta, MD: Absolutely. So before, kind of, you know, like talking about the. Aspect, and that's what you know, I want to also let people know, is that they don't that just mold toxins are just not about the toxins, it's about the damage they're doing to your body. So we not only have to detoxify or remove the mold toxins, we also have to work on the damage which has been done, uh, so that you know, like you feel better.
So the mold toxins actually cause damage in various different mechanisms or. So first of all, the mold toxins cause something serves, which is C I R S, which is chronic inflammatory response syndrome. What has been seen in these microtoxins can directly hijack [Page//00:26:00] your immune system, and by hijacking your immune system, they actually turn them on, you know, continuously they're turned on.
So they're producing these inflammatory markers all the time in your. These inflammatory markers are the ones which are triggering those antibodies and, and triggering the destruction of your own body. So very, very important to know, like, you know, this destruction through mold toxins is by causing this inflammatory response.
And second of all, the mold toxins actually also affect your gut causing leaky gut issues. You know, like, and we know that the leaky gut is basically the way the process of starting the autoimmune process. So the mold toxins directly goes to your gut and then directly causes leaky gut problems. And the research kind of shows that the mold toxins can do that.
And the third way is they also is that they are actually directly attacking the cells also. So not only they're kind of causing an indirect damage by cause of increasing inflammation, but they can cause something called cellular apoptosis. [Page//00:27:00] So apoptosis in like, you know, medical terminology is basically cell death.
And you know, because we need old cells to die and the new cells to form. But what mold does is that it also causes the death of the newer cells also. So our body is lacking, you know, like the appropriate cells, especially in thyroid, if they don't have cells, they do not produce enough thyroid hormone, right?
So these are all the mechanisms through which the mold toxins are destroying the, you know, whether it's thyroid, whether it is the joints or anything else. We not only had to remove the mold toxins, we have to fix the damage which was done so people can feel. Now the most common, like, you know, mistakes that people do is that, okay, well let me just go on a detox protocol Now, detox protocol is not so easy, right?
You know, there has to be an understanding of what we are doing because there are different phases of the detox, phase one, phase two, and phase three. And what most people do is that, oh, let me just take a binder, or let me [Page//00:28:00] just take this, you know, kind of supplement like glutathione or something, which is going to help get removed my mold toxins.
Well, what it does is that these mold toxins are hiding in your system. Whether it is your fatty tissues, whether it's your thyroid, or whether it other, you know, in your bone areas, right? Once you start taking these detox supplements like glutathione, they start coming out in your blood and start circulating in your blood.
And if you do not take the next step of removing these toxins from your blood to the outside of your body, then they start actually doing a lot of damage. That's the, that's the reason people will see a lot of die of reactions and they'll feel horrible symptoms of feeling tired, diarrhea, you know, being on the bed, you know, uh, throwing up episodes and they'll say, oh, well, you know, these are just normal die of reactions and this will get better.
You know, like, but it gets to get worse first. And, uh, I tell them, no, that's not true. It doesn't have to get worse. This is where people land up in the hospital or emergency room. By doing [Page//00:29:00] these improper detoxes, we have seen so many cases of people damaging their liver just by trying to do this detox protocol.
You know, like, which they kind of bought on internet or just thought, you know, that'll be useful. So I tell people that detox, detox is something that is the only thing that you should not be trying on your own. Uh, you have to work with a qualified professional who knows what they're doing.
Julie Michelson: Could say that again, please. It's, it's just scary to me, you know, because I was saying before we hit record, I just had somebody ask me, well, just tell me how to detox. And I'm like, this is already someone who's too sick to work right now, and I'm no. Um, I, I quote often the doctor I work with here locally, and he always says, detox should be slow and boring.
Like, you should not notice there's no push through. Um, and, and that's, uh, so important and what you highlighted for people, you know, the body is clever. Even, [Page//00:30:00] even though the toxins are still doing damage, it's, it's. Kind of tucks these toxins away, even if it's places like thyroid that we don't, you know, bones that we, we don't want the, the, the toxins in our body at all, but people don't realize how much sicker they can make themselves by reci, recirculating and recirculating.
So thank you for really. Educating us on that. If, if you, listeners, if you take one thing away from this, it is do not go look up a detox protocol online and, and get started. Um, and what are, what about, you know, if, say somebody does do testing and they, they have, you know, clear mycotoxin issues contributing to their autoimmunity.
How important is it for them to find out, you know, whether their mold exposure is current or past? You know, can somebody, cuz that's expensive too, right? I, I have people push back, [Page//00:31:00] um, with testing cuz again, you may not know that you're being exposed to mold at home. Um, how do you kind of balance that?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So that's the most trickiest piece because unfortunately we do not have a perfect test to actually, you know, like, first of all, know whether the mo toxins are present in a particular house. Old or not. So what people don't know is that, you know, sometimes definitely old exposures can still show up on the test.
More toxins can live in your body for like five years or even longer than that. So just based on the symptoms is very difficult or even based on the test, it is very difficult to know whether that's a current exposure or a past exposure. Now in the current exposure, It's very important that if you do have current exposure or more toxins, let's say in your house, if you're going to be exposed to it each and every day, then even though you're doing the more detox, you might not get the best results. So that way, again, having a higher index of suspicion and looking at it, you know, to see whether your house [Page//00:32:00] might have it or not. Now there are two ways of checking, you know, any particular house or a building for mold toxins. One is like getting a contractor who can do a visual inspection of looking at mold, you know, in different places and kind of, you know, or giving an idea to the people.
Obviously the downside to that is that, you know, it's user dependent that you know how good. Contractor you are getting, or you know, like what he feels about right. You know, they don't do much testing, so you cannot rely on that. And obviously they can be very expensive to get. The other option is that there are Army Test, E R M I ORME test, which are basically kind of surfer tests where you collect, you know, the dust and the air and you know, like, uh, some samples from your house and different rooms and you send it to this company where they analyze the sample and give you a score.
And that can be helpful. REM reminding whether you have high mold scores or. Again, it's not a perfect test. A lot of people have done the test and they have missed the mold because again, how you collect the sample and how they've run it can be a challenge, [Page//00:33:00] but definitely it's a cheaper option than getting a contractor into your house.
So if you are really concerned and you just want to get checked, then certainly that you can do that. But both of the options, you know, have their own issues. The bigger issue is that let's say you find mold in your house, what are you gonna do? Right? Again, getting a contractor and fixing it is expensive option.
Unfortunately, there is no easy way out of it.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And for those that are listening that think, well, I'm handy, I'll do it myself. Just know it's, it's kind of the same as in the body when you're. Doing any kind of construction or re remediation to remove mold, you are releasing more into the air and disrupting. Um, just like doing an improper detox protocol will release more into your body and, and make you feel worse.
Um, this is not something I ever recommend that people take on themselves because you need, you need proper training and areas really need to be sealed off. Um, and, and so it's a, it's a just a very tricky, [Page//00:34:00] expensive issue, and it's such a common issue. Um, the, the, I I say do your research and, and have at least, you know, if you find mold in your home and you know it's there and you, you need to get it remediated, hire somebody who is, is a mold specialist to do it.
If you can,
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yes. You know, mold is very, very hardy. Right. You know, it's very difficult to treat. So there was a research study done. They tried to see like, you know, Like what kind of chemicals actually can get, get rid of the mold completely. So to my heart, even bleach, even bleaching the surface, you know, like, uh, with mold, they could not a hundred percent remove the mold from that surface, even with bleach. So then I would say, okay, well if they cannot remove a breach, then suddenly I'm not equipped enough to deal with mold on my own. And as you said, I'm just making the exposure worse, right? Because it can be [Page//00:35:00] like, you know, hidden insulation walls or other places and you know, you are removing them so you do get exposed to it.
So definitely getting a contractor who is trained in doing these things is a way of forward, as you said. Um, that will be the best.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. Appreciate that. It's a, it is. It's so important for people to handle. Their, their, you know, exposure and, and reduce those, those, their toxic burden. Um, but we, we need to, this is where we really need the support. As you mentioned, you need that trained professional to support you through the detox. Um, it, it's, it's kind of that same idea.
It's not just like, let's get this stuff out, but we need to repair the damage that's been done and support the body so that you really can detox properly. And reducing your exposures across the board and, and all of the toxin areas is, is just essential. [Page//00:36:00] I know, you
Anshul Gupta, MD: people can certainly do a few.
Julie Michelson: oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yeah, I was just going to share that people certainly can do a few things, you know, like just to optimize if they are, if they cannot do anything at all, right? And they wanna do something just to improve their detox, there are a few things they can do, right?
Like improving their kidney function by drinking water, right? It's simple, you know? Just drink in a water in a day that will flush your kidneys out. Right? So that is a good way of detoxifying, doesn't hurt anybody, right? Body movement in terms of exercising or yoga or cardio strength training. Each and every body movement releases toxins out from your body, either by sweating or through your lymphatic channel.
Eating a healthy, high fiber diet, which is going to keep your bowel movements regular. And again, that is going to help your body to detoxify. So these are such simple things that you know, people can do. You know, obviously they're not going to completely eliminate mold from your body, but at least they will help you to [Page//00:37:00] lower the burden.
You know, like if you cannot do anything else, start doing with these things, this will be.
Julie Michelson: I, I so love that you brought that up and, and honestly, even if you are about to work with a professional to support, you know, if you're. Peeing pooping and moving. No professional's gonna start you on any kind of a protocol. Those are the, the foundational detox pathways that we really need to be hitting.
People ask me that all the time, you know, well, what about sauna? Or what about, and I'm like, you know, are, do you drink enough water? Let's start there. Uh, so I, I love, we always are looking for that like fancy fix and we were just talking about how expensive remediating can be, but, um, drinking, uh, you know, a significant amount of clean water and making sure that you're going to the bathroom regularly and moving, like you said.
And no matter for listeners, you know, moving, you know, we mentioned sweat, but. The, the lymph system as well. This, this lymphatic drainage is important. I have clients that, you [Page//00:38:00] know, if they're really, really sick, just gentle rebounding, like just wherever you are, just meet yourself where you are as far as movement and, and just notch it up a little bit,
Anshul Gupta, MD: I so agree with that. You know, like. Doesn't mean that, you know, people are just running marathons tomorrow or just going and rushing in the gym with doing those high intensity training By no means, you know, should not be doing it. Body movement, as you clearly mentioned, Julie is all about where you are currently with you.
You know, walking 10 steps is that's what you can do right now. That's great. You know, that's what your body's allowing you to do. That's okay. Like, you know, just try to improve or improvise on it slowly and slow. So wherever you are, just start doing that. If you're doing a workout that is going to completely draining you and making you feel awful, that is too much for your body.
Your body's already crying for help. So just be friends with your body. You don't have to be enemies with your body.
Julie Michelson: Love that. [Page//00:39:00] So that's, there's more gold right there and, and I'm giggling on the inside cuz I was about to ask you for that. One step listeners can take. And you just gave us four really important ones. Um, I don't know if you wanna sum them up, pick one. Those are all essential I think.
Anshul Gupta, MD: I think those are all essentials and easy things. You know, like I say, like start from the basics. I'm a person that, you know, basics can do a lot of things and. Basics are fixed. You know, like, you know, doing advanced protocols are not a good choice. So until my patients have done the basics, I don't move them forward.
So, as you mentioned, drinking water, eating a clean, healthy high, five. You know, like plant-based diet and some body movement, wherever you can, these are all basic things you can do today that will help you to lower not only the mold toxin burden, but any toxins you have, whether heavy metals or environmental toxins.
So, and it doesn't even matter that you need to feel awful before you do these things. Do [Page//00:40:00] these things right now so that you don't get to that point where you need my help or Julie's help or anybody.
Julie Michelson: I love that. Yeah. These are, it's not rocket science. These are things that, that we're designed to be doing on a daily basis. Um, and, and again, that whole, yes, we can tree root cause or we can use that same knowledge and prevent illness. So I love that you circled that right back around to where we started with this.
Dr. Gupta, where? Where can listener? Where's the best place for listeners to find you?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So I'm almost everywhere. So like you know, we have a website called un unsure gupta md.com. I have a very active blog. I write research based articles over there. So if you are avid reader, that will be a good place for you to find us. I'm on YouTube now. Again, my handle is unsure, Gupta MD and again, sharing short videos over there [Page//00:41:00] so you can follow along.
And again, these tips that we discussed over here, so that way if you are a visual person, you know, you can find us over there Also, um, if you wanna know your root cause, you know, I actually made this root cause analysis quiz, which is present on my website, which is mainly focused on Hashimoto's. And with just few questions that you can answer, it is going to give you a score that is going to potentially lead you into that, all these different categories of root causes so that maybe you can start working on those.
So all of those places we, people can find us. We even offer online consultations. So people who are interested in working one, one to one with me, they can now work with me from anywhere in the country, um, through online consultations. Again, go on our website and all the information is over.
Julie Michelson: Dr. Gupta. Thank you so much. You have shared amazing, amazing information with us today.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Thank you so much. It's my pleasure coming over [Page//00:42:00] here and I really, really appreciate the work you are doing. You know, the podcast you have, getting all these speakers, sharing all their knowledge that you have, I'm sure it is changing so many lives already. So being, it's my honor to be here.
Julie Michelson: Thank you and so excited that you're now working virtually, you know, literally anybody can work with you now, which is is amazing. So for everyone listening you remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by Visiting Inspired Living Show. We will have all those links where you can find Dr. Gupta, where you can take that quiz, all the things.
I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
Dr. Gupta is a best-selling author, speaker, researcher, and world expert in Hashimoto's Disease. He educates people worldwide on reversing Hashimoto's. If you missed our previous conversation, [Page//00:01:00] I encourage you to check out episode nine.
In today's conversation, we're discussing the common root causes for Hashimotos and all autoimmune conditions. Dr. Gupta shares his ex expertise and gives us action steps that we can take immediately to start improving our health.
Dr. Gupta, welcome to the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Thank you so much, Julie. Uh, it's a pleasure being over here. Last time we had a lot of fun, you know, sharing a lot of information about Hashimotos and definitely honored to be back over here to talk about more than other things.
Julie Michelson: I'm so excited to continue this conversation, and dig in even a little bit deeper. I know you already shared your story with us, but I, I'd love for you to share a little bit with listeners because I, it's always so fascinating, I think, for people to hear that doctors get sick too.
I know what drew you into the world of, of functional medicine?
Anshul Gupta, MD: [Page//00:02:00] Absolutely. Yes. You know, you correctly said, you know, unless you know, uh, we as physicians or any practitioners go through our own health struggles, nobody kind of join this bag of functional medicine. Right. Because conventionally we are kind of so much hardwired that, okay, well conventional medicine is the only way of moving forward.
It is scientific research base. We don't know that there is the whole world out there. Whole world of. Research out there, which supports functional medicine or integrative medicine. So I was, again, a hardwired, conventional medicine doctor, a family physician, seeing a lot of patients on a daily basis.
Couple of years into my practice, my health started struggling and I started gaining weight. You know, or even though did not change anything with my diet or with my lifestyle. I was having this horrible, horrible stomach. The pain will hit me randomly. You know, like doesn't matter what I eat. Sometimes some food will react.
The other times the other food will be bad for me, I had no idea what was causing the stomach pain. I was [Page//00:03:00] feeling so much tired that during the day I had to take a nap or just feel like very drowsy, just to kind of complete the whole day. And if I struggle through the whole day, at the end of the day, I felt so brain foggy.
Like, you know, I was not able to concentrate on things, you know, like just not able to pay attention to each and everyth. Uh, so, so many things were going on and I had no idea what was causing it. I was very young, 32 years of age, right at the time. But I thought, oh, I'm a smart doctor. Let me fix this. You know, like my stomach problem, that might be helpful for me, right?
Started taking medications. One medications, two medications, three medications. Nothing changed, you know, I took them for a couple of months, nothing was changing, so I thought, well, maybe I'm not a smart doctor. Let me go to these specialists. Maybe they're smarter than me. So then I approached specialists after specialist, went to the GS specialist, did endoscopies, colonoscopies, ultrasounds, blood work, nothing was there.
He added more medications even though he did not find anything. He said, well, [Page//00:04:00] let's add more medications to see. That would be helpful. Nothing changed. So an allergy specialist, you know, saw other bunch of specialists and did tons of testing. And literally nothing showed up over there. And no, nobody had any idea what was going on.
They all had this statement that maybe it's in your mind, maybe you're just too stressed out. And I were like, well, I have been stressed out seeing patients, but you know, I have been doing this for a while, so I don't think that's an issue. But I was 32 years of age, no way moving forward. I was taking more than five medications.
Nothing was getting better. So that's the time I found functional medicine. Well, okay, like functional medicine has stories about these, you know, like crazy patients, you know, like who were refuted by their doctors that just being in their head and suddenly they got better. So I got trained in myself into functional medicine.
You know, I kind of found the root cause of my issues and then made a step-wise plan to address them. Simple plan, some lifestyle changes, some basic supple. [Page//00:05:00] And then boom, the results were awesome. Within one month, my complete pain was gone. Within six, six months. Yeah, within six months, I was able to get off all the medications.
I lost 40 pounds. You know, my brain fog was gone. I had so much energy in my life that I even competed for a 5K rugged maniac,
Julie Michelson: Wow.
Anshul Gupta, MD: I was never an athletic person. So for me to do that was a big.
Julie Michelson: Wow. Amazing. And, and your, your story and that's why I wanted you to share it again. It is it, Unfortunately still so common. That's the path for people, you know, specialists after specialist medication, after medication test, after test, and then out of, you know, sheer desperation. They somehow, hopefully find functional medicine or integrative medicine and get real answers to root cause.
And, and so what I love about your story is how quickly. Just by [Page//00:06:00] addressing your route drivers, you were able to, you know, at first get rid of the pain and then get off the medications and, and like you said, lose weight, be energetic. Um, and this is why we do what we do and why we have the conversation so that people know that there is, there is a way to get help.
Um, and I was curious as you were sharing your story, If anybody was gonna say, suggest, perhaps it was in your head because I, I find it so common, especially with women as patients, that they're, they're told, you know, of course you're tired, you have kids or, you know, which is very different than fatigue, as we all know.
Um, so interesting that, that you heard that same story that, that most of us have.
Anshul Gupta, MD: And exactly. That was the reason I became specialist to Hashimotos. You know, because when I started working at the Cleveland Clinic Functional Medicine Department with Dr. Mark Hyman, so I was seeing all these females, you know, who were coming to see me with very [Page//00:07:00] similar symptoms and spine. They were all struggling with weight issues.
They all had gut problems. They were all tired. They had like, you know, brain fog symptoms, gut problems. And the, the biggest thing was that they were going to these doctors who were giving them medicines. They were trying to do whatever the doctors were telling, still not getting better, and they were giving different labels.
Oh, you just became a mom. Oh, you are a busy professional. Oh, you're taking care of your. Old parents, oh, you are taking care of like, you know, your work and your house. And so they were being told again, time and again that it's your fault. It's basically in your head or you are causing all of these symptoms.
There is nothing real about your symptoms. So I felt so bad about these Hashimotos patients that are decided. I need to dig deeper, figure out what is wrong with them, why they are feeling the way and made a path forward for them. So that's where I made this. Call to kind of dig into the root cause of the problems of [Page//00:08:00] Hashimotos and then apply the protocol into my patients and saw, again, phenomenal results.
Everybody got better, not only with their symptoms, but with their antibody numbers, thyroid numbers, so it's so, so fascinating to see, as you said, in a short amount of time, you can actually reverse or improve a disease, which people have been told that they will have to live for the rest of their.
Julie Michelson: Abso. Amen. Absolutely. Let's, let's start at the beginning and, and for those, you know, that, that a, the few listening that, that don't have Hashimotos or some kind of autoimmune thyroid condition, um, what is, what is Hashimotos exactly?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So Hashimotos is the most common autoimmune disease world over, you know, uh, we have several autoimmune conditions, several autoimmune diseases which are happening, and Hashimotos being the most common one. We have, obviously, [Page//00:09:00] rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, s l e ms, that comes after that. Uh, Hashimotos is an autoimmune condition of the thyroid gland.
The interesting piece of it is that each and every autoimmune condition, the pathology is exactly the. It's basically an interplay between your genetic makeup and the environment triggers around you. And when those environment triggers, you know, like, you know, mix along with your genetic makeup leads to antibody productions in your body.
And these antibodies, depending on the weak points of your body, start destroying different areas. So in Hashimotos, they destroy the thyroid gland. In rheumatoid arthritis, they destroy the joints in ms. They destroy the brain in the nerve. On and on and on. But the pathology is the same. So in Hashimotos, again, what people don't know is that there are antibodies which are leading to the destruction of the thyroid gland, and eventually they reach a point where the thyroid is not able to produce enough thyroid hormone.
And [Page//00:10:00] that's where the conventional medicine wants to put all these Hashimotos patients with thyroid medicine. But in reality, people don't know that these thyroid medicines are not doing anything at all to address the underlying problem of inflammation or autoimmunity. That destruction of the thyroid gland keeps on happening each and every day.
Julie Michelson: It's so frustrating for me. I am one of those people that for years, you know, I think I have a thyroid condition. This was well into my rheumatoid arthritis journey, and if, if we would test antibodies, I mean, we, to do, you do. But if, if these markers would be included in, you know, lab work that your primary care doctor was running, instead of having to beg and demand, you know, educate yourself and then ask for the tests.
We, I mean, the amount of people you could prevent from ever even having expressed thyroid, you know, issues. [Page//00:11:00] It would be remarkable cuz as you mentioned, you know, Hashimoto's is the most prevalent autoimmune condition. Um, for me, I was told this is how backwards my rheumatologist had it, I was told that when they finally were like, oh yeah, you, you know, when my ta when I was finally symptomatic enough, my t s H was now, you know, showing something cuz that's all they were looking at.
She said, and of course then they put me on the wrong medications and still weren't addressing root cause. But she said at the time, well, uh, yeah, because of your ra it just has worn down. Your thyroid still not looking for autoimmune thyroid at all. And, and this is a rheumatologist, this is what she treats is autoimmunity.
You know, so it's just fascinating and we just have it so backwards. You know, the, when we understand. What we're doing in this world of functional medicine and root cause. You can also take it [Page//00:12:00] as prevention. It's the same, you know, we, we can just avoid ever getting there. Um, and, and so thank you for simplifying and, but really explaining, you know, kind of how that happens.
Um, I'd love to touch on triggers, and specifically today, you already know the one that I, I really wanna dig into because I feel like it, it's just, it's such a common driver of all autoimmunity, not just, you know, Hashimoto's and, and thyroid conditions. Um, but what are, what are the, these common environmental triggers that you see?
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yeah, so the most common environment triggers have divided them into five major categories. The first categories of food sensories food is medicine, but the wrong foods can also lead to triggering our disease. So foods like gluten, dairy, soy, corn, processed meats, processed fugo foods. Sugars. [Page//00:13:00] All of these foods, you know, are not good for our body, and we know time and again that they have been linked to triggering autoimmune conditions.
Hashimotos, rheumatoid arthritis, whatever it is, right? So that's the first trigger. The second is nutritional deficient. Our body needs nutrition specific vitamins and minerals to function properly. And now we know that our food currently is low in vitamins and minerals as compared to 20 years ago there was a recess study done, which compared to the nutrition analysis of the food, which we have currently from 1980s, and clearly it shows that we are deficient into specific minerals which are needed by the thy.
Like selenium, like magnesium, like, you know, uh, B vitamins. All of those things are lower as compared to before. So even though we think we are eating the healthiest diet, but if our food itself is deficient into vitamins and minerals, then we are not getting them enough. The third thing is stress. So are, we are going [Page//00:14:00] through a lot of stressful situations, you know, whether it is a pandemic stress or whether it is a work stress or personal stress, just the world has become more stressful.
These. We are always in that go, go, go mode, which basically puts too much pressure on our body. And again, that leads to triggering of Hashimotos, especially in females. You know, like unfortunately they go through these hormonal cascade of changes, whether it is pregnancy, you know, post delivery or menopause, all of these things.
Hormonal changes definitely leads to figuring of Hashimotos. We know. Then fourth is the infections. You know, there are certain infections which have been associated viral infections like Epstein bar virus or infections. Monolo is what it is called about, has been associated with several studies. You know, with Hashimotos, there are certain parasites in the gut, like blastocystis, which has been associated with, again, Hashimotos, and then candida infections or Lyme [Page//00:15:00] infections.
Those are again, chronic infections. Can, again, trigger Hashimoto disease. And the last category is the toxin. The toxins are majorly divided to three categories. One is heavy metals that we have known that they definitely cause a lot of destruction to our body, like mercury, like lead, arsenic, you know, they are definitely toxic to our body.
Then we have environmental toxins each and every day we are producing more and more chemicals. And these chemicals, what they are doing, they're doing, they lead destruction of our body, whether it is the pesticides or the organic phosphate, you know that we are spraying our food. Or that, that is like chemicals that we are putting into our like cleaning supplies or like, you know, household things, right?
Or even skin product, right? All of those things are toxic. And the last one is the mole toxins, right? Those are the mole toxins. So we knew about mold toxins for a long time, but interestingly we knew about mold toxins as a potential problem in animals, especially in live. [Page//00:16:00] Because you know, like the livestock, you know, they were exposed to mold toxins mainly through food, like, you know, the grains and things which were not stored properly.
They will grow mold and then that moldy food when they will consume, they will have mold toxins and they'll have a host of health issues. And nobody actually, I was very surprised and nobody actually put two and two together, that if animals are getting more toxins, humans can get it.
Julie Michelson: And we're eating those animals and some people are consuming those animals milk. So it would make sense that, that,
Anshul Gupta, MD: right.
Julie Michelson: um, and, and that is,
Anshul Gupta, MD: smart doctors.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And that's such a common exposure. You know, people tend to think mold and they only think moldy building. Um, and, and they really are thinking mildew, right? Not necessarily the mold and mycotoxins that, that can really trigger what we're talking about.
Um, so do you see this as, as. I, I, I know they're all [Page//00:17:00] so common and prevalent and, and um, then I used to say, when I was first figuring out how to get well, you know, I was looking for my root cause like in the singular, and then I realized there's no such thing. It's always more than one thing. And there could be a main driver, you know, that thing that tips us over the edge.
Um, but do you see mold and mycotoxin? You know, as a, as a contributor, more and more common. And then is it because we're testing for it more or is it just more prevalent?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So definitely it is very common. You know, like almost each and every of my client, I would say every second client of mine do have some kind of toxins and very frequently it's a more toxins. So yes, you know, you are correct that, you know, we don't know the exact, uh, like statistics because previously there was no test to check for more toxins.
And obviously now we have this. So that's the reason we are testing more. So we are being more aware of. [Page//00:18:00] But I think it's a total toxin burden. That's what it's causing the problem, because we just have one detox system in our body and that can only handle so many toxins. And I think so that's where the heavy metals are there.
The environmental toxins are increasing, but the mold toxins, they're so toxic that even at small levels, they can completely hijack the immune system and turn your body against your own body. And that's the worst part about it. I think the other toxins slow. Slowly build up and then start a very slow destruction while mold, toxins can eat up, you know, like inflammatory response in your body.
And then suddenly, like, you know, we see a big surge, you know, of uh, inflammatory chemicals which are produced in the body and that leads to in autoimmune conditions. So I think definitely mold is a bigger, biggest trigger. Of majority of the autoimmune patients. As you said, there are def other contributors too, so just working on mold is not going to fix the problem.
But definitely that's the biggest [Page//00:19:00] piece that will make the huge shift for most of my clients.
Julie Michelson: And I, I so love and I, I wanna lead into giving a little more information about testing, but I love that you highlighted. You know, we're, we're so used to this model of, you know, through Western medicine of like, here are your lab results, and if you're in this range, you're fine. And, and especially with mold and mycotoxins, somebody doesn't need to be off the charts if they have autoimmunity and they're showing exposure.
You know, the, the, there's no exact, you know, you what your body can tolerate and what my body can tolerate may not be the same thing. And again, we've got all these other factors are we accounting for. Um, and, and so I think that's so important to highlight that somebody doesn't need to have a really scary looking re mo results on their mycotoxin panel for that to really be a major player in their autoimmunity.[Page//00:20:00]
Anshul Gupta, MD: Absolutely. Look, most people will say, well, I don't think. Exposed to mold, you know, because what people having in mind is that their walls should be covered with black mold or like, you know, they will have this black mold everywhere in, around their sink or anything. No, actually the, the mold we are talking about doesn't even have to be black mold.
It can be just simple white mold. It, it is gently hidden. In your insulation walls or behind the walls a lot of times, or in your floors. So you might not even know about it. It might not even be in your house. It might be at the workplace, or it might be an Ar b Airbnb or a hotel or a place that you visited and you got exposed to it.
Right? So, you know, they're different exposure sometimes, you know, like, you know, food as we said, can be an exposure too, especially coffee. You know, there's certain coffee beans, you know, can have mold in them, right? Nothing against coffee. I love coffee myself.
Julie Michelson: There's a little plug for purity coffee. Everybody. Make sure you're, if you're, if you're a coffee, if you're a coffee lover, which I am, you know, you, you can [Page//00:21:00] get beans that have been tested and are as clean as, as we can source, you know, in this country. Um, so, so how do you, because so many people don't know that they've been exposed, and I love that.
You know, again, you went back to the, it's not necessarily you're living in this dam. You know, environment covered in black mold. What do you, I, I'm guessing you, you're a, a fan of testing. What, what kind of testing should people be looking for?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So absolutely before the testing, you know, like obviously, because testing as you know, is expensive. Not everybody kind of, you know, can afford it and not each and every person should get the testing. So there are certain. Symptoms that can kind of tell people that whether they might be exposed to mold or not.
So people who have become very, very sensitive to things like, you know, they're reacting to random foods or random smells or random things, they're breaking down to hives or their skin rashes that, you know, like that is happening to them, um, that is [Page//00:22:00] causing. Problems if they're runny nose, if they have itchy eyes or burning eyes.
Those are, are they in symptoms? If their mood is changing very quickly, like sometime they're feeling anxious, the other time they're feeling depressed. So that mood swings, which is happening if they're feeling brain foggy, you know, like, especially like if they are not able to concentrate, they feel that the memory is not as good as it was before.
Uh, all of these symptoms, inflammation in the body. That is another big thing. Like people come to me saying that I have inflammation in the body. I feel my joints are swollen, or my body's swollen, or I feel pain general in my body. So these are all symptoms or signs that you might be going through the mold toxicity.
So if you have any of those things, then definitely there is a high suspicion that you could be checking for mold toxins. Now, how do you check for more toxins? Unfortunately, the regular labs do not have any tests to check for more toxins, so there are only a couple of labs which will actually check for more toxins.
The other piece, what [Page//00:23:00] people don't understand is that as soon as we talk about mold testing, they will go to their allergy doctor and get an allergy test for the mold, and they say, well, I don't have more toxins because he tested me for it. Well, mold allergy is different, completely different thing from mold toxin.
Mold allergies. Just saying that if you do get exposed to mold spores, whether your body is going to react, you know, in an allergic fashion. While what we are talking about is mycotoxins, is that those mold spores have already entered your body, you got exposed to it, and then this start this production of toxins in your body, which we call as Microtoxin.
And we want to know the levels of those microtoxins in your body, because those microtoxins are the one which are driving this whole autoimmune process. So a couple of labs are there, like Great Plains Lab, you know, in real time labs. They have been there for several years now. It's a urine test. They basically check [Page//00:24:00] and remember they're at least seven to eight microtoxins. They check four and tell you the levels of those microtoxins in your body. Because we just don't want to know whether they're present or not. We also want to know their levels so that, you know, once you start working on them, you can see those levels coming down.
So that's the way we do the testing. You know, through this, you know, these specialized labs.
Julie Michelson: And I love that you'd, you know, let people know the, the urine test is, is the, you know, the way to go for sure. Um, you mentioned fo kind of following, how, how o you know long do you wait once somebody is. Doing it their whatever detox protocol you have them on to retest, to make sure things are moving in the right direction.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Four to six months. You know, like more toxins are very difficult to get out, you know, like from a person's body. So I think before four months it doesn't make any sense. So four to six months is average amount of time that we retest our clients.
Julie Michelson: And, and when we're talking about, especially [Page//00:25:00] people with autoimmunity and Hashimotos, you know how. How can they, and I think the key to detox is, is safe, right? How can they safely detox from old toxicity?
Anshul Gupta, MD: Absolutely. So before, kind of, you know, like talking about the. Aspect, and that's what you know, I want to also let people know, is that they don't that just mold toxins are just not about the toxins, it's about the damage they're doing to your body. So we not only have to detoxify or remove the mold toxins, we also have to work on the damage which has been done, uh, so that you know, like you feel better.
So the mold toxins actually cause damage in various different mechanisms or. So first of all, the mold toxins cause something serves, which is C I R S, which is chronic inflammatory response syndrome. What has been seen in these microtoxins can directly hijack [Page//00:26:00] your immune system, and by hijacking your immune system, they actually turn them on, you know, continuously they're turned on.
So they're producing these inflammatory markers all the time in your. These inflammatory markers are the ones which are triggering those antibodies and, and triggering the destruction of your own body. So very, very important to know, like, you know, this destruction through mold toxins is by causing this inflammatory response.
And second of all, the mold toxins actually also affect your gut causing leaky gut issues. You know, like, and we know that the leaky gut is basically the way the process of starting the autoimmune process. So the mold toxins directly goes to your gut and then directly causes leaky gut problems. And the research kind of shows that the mold toxins can do that.
And the third way is they also is that they are actually directly attacking the cells also. So not only they're kind of causing an indirect damage by cause of increasing inflammation, but they can cause something called cellular apoptosis. [Page//00:27:00] So apoptosis in like, you know, medical terminology is basically cell death.
And you know, because we need old cells to die and the new cells to form. But what mold does is that it also causes the death of the newer cells also. So our body is lacking, you know, like the appropriate cells, especially in thyroid, if they don't have cells, they do not produce enough thyroid hormone, right?
So these are all the mechanisms through which the mold toxins are destroying the, you know, whether it's thyroid, whether it is the joints or anything else. We not only had to remove the mold toxins, we have to fix the damage which was done so people can feel. Now the most common, like, you know, mistakes that people do is that, okay, well let me just go on a detox protocol Now, detox protocol is not so easy, right?
You know, there has to be an understanding of what we are doing because there are different phases of the detox, phase one, phase two, and phase three. And what most people do is that, oh, let me just take a binder, or let me [Page//00:28:00] just take this, you know, kind of supplement like glutathione or something, which is going to help get removed my mold toxins.
Well, what it does is that these mold toxins are hiding in your system. Whether it is your fatty tissues, whether it's your thyroid, or whether it other, you know, in your bone areas, right? Once you start taking these detox supplements like glutathione, they start coming out in your blood and start circulating in your blood.
And if you do not take the next step of removing these toxins from your blood to the outside of your body, then they start actually doing a lot of damage. That's the, that's the reason people will see a lot of die of reactions and they'll feel horrible symptoms of feeling tired, diarrhea, you know, being on the bed, you know, uh, throwing up episodes and they'll say, oh, well, you know, these are just normal die of reactions and this will get better.
You know, like, but it gets to get worse first. And, uh, I tell them, no, that's not true. It doesn't have to get worse. This is where people land up in the hospital or emergency room. By doing [Page//00:29:00] these improper detoxes, we have seen so many cases of people damaging their liver just by trying to do this detox protocol.
You know, like, which they kind of bought on internet or just thought, you know, that'll be useful. So I tell people that detox, detox is something that is the only thing that you should not be trying on your own. Uh, you have to work with a qualified professional who knows what they're doing.
Julie Michelson: Could say that again, please. It's, it's just scary to me, you know, because I was saying before we hit record, I just had somebody ask me, well, just tell me how to detox. And I'm like, this is already someone who's too sick to work right now, and I'm no. Um, I, I quote often the doctor I work with here locally, and he always says, detox should be slow and boring.
Like, you should not notice there's no push through. Um, and, and that's, uh, so important and what you highlighted for people, you know, the body is clever. Even, [Page//00:30:00] even though the toxins are still doing damage, it's, it's. Kind of tucks these toxins away, even if it's places like thyroid that we don't, you know, bones that we, we don't want the, the, the toxins in our body at all, but people don't realize how much sicker they can make themselves by reci, recirculating and recirculating.
So thank you for really. Educating us on that. If, if you, listeners, if you take one thing away from this, it is do not go look up a detox protocol online and, and get started. Um, and what are, what about, you know, if, say somebody does do testing and they, they have, you know, clear mycotoxin issues contributing to their autoimmunity.
How important is it for them to find out, you know, whether their mold exposure is current or past? You know, can somebody, cuz that's expensive too, right? I, I have people push back, [Page//00:31:00] um, with testing cuz again, you may not know that you're being exposed to mold at home. Um, how do you kind of balance that?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So that's the most trickiest piece because unfortunately we do not have a perfect test to actually, you know, like, first of all, know whether the mo toxins are present in a particular house. Old or not. So what people don't know is that, you know, sometimes definitely old exposures can still show up on the test.
More toxins can live in your body for like five years or even longer than that. So just based on the symptoms is very difficult or even based on the test, it is very difficult to know whether that's a current exposure or a past exposure. Now in the current exposure, It's very important that if you do have current exposure or more toxins, let's say in your house, if you're going to be exposed to it each and every day, then even though you're doing the more detox, you might not get the best results. So that way, again, having a higher index of suspicion and looking at it, you know, to see whether your house [Page//00:32:00] might have it or not. Now there are two ways of checking, you know, any particular house or a building for mold toxins. One is like getting a contractor who can do a visual inspection of looking at mold, you know, in different places and kind of, you know, or giving an idea to the people.
Obviously the downside to that is that, you know, it's user dependent that you know how good. Contractor you are getting, or you know, like what he feels about right. You know, they don't do much testing, so you cannot rely on that. And obviously they can be very expensive to get. The other option is that there are Army Test, E R M I ORME test, which are basically kind of surfer tests where you collect, you know, the dust and the air and you know, like, uh, some samples from your house and different rooms and you send it to this company where they analyze the sample and give you a score.
And that can be helpful. REM reminding whether you have high mold scores or. Again, it's not a perfect test. A lot of people have done the test and they have missed the mold because again, how you collect the sample and how they've run it can be a challenge, [Page//00:33:00] but definitely it's a cheaper option than getting a contractor into your house.
So if you are really concerned and you just want to get checked, then certainly that you can do that. But both of the options, you know, have their own issues. The bigger issue is that let's say you find mold in your house, what are you gonna do? Right? Again, getting a contractor and fixing it is expensive option.
Unfortunately, there is no easy way out of it.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. And for those that are listening that think, well, I'm handy, I'll do it myself. Just know it's, it's kind of the same as in the body when you're. Doing any kind of construction or re remediation to remove mold, you are releasing more into the air and disrupting. Um, just like doing an improper detox protocol will release more into your body and, and make you feel worse.
Um, this is not something I ever recommend that people take on themselves because you need, you need proper training and areas really need to be sealed off. Um, and, and so it's a, it's a just a very tricky, [Page//00:34:00] expensive issue, and it's such a common issue. Um, the, the, I I say do your research and, and have at least, you know, if you find mold in your home and you know it's there and you, you need to get it remediated, hire somebody who is, is a mold specialist to do it.
If you can,
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yes. You know, mold is very, very hardy. Right. You know, it's very difficult to treat. So there was a research study done. They tried to see like, you know, Like what kind of chemicals actually can get, get rid of the mold completely. So to my heart, even bleach, even bleaching the surface, you know, like, uh, with mold, they could not a hundred percent remove the mold from that surface, even with bleach. So then I would say, okay, well if they cannot remove a breach, then suddenly I'm not equipped enough to deal with mold on my own. And as you said, I'm just making the exposure worse, right? Because it can be [Page//00:35:00] like, you know, hidden insulation walls or other places and you know, you are removing them so you do get exposed to it.
So definitely getting a contractor who is trained in doing these things is a way of forward, as you said. Um, that will be the best.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. Appreciate that. It's a, it is. It's so important for people to handle. Their, their, you know, exposure and, and reduce those, those, their toxic burden. Um, but we, we need to, this is where we really need the support. As you mentioned, you need that trained professional to support you through the detox. Um, it, it's, it's kind of that same idea.
It's not just like, let's get this stuff out, but we need to repair the damage that's been done and support the body so that you really can detox properly. And reducing your exposures across the board and, and all of the toxin areas is, is just essential. [Page//00:36:00] I know, you
Anshul Gupta, MD: people can certainly do a few.
Julie Michelson: oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Yeah, I was just going to share that people certainly can do a few things, you know, like just to optimize if they are, if they cannot do anything at all, right? And they wanna do something just to improve their detox, there are a few things they can do, right?
Like improving their kidney function by drinking water, right? It's simple, you know? Just drink in a water in a day that will flush your kidneys out. Right? So that is a good way of detoxifying, doesn't hurt anybody, right? Body movement in terms of exercising or yoga or cardio strength training. Each and every body movement releases toxins out from your body, either by sweating or through your lymphatic channel.
Eating a healthy, high fiber diet, which is going to keep your bowel movements regular. And again, that is going to help your body to detoxify. So these are such simple things that you know, people can do. You know, obviously they're not going to completely eliminate mold from your body, but at least they will help you to [Page//00:37:00] lower the burden.
You know, like if you cannot do anything else, start doing with these things, this will be.
Julie Michelson: I, I so love that you brought that up and, and honestly, even if you are about to work with a professional to support, you know, if you're. Peeing pooping and moving. No professional's gonna start you on any kind of a protocol. Those are the, the foundational detox pathways that we really need to be hitting.
People ask me that all the time, you know, well, what about sauna? Or what about, and I'm like, you know, are, do you drink enough water? Let's start there. Uh, so I, I love, we always are looking for that like fancy fix and we were just talking about how expensive remediating can be, but, um, drinking, uh, you know, a significant amount of clean water and making sure that you're going to the bathroom regularly and moving, like you said.
And no matter for listeners, you know, moving, you know, we mentioned sweat, but. The, the lymph system as well. This, this lymphatic drainage is important. I have clients that, you [Page//00:38:00] know, if they're really, really sick, just gentle rebounding, like just wherever you are, just meet yourself where you are as far as movement and, and just notch it up a little bit,
Anshul Gupta, MD: I so agree with that. You know, like. Doesn't mean that, you know, people are just running marathons tomorrow or just going and rushing in the gym with doing those high intensity training By no means, you know, should not be doing it. Body movement, as you clearly mentioned, Julie is all about where you are currently with you.
You know, walking 10 steps is that's what you can do right now. That's great. You know, that's what your body's allowing you to do. That's okay. Like, you know, just try to improve or improvise on it slowly and slow. So wherever you are, just start doing that. If you're doing a workout that is going to completely draining you and making you feel awful, that is too much for your body.
Your body's already crying for help. So just be friends with your body. You don't have to be enemies with your body.
Julie Michelson: Love that. [Page//00:39:00] So that's, there's more gold right there and, and I'm giggling on the inside cuz I was about to ask you for that. One step listeners can take. And you just gave us four really important ones. Um, I don't know if you wanna sum them up, pick one. Those are all essential I think.
Anshul Gupta, MD: I think those are all essentials and easy things. You know, like I say, like start from the basics. I'm a person that, you know, basics can do a lot of things and. Basics are fixed. You know, like, you know, doing advanced protocols are not a good choice. So until my patients have done the basics, I don't move them forward.
So, as you mentioned, drinking water, eating a clean, healthy high, five. You know, like plant-based diet and some body movement, wherever you can, these are all basic things you can do today that will help you to lower not only the mold toxin burden, but any toxins you have, whether heavy metals or environmental toxins.
So, and it doesn't even matter that you need to feel awful before you do these things. Do [Page//00:40:00] these things right now so that you don't get to that point where you need my help or Julie's help or anybody.
Julie Michelson: I love that. Yeah. These are, it's not rocket science. These are things that, that we're designed to be doing on a daily basis. Um, and, and again, that whole, yes, we can tree root cause or we can use that same knowledge and prevent illness. So I love that you circled that right back around to where we started with this.
Dr. Gupta, where? Where can listener? Where's the best place for listeners to find you?
Anshul Gupta, MD: So I'm almost everywhere. So like you know, we have a website called un unsure gupta md.com. I have a very active blog. I write research based articles over there. So if you are avid reader, that will be a good place for you to find us. I'm on YouTube now. Again, my handle is unsure, Gupta MD and again, sharing short videos over there [Page//00:41:00] so you can follow along.
And again, these tips that we discussed over here, so that way if you are a visual person, you know, you can find us over there Also, um, if you wanna know your root cause, you know, I actually made this root cause analysis quiz, which is present on my website, which is mainly focused on Hashimoto's. And with just few questions that you can answer, it is going to give you a score that is going to potentially lead you into that, all these different categories of root causes so that maybe you can start working on those.
So all of those places we, people can find us. We even offer online consultations. So people who are interested in working one, one to one with me, they can now work with me from anywhere in the country, um, through online consultations. Again, go on our website and all the information is over.
Julie Michelson: Dr. Gupta. Thank you so much. You have shared amazing, amazing information with us today.
Anshul Gupta, MD: Thank you so much. It's my pleasure coming over [Page//00:42:00] here and I really, really appreciate the work you are doing. You know, the podcast you have, getting all these speakers, sharing all their knowledge that you have, I'm sure it is changing so many lives already. So being, it's my honor to be here.
Julie Michelson: Thank you and so excited that you're now working virtually, you know, literally anybody can work with you now, which is is amazing. So for everyone listening you remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by Visiting Inspired Living Show. We will have all those links where you can find Dr. Gupta, where you can take that quiz, all the things.
I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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Anshul Gupta
Functional & Integrative Medicine
Dr. Anshul Gupta is a speaker, author, researcher and world expert in Hashimoto's disease. He educates people worldwide on reversing Hashimoto's condition.
He is a Board-Certified Family Medicine Physician, with advanced certification in Functional Medicine, Peptide therapy, and also Fellowship trained in Integrative Medicine. He has worked at the prestigious Cleveland Clinic Department of Functional Medicine alongside Dr. Mark Hyman. He has helped thousands of patients to reverse their health issues by using the concepts of functional medicine. He is now on a mission to help 1 million people reverse their health conditions. To achieve this mission he has started a virtual functional medicine practice, a blog, video series so he can reach people from all the world.
Through his innovative approach towards Hashimoto's disease, he has helped several patients to reverse their unresolved symptoms and live their life to the fullest.
He is a Board-Certified Family Medicine Physician, with advanced certification in Functional Medicine, Peptide therapy, and also Fellowship trained in Integrative Medicine. He has worked at the prestigious Cleveland Clinic Department of Functional Medicine alongside Dr. Mark Hyman. He has helped thousands of patients to reverse their health issues by using the concepts of functional medicine. He is now on a mission to help 1 million people reverse their health conditions. To achieve this mission he has started a virtual functional medicine practice, a blog, video series so he can reach people from all the world.
Through his innovative approach towards Hashimoto's disease, he has helped several patients to reverse their unresolved symptoms and live their life to the fullest.
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