Episode 7
Table of Contents:
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In this episode:
Today we are joined by Angie Alt, an AIP Pioneer. Angie explains exactly with AIP (Autoimmune Protocol) is and what it isn’t. We discuss why it is a lifestyle and not just a diet. Angie shares with us her focus on creating a shift from a self-care to a community care approach. We explore the scientific studies that have been published, and are in the works, showing just how effective AIP can be in healing autoimmunity. Angie gives us lots of gold..
Other Resources:
Other Resources:
Connect with Angie Alt
Connect with Angie Alt
Watch this interview:
Watch this interview:
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with auto-immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today I am thrilled to be talking with AIP, pioneer, Angie alt.
[00:00:46] Angie runs online group coaching programs that help people transition their lifestyle to the auto immune product. She's an award-winning author.
[00:00:55] And she also partners with doctors to conduct medical research [00:01:00] that scientifically shows the efficacy of AIP. Along with Mickey Trescott. Angie runs, auto-immune wellness.com, an amazing website serving the auto-immune community. She's a co-creator and co-teacher of AIP certified coach, which is an advanced training for wellness professional.
[00:01:20] Angie, welcome to the podcast. Your work has made such a tremendous contribution to the auto immune community. Can you tell listeners how this became your life past?
[00:01:33] Angie Alt: First of all, thank you for having me on. And yeah, it's not like I saw the, you know, career counselor in high school and they said like, this is the path for you.
[00:01:43] It was very kind of accidental process. I got very ill with auto-immune disease. A little over a decade ago now. And. In that process of kind of looking for my answers and, and trying to heal as probably [00:02:00] most folks in your audience know that's not super easy with auto immune disease.
[00:02:03] I kind of found the, the diet and lifestyle path and found the early beginnings of the autoimmune protocol when you know, like Sarah Ballantine. First putting her blog together and starting to share the protocol as we kind of know it now today. And I said, oh boy, I have autoimmune disease.
[00:02:21] I have three autoimmune diseases. By that point, I had been diagnosed with three and one of them was celiac disease. So I was already adjusting my diet to be a gluten-free diet. And I saw the autoimmune protocol and I said, oh, that's, that's probably me. I probably have to try this if I really want to feel better.
[00:02:38] And I jumped right in and I already had a blog at that time. I blogged about my family's life overseas. My husband works in international development and humanitarian aid. So we lived in west Africa and I blogged about our life there and I was getting sicker and sicker while we were there.
[00:02:54] And so the blog was kind of morphing to be about this journey. And so I just [00:03:00] started, I said, okay, I've already got this blog. I'm starting this new dietary path. I'm going to. You know, tell people how this is working for me or if it's not working. But it worked in a really big way. Within six weeks of starting the autoimmune protocol, my gluten antibodies dropped by half.
[00:03:17] And I had already spent months slow know slogging away at just strictly gluten-free diet and it was not making a budge. And then probably within six months it felt like I had a new body and a year into the process, I decided to change everything about my life including my career to help other people learn about this process.
[00:03:39] And kind of the rest is history.
[00:03:44] Julie Michelson: It is so amazing. It's extremely rare that, you know, anybody enters this world. You know, I, I have had people where it was a family member or close friend but some kind of personal connection to [00:04:00] life with auto-immunity. And so you to say you're an early adopter is an understatement for sure.
[00:04:07] You have been such a big part of creating this movement. Can you tell, we talk about autoimmune paleo autoimmune protocol AIP. Can you tell listeners, you know, what that means for those that aren't familiar? Other than people think it's like this big, scary diet, so what is it really? What is autoimmune paleo?
[00:04:30] Angie Alt: Yeah. So yeah, it's funny that you mentioned like the early adopter, you know the. The beginnings of it. It was like, there was like me me and Mickey Trescott and Sarah Valentine blogging. And then like a few other folks joined Eileen layered was an early adopter too. And it was like, there was like five of us on the whole internet talking about this process.
[00:04:54] And it's absolutely crazy to think of where it's at now. It was easy for us to find each other back then. Cause [00:05:00] there was just, we were like sticking out like sore thumbs, but You know, a couple of years ago I wrote a guide on our website. Auto-immune wellness.com about what AIP is. And I wrote it to be an elevator speech because I realized that so many people in our community were like struggling to explain a pretty.
[00:05:20] A pretty complex protocol to their friends and family and trying to get buy in and to their doctors and trying to get by, on buy in. But nobody really understood it and they were having trouble condensing it. So if you don't mind, I'm going to read the, the elevator speech to your audience, please. I
[00:05:37] Julie Michelson: think there's so
[00:05:38] Angie Alt: much.
[00:05:39] Yeah. So the autoimmune protocol, it's also known as autoimmune paleo. The paleo approach or AIP is a science-based elimination and reintroduction diet and lifestyle protocol. It focuses on repairing gut health, balancing hormones and regulating the immune system. The dietary component includes removing food driven sources of inflammation and [00:06:00] restoring nutrient density.
[00:06:01] While the lifestyle component component includes approaches to sleep stress management movement and connection, both with humans and nature in order to help best manage auto-immune disease. It's been used successfully alone or in combination with conventional treatments and depending on a person's needs, it has even been the focus of medical research.
[00:06:20] Wow. That is what AIP is. That
[00:06:24] Julie Michelson: is, that is, so that is the most succinct explanation I have ever heard. And you hit on so many points in there that I'm excited to talk about today. So. That's really perfect. And we didn't plan that ahead, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. I,
[00:06:40] Angie Alt: I, when I wrote it, I remember thinking like, I mean, I think we even told our readers, like, here's your 32nd, second elevator speech memorize this.
[00:06:49] And you'll be able to say what you need to say without like stumbling over your words and trying to include all the ins and
[00:06:55] Julie Michelson: outs. Well, and I, oh my gosh. I'm you got me, like, I don't [00:07:00] even know where I want to start with that. Let's start with. Again, when people hear AIP, they think diet and you just beautifully explained it's more than diet.
[00:07:09] It's a lifestyle. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about why diet alone isn't enough. And then we can touch on some of those other lifestyle areas that you met.
[00:07:19] Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, the, the really like basic, most simple way to say it, a diet is not enough is that all those other factors have a really big role in inflammatory processes in our bodies.
[00:07:33] They have a really big role in the healing process, making room for that healing process. They also play into hormone balance and got repair. You know, an example is movement. That's a really important AIP lifestyle pillar, and we tend to have people who completely under-do it or people who completely overdo it.
[00:07:53] And really the sweet spot is kind of in the middle. If we underdo it, we can contribute to some of the [00:08:00] pain and other kinds of symptoms that folks with autoimmune disease. Experience. If we overdo it, we can actually make our guts leak gear. So working on those lifestyle aspects, whether it be sleep or movement or stress management connection, all of them play into this overall healing process.
[00:08:20] Julie Michelson: So true. And I, I do, I see it all the time. It is. Often, depending on where somebody is in their autoimmune journey and how progressive their symptoms are. I see so many over exercisers in my practice because, and I remember that feeling, you know, we don't want to let go. It's like, no, I'm not gonna give my, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4 diagnosis.
[00:08:44] You know this part of my life. And I should have mentioned in the very beginning of the interview and thank you. I am an AIP certified coach and the program you put together is amazing. And a lot of my listeners probably I don't talk about that a lot. I just simply incorporate it in what I [00:09:00] do with clients.
[00:09:00] So thank you for putting together that program. It really is, is such an amazing training. And the approach works. I mean, we know it, it just does, it works and I love you. I have had, and I'm curious if you have, I've had people actually show up on my doorstep. Eating the right diet, not many, but some for them, you know, they've taken years, they've worked, they've figured it out.
[00:09:27] But they were missing those other pieces. Right. They have no stress management tools or they hadn't. Do you find that like people can spend a lot of time focused on food and they're missing this other huge, important, impactful part.
[00:09:41] Angie Alt: Yes, absolutely. I definitely have had clients like that. You know, I have run a group coaching program in the past, on, in, in addition to working with individual clients in my practice.
[00:09:53] And so, especially with the group program, I really got to see a pretty large volume of people and it's [00:10:00] really cool. It's really common for people actually to be like, oh, I I've been using AIP. I'm doing it. And they are, they're following all the right food eliminations. They're following the nutrient density aspects, but they're not really making progress.
[00:10:14] And then when you dig in, you find out, oh, like they're also trying to Meredith. Or, you know, they're working 80 hours a week and they're not getting any sleep. Or they're a brand new mom and they're in the middle of a master's program and they're so stressed out, you know? So it's like these lifestyle aspects.
[00:10:32] And I think in the beginning, the diet seals very intimidating, the changes that you're going to make to the way you eat, even, even though they are meant to be temporary, that feels really intimidating and. Compared to the rest of our society, really a massive change. But I think those of us who've done it for any length of time and especially work with other people know that the truth is that the lifestyle aspects are really where it takes a lot of work and effort and [00:11:00] dedication over the.
[00:11:01] Julie Michelson: And I will fully admit is I, I do live in AIP lifestyle. I wasn't lucky enough to have found AIP when I wasn't. Well Hmm. Parts and pieces and figured it all out, you know, trying this and trying that. But as somebody who lives that, you know, I know what foods inflame me, I know what to avoid. So that's easy.
[00:11:25] I don't even have to think about that at this point. Like it is, it's just second nature, whether I'm home traveling doesn't matter. But. Even doing what I do every day and working with people on all of those lifestyle areas, I find like, Ooh, you know, I I've, I've lost a little bit of it. Haven't been sleeping as much lately.
[00:11:45] Oh, my stress management has fallen. I, you know so I do, I agree. Those are the areas once you're in the groove, like, and I always say we, I just had somebody contact me this morning saying, oh, my stress management routine is. [00:12:00] Great. I teach stress management and I'm like, Ooh, those two things don't always go together.
[00:12:06] We always like, because our stressors are always changing too. And I say, I've had so many people show up as well and say, oh, I'm not stressed. And then they rattle off like what you just said, like, I'm a new mom, I'm a mess. And I'm like, and you have auto-immunity chronic illness. You have chronic
[00:12:24] Angie Alt: stress.
[00:12:25] Exactly. There's already an underlying baseline of, of stress. You're kind of operating from a foundation of stress, this like background noise of stress. If you've got auto immune disease and, you know, especially when it comes to the lifestyle pillar of, of stress management, I mean, this really applies to all the lifestyle pillars.
[00:12:42] They take time and effort to, you have to continually be tweaking and working on them. But stress management, I always described to folks that it's like taking out the trash. It's not a chore that's ever going to be done. You don't just one day stop taking out the trash from your house, right?
[00:12:55] Otherwise your house just fills up with stinky, smelly, trash, and it's really [00:13:00] unsanitary. It's the same way with stress management. You have to regularly do that chore to help, help manage things and keep it in.
[00:13:08] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. So one of the other pillars that you mentioned is connection, connection with others, connection with nature.
[00:13:16] I know with everything that's been going on in the world and we talk about stress management and self-care, and. Different things fall under the umbrella of self care. But I know lately you have been focused on heightening awareness to community care. And so let's, let's talk a little bit about that and how we can start to support each other in that way.
[00:13:39] Yeah.
[00:13:40] Angie Alt: You know I mean, to be honest, I started to focus on this actually a little prior to the pandemic. But especially. After the pandemic started, it really became so clear for all of us, probably because we, you know, went through some periods of isolation and locked down and you know, we had to be so careful about spending [00:14:00] time together and being in community that I really started to, to think about community care, being more central than self-care.
[00:14:07] I feel like. Especially in health and wellness spaces, but I would just say in society at large, we have a really strong self care message right now. You know, you see it everywhere you know, make sure you're practicing your self-care do your self care or whatever. I think we've gone too far in the direction of self and we need a course correction back to community.
[00:14:32] You know, sometimes I saw quote and I, I'm not going to be able to remember the woman's name, but she said a few years ago, shouting self care at people who need community care is how we fail them. I couldn't agree more. We need the support of each other connection to not only nature, but to other human beings is an AIP lifestyle pillar.
[00:14:55] And part of the reason is that research shows we need those [00:15:00] connections. You know, there's research out there that shows that. Smoking a pack of cigarettes a day is less detrimental to your health. Then then very deep loneliness is which that's not an endorsement to read out and smoke cigarettes.
[00:15:14] We're
[00:15:14] Julie Michelson: heightening the awareness to just how deep
[00:15:17] Angie Alt: our health, how damaging to our health loneliness is. You know, when we wrote the autoimmune wellness handbook, I did some research around this then like another interesting piece of research that I came across was how. The pain of a broken connection, a broken relationship causes physical pain that can actually be treated with an N said, we can, we can take ibuprofen to treat the pain of a broken heart, which we think of as emotional, but it has physical impacts.
[00:15:49] So those, those community connections, I just saw as more and more and more important. And I started to also recognize that a lot of our like kind of root cause underlying issues that are, you [00:16:00] know, detrimental to all of our health are related to social problems. We need to solve them as a community. You know, we can't, we can't take enough hot.
[00:16:09] They get rid of those problems. Right.
[00:16:12] Julie Michelson: It's so true. I mean, if you even just think about all of the beautiful chemicals released when we have each other to each other and, and that. I agree, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, I do think it heightens the awareness. And really, I mean, I, I, I could feel it.
[00:16:33] I remember when I finally said, you know, to my friends, like, Hey, why don't you guys Clover? You know, like it was just this. And I, I really started focusing on that within my client base and my community. I'm like, Hey, you know, in a way where you feel safe, Who are you coming into contact with? So what do you, what do you think, what would be like a basic for this kind [00:17:00] of shift from self to community?
[00:17:02] Like what can people be doing to, to be focusing more on community? I think
[00:17:08] Angie Alt: you know, one aspect of community care shifting this focus from self to community is, is just like simply reaching out, just taking, just taking the time to just reach out to folks, just check in on somebody especially in the autoimmune community.
[00:17:25] I think we're actually really great at this already. I think a lot of us already have this skill we've had. Form this community around dealing with chronic disease. And I think we already have the skill set. So like, you know, checking in on your friend with her RA diagnosis, like, how are you feeling today?
[00:17:45] How's the joint pain, you know Checking in on a coworker who maybe just got a Hashi's diagnosis like that. It's so simple at the start. I think it doesn't have to be over complicated. It can be as simple [00:18:00] as, Hey, everybody wanting to get together at the park and have like an AIP potluck, you know, let's, let's share some food together, get some fresh air D double connection connection with nature connection, with nature and connection with other humans, you know, it doesn't have to be like, Formal formal and fancy.
[00:18:20] You know, you don't, you don't need to raise it to the level of like a community activist type of level. If that's where you're called to go go there. But I think it's actually really simple.
[00:18:32] Julie Michelson: I love that I love. And you, you hit on this. One of my favorite things. I'm always like do X outside and you're getting a double Hertz, how many pillars you can really increase your pillars when you're outside.
[00:18:45] It's amazing. You, you mentioned that research, you do, and this is one of the challenges in. The functional medicine world alternative approaches, integrative medicine would have, you know, [00:19:00] all of them is this lack of peer reviewed studies, right. That the allopathic medicine has that hands down. And so many, you mentioned your elevator pitch is something someone can bring to their doctor, you know, but so many physicians are rooted in, well, like, well, where's this.
[00:19:16] You it's been really exciting. The research that's been done, the peer review studies that are coming out. Tell listeners a little bit about that because to me. I don't need a study. I know, you know, we've lived it, we see it. We know it works. But it, to me, I think of the studies as this bridge of, I mean, it's hope that we really are bridging that gap between what we know and, and what traditional Western medicine will accept a science.
[00:19:48] So. Share a little bit about some of the, some of the work you've been doing.
[00:19:53] Angie Alt: Yeah. So first of all, I think it helps that I don't come from a research [00:20:00] background. I'm not a licensed medical professional. You know, I didn't start my career path in a research university setting. I, so I didn't have any kind of preconceived notions about whether or not we could pull this research off.
[00:20:19] Right. I just thought. I know this works and I've been presented with the opportunity to partner with doctors and researchers. And, and let's, let's get this off the ground and do this. And I also think you know, like I had a little bit of a sassy attitude to kind of like, okay, they want data fine.
[00:20:37] Let's get them their data. You know, like, I know, I know this works, so let's get them their data. So back in 2016 we had a reader of our blog at autoimmune wellness. And he was a man with ulcerative colitis and he was a patient of Dr. Gauri kind of Jedi the head of gastroenterology at scripts in San Diego.
[00:20:57] And he went to [00:21:00] her and, you know, she did colonoscopy and she saw that he was in really bad shape and she was really recommending that he start biologics, immune suppressing. To try to get the ulcerative colitis under control. And he said, well, you know, I found out about this diet. He was reading about otomy protocol on our website.
[00:21:17] And he was like, I really want to try AIP first. And she was like, okay, I'll give you three months. But if it's not in better shape than three. Like we have to do something, you know, she was really worried about his health. She was trying to be a really proactive doctor. Well, he went and implemented the otomy protocol.
[00:21:33] He came back in three months, she repeated the imaging and he was in full remission and she was so shocked that she was like, okay, wait a minute. What did you do? And where did you find this information? And she went to our website. She looked through all the information. She saw that I ran a group program, teaching people how to adopt the process and she contacted us and said, I want to do a study.
[00:21:57] And you already have a [00:22:00] process in place that my patients could go through where you partner with. And of course we said yes. And so we enrolled folks into an IDD and an IBD study. So ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. And by week six of the process, which was an overall 10 week process 73% of them were in full clinical remission.
[00:22:23] So. I still can't say that without getting emotional, I have
[00:22:27] Julie Michelson: goosebumps and I've read this stuff. Like I know, I already know.
[00:22:31] Angie Alt: Yeah. So that was very amazing. I remember when they started like going through the test results and the, and the data and getting everything put together and they, they, they figured out that they had 73% of them in remission and Dr.
[00:22:46] Kinda jetty called me and she said, It works. And I say, I told you so so that was really amazing. It was really validating to our community and following the publication of that study our community said we want. [00:23:00] Studies and we're willing to put our own money on the line. Like we want to fund it.
[00:23:04] And we, we partnered with another doctor and we called it ninja research. We said, okay, fine. We're not going to wait for any amazing drug company to fund us. We're not going to wait for a university to want to grant us money or, you know, whatever we are going to fund this ourselves. And we raised the money with our own community.
[00:23:24] And we got some labs that were willing to sponsor and we ran a Hashimoto's study, which was also very successful, really positive results. Quality of life changed very dramatically for those folks. We had a member of the Hashimoto's study, a woman who was suffering with infertility for quite a long time.
[00:23:41] And we had to kick her out of the study because she got pregnant six weeks in. Or goosebumps. Yeah. So that was like, for us, for us having to kick her out was actually a very positive result. And then following that, we did the same thing raised money and partnered with another researcher [00:24:00] to study. The efficacy of AIP for psoriasis and eczema.
[00:24:04] And we're still waiting for the results of that study. Unfortunately COVID hit and the lab situation got very complicated, so we are still waiting for publication there. But but you know,
[00:24:13] Julie Michelson: and I know because we've seen it. Yeah. Results are going to be
[00:24:16] Angie Alt: amazing. I really am. I think. I crossed some of our former some of our former subjects who were participating in that study have reached out to me and said how well it worked.
[00:24:26] So I hope that that is reflected in our study results. So yeah. That, that is what we've done and how we've done it. And it's been really amazing. Some sub studies have come out of those original studies. For instance, the IBD study, they You know, they were taking a stool samples and, you know, they did blood work, they did imaging other things like that.
[00:24:45] And about a year or so ago, they had a sub study come out, showing that we changed RNA expression. Well so this has the power to impact our genetics. So it it's been very amazing. [00:25:00]
[00:25:00] Julie Michelson: That is amazing. It is incredible. We talked a little bit about the fact that, you know, it's not just diet it's lifestyle.
[00:25:10] There are these other pillars. What do you see? Because you know, you, you are an AIP pioneer. What do you think some of the biggest misconceptions about AIP are.
[00:25:21] Angie Alt: I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that it's forever, that you will be in the elimination phase of the protocol forever. I mean, essentially the autoimmune protocol is a very sophisticated form of an elimination and reintroduction protocol and that re elimination and reintroduction is kind of the gold standard that's used even in the medical community to help determine when a person has allergies or other kinds of food sensitivities.
[00:25:48] And basically AIP is a really sophisticated version of that sophisticated in the fact that we don't just eliminate food. We focus a lot. I'm really flooding the body with nutrient density. There's a lot [00:26:00] of food additions that also go in, but people think that that phase where you're in the elimination process and it is pretty restricted, that that is that that's forever that that's your diet now for the rest of your life.
[00:26:12] And that's not true. Folks usually maintain that. Or a minimum of 30 days just to kind of clear the slate. So when they begin the reintroductions, they'll be able to tell which ones, which foods work and which don't for them. And as you know, kind of far side of it, it's about 90 days. If you get to 90 days on the elimination phase, and you're not really seeing the results you want to see, you really need to be working with a practitioner and digging in to figure out if there's anything underlying that can't really be addressed with dietary.
[00:26:41] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. I always say, you know, we have expectations that the needle will move. But I love the, you know, it is, it's not a forever, it's an operation gathering. I always say, you know, it's the healing, you know, that is what makes it so different. It's focused on, it's not just, what are you taking out?
[00:26:58] What are you putting in [00:27:00] so that your body can heal? But yeah, that's, that's where, that's how I approach it as well. I always am like, okay, the needle should be moving or should have moved further. It shouldn't take you two years in the elimination. It like, you're not the, I believe there's no benefit if you're not getting benefit at 90 writings, you know, to just continue doing the same thing you need.
[00:27:21] Look under rocks, we say, yeah. Yeah. So what is one step that listeners can take today? And I know you have this, just the heat, you know, buckets and buckets to pull from, but something simple that our listeners can put into action starting right now that can help improve their health.
[00:27:40] Angie Alt: Gosh. Yeah.
[00:27:42] There's like lots and lots of different things. I, I would say. Hydration, I would say work on hydration as a very first step. Yeah. Great job, Julie. I love that. Yeah. You're on your water today. Good job. I that is the very first thing that we implement [00:28:00] in my group program. And the reason that we do that is because it's, it's such a very low hanging fruit, but can have a really big impact.
[00:28:11] When I learned that, I mean, I, I, I was formally taught that in my nutritional therapy training, but when I really learned that I had a client in my practice, this man he was Scottish. He was very into his teeth and he drank a lot of caffeinated teas that were very, had a diarrhetic effect all day, every day, not a lot of water.
[00:28:34] And, you know, he was pursuing a lot of really like, You know, really advanced and expensive testing, trying to figure out what was wrong. And I was like, let's, let's just start with like water. Let's like, let's try and get more water in you. And it made a really big difference. You know, you were mentioning moving the needle earlier.
[00:28:54] It was like a big needle mover. And that's when I was like completely convinced, [00:29:00] oh, this can actually be. Huge baseline change for folks just by adding more water. So I would say start with adding more water.
[00:29:09] Julie Michelson: I love that. And, and it is so basic that it is so often overlooked
[00:29:15] Angie Alt: or easy to overlook. Yeah.
[00:29:17] Julie Michelson: People think they drink more water than they do, especially if they're drinking other beverages. And so I love that one. You heard it drink more water. So before we wrap up, I know you mentioned a couple of times the website, but tell listeners where they can find you and then we'll also include it in the show notes.
[00:29:38] Angie Alt: Yeah, sure. They can find me and my partner, Mickey Trescott at auto-immune wellness.com. That's where we kind of house all the things you can find. Our books, our pods. Links to AIP certified coach, the training program that Julie mentioned that she went through. Thanks for joining us, Julie everything kind of lives there, and you can find the information, thus, all the studies are there.
[00:29:59] If you would like to read [00:30:00] the studies. So.
[00:30:02] Julie Michelson: I love it. Thank you so much, Angie, you have shared just amazing amounts of gold. Usually, you know, we're looking for an nugget and this was just a, it's a real pot of gold. I really appreciate you being with us today. And for everyone listening, remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show.
[00:30:23] I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did, and I will see you next week.
[00:00:46] Angie runs online group coaching programs that help people transition their lifestyle to the auto immune product. She's an award-winning author.
[00:00:55] And she also partners with doctors to conduct medical research [00:01:00] that scientifically shows the efficacy of AIP. Along with Mickey Trescott. Angie runs, auto-immune wellness.com, an amazing website serving the auto-immune community. She's a co-creator and co-teacher of AIP certified coach, which is an advanced training for wellness professional.
[00:01:20] Angie, welcome to the podcast. Your work has made such a tremendous contribution to the auto immune community. Can you tell listeners how this became your life past?
[00:01:33] Angie Alt: First of all, thank you for having me on. And yeah, it's not like I saw the, you know, career counselor in high school and they said like, this is the path for you.
[00:01:43] It was very kind of accidental process. I got very ill with auto-immune disease. A little over a decade ago now. And. In that process of kind of looking for my answers and, and trying to heal as probably [00:02:00] most folks in your audience know that's not super easy with auto immune disease.
[00:02:03] I kind of found the, the diet and lifestyle path and found the early beginnings of the autoimmune protocol when you know, like Sarah Ballantine. First putting her blog together and starting to share the protocol as we kind of know it now today. And I said, oh boy, I have autoimmune disease.
[00:02:21] I have three autoimmune diseases. By that point, I had been diagnosed with three and one of them was celiac disease. So I was already adjusting my diet to be a gluten-free diet. And I saw the autoimmune protocol and I said, oh, that's, that's probably me. I probably have to try this if I really want to feel better.
[00:02:38] And I jumped right in and I already had a blog at that time. I blogged about my family's life overseas. My husband works in international development and humanitarian aid. So we lived in west Africa and I blogged about our life there and I was getting sicker and sicker while we were there.
[00:02:54] And so the blog was kind of morphing to be about this journey. And so I just [00:03:00] started, I said, okay, I've already got this blog. I'm starting this new dietary path. I'm going to. You know, tell people how this is working for me or if it's not working. But it worked in a really big way. Within six weeks of starting the autoimmune protocol, my gluten antibodies dropped by half.
[00:03:17] And I had already spent months slow know slogging away at just strictly gluten-free diet and it was not making a budge. And then probably within six months it felt like I had a new body and a year into the process, I decided to change everything about my life including my career to help other people learn about this process.
[00:03:39] And kind of the rest is history.
[00:03:44] Julie Michelson: It is so amazing. It's extremely rare that, you know, anybody enters this world. You know, I, I have had people where it was a family member or close friend but some kind of personal connection to [00:04:00] life with auto-immunity. And so you to say you're an early adopter is an understatement for sure.
[00:04:07] You have been such a big part of creating this movement. Can you tell, we talk about autoimmune paleo autoimmune protocol AIP. Can you tell listeners, you know, what that means for those that aren't familiar? Other than people think it's like this big, scary diet, so what is it really? What is autoimmune paleo?
[00:04:30] Angie Alt: Yeah. So yeah, it's funny that you mentioned like the early adopter, you know the. The beginnings of it. It was like, there was like me me and Mickey Trescott and Sarah Valentine blogging. And then like a few other folks joined Eileen layered was an early adopter too. And it was like, there was like five of us on the whole internet talking about this process.
[00:04:54] And it's absolutely crazy to think of where it's at now. It was easy for us to find each other back then. Cause [00:05:00] there was just, we were like sticking out like sore thumbs, but You know, a couple of years ago I wrote a guide on our website. Auto-immune wellness.com about what AIP is. And I wrote it to be an elevator speech because I realized that so many people in our community were like struggling to explain a pretty.
[00:05:20] A pretty complex protocol to their friends and family and trying to get buy in and to their doctors and trying to get by, on buy in. But nobody really understood it and they were having trouble condensing it. So if you don't mind, I'm going to read the, the elevator speech to your audience, please. I
[00:05:37] Julie Michelson: think there's so
[00:05:38] Angie Alt: much.
[00:05:39] Yeah. So the autoimmune protocol, it's also known as autoimmune paleo. The paleo approach or AIP is a science-based elimination and reintroduction diet and lifestyle protocol. It focuses on repairing gut health, balancing hormones and regulating the immune system. The dietary component includes removing food driven sources of inflammation and [00:06:00] restoring nutrient density.
[00:06:01] While the lifestyle component component includes approaches to sleep stress management movement and connection, both with humans and nature in order to help best manage auto-immune disease. It's been used successfully alone or in combination with conventional treatments and depending on a person's needs, it has even been the focus of medical research.
[00:06:20] Wow. That is what AIP is. That
[00:06:24] Julie Michelson: is, that is, so that is the most succinct explanation I have ever heard. And you hit on so many points in there that I'm excited to talk about today. So. That's really perfect. And we didn't plan that ahead, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. I,
[00:06:40] Angie Alt: I, when I wrote it, I remember thinking like, I mean, I think we even told our readers, like, here's your 32nd, second elevator speech memorize this.
[00:06:49] And you'll be able to say what you need to say without like stumbling over your words and trying to include all the ins and
[00:06:55] Julie Michelson: outs. Well, and I, oh my gosh. I'm you got me, like, I don't [00:07:00] even know where I want to start with that. Let's start with. Again, when people hear AIP, they think diet and you just beautifully explained it's more than diet.
[00:07:09] It's a lifestyle. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about why diet alone isn't enough. And then we can touch on some of those other lifestyle areas that you met.
[00:07:19] Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, the, the really like basic, most simple way to say it, a diet is not enough is that all those other factors have a really big role in inflammatory processes in our bodies.
[00:07:33] They have a really big role in the healing process, making room for that healing process. They also play into hormone balance and got repair. You know, an example is movement. That's a really important AIP lifestyle pillar, and we tend to have people who completely under-do it or people who completely overdo it.
[00:07:53] And really the sweet spot is kind of in the middle. If we underdo it, we can contribute to some of the [00:08:00] pain and other kinds of symptoms that folks with autoimmune disease. Experience. If we overdo it, we can actually make our guts leak gear. So working on those lifestyle aspects, whether it be sleep or movement or stress management connection, all of them play into this overall healing process.
[00:08:20] Julie Michelson: So true. And I, I do, I see it all the time. It is. Often, depending on where somebody is in their autoimmune journey and how progressive their symptoms are. I see so many over exercisers in my practice because, and I remember that feeling, you know, we don't want to let go. It's like, no, I'm not gonna give my, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4 diagnosis.
[00:08:44] You know this part of my life. And I should have mentioned in the very beginning of the interview and thank you. I am an AIP certified coach and the program you put together is amazing. And a lot of my listeners probably I don't talk about that a lot. I just simply incorporate it in what I [00:09:00] do with clients.
[00:09:00] So thank you for putting together that program. It really is, is such an amazing training. And the approach works. I mean, we know it, it just does, it works and I love you. I have had, and I'm curious if you have, I've had people actually show up on my doorstep. Eating the right diet, not many, but some for them, you know, they've taken years, they've worked, they've figured it out.
[00:09:27] But they were missing those other pieces. Right. They have no stress management tools or they hadn't. Do you find that like people can spend a lot of time focused on food and they're missing this other huge, important, impactful part.
[00:09:41] Angie Alt: Yes, absolutely. I definitely have had clients like that. You know, I have run a group coaching program in the past, on, in, in addition to working with individual clients in my practice.
[00:09:53] And so, especially with the group program, I really got to see a pretty large volume of people and it's [00:10:00] really cool. It's really common for people actually to be like, oh, I I've been using AIP. I'm doing it. And they are, they're following all the right food eliminations. They're following the nutrient density aspects, but they're not really making progress.
[00:10:14] And then when you dig in, you find out, oh, like they're also trying to Meredith. Or, you know, they're working 80 hours a week and they're not getting any sleep. Or they're a brand new mom and they're in the middle of a master's program and they're so stressed out, you know? So it's like these lifestyle aspects.
[00:10:32] And I think in the beginning, the diet seals very intimidating, the changes that you're going to make to the way you eat, even, even though they are meant to be temporary, that feels really intimidating and. Compared to the rest of our society, really a massive change. But I think those of us who've done it for any length of time and especially work with other people know that the truth is that the lifestyle aspects are really where it takes a lot of work and effort and [00:11:00] dedication over the.
[00:11:01] Julie Michelson: And I will fully admit is I, I do live in AIP lifestyle. I wasn't lucky enough to have found AIP when I wasn't. Well Hmm. Parts and pieces and figured it all out, you know, trying this and trying that. But as somebody who lives that, you know, I know what foods inflame me, I know what to avoid. So that's easy.
[00:11:25] I don't even have to think about that at this point. Like it is, it's just second nature, whether I'm home traveling doesn't matter. But. Even doing what I do every day and working with people on all of those lifestyle areas, I find like, Ooh, you know, I I've, I've lost a little bit of it. Haven't been sleeping as much lately.
[00:11:45] Oh, my stress management has fallen. I, you know so I do, I agree. Those are the areas once you're in the groove, like, and I always say we, I just had somebody contact me this morning saying, oh, my stress management routine is. [00:12:00] Great. I teach stress management and I'm like, Ooh, those two things don't always go together.
[00:12:06] We always like, because our stressors are always changing too. And I say, I've had so many people show up as well and say, oh, I'm not stressed. And then they rattle off like what you just said, like, I'm a new mom, I'm a mess. And I'm like, and you have auto-immunity chronic illness. You have chronic
[00:12:24] Angie Alt: stress.
[00:12:25] Exactly. There's already an underlying baseline of, of stress. You're kind of operating from a foundation of stress, this like background noise of stress. If you've got auto immune disease and, you know, especially when it comes to the lifestyle pillar of, of stress management, I mean, this really applies to all the lifestyle pillars.
[00:12:42] They take time and effort to, you have to continually be tweaking and working on them. But stress management, I always described to folks that it's like taking out the trash. It's not a chore that's ever going to be done. You don't just one day stop taking out the trash from your house, right?
[00:12:55] Otherwise your house just fills up with stinky, smelly, trash, and it's really [00:13:00] unsanitary. It's the same way with stress management. You have to regularly do that chore to help, help manage things and keep it in.
[00:13:08] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. So one of the other pillars that you mentioned is connection, connection with others, connection with nature.
[00:13:16] I know with everything that's been going on in the world and we talk about stress management and self-care, and. Different things fall under the umbrella of self care. But I know lately you have been focused on heightening awareness to community care. And so let's, let's talk a little bit about that and how we can start to support each other in that way.
[00:13:39] Yeah.
[00:13:40] Angie Alt: You know I mean, to be honest, I started to focus on this actually a little prior to the pandemic. But especially. After the pandemic started, it really became so clear for all of us, probably because we, you know, went through some periods of isolation and locked down and you know, we had to be so careful about spending [00:14:00] time together and being in community that I really started to, to think about community care, being more central than self-care.
[00:14:07] I feel like. Especially in health and wellness spaces, but I would just say in society at large, we have a really strong self care message right now. You know, you see it everywhere you know, make sure you're practicing your self-care do your self care or whatever. I think we've gone too far in the direction of self and we need a course correction back to community.
[00:14:32] You know, sometimes I saw quote and I, I'm not going to be able to remember the woman's name, but she said a few years ago, shouting self care at people who need community care is how we fail them. I couldn't agree more. We need the support of each other connection to not only nature, but to other human beings is an AIP lifestyle pillar.
[00:14:55] And part of the reason is that research shows we need those [00:15:00] connections. You know, there's research out there that shows that. Smoking a pack of cigarettes a day is less detrimental to your health. Then then very deep loneliness is which that's not an endorsement to read out and smoke cigarettes.
[00:15:14] We're
[00:15:14] Julie Michelson: heightening the awareness to just how deep
[00:15:17] Angie Alt: our health, how damaging to our health loneliness is. You know, when we wrote the autoimmune wellness handbook, I did some research around this then like another interesting piece of research that I came across was how. The pain of a broken connection, a broken relationship causes physical pain that can actually be treated with an N said, we can, we can take ibuprofen to treat the pain of a broken heart, which we think of as emotional, but it has physical impacts.
[00:15:49] So those, those community connections, I just saw as more and more and more important. And I started to also recognize that a lot of our like kind of root cause underlying issues that are, you [00:16:00] know, detrimental to all of our health are related to social problems. We need to solve them as a community. You know, we can't, we can't take enough hot.
[00:16:09] They get rid of those problems. Right.
[00:16:12] Julie Michelson: It's so true. I mean, if you even just think about all of the beautiful chemicals released when we have each other to each other and, and that. I agree, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, I do think it heightens the awareness. And really, I mean, I, I, I could feel it.
[00:16:33] I remember when I finally said, you know, to my friends, like, Hey, why don't you guys Clover? You know, like it was just this. And I, I really started focusing on that within my client base and my community. I'm like, Hey, you know, in a way where you feel safe, Who are you coming into contact with? So what do you, what do you think, what would be like a basic for this kind [00:17:00] of shift from self to community?
[00:17:02] Like what can people be doing to, to be focusing more on community? I think
[00:17:08] Angie Alt: you know, one aspect of community care shifting this focus from self to community is, is just like simply reaching out, just taking, just taking the time to just reach out to folks, just check in on somebody especially in the autoimmune community.
[00:17:25] I think we're actually really great at this already. I think a lot of us already have this skill we've had. Form this community around dealing with chronic disease. And I think we already have the skill set. So like, you know, checking in on your friend with her RA diagnosis, like, how are you feeling today?
[00:17:45] How's the joint pain, you know Checking in on a coworker who maybe just got a Hashi's diagnosis like that. It's so simple at the start. I think it doesn't have to be over complicated. It can be as simple [00:18:00] as, Hey, everybody wanting to get together at the park and have like an AIP potluck, you know, let's, let's share some food together, get some fresh air D double connection connection with nature connection, with nature and connection with other humans, you know, it doesn't have to be like, Formal formal and fancy.
[00:18:20] You know, you don't, you don't need to raise it to the level of like a community activist type of level. If that's where you're called to go go there. But I think it's actually really simple.
[00:18:32] Julie Michelson: I love that I love. And you, you hit on this. One of my favorite things. I'm always like do X outside and you're getting a double Hertz, how many pillars you can really increase your pillars when you're outside.
[00:18:45] It's amazing. You, you mentioned that research, you do, and this is one of the challenges in. The functional medicine world alternative approaches, integrative medicine would have, you know, [00:19:00] all of them is this lack of peer reviewed studies, right. That the allopathic medicine has that hands down. And so many, you mentioned your elevator pitch is something someone can bring to their doctor, you know, but so many physicians are rooted in, well, like, well, where's this.
[00:19:16] You it's been really exciting. The research that's been done, the peer review studies that are coming out. Tell listeners a little bit about that because to me. I don't need a study. I know, you know, we've lived it, we see it. We know it works. But it, to me, I think of the studies as this bridge of, I mean, it's hope that we really are bridging that gap between what we know and, and what traditional Western medicine will accept a science.
[00:19:48] So. Share a little bit about some of the, some of the work you've been doing.
[00:19:53] Angie Alt: Yeah. So first of all, I think it helps that I don't come from a research [00:20:00] background. I'm not a licensed medical professional. You know, I didn't start my career path in a research university setting. I, so I didn't have any kind of preconceived notions about whether or not we could pull this research off.
[00:20:19] Right. I just thought. I know this works and I've been presented with the opportunity to partner with doctors and researchers. And, and let's, let's get this off the ground and do this. And I also think you know, like I had a little bit of a sassy attitude to kind of like, okay, they want data fine.
[00:20:37] Let's get them their data. You know, like, I know, I know this works, so let's get them their data. So back in 2016 we had a reader of our blog at autoimmune wellness. And he was a man with ulcerative colitis and he was a patient of Dr. Gauri kind of Jedi the head of gastroenterology at scripts in San Diego.
[00:20:57] And he went to [00:21:00] her and, you know, she did colonoscopy and she saw that he was in really bad shape and she was really recommending that he start biologics, immune suppressing. To try to get the ulcerative colitis under control. And he said, well, you know, I found out about this diet. He was reading about otomy protocol on our website.
[00:21:17] And he was like, I really want to try AIP first. And she was like, okay, I'll give you three months. But if it's not in better shape than three. Like we have to do something, you know, she was really worried about his health. She was trying to be a really proactive doctor. Well, he went and implemented the otomy protocol.
[00:21:33] He came back in three months, she repeated the imaging and he was in full remission and she was so shocked that she was like, okay, wait a minute. What did you do? And where did you find this information? And she went to our website. She looked through all the information. She saw that I ran a group program, teaching people how to adopt the process and she contacted us and said, I want to do a study.
[00:21:57] And you already have a [00:22:00] process in place that my patients could go through where you partner with. And of course we said yes. And so we enrolled folks into an IDD and an IBD study. So ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. And by week six of the process, which was an overall 10 week process 73% of them were in full clinical remission.
[00:22:23] So. I still can't say that without getting emotional, I have
[00:22:27] Julie Michelson: goosebumps and I've read this stuff. Like I know, I already know.
[00:22:31] Angie Alt: Yeah. So that was very amazing. I remember when they started like going through the test results and the, and the data and getting everything put together and they, they, they figured out that they had 73% of them in remission and Dr.
[00:22:46] Kinda jetty called me and she said, It works. And I say, I told you so so that was really amazing. It was really validating to our community and following the publication of that study our community said we want. [00:23:00] Studies and we're willing to put our own money on the line. Like we want to fund it.
[00:23:04] And we, we partnered with another doctor and we called it ninja research. We said, okay, fine. We're not going to wait for any amazing drug company to fund us. We're not going to wait for a university to want to grant us money or, you know, whatever we are going to fund this ourselves. And we raised the money with our own community.
[00:23:24] And we got some labs that were willing to sponsor and we ran a Hashimoto's study, which was also very successful, really positive results. Quality of life changed very dramatically for those folks. We had a member of the Hashimoto's study, a woman who was suffering with infertility for quite a long time.
[00:23:41] And we had to kick her out of the study because she got pregnant six weeks in. Or goosebumps. Yeah. So that was like, for us, for us having to kick her out was actually a very positive result. And then following that, we did the same thing raised money and partnered with another researcher [00:24:00] to study. The efficacy of AIP for psoriasis and eczema.
[00:24:04] And we're still waiting for the results of that study. Unfortunately COVID hit and the lab situation got very complicated, so we are still waiting for publication there. But but you know,
[00:24:13] Julie Michelson: and I know because we've seen it. Yeah. Results are going to be
[00:24:16] Angie Alt: amazing. I really am. I think. I crossed some of our former some of our former subjects who were participating in that study have reached out to me and said how well it worked.
[00:24:26] So I hope that that is reflected in our study results. So yeah. That, that is what we've done and how we've done it. And it's been really amazing. Some sub studies have come out of those original studies. For instance, the IBD study, they You know, they were taking a stool samples and, you know, they did blood work, they did imaging other things like that.
[00:24:45] And about a year or so ago, they had a sub study come out, showing that we changed RNA expression. Well so this has the power to impact our genetics. So it it's been very amazing. [00:25:00]
[00:25:00] Julie Michelson: That is amazing. It is incredible. We talked a little bit about the fact that, you know, it's not just diet it's lifestyle.
[00:25:10] There are these other pillars. What do you see? Because you know, you, you are an AIP pioneer. What do you think some of the biggest misconceptions about AIP are.
[00:25:21] Angie Alt: I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that it's forever, that you will be in the elimination phase of the protocol forever. I mean, essentially the autoimmune protocol is a very sophisticated form of an elimination and reintroduction protocol and that re elimination and reintroduction is kind of the gold standard that's used even in the medical community to help determine when a person has allergies or other kinds of food sensitivities.
[00:25:48] And basically AIP is a really sophisticated version of that sophisticated in the fact that we don't just eliminate food. We focus a lot. I'm really flooding the body with nutrient density. There's a lot [00:26:00] of food additions that also go in, but people think that that phase where you're in the elimination process and it is pretty restricted, that that is that that's forever that that's your diet now for the rest of your life.
[00:26:12] And that's not true. Folks usually maintain that. Or a minimum of 30 days just to kind of clear the slate. So when they begin the reintroductions, they'll be able to tell which ones, which foods work and which don't for them. And as you know, kind of far side of it, it's about 90 days. If you get to 90 days on the elimination phase, and you're not really seeing the results you want to see, you really need to be working with a practitioner and digging in to figure out if there's anything underlying that can't really be addressed with dietary.
[00:26:41] Julie Michelson: Absolutely. I always say, you know, we have expectations that the needle will move. But I love the, you know, it is, it's not a forever, it's an operation gathering. I always say, you know, it's the healing, you know, that is what makes it so different. It's focused on, it's not just, what are you taking out?
[00:26:58] What are you putting in [00:27:00] so that your body can heal? But yeah, that's, that's where, that's how I approach it as well. I always am like, okay, the needle should be moving or should have moved further. It shouldn't take you two years in the elimination. It like, you're not the, I believe there's no benefit if you're not getting benefit at 90 writings, you know, to just continue doing the same thing you need.
[00:27:21] Look under rocks, we say, yeah. Yeah. So what is one step that listeners can take today? And I know you have this, just the heat, you know, buckets and buckets to pull from, but something simple that our listeners can put into action starting right now that can help improve their health.
[00:27:40] Angie Alt: Gosh. Yeah.
[00:27:42] There's like lots and lots of different things. I, I would say. Hydration, I would say work on hydration as a very first step. Yeah. Great job, Julie. I love that. Yeah. You're on your water today. Good job. I that is the very first thing that we implement [00:28:00] in my group program. And the reason that we do that is because it's, it's such a very low hanging fruit, but can have a really big impact.
[00:28:11] When I learned that, I mean, I, I, I was formally taught that in my nutritional therapy training, but when I really learned that I had a client in my practice, this man he was Scottish. He was very into his teeth and he drank a lot of caffeinated teas that were very, had a diarrhetic effect all day, every day, not a lot of water.
[00:28:34] And, you know, he was pursuing a lot of really like, You know, really advanced and expensive testing, trying to figure out what was wrong. And I was like, let's, let's just start with like water. Let's like, let's try and get more water in you. And it made a really big difference. You know, you were mentioning moving the needle earlier.
[00:28:54] It was like a big needle mover. And that's when I was like completely convinced, [00:29:00] oh, this can actually be. Huge baseline change for folks just by adding more water. So I would say start with adding more water.
[00:29:09] Julie Michelson: I love that. And, and it is so basic that it is so often overlooked
[00:29:15] Angie Alt: or easy to overlook. Yeah.
[00:29:17] Julie Michelson: People think they drink more water than they do, especially if they're drinking other beverages. And so I love that one. You heard it drink more water. So before we wrap up, I know you mentioned a couple of times the website, but tell listeners where they can find you and then we'll also include it in the show notes.
[00:29:38] Angie Alt: Yeah, sure. They can find me and my partner, Mickey Trescott at auto-immune wellness.com. That's where we kind of house all the things you can find. Our books, our pods. Links to AIP certified coach, the training program that Julie mentioned that she went through. Thanks for joining us, Julie everything kind of lives there, and you can find the information, thus, all the studies are there.
[00:29:59] If you would like to read [00:30:00] the studies. So.
[00:30:02] Julie Michelson: I love it. Thank you so much, Angie, you have shared just amazing amounts of gold. Usually, you know, we're looking for an nugget and this was just a, it's a real pot of gold. I really appreciate you being with us today. And for everyone listening, remember, you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show.
[00:30:23] I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did, and I will see you next week.
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My Guest For This Episode
My Guest For This Episode
Connect with Angie Alt
Angie Alt
Autoimmune Protocol (AIP) Specialist
Angie Alt, NTP, CHC is the creator and director of a groundbreaking series of online group health coaching programs which have helped thousands of people transition their diets and lifestyle to the Autoimmune Protocol.
She is also author and co-author of the award-winning books The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook and The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook. Angie partners with doctors to conduct medical research, including studies targeting inflammatory bowel disease, autoimmune thyroid disease, psoriasis, and eczema. Additionally, Angie consults with startup companies working to address autoimmune healthcare challenges.
In 2015, Angie partnered with Mickey Trescott, FNTP at Autoimmunewellness.com, an award-winning website serving millions with autoimmune disease annually. Along with Mickey Trescott and Sarah Ballantyne, PhD. Angie is also the co-creator and co-teacher of AIP Certified Coach, an advanced training for wellness practitioners from across the healthcare spectrum.
She is also author and co-author of the award-winning books The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook and The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook. Angie partners with doctors to conduct medical research, including studies targeting inflammatory bowel disease, autoimmune thyroid disease, psoriasis, and eczema. Additionally, Angie consults with startup companies working to address autoimmune healthcare challenges.
In 2015, Angie partnered with Mickey Trescott, FNTP at Autoimmunewellness.com, an award-winning website serving millions with autoimmune disease annually. Along with Mickey Trescott and Sarah Ballantyne, PhD. Angie is also the co-creator and co-teacher of AIP Certified Coach, an advanced training for wellness practitioners from across the healthcare spectrum.
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