Episode 55
Emily Kiberd:
Working out with Hashimoto's: How to do it Right!
In this episode we talk about exercising with autoimmunity, especially Hashimoto's, and why the extra gentle approach is not going to help. My friend Dr. Emily Kliberd is here to guide us in building the exercise routine that will truly create the results we are looking for.
First Aired on: Oct 3, 2022
Episode 55
Emily Kiberd:
Working out with Hashimoto's: How to do it Right!
In this episode we talk about exercising with autoimmunity, especially Hashimoto's, and why the extra gentle approach is not going to help. My friend Dr. Emily Kliberd is here to guide us in building the exercise routine that will truly create the results we are looking for.
First Aired on: Oct 3, 2022
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In today's episode, Dr. Emily Kiberd shares her experience and expertise with us regarding the right way to work out with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, or any autoimmune disorder.
Dr. Kiberd is a chiropractor, mother of two, and the creator of Thyroid Strong; a workout program for women with Hashimoto's to learn how to work out without the burnout. She put her own Hashimoto's into remission, and now helps other women do the same.
Dr. Kiberd shares her all too familiar journey with hypothyroid and challenges in getting a proper diagnosis. Like so many, she was told that she was tired and had brain fog because she was a new mom. Once properly diagnosed and making the lifestyle changes needed to begin healing, she continued to struggle to lose weight. Turning to aerobics and intense exercise didn't help.
Once she switched gears and focused on a resistance training routine to fuel muscle, she began to get results with greater ease than imagined.
Why most doctors have it wrong:
Often those of us with autoimmunity are told to only do gentle exercise such as stretching, walking, or gentle yoga or pilates. Dr. Kiberd has a completely different approach. We need to fuel muscle, which is the largest endocrine system, in order to improve metabolism, reduce inflammation, and support soft tissue to improve pain.
With hypothyroid, systems are slow and we don't turn over tissues as quickly as other people. Regeneration takes longer. It is imperative to avoid overuse injuries.
Tendons also get stronger under load, which is why resistance training is so important.
Frozen shoulder syndrome is often related to hypothyroid, not injury. Stretching isn't the answer.
Ask yourself...
What is not moving enough (stiff)?
What is moving too much (hyper-mobility)?
Hyper-mobility is a common issue with autoimmunity.
It can be assessed using the Baten Score.
Doing the basics consistently is key!
Using kettle bells, low reps and rest period in between is key.
Dr. Kiberd typically starts clients off with two 12 kilo bells, equivalent to 50lbs. It may sound like a lot, but LOW REPS!
All of the power you need is in there!
Don't be under a load for more than 20 seconds.
Don't suck your belly in for "skinny belly".
Use an audible exhale to tap into your power.
Check out Thyroid Strong for the six or twelve week program!
#1 thing to do:
Get enough protein to build muscle. 30 grams per meal.
Dr. Kiberd is a chiropractor, mother of two, and the creator of Thyroid Strong; a workout program for women with Hashimoto's to learn how to work out without the burnout. She put her own Hashimoto's into remission, and now helps other women do the same.
Dr. Kiberd shares her all too familiar journey with hypothyroid and challenges in getting a proper diagnosis. Like so many, she was told that she was tired and had brain fog because she was a new mom. Once properly diagnosed and making the lifestyle changes needed to begin healing, she continued to struggle to lose weight. Turning to aerobics and intense exercise didn't help.
Once she switched gears and focused on a resistance training routine to fuel muscle, she began to get results with greater ease than imagined.
Why most doctors have it wrong:
Often those of us with autoimmunity are told to only do gentle exercise such as stretching, walking, or gentle yoga or pilates. Dr. Kiberd has a completely different approach. We need to fuel muscle, which is the largest endocrine system, in order to improve metabolism, reduce inflammation, and support soft tissue to improve pain.
With hypothyroid, systems are slow and we don't turn over tissues as quickly as other people. Regeneration takes longer. It is imperative to avoid overuse injuries.
Tendons also get stronger under load, which is why resistance training is so important.
Frozen shoulder syndrome is often related to hypothyroid, not injury. Stretching isn't the answer.
Ask yourself...
What is not moving enough (stiff)?
What is moving too much (hyper-mobility)?
Hyper-mobility is a common issue with autoimmunity.
It can be assessed using the Baten Score.
Doing the basics consistently is key!
Using kettle bells, low reps and rest period in between is key.
Dr. Kiberd typically starts clients off with two 12 kilo bells, equivalent to 50lbs. It may sound like a lot, but LOW REPS!
All of the power you need is in there!
Don't be under a load for more than 20 seconds.
Don't suck your belly in for "skinny belly".
Use an audible exhale to tap into your power.
Check out Thyroid Strong for the six or twelve week program!
#1 thing to do:
Get enough protein to build muscle. 30 grams per meal.
Other Resources:
Connect with Emily Kiberd
Episode Transcript
[Page//00:00:00] Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we're joined by Dr. Emily Kiberd chiropractor, mama of two and creator of thyroid strong, which is a workout program designed specifically for women with Hashimotos. We're talking about why your workout approach might be all wrong, whether it's gentle or [Page//00:01:00] intense and how it's essential to feed our muscles using resistance training in order to support healing and get the results we desire without the overload, better results with less output.
[Page//00:01:12] Dr. Kiberd, welcome to the podcast.
[Page//00:01:15] Emily Kiberd: Thanks so much for having me excited to be.
[Page//00:01:18] Julie Michelson: I am so excited to dig into this topic because from personal experience, as well as clinical experience, I know how important it is. And we were. Talking before I hit record as to, you know, that this is, it's such an important topic yet, so few are talking about it and you have this amazing perspective and lens.
[Page//00:01:40] But I'd love to start with story because I'm guessing that you, you know, weren't dreaming of creating thyroid strong when you were a little girl. So how did you get to be doing.
[Page//00:01:53] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. So I've been a chiropractor for 14 years since 2007. And. [Page//00:02:00] Had a baby in 2015, and I had all these symptoms that you would kind of put under this umbrella of you're a new mom symptoms, extreme fatigue, losing my hair. Outer. Third of my eyebrow. Couldn't lose the baby weight. Couldn't finish my sentence, right.
[Page//00:02:15] That brain fog and. I just thought, okay, this is my new norm. Like my mom, friends, my patients, my colleagues are like, you're a new mom. Of course you're tired. And you can't, finish your sentence. Your baby's probably not sleeping. And you're getting up a bunch of times a night, 18 months postpartum. Same symptoms.
[Page//00:02:34] And I was like, this cannot be how I live my life. This is like, you know, I run a clinic in New York city. I run a team, my new baby, I can't be present with like, I didn't feel like I could, could connect. And so I started to kind of, you know, walk down that path that a lot of us walked down conventional, you know, primary care.
[Page//00:02:53] Endocrinologist two functional medicine docs and wasn't ever really given a clear diagnosis. And one of my girlfriends [Page//00:03:00] said, Hey why don't you go meet my friend, Dr. Gabriel lion. And so I met Gabrielle, she took a bunch of blood work. She's a functional medicine doc. And she's like, you have an autoimmune condition.
[Page//00:03:09] You have elevated Throid antibodies has no one tested that or told you this. I was like, no. And I had brought her past lab work and she's like, oh, everyone's only tested TSH. And my TSH was, it was like, I think it was like 2.8 to three. It wasn't, you know, off the charts, but. It was elevated. And I had all the symptoms, right?
[Page//00:03:32] The, you know, the two biggest struggles for women with Hashimotos, which is what I was diagnosed with was difficulty losing weight. And that extreme fatigue, like fatigue, worse than first trimester, pregnancy fatigue. And so we just started to take those steps to clean up how I was eating. Some environmental factors, mold, parasites, heavy metals some adrenal insufficiency, you know, burning the candle at both ends.
[Page//00:03:59] And [Page//00:04:00] the LA you know, about nine months later, I started to feel better, like started to feel better. And I know a lot of women would think that's a long time. But for me, I thought I will do whatever it takes. Just gimme a game plan. I'll execute. So you tell me no gluten, no gluten, no dairy, a low histamine approach to eating.
[Page//00:04:21] And so, you know, the one piece that I. Kind of waited to clean up was the exercise piece. I was trying to really lose the baby weight with a lot of cardio. So I'd go to a spin class or I'd do two spin classes back to back,
[Page//00:04:35] Julie Michelson: Ugh.
[Page//00:04:35] Emily Kiberd: or I'd do like a spin class and then I'd walk across the street and do a hit class.
[Page//00:04:40] And so I was like the weight wasn't coming off. And I was also extremely, you know, tired for days after one
[Page//00:04:49] Julie Michelson: inflamed. Yes,
[Page//00:04:51] Emily Kiberd: And inflamed. Yes. Like I just felt like boggy all over. I know that's not a official medical term. And so I had a trainer working in my [Page//00:05:00] clinic. He's amazing. He was a trainer for 22 years, Matt, Emrick still a trainer.
[Page//00:05:04] And he's like, you know what? You sound like you are expending so much energy and why don't we just make it really, really simple. And we, he put me on a kettlebell resistance training program three days a week. 20 minutes. And my joints didn't hurt my muscles. Didn't ache. I felt better. And the weight started to come off and I was like, he's like, let's do this smarter.
[Page//00:05:28] Like what you're doing. Sounds exhausting. And. You know, I have a background in kettlebell training and, you know, a lot of people ask, well, why didn't you tap into that? And I think, you know, that cultural narrative of like do cardio lose weight has just been so ingrained. I used to do triathlons and marathons and half marathons, and I kind of just defaulted to that.
[Page//00:05:52] So I started to do that felt way better. Lost more weight by doing less. And I was [Page//00:06:00] co-treating patients with functional medicine doctors. So they were in New York city looking, you know, at the body from the inside. And they were sending those patients to me to build their muscle mass, get them strong and address the joint pain and muscle aches.
[Page//00:06:15] And that was really the birth of thyroid strong. Working with those women playing with what worked on me and finding, okay, what am I repeating over and over again? That just more women need to hear and can learn in a very simple way.
[Page//00:06:32] Julie Michelson: Amazing. I love that. And, and we do, we go to our default, right? If you were a runner and a triathlete, that's, that's what you're gonna go to it. It's like you know, we may know, you know, calories and calories out. Isn't really the thing, but that that's still you know, we have certain defaults. And again, I love that.
[Page//00:06:55] Then you were like, wow, there's a need for this. Like, it's not just, you. We could [Page//00:07:00] spend an hour just talking commiserating about, because I'm sure most listeners with thyroid issues had that similar experience of, you know, TSH, T H Ts H and you know, just really glad that you finally got your answers and, and if you're listening and, and.
[Page//00:07:19] You're like, oh, I tick those boxes, but I've been told for years, my thyroid's fine. Like make sure you're getting a full thyroid panel, including, you know, all the antibodies free T3, all, all the goodies.
[Page//00:07:34] Emily Kiberd: All the things. I mean, I think the especially important piece to that story is my Hashimotos went into remission. Luckily, because it was caught early before there was too much destruction in my thyroid gland. Was I on thyroid medication for a little bit, for maybe three to six months? Yes. But. You know, probably 18 months after starting the, you know, from getting diagnosed to starting the work and starting the protocols [Page//00:08:00] like remission.
[Page//00:08:01] So don't have symptoms, you know, blood work is optimal and you know, no presence of Throid antibodies and even through a second pregnancy. I stayed in remission, which I know for a lot of us, like pregnancy is a stressor on the body and we can get a flare above our Hashimoto symptoms, but even through a second pregnancy, I stayed in remission.
[Page//00:08:22] So I feel really grateful to listen to my gut, like walk the path, keep, I mean, even two functional medicine doctors before.
[Page//00:08:31] Julie Michelson: That's unheard. Like, I, I don't, I don't know that I've ever met a functional medicine doctor who doesn't do complete thyroid panels, so that's unbelievable, but that's also, it doesn't matter, you know what the shingle says. There are great thorough doctors in all walks. And, and, and some that aren't digging down as far as they need to.
[Page//00:08:56] So, yeah, but you, you continue to advocate for [Page//00:09:00] yourself and you didn't give up, most people would be like, well, you saw all these doctors already, so why would you go see another one? And so good for you. And, and that's an important message too, for everybody is to just keep looking.
[Page//00:09:14] Emily Kiberd: yeah. To really be your own advocate. Like, no, one's gonna take care of you except you. And no one has to live in your body except you. So if you don't feel good, keep
[Page//00:09:25] Julie Michelson: Yeah. And, and the other pet peeve is, and we all, most of us have gone through it. At least those of us that have kids that, you know, that whole, oh, you're a new mom. Like I wish no doctor would ever say that to anybody ever again. We know the difference between I'm tired. And I'm fatigued to the center of my bones.
[Page//00:09:48] It's completely different. And if, if you've experienced it, you can tell the difference away.
[Page//00:09:54] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. Yeah.
[Page//00:09:56] Julie Michelson: So let's dig into, I think everybody listening could be like, [Page//00:10:00] okay, you know, you you've got thyroid issues. You've got, Hashimotos clearly that over exercising that you were doing, you know, not the best approach. We, we can all relate to that.
[Page//00:10:12] And, and I see it all the time and, and I did it as well. As my health started to decline for me, it was more of a Like, I'm not giving up this thing. Like my RA had taken so much and it wasn't gonna take the physical activity that I loved. So I pushed and I pushed. But. I wanna get into most, I, I think most of us experience the opposite, right?
[Page//00:10:38] We're not over overdoing cardio we're being, or maybe we were, and then we go 180 and it's gentle and slow and told, gentle, stretching, do some yoga and, and full disclaimer. I love yoga. Like nobody's saying don't ever do yoga. But I wanna talk about the [Page//00:11:00] resistance training.
[Page//00:11:01] Emily Kiberd: Yeah.
[Page//00:11:02] Julie Michelson: you love yoga too. See, we, so we're not nobody's nobody's hating on yoga.
[Page//00:11:06] Yoga's great. Pilates is great. Like if you find these things that, that you enjoy and you love, I'm guessing you're not gonna say totally give them up. But we wanna get into why. That's not what you need and this idea of feeding muscle and resistance training. So let let's dig into to some of that.
[Page//00:11:27] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. I mean, I'll just put out there. I'm a yoga instructor. I taught yoga. You know, for 14 years in New York city in the corporate setting in yoga studios. So I too love yoga, you know, travel the world with what yoga tree treats probably got some parasites on those, but so if you frame the autoimmune condition around muscle tissue, muscle tissue being the largest endocrine organ in the body, what does that mean?
[Page//00:11:52] It means that when you contract muscle newer research, Shows that you secrete proteins Mykines cytokines [Page//00:12:00] and those things that you secrete can reduce inflammation can affect your hormone pro profile can affect your metabolism. So. It's kind of cool to think I can directly affect like the uptake of glucose into the muscle.
[Page//00:12:18] I can directly affect the inflammatory load in the body by contracting my muscle. So while yoga, Pilates, low impact exercise stretching is nice in theory with like not overdoing, you know, it for, from an adrenal perspective.
[Page//00:12:38] Julie Michelson: Right.
[Page//00:12:39] Emily Kiberd: You're not going to feed the muscle tissue in the way that you need, which is underload.
[Page//00:12:45] And so to get that stimulus, you need to pick up a heavy weight with amazing form and put it down and do it again. You need to hit this fatigue of, if it was on a scale of zero to [Page//00:13:00] 10, you need to kind of hit an eight. So by the last rep, You're thinking like if 10 is like, no way I can pick up this weight and eight is maybe I have two more reps in the tank.
[Page//00:13:12] So you have to hit that exertional point to get that muscle stimulation. You could probably do. You know, 20 Chos
[Page//00:13:24] Julie Michelson: I was. Totally what I was just thinking. She's gonna say chatter. Onga I know it.
[Page//00:13:28] Emily Kiberd: or you could do, you know, five floor presses with or, you know, like you could get that in a different way. And in terms of having an autoimmune condition specifically, A condition that has an underactive thyroid component. Like Hashimotos where there's slower tendon turnover. I would rather choose something that has a lower rep.
[Page//00:13:56] Whereas if I did 20 Chungs, I might predispose [Page//00:14:00] myself to tendon injury or an overuse injury. Because with high, with that hypothyroid component, you know, all our tissue is regenerating and replenishing throughout the day. When we have an underactive thyroid, you know, every metabolic process in the body, including our muscle tissue in our tendons needs thyroid hormone.
[Page//00:14:19] When we have a low thyroid, you know, low functioning thyroid, It just takes longer for that regeneration to happen. So, you know, a lot of women will complain like, oh my shoulders, like my bicep, you know, they won't say bicep tendon, but they'll point to the front of their shoulder or the knees, right. That infra pat teller, tendon, right.
[Page//00:14:40] Where the kneecap goes down into the little leg, they'll be like, oh, I don't wanna go get on the floor. Cause I'm afraid I won't be able to get back up. Cause my knee's ache. Well, that's that tendon aching. So it's important to create that strength and stability feed the muscle so that those tendons can be strong.[Page//00:15:00]
[Page//00:15:01] Julie Michelson: I love that. And I, I love I'm a visual learner. And so I'm like listening and I'm like, what? I just, the way you said that makes so much sense and I've never heard anybody just put it out there simply for us with, of course, if you think of all these processes are slower. Suppress thyroid, you know, with Hashi with even if it's not autoimmune.
[Page//00:15:27] And those with autoimmune, obviously we've got we're extra special. But that, just that visual of like, oh my gosh, of course your tissue's gonna regenerate slower. And, and You know, I, no, I don't wanna do 20 shotter and why should we, you know, there's this fine line again, between yes, we need to stress the muscle to, to strengthen.
[Page//00:15:51] But we don't need to stress the body to strengthen. And I, I love that differentiation.
[Page//00:15:57] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. I mean, even specifically the [Page//00:16:00] tendons, the tendons get stronger under load. There's no amount of stretching, massaging, rubbing, stimulating in that sense that's passive that can strengthen at tendon. The only way at tendon strengthens is when you put it on load. And I think, you know, another interesting kind of injury that women experience with Hashimotos.
[Page//00:16:24] It often picked up in menopause, menopause as frozen shoulder syndrome, where your arms kind of glued to your side and you can't wash your hair or comb your hair, even put your arm into a jacket. And there is, I think there's two research articles on it, where they took. People with known hypothyroidism and checked, like, what is the prevalence of frozen shoulder syndrome?
[Page//00:16:45] And, you know, so there's a correlation, same thing, like low thyroid. The tissue is kind of like getting contracted and now, you know, you can't put your arm in, in your, in your jacket. So, you know, that's [Page//00:17:00] another thing that comes up often. Menopause female. So, you know, anytime I, a patient comes to me and they have frozen shoulder, I'm like, oh, did you get a thyroid panel?
[Page//00:17:11] Full Throid panel? And usually it's no. And then usually I ask them to go ask their doctor for one, because the, the rehab is so long and brutal. Like you could do, you know, one to two years of rehab going three times a week.
[Page//00:17:26] Julie Michelson: Wow.
[Page//00:17:27] Emily Kiberd: And then it might get better. And then a lot of women will experience that on the other
[Page//00:17:30] Julie Michelson: other shoulder. Yeah, my
[Page//00:17:32] Emily Kiberd: is it the other
[Page//00:17:33] Julie Michelson: mom went through that. Yeah. Yep.
[Page//00:17:35] Emily Kiberd: Whereas if you got that thyroid component addressed, like if there was something that needed to be managed with medication, whatever. Healing would probably be faster. You know, sometimes women will go, they'll do manipulation under anesthesia where they put you wonder, and then they basically like tear the tissue.
[Page//00:17:54] And so yeah, like if anyone could never
[Page//00:17:58] Julie Michelson: so what we're [Page//00:18:00] talking about prevention here, right? Like, yes. There's obviously, if somebody already is experiencing it, like you said, you're, I love that you're sending them like, get a full thyroid panel. But this is preventative. Like we can all be strengthening and doing these things and, and that's, I love that you gave that example, cuz that is the one I think that most people would think like.
[Page//00:18:23] Well, they, they weren't stretching enough. So it got stuck, you know?
[Page//00:18:27] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. There's a lot of like cultural blame shame, like, whoa, what did I do? Like, and it's, well, maybe nothing, you know,
[Page//00:18:36] Julie Michelson: Wow. That is a amazing, so. When you, so you're, are you when you are working with people and they're coming to you with their stretching and or yoga routine, or maybe they're just walking? Cause I that's where we tell people to start, you know, is, is move right. Just start moving. What, [Page//00:19:00] what does that look like?
[Page//00:19:01] Are you, I know you said for you, it was 20 minutes a day, three days a week. But where do you have people start?
[Page//00:19:07] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. I mean, I start them, I do a movement assessment. I'm always looking at what is not moving enough, which I think listeners can understand. And then on the flip side, you also look at, okay, what is moving too much? Like too much movement is also not a good thing. And so. And I don't mean movement is in, like, you're not doing enough in your day.
[Page//00:19:27] I mean, movement is like from a joint perspective, is there too much range of motion? So we start there. Usually we take a history of like, okay, where, where are they starting in their exercise journey? Like, are they mainly just doing yoga or Pilates or stretching or walking, which, you know, walking is great from a cardiovascular perspective.
[Page//00:19:47] And then we get them. Pretty quickly on a resistance training program doing functional movements, we call 'em the essential seven. So it's a, a hinge like a deadlift, a squat, a push, a pull, a [Page//00:20:00] carry, like you're carrying groceries. And then an anti rotate. and you know, part of the assessment is looking, I check a bait and score on everyone.
[Page//00:20:07] And a Baen score is a physical therapy orthopedic test looking at nine points in the body to see if there's signs of hyper mobility. And why am I doing this? Because from a clinical aspect, looking at the autoimmune population from a movement and strength perspective, I have noticed clinically that a lot of the autoimmune population has this element of tissue laxity joint, hyper mobility, almost like the joints are kind of.
[Page//00:20:31] Lucy goosey and where it comes up and is really easy to see is in the knees hyperextending, like the knees traveling back behind the ankles. elbows. So for example, we go back to yoga. If you're always that person in yoga class, in down dog or at the top of a plank, and the instructor kind of comes over is like, put a little bend in your elbows, you know?
[Page//00:20:51] And you're like, oh, I thought my, our elbows were straight, but they're actually hyperextending. You can touch the your thumbed, the soft part of your forearm. And then if you could bend your [Page//00:21:00] pinky back beyond 90, and then the last point to check is if you had your feet together, knee straight, You just bent forward knees straight.
[Page//00:21:07] You could Palm the floor, which I know every yoga
[Page//00:21:10] Julie Michelson: wait a minute. Aren't we? What?
[Page//00:21:12] Emily Kiberd: the
[Page//00:21:12] Julie Michelson: Isn't that? The goal?
[Page//00:21:14] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. That's actually not normal. So
[Page//00:21:16] Julie Michelson: Oh, my gosh, you just totally made my day.
[Page//00:21:20] Emily Kiberd: I just broke every Yogi's heart right there.
[Page//00:21:22] Julie Michelson: Awesome.
[Page//00:21:23] Emily Kiberd: so those are those nine points for a bait and score. And I notice a lot of women with an autoimmune condition have that element of like the knees are hyperextending, the elbows hyperextending, they can Palm the floor, no big deal.
[Page//00:21:36] And so they don't need things that create more mobility. They need things that create strength and stability and joint integration. So. We go to those functional moves that you would do in life, like a hinge like carrying your groceries, you know, being able to push something, being able to pull something really basic moves.
[Page//00:21:57] You know, I think people, especially with this day and [Page//00:22:00] age of social media, it's like, okay, the sexy moves. It's like, you don't need the sexy move. Like the experts like. Yeah. The people who are experts in, in lifting, they do the basics consistently. That's the only difference is they do the basics consistently.
[Page//00:22:16] And so I wor you know, if the, if the, if the person I'm working with is more sedentary, it's working up to three days a week 20 minutes, you know, you, sometimes it's only, you know, starting out. Two days, 15 minutes, you know, whatever someone can do and meeting them where they're at. Usually I have them get a weight that they could press or push.
[Page//00:22:41] So that might be eight kilo, 10 kilo. And then I usually start, you know, especially in a dead lift, two 12 kilo bells, which is 50 pounds, which I know some listeners are like 50 pounds, but you need enough resistance to turn on the muscles. If it's too light, you're just gonna be. [Page//00:23:00] Standing up over extending your hips.
[Page//00:23:01] You're not gonna get any proprioceptive feedback to like give you feedback of where you are in time and space. So you need enough load to get things to turn on. And that's usually, you know, I start with 50 pounds. So
[Page//00:23:14] Julie Michelson: way more than a soup can
[Page//00:23:16] Emily Kiberd: yeah, that's where
[Page//00:23:17] Julie Michelson: right. Like
[Page//00:23:18] Emily Kiberd: know, I think there is a certain population of autoimmune women who like they can't get outta bed.
[Page//00:23:26] Julie Michelson: Right. Of
[Page//00:23:27] Emily Kiberd: Yeah, and that, and that could be their starting point, but I think,
[Page//00:23:30] Julie Michelson: body weight, you know, even just right, right. But we're, that's not
[Page//00:23:35] Emily Kiberd: But what if you did, so I'll, I'll counter that with like, what if you did instead of body weight? Cause actually like for example, body weight, squat is actually much harder than if you just did it with a little load to offset,
[Page//00:23:47] Julie Michelson: gotcha. Sure. Yeah.
[Page//00:23:49] Emily Kiberd: if you just did like one rep and then you parked it. And you took a walk like you took like a two minute like break and then you did two reps. And I know that's not, you know, for [Page//00:24:00] like professional lifters, that wouldn't be enough stimulus, but for the woman, who's very sedentary and deconditioned, that might be the starting place.
[Page//00:24:09] So,
[Page//00:24:10] Julie Michelson: And you answered. That was gonna be my next question of, because again, I'm going through like, okay, well what's in my data bank of, you know, 50 plus years on the planet. And you know, if you can only do a couple of reps, it's too heavy and you're saying not necessarily, that's not
[Page//00:24:29] Emily Kiberd: Yeah, cuz two reps will very soon, you know, it gives you a, the stimulus and the muscle memory. We'll just simply call it muscle memory. So that the next time you do it, it won't feel so foreign. You'll come back to it and you'll be like, okay. Yeah. Like this is the setup. This is where I breathe. This is how I sit my hips back.
[Page//00:24:47] This is how I pick it up. So maybe you come back the next time and it's like two reps. Take a minute break, three reps, take a two minute break. You know, I think that the other key here is, you know, oftentimes fitness, [Page//00:25:00] especially with the high intensity interval training. There's not a lot of rest. And when you look at people who are lifting heavier professional lifters, they do low reps, they do heavier weight, and then they take a three to five minute rest break.
[Page//00:25:15] If you go to a fitness class, there's no rest break until the, you know, the end of the 50 minutes. So I think it really, we have to, part of it is like changing the mindset of what our workout is. Quote, unquote, supposed to look like. You know, I think when I was younger, it was a good workout. Quote, unquote is there's a puddle of sweat
[Page//00:25:32] Julie Michelson: your butt. Yeah.
[Page//00:25:34] Emily Kiberd: in the face. I'm huffing and puffing and that's my good workout. And I think expecting that six days a week, three days a week is unreal. And now my workout is more to get me strong to energize me. It's not to break me down.
[Page//00:25:53] Julie Michelson: I love that. And I can see, you know, when we're. Addressing any [Page//00:26:00] kind of exercise with, especially Hashimotos, but any autoimmune because much like in your story, there's, there's typically some sort of an adrenal load issue going on. A and it just makes total, like, it's just so logical now that you said it of like, oh, but the rest break.
[Page//00:26:18] In between,
[Page//00:26:20] Emily Kiberd: We'll give you time to
[Page//00:26:21] Julie Michelson: we need that reset. We need that recovery and it doesn't have to be, you know, well, we're recovering for the next three days because we were red in the face with a puddle of sweat and our body, you know, it was just too much. So you mentioned, which of course makes also perfect. You know, form is so important, you're working with people and you're, you're guiding them and you're, I'm guessing correcting form as you go so that they can build that proper muscle memory.
[Page//00:26:50] You know, how, first of all, do, are you working just with people in person? Like where, where would somebody start and, and know that they're doing it [Page//00:27:00] right. Help us
[Page//00:27:01] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. I mean, the majority of people I work with now are online. And I think from working with people so much in person, Getting really good at queuing and getting people set up in the right quote unquote right. Position is really important. And you know, you can sit, you know, if you go back to like this yoga example, like if you can tell someone like trying to get them into Don dog, like, okay, so like, sit your hips towards the sky.
[Page//00:27:32] Lift your butt towards the sky, you know, like there's so many ways to say it and like, what's gonna click for someone, you know, what's gonna click for the majority. So after working with a lot of women, I'm like, okay, I know if I tell my women step your feet, like outer hip width, your toes. If there was a clock are gonna point to like one o'clock and 11 o'clock, you're gonna put your hands right in like your bikini line, hip crease.
[Page//00:27:57] and you're gonna sit your hips back and you're gonna fold your belly [Page//00:28:00] to your tops of your thighs. Like you're squishing your hands and that's your hinge like 95% of the time. It gets
[Page//00:28:06] Julie Michelson: You're gonna get it. right.
[Page//00:28:08] Emily Kiberd: Versus, you know, I mean, you'll, you'll hear trainers be like, okay. So like, like they won't tell you where to exactly.
[Page//00:28:15] Put your feet and they'll be like, okay. So like just sit back
[Page//00:28:18] Julie Michelson: Well, and even the
[Page//00:28:19] Emily Kiberd: get too Squatty,
[Page//00:28:20] Julie Michelson: specificity of outer hip width, because most of us, myself included. If I'm not consciously thinking about it when, when it from this is years of different classes, you know, if somebody says hip with I'm never actually hip with, I'm always in I'm, we're all, always tend to think our hips are
[Page//00:28:41] Emily Kiberd: Like a little
[Page//00:28:42] Julie Michelson: narrower than they are.
[Page//00:28:44] Maybe, and maybe it's just, cuz I've had three children. I dunno. So what, but just that queuing, like outer gets you to think like, okay really? Where are my feet? And I love the use of one and 11 cuz that's where my feet go anyway. So I like that.
[Page//00:28:59] Emily Kiberd: You know, [Page//00:29:00] and there's cues. So when you're picking up a weight, it's important to know how to build tension, to like recruit your own strength and power. So for example, a lot of women, when they press a bell overhead, or they're doing any push movements, they think mentally. This is an upper body movement.
[Page//00:29:20] My upper body's weak. Well, when you press something overhead, it's actually, you're recruiting all the way from your feet up your legs. You're squeezing your butt. You're breathing into your belly, you're bracing, and then the bell goes up. So it's actually a full body movement. And there's cues. You can give for example, foot dialing or which can be queued different ways, you know, like.
[Page//00:29:44] Feet or at that position, like outer hip width, one 11. And you're squeezing your heels, but you don't move your feet almost like you're screwing your feet into the floor. Like that will immediately you'll feel your quads turn on. You'll feel your butt squeeze [Page//00:30:00] you'll feel everything engaged. And that is what is part of helping lift heavier.
[Page//00:30:05] So like all, yeah. So all that power is in there. You just have to teach someone how to recruit that. Tension. So, you know, I'll start with women and they'll be like, oh, like 50 pound. Deadli like, they're scared, right? Like weights are scary. Kettle kettle balls. which people call 'em. But they're kettle bells are scary at first, but if you teach someone really quickly how to build that tension, like 50 pounds goes up really easy, really fast.
[Page//00:30:34] And they're like, okay, time for heavy weight, you know? So. Yeah. So I think that's the beauty of using weights. And I think it's also, you know, it has carryover into a mental state. Not only is there, like,
[Page//00:30:47] Julie Michelson: Well, yeah, we all, you know, especially everybody. Anyway, I mean, I have a daughter, you know, I, everybody needs to feel strong, but especially those that have been knocked down [Page//00:31:00] with autoimmune or hashies and, and there's. That's empowering. And that's why I do this is to help empower people. Why you do it?
[Page//00:31:09] You know, it, it, that's the key to, to creating wellness.
[Page//00:31:14] Emily Kiberd: Yeah, absolutely.
[Page//00:31:16] Julie Michelson: last question. I, I don't wanna keep you over time, but I'm like, I have this whole list of questions. And so I wanna make sure short of working with you. I, I guess I'm looking for like a, what not to do, cuz I could see me listening to this conversation and like running out to my gym to sign up for kettlebell class.
[Page//00:31:35] Right? Like You know, what, what would be, I guess, some mistakes listeners might make feeling really motivated. Like, ah, I'm gonna build muscle. I'm gonna do it. Like what, what should they not run out and do.
[Page//00:31:46] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. I think when you're holding a weight, when you're under load, you probably shouldn't be under load, especially if you're first learning more than 20 seconds. So like I've gone to workout [Page//00:32:00] classes and they're like, we're gonna do kettlebell swings for two minutes. Like, I've never done. Like I do 10, which is about 20 seconds.
[Page//00:32:08] And then I park the bell I break. So that like long in, you know, especially with more ballistic movements, like a kettlebell swing, like that's meant to be done in short doses, not for, you know, one to two minute periods of time. I think the other thing that's really common and was one of the things that I always have to retrain is when someone says, like, engage your.
[Page//00:32:29] Tighten your abs, like what does that actually mean? And as women, especially those who've gone to Pilates, they think. I'm going to pull my belly button into my spine. I'm going to suck in, I'm going to skinny my waist, and you don't wanna do that under load, cuz that will actually . We, it will decompress the, that intra abdominal pressure and that.
[Page//00:32:52] Natural core strength and what could actually, you know, give your disc herniation or back injury when you pick up a weight. So you [Page//00:33:00] want to learn how to breathe down and wide. And then on the exhale, you want to learn how to like, keep that tension that brace. Like as if you had a little tank of strength in your core.
[Page//00:33:11] And so, yeah, I think that's a, that's like one of the number one things I always have to retrain is like, when you pick up a weight, don't suck your belly in which I get a lot of women that are like, wait, I'm not supposed to do that. So I think those would be the, the two biggest things. And I think the third thing is.
[Page//00:33:30] We get power. So, you know, oftentimes we are told to exhale on the exertional part. Like if you did a bicep curl, it's right on the bending of the elbow. So especially with kettlebells, especially when you're teaching someone to recruit their own, their own tension. If you have someone do an audible exhale, they will be able to access that brace.
[Page//00:33:55] Sometimes you see people, they like inhale. And then they pull the [Page//00:34:00] weight and they're like, like, they're blowing through a
[Page//00:34:04] Julie Michelson: a little
[Page//00:34:05] Emily Kiberd: right? Yeah. Like it's just, there's no like power to it and you really want to access your own power. So when I have people do it, it's inhale. Exhale, sh. To like really that audible aspect really helps you find your brace in your core.
[Page//00:34:22] So I think one of the other, which, you know, some women in a workout class might be like, okay, I'm gonna look like that person. Who's really breathing really loud. Yes. Be that person because it will make you stronger and it will help you protect your back. So you don't injure yourself.
[Page//00:34:36] Julie Michelson: I love that that's, that's amazing advice and, and things to look for. So how, how can I, and I, I do think it's so important. to, to have those ideas of this may not be the class for me. You know, if they're doing a a, a five minute, you know, arms, whatever it is, like, you just, just [Page//00:35:00] heat this advice because it is worth lots of gold.
[Page//00:35:04] Tell me a little more about how listeners can work with you or tap into your knowledge and E.
[Page//00:35:12] Emily Kiberd: Yeah. So I have a program called thyroid strong two versions, intermediate six weeks for people who have picked up a weight before, but maybe haven't done it in a while. And then there's a 12 week program for people who've never picked up a weight for those people who are deconditioned or just more, you know, more sedentary.
[Page//00:35:30] And so that's called thyroid strong. And it's super fun. Cuz if you think about how many times have you done a group program or a challenge and people are getting results. Like a lot of women come in doing like beach body. They're just like, I'm not getting the results. Like everyone else. It's like, okay, well, your body's a little different.
[Page//00:35:48] You have an autoimmune condition. Like everyone in thyroid strong Hashimotos and, you know, we experience similar things like squats and lunges really hard. Like they're [Page//00:36:00] just hard going back to that, that tendon aspect. And so you have to modify and people have questions. And so it's nice that like everyone's on the same page and speaking the same language and it's just a really great community of women.
[Page//00:36:12] And yeah, that can be found at dremilykiberd.com and it's @dremilykiberd across all the social platforms, including TikTok
[Page//00:36:21] Julie Michelson: again, oh, check her out on TikTok.
[Page//00:36:25] Emily Kiberd: And Instagram. Yeah.
[Page//00:36:26] Julie Michelson: I, that you, I love that. You just answer all my questions before I ask them a. And all the links are, are gonna be included in the show notes. But I do always ask cuz I like to listen on the go. And so now people know where to find you. What is one step that listeners can take today, starting today to start to improve their health?
[Page//00:36:48] It could be anything,
[Page//00:36:50] Emily Kiberd: Anything. Ugh.
[Page//00:36:51] Julie Michelson: I know.
[Page//00:36:52] Emily Kiberd: I would prioritize protein intake, minimum 30 grams per meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, which is basically. [Page//00:37:00] Muscle tissue grow your muscle tissue. Cause how you eat can affect your muscle tissue. And that's a beautiful thing. So yeah. Start, start your day with protein. Try and hit 30 grams minimum.
[Page//00:37:14] Julie Michelson: I love that. And that was one of the things I wanted to get into and, and talk about how do we, you know, feed ourselves to, to build muscle. And, and. Protein intake is so important. So I love that you went there. And we could talk about that for 10 more minutes, but I promised I wouldn't keep you too long this morning.
[Page//00:37:33] So I am so, so grateful for the just amazing knowledge and tips that you've shared with listeners really, really appreciate.
[Page//00:37:44] Emily Kiberd: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
[Page//00:37:46] Julie Michelson: For everyone listening. Remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
[Page//00:37:57] I'll see you next week.
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Emily Kiberd
Dr Emily Kiberd is a chiropractor, mama to Elvis and Brookly and the creator of Thyroid Strong, a workout program for women with Hashimoto's to learn how to work out without the burnout. She put her own Hashimoto's into remission and now helps women do the same through lifestyle changes, getting to the root cause, and learning how to work out for their body.
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