Episode 49
Tsao Lin Moy:
Transforming Health through Chinese Medicine
In this episode we talk about Chinese Medicine and how it holds the truth that the body has the natural ability to heal. With autoimmunity and fertility struggles on the rise, it seems important to connect those dots and share how Chinese Medicine can help with both, and so much more. That is why I asked my friend Tsao Lin Moy to share how Chinese Medicine can help us all live long and feel well.
First Aired on: Aug 22, 2022
Episode 49
Tsao Lin Moy:
Transforming Health through Chinese Medicine
In this episode we talk about Chinese Medicine and how it holds the truth that the body has the natural ability to heal. With autoimmunity and fertility struggles on the rise, it seems important to connect those dots and share how Chinese Medicine can help with both, and so much more. That is why I asked my friend Tsao Lin Moy to share how Chinese Medicine can help us all live long and feel well.
First Aired on: Aug 22, 2022
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In today's episode, Tsao shares the basics of Chinese Medicine, and how they contrast with the Western Medicine approach by focusing on wellness and integration, instead of illness. We talk about how it is a spiritual medicine that is individualized, and how the 8 branches all need to be integrated for wellness.
Tsao shares her journey that has led her to specialize in Chinese Medicine for the past twenty years, and how her fertility protocols help couples conceive naturally.
Even if fertility is the last thing on your mind...listen in, this applies to us all!
Eastern Medicine:
The body has the natural ability to heal
Health is a transformation
We are regenerative beings
Spiritual medicine - individual
Western Medicine:
Many illness are irreversible and medication will be needed lifelong
Health is transactional
We are degenerative and expected to decline with age
Standardized care...prescription for diagnosis model
The Eight Branches of Chinese Medicine are ...accupuncture, body work, herbal medicine, food, exercise, mindfulness, feng shui, and astrology.
Integrative!!!
Quote from Tsao: "You are your best doctor!"
Awareness is key in health and healing. The body is giving us information we need to create balance.
Tsao shares the 7 year cycle and how it relates to us being regenerative beings...always growing and recreating.
Reframing is powerful!
When you experience symptoms, think of it as the process of getting well.
In Chinese Medicine, Autoimmunity is a sign that the nervous system needs to regulate itself. It is an indication that the adrenals are out of balance and anxiety and overthinking is occurring, and the heart and small intestine need attention.
Similarly, it is common when there are fertility struggles to end up in the overthinking/stress loop, which exacerbates the difficulties.
Start at least 6 months to one year ahead to create the level of health that is optimal for carrying a baby.
It is important to create a lifestyle that is stable and reduces inflammation.
Start with real food, stress management, digestive health, probiotics, reducing toxic load and especially exposure to micro-plastics and other endocrine disrupting compounds.
What to do:
Increase your mind body connection.
1 - Breath work - Tsao likes Wim Hof's guided breathing exercise.
2 - Lymph massage - the big 6 which only takes a few minutes to get your system moving.
Breathe and move! Breathe and move! Breathe and move!
Find a practice that incorporates both.
Tsao shares her journey that has led her to specialize in Chinese Medicine for the past twenty years, and how her fertility protocols help couples conceive naturally.
Even if fertility is the last thing on your mind...listen in, this applies to us all!
Eastern Medicine:
The body has the natural ability to heal
Health is a transformation
We are regenerative beings
Spiritual medicine - individual
Western Medicine:
Many illness are irreversible and medication will be needed lifelong
Health is transactional
We are degenerative and expected to decline with age
Standardized care...prescription for diagnosis model
The Eight Branches of Chinese Medicine are ...accupuncture, body work, herbal medicine, food, exercise, mindfulness, feng shui, and astrology.
Integrative!!!
Quote from Tsao: "You are your best doctor!"
Awareness is key in health and healing. The body is giving us information we need to create balance.
Tsao shares the 7 year cycle and how it relates to us being regenerative beings...always growing and recreating.
Reframing is powerful!
When you experience symptoms, think of it as the process of getting well.
In Chinese Medicine, Autoimmunity is a sign that the nervous system needs to regulate itself. It is an indication that the adrenals are out of balance and anxiety and overthinking is occurring, and the heart and small intestine need attention.
Similarly, it is common when there are fertility struggles to end up in the overthinking/stress loop, which exacerbates the difficulties.
Start at least 6 months to one year ahead to create the level of health that is optimal for carrying a baby.
It is important to create a lifestyle that is stable and reduces inflammation.
Start with real food, stress management, digestive health, probiotics, reducing toxic load and especially exposure to micro-plastics and other endocrine disrupting compounds.
What to do:
Increase your mind body connection.
1 - Breath work - Tsao likes Wim Hof's guided breathing exercise.
2 - Lymph massage - the big 6 which only takes a few minutes to get your system moving.
Breathe and move! Breathe and move! Breathe and move!
Find a practice that incorporates both.
Other Resources:
Connect with Tsao Lin Moy
Episode Transcript
[Page//00:00:00] Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today I'm joined by Cho Lynn Moy, alternative and Chinese medicine expert and founder of integrative healing arts NYC, where she helps couples conceive naturally using her fertility protocols and Chinese medicine.
[Page//00:00:56] Our conversation today is an introduction to Chinese [Page//00:01:00] medicine as a regenerative approach to wellness and a focus on healthspan not lifespan. Listen in to find out why Cho says you are your best doctor and why it's so important to manage your thoughts, whether you're trying to conceive or simply support your best health. Cho, welcome to the podcast!
[Page//00:01:20] Tsao Lin-Moy: Oh, thank you for having me, Julie.
[Page//00:01:23] Julie Michelson: I am excited for our conversation. I cannot wait to share you with my audience. I know listeners are gonna get so much value out of this.
[Page//00:01:35] Tsao Lin-Moy: awesome. Awesome.
[Page//00:01:37] Julie Michelson: So I have so many things I wanna ask you, but I love to start just to give listeners a feel for you of, you know, how did you become interested in Chinese medicine or decide to, you know, practice Chinese medicine and specialize in helping women, you know, naturally improve [Page//00:02:00] fertility.
[Page//00:02:02] Tsao Lin-Moy: Great question so yeah, Chinese medicine is not necessarily, you know, something that, you know, it's not on the, the, the list of let's say occupations, you know, to choose when you're at school. And I would have to say, I mean, I, I was in business before. so I've had several incarnations but one of the things is, is the, the big part of it is the paradigm of it.
[Page//00:02:29] The philosophy that is in east Asian medicine. and really the idea that you are helping a person to heal themselves, right? That we are, we have this natural ability and it's, you know, what Chinese medicine or east Asian medicine is about transformation and not transaction. Right. So the idea is that you're not gonna be on herbs for life or medication for life.
[Page//00:02:59] [Page//00:03:00] That you are able to regenerate yourself. And so I gotta look at like Western medicine. So I grew up in a family in Western medicine and it, you know, the science part of it, the, that was interesting. But the idea that, you know, people are sick and once they're sick, they really never get better. And unless they're taking medication.
[Page//00:03:24] So there there's a, an, an idea which is very different where, you know, the Western model is kind of a degenerative medicine versus regenerative. And, you know, you cut yourself and you're able to, you know, your, your body actually will heal it. Right. It will close up the wound. And so. This is why would we say like in certain cases, oh, it'll never change.
[Page//00:03:47] Cause we're always in this process of, of change and evolving and really getting well, not like not getting sicker. And so philosophically with Chinese [Page//00:04:00] medicine, we're looking at their eight branches that include not just acupuncture, but body work herbal medicine. Food food medicine, food theory exercise mindfulness, like a, a kind of a meditation.
[Page//00:04:16] We also have a fun Shui, which is looking at your environment in, in the flow of energy and then also astrology, right? Like this is like, we are part of the cosmos and it's a spiritual medicine, right? It's not a religion. It's a spiritual. And it's about the individual kind of helping themselves to be better.
[Page//00:04:43] And so this is a really, it resonates, you know, it resonates with me that
[Page//00:04:47] Julie Michelson: Yes, it does.
[Page//00:04:48] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you may need help. Yes. And, and, and it's not to say that Western medicine isn't helpful in life saving. It's just that model. That's their [Page//00:05:00] really kind of like their only model of like, oh, you needed us because you weren't able to overcome your situation.
[Page//00:05:07] And therefore you're almost like a disabled person. That'll always need this, you know, once you got to this point, then, you know, like no hope, right. So. in east Asian medicine. It's really like you, the, the idea is you're always working in a practice like this practice of getting better practice of consciousness and mind, body connection, right?
[Page//00:05:33] Cause when we're aware of our of our body, our mind, our thoughts, our energy, we can do something about it. If we don't, we say like, oh, I don't even know, like with, with women, I, I find like, oh, where are you in your cycle? They're like, oh, I don't know. I have to check my phone. It's kind of like, how is this electronic object knows more about you than you know about yourself.
[Page//00:05:57] It's actually, you know, happening in your body [Page//00:06:00] that, you know, and, and so you start to see the, the difference of almost like outsourcing all of your parts. To someone else or something else. And that's really causes like this. We call like a cognitive dissonance or like feeling like you're disassociated from your own self.
[Page//00:06:23] And you know, one of the things, I mean, maybe this is kind of like a, a different kind of conversation. Is that the more the technology we start to see the more of this kind of aloneness. And not really feeling connected, even though we have connection, right. But not, not even the connection with ourselves.
[Page//00:06:45] Right. And so really that me is really like, you are your own doctor. You're your best doctor, right. You're going to, I can't tell you how you feel, you know, how you feel. you share it with me, how you feel, [Page//00:07:00] and I can try and help you to feel better. Right. And so it, the it's a collaboration also. It's, it's not a power differential, it's not a hierarchy.
[Page//00:07:10] Right. And that's the, you know, when we look at the, the Western we're looking at the health model also is the idea that there's this hierarchy, someone has more power than you over your health destiny. And so getting back to how did I end up, you know, being attracted to it is really like something that is for the rest of your, of my life that I can be studying this medicine because there's thousands and thousands of years of, of evidence, of cases of really learning from the natural world.
[Page//00:07:48] Without, you know, like, you know, like. Real evidence of people who were very ill or had problems. And these are different kinds of solutions, [Page//00:08:00] right? It's also a, not a one size fits all. It's really different tenants and guidelines to look at. Right. And so that's also, you need to always be working as a practitioner to make yourself better in order to help your patient.
[Page//00:08:18] Julie Michelson: Amazing growth opportunity for you.
[Page//00:08:22] Tsao Lin-Moy: Well, yeah. Other, yeah, because I always wanna get better. I
[Page//00:08:24] Julie Michelson: of course, of
[Page//00:08:26] Tsao Lin-Moy: you know?
[Page//00:08:27] Julie Michelson: that's. Grow, always growing and healing and changing and learning and, you know, expanding you, you hit on so many things I, I wanna dive into. But I, I wanna just highlight, I mean, things, the things that I said, you know, we've never talked about Chinese medicine before on the podcast.
[Page//00:08:48] Yay. But, and, and so somebody who's completely unfamiliar. Probably is sitting there thinking, well, these are the things Julie's always talking about on the podcast, [Page//00:09:00] right? It it's, it's this difference of, you know, yes. Not only can we heal, we're created to heal and the difference in approaches and models.
[Page//00:09:12] And I always say, you know, God forbid I need emergency surgery. I am going to a Western trained acute care. Surgeon which you may have a different take on, but I think that's what it's really designed for and what it's good at. And the rest is tends to be a disservice to
[Page//00:09:31] Tsao Lin-Moy: Correct. It's not, it's not, it's actually, it's being, it's being used inappropriately, right? So it's like every time you go to an emergency room and what are you gonna get emergency medicine. And those medicines are really for are, are life saving, right? They get you from being going one direction to go the other direction, but then that's
[Page//00:09:55] Julie Michelson: But then, then what
[Page//00:09:56] Tsao Lin-Moy: And then what so, so the idea is you wanna never get to that. You, [Page//00:10:00] you wanna avoid getting to that place by, you know, being responsible for your health, for the choices you make. And that means you know, making sure to educate yourself to cut through all of the the information that's, you know that is.
[Page//00:10:21] Driven by industries that also are able to kind of say things that may not really be true. So it's important for everybody to take charge of their, you know, of educating themselves.
[Page//00:10:37] Julie Michelson: And I love that, that you say that I wanted to circle back to that. And then, and another one other, at least one other point that you made as far as and it is the model. Most of us grew up in. Right. The doctor has all the answers we go for the fix and, and people tend to get into this cycle of, you know, they, they [Page//00:11:00] want the pill.
[Page//00:11:00] They, they believe like that's the answer, go get a pill go. The doctor will fix you. Don't be disrespectful. Don't question the doctor don't, you know, and, and you and I spend our time saying like, no, no, it's you, this is your body.
[Page//00:11:16] Tsao Lin-Moy: You know, that that's the thing is when, you know, someone will, or like a test is like a sentence and, oh, that means this. Because we're always in this state of movement and growth and shifting, right. We gen we regenerate our, our, you know, our whole body is we get completely new cells.
[Page//00:11:41] Like every single cell in our body gets you know, regenerated or replaced. Over a certain period of time. Usually they say a seven year cycle, which interestingly is one of the cycles in Chinese medicine that they talk about growth cycles, you know, from zero to, you know, your reproductive [Page//00:12:00] cycle, you know, like, and they, they tend to be the like in alignment with, let's say hormonal shift.
[Page//00:12:07] And surges that bring, you know, puberty on and bring on adulthood and then being able to, you know, hold a baby and then later on into menopause, right? So we look at different stages of growth and development. And so it's very ni from that perspective, we look at the, you know, the ancients we're looking at, oh, by the age of seven or so, you know, the baby teeth fall out and you get the adult teeth.
[Page//00:12:34] And then the hair actually grows in, you know, like kids usually have like very thin and then they get to a certain age and you see that they start to grow and their, their voice changes and then menarchy, you know, comes up. And so you start to look at the energy. Or they're cheat, they're life force.
[Page//00:12:51] What is it at different stages? And that's the physiological and neurological development. Right. And, and in [Page//00:13:00] terms of you know, learning and experiencing the world and getting that feedback. So very much so the ancients looked at that as well and were like, oh, there are different stages. That occur or, or, or let's say surges, right?
[Page//00:13:16] Like growth spurs and, and evolution evolving. So we always have that ability. It doesn't really stop. It might slow down a little bit. Like we don't have to keep growing talk like that. That kind of okay. We're, we're good. We're, you know, if we've reached a certain height or, but the rest of it is all a matter of really.
[Page//00:13:36] You know, making sure everything's working really well. And when it's not to do something about it, you know, to repair it,
[Page//00:13:45] Julie Michelson: and that's right into that regenerative,
[Page//00:13:50] Tsao Lin-Moy: right. We have the capacity to regenerate right. Every day we do. But once we get an interruption or something happens, it's, it's not the, the [Page//00:14:00] symptoms. Or, or when we experience, we call illness. And I'm, I'm looking at a new, looking at it from a new re like a reframe of when you experience those symptoms, which everyone calls getting sick.
[Page//00:14:13] If we look at it as more as like getting, well, your body is in the process of getting well, which means. spiking a fever to push out an infection, right? So we always look at it as, oh, that's a bad thing. We're getting signal. Actually, your body is helping itself to get, well, it's doing this thing, which may be, feel unpleasant, but you have to look at, oh, it's serving a purpose and we need to help it along.
[Page//00:14:46] Not suppress it, just like, okay, something else is going on. And. The beauty with Chinese medicine, we look at the whole pattern. It's not just like, oh, I have a stomach problem. The problem, my stomach, oh, I have digestive [Page//00:15:00] issues. I ha like constipation diarrhea that if that's the problem is the intestines, like actually there's a systemic thing going on because that's where you're identifying symptoms and the inflammation.
[Page//00:15:16] But we've gotta look at where did it begin? Yeah, it's, it's part of a full on something else as a trigger, you know? So this is the, the, the, the starting point where it's alerting us, but it's more than just the symptom.
[Page//00:15:31] Julie Michelson: I, I love that. And I there's if I, if we circled back to everything I wanted to hit on, we would be here for three hours. But, but this idea that I, I wanna circle all the way back cuz you, you just. Brought it up again about awareness, right? About this disconnect that, that we have from our bodies. I see this, especially in the autoimmune community, I think in general, because of like you mentioned [Page//00:16:00] technology and society, you know, and, and, and but then especially once people are experiencing symptoms, And it, it's almost like it becomes a survival skill to, to disconnect, right.
[Page//00:16:15] To, you know, I'm not gonna focus on the pain and especially if you're in that mindset of there's nothing I can do about it. Anyway. A and so it's so important. I, I say it all the time, you know, you symptoms are information like that. That's your body is telling you something. So do you have them trick question here, but like, what is a way that, that, you know, you help people reconnect?
[Page//00:16:41] Like, do you have a recommendation for
[Page//00:16:43] Tsao Lin-Moy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, one of the most, the, the best things for people that are exp that have autoimmune conditions, right? We know that stress is a huge factor, right? And so that [Page//00:17:00] is the nervous system that needs to regulate itself. And so I will look at we look at their adrenals. And from there, we're looking at their, you know, they're experiencing anxiety, right?
[Page//00:17:13] Cause that is actually in Chinese medicine. We're looking at this connection between the heart and the small intestine. Right. And anxiety. When we're looking at the mind, not the brain, we're looking at those like thoughts of worry and overthinking things. And so what happens is when someone is experiencing.
[Page//00:17:32] You know, inflammation and they don't know where it's coming from, then it starts the, like, what did I do? What is it, what did I eat? What did I, and, and then lots and lots of overthinking and more stress, which then in turn, like creates that vicious cycle. And so looking at eliminating things that, well, first identifying stuff, That is like a source of, and, and eliminating it.
[Page//00:17:59] And I [Page//00:18:00] mean, not just like food stuff, like there, there are definitely guidelines. You just need to like eliminate lots of things that are inflammatory. Just move them out, give your body a break, simplify it. So you're not overloading it. Right. And then the other thing too is, you know, there are people that are triggers certain situations to be addressed.
[Page//00:18:24] Like, and you know, oftentimes there are big events like moving or a new job, or, you know, someone becomes really ill or having a child or, you know, children going away to school getting married, getting divorced, like they're all of those things. And then, you know, this other one, they say said there are 10 big things like moving.
[Page//00:18:45] And so, but also. I think they need to put on the list is infertility because the, the many of the, the patients that I see, one of the biggest things that's going on is they're so stressed out because [Page//00:19:00] it's not happening. And so very similar, the, there is this aspect of not knowing what's going on. Why is it not working?
[Page//00:19:08] It really should work. I'm doing everything right. There's this aspect of perfectionism. Like, I, I there's like a chapter in my book where I talk about perfectionism and I am definitely certain that, you know, when someone has a autoimmune condition where they'll have like flare ups, Random flare ups or, or they're so far away from, let's say what the trigger was for it.
[Page//00:19:36] That it becomes like a, kinda like a source of paranoia or, or posttraumatic stress because it's like, you never know when it's gonna come. And then there's this idea of like, oh my God, if I get on the train, like in New York, I have patients like, oh, I'm afraid if I take the train. And it stops in the tunnel or there's a delay and I'll be stuck there.
[Page//00:19:56] And if I have it, like, if something happens and as they think [Page//00:20:00] about that, then they start to experience it. So really understanding how important it is to manage what we think. Right. Because there is the mind body connection, whether you believe it or not.
[Page//00:20:17] Julie Michelson: Right.
[Page//00:20:17] Tsao Lin-Moy: Whether, whether you want to admit it or not.
[Page//00:20:21] And the thing is is that then you really need to manage your thoughts and that's, that's a big part. And, and one of them, it also is like, oh, I'm never gonna get better. And what I have to say. And this is something that the more, I I've learned more about this doing you know, studying in this, you know, doctorate that I'm working on was, you know, with alternative and complimentary medicine that a lot of Western trained doctors, first of all, they're not trained in that.
[Page//00:20:55] There could be something else, like why don't you have your patient? They may say, oh, lose [Page//00:21:00] weight, or, you know, do this. They don't really have the tools to help somebody. They may not know, you know, how to personalize. They don't have the time because of the model. But off also, they don't believe that people can change and it is hard to do that.
[Page//00:21:20] So they may not even say like, Hey, listen, I want you. To see a person, this is what you're gonna need to do. And then you come back to me or we're gonna put you on medication for now. However, you are gonna need to do these other things. Often is this write the prescription, or they'll say, you're gonna take this medication, the rest of your life.
[Page//00:21:45] And, and I would hear this more and more with patients that are a little bit older, you know, in their fifties, early sixties. You, a lot of women that pass through that are going transitioning in through menopause. They'll have you know, palpitations or [Page//00:22:00] the, the, not just the hot flashes, but other, other things going on, right.
[Page//00:22:03] Their chemistry changes. And cholesterol, a little high here or there. And then they get into that funnel of, oh, you're you're this age, you're female. You've got this, you've got that. And then all of a sudden they're on three or four medications. Huh? And they will say, you're gonna need to take this the rest of your life.
[Page//00:22:25] This is not the first time I've heard this. I think I
[Page//00:22:28] Julie Michelson: please. I was told that in my thirties.
[Page//00:22:31] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah. And, but the thing is, is that's not true. That is from the perspective of you know, pharmaceutical companies perspective of when they do the clinical trials, where they're only following people for, you know, maybe up to a year after.
[Page//00:22:46] Right. And for specific things,
[Page//00:22:48] Julie Michelson: Well, and if you're not address, look, if you just start a medication. And then stop it. You're gonna be where you were in the beginning versus we're [Page//00:23:00] talking about doing other things in the
[Page//00:23:02] Tsao Lin-Moy: need to do something else. Yeah,
[Page//00:23:04] Julie Michelson: the causes.
[Page//00:23:05] Tsao Lin-Moy: I mean, things like obesity. Oh my gosh. And like the, the heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, like these are like,
[Page//00:23:12] Julie Michelson: they're also reversible.
[Page//00:23:15] Tsao Lin-Moy: They are reversible. And the thing is, is that, but if you don't believe that you can do anything about it and you go somewhere and they say, well, the only thing you can do is take this medication.
[Page//00:23:27] And there's no guidance of like, if you, if you want a better, because even taking medication, people have a very poor quality of life.
[Page//00:23:35] Julie Michelson: right.
[Page//00:23:35] Tsao Lin-Moy: And so that we're talking about is not just. Living longer, we're looking at longevity. And that's a, that's a practice in, in Chinese medicine. We're looking at health and wellness, longevity, meaning you're living long and healthy lives.
[Page//00:23:51] Or we, we call it like a health span, not a lifespan. Right. But like it like your health, what are you doing every [Page//00:24:00] day? You make a choice of what you're going to. These are the things no, one's forcing you to eat certain ways and yet people believe they don't have a choice. Right. That, that, that the only thing they can do because there's missing information.
[Page//00:24:17] And unfortunately, a lot of physicians, I mean, it's true. It's very hard for people to make changes, especially with diet, right. It's I think there is
[Page//00:24:26] Julie Michelson: why there are coach. I joke all the time. If it were easy, there wouldn't be coaches. Like there's a reason I have a job.
[Page//00:24:32] Tsao Lin-Moy: There's a reason. Right. And the thing is, is that, you know, changing someone's diet is like asking them to change the religion. It's very much ingrained in their system of reward, emotionally emotional attachment to it. There's so much to
[Page//00:24:48] Julie Michelson: So much to it, which goes back to that, managing your thoughts. You know, we were TA you were talking about it as far as, you know, stress cycles, right. Getting into that, that
[Page//00:24:59] Tsao Lin-Moy: It's [Page//00:25:00] more than that. It's it's really like EV yeah.
[Page//00:25:03] Julie Michelson: I woke up this morning and I said, I, I woke up and I said, oh, I'm tired. And then I CA I like caught.
[Page//00:25:13] I was like, oh, I'm not starting the day. That way. I, I looked over and I said, no, I just haven't had a surge of energy yet. cause I caught, I was like, that is not, I am not setting myself up to have a day where I
[Page//00:25:29] Tsao Lin-Moy: tired, tired. Right. And he could, I mean, he'd say like, oh, I, I, I feel tired. I have to be mindful like tick to make sure to, you know, manage my energy today and I need to adjust, you know, some of my, the things so I can help myself. Right.
[Page//00:25:46] Julie Michelson: am also doing those things, but for me, you know, I, I say I change your thoughts, change your life, right? Like that's. And so also our body hears every thought we [Page//00:26:00] have, whether it's
[Page//00:26:01] Tsao Lin-Moy: Body actually tells us our thoughts too,
[Page//00:26:04] Julie Michelson: I, yeah. But so, you know, I could convince myself like I'm going to be tired all day. Well, no, I don't wanna do that.
[Page//00:26:11] Let's not, let's change that story right now. And then, like you said, take the actions to, to manage, you know?
[Page//00:26:20] Tsao Lin-Moy: Sure.
[Page//00:26:20] Julie Michelson: and, and so I. It's so powerful, but I wanna circle all the way
[Page//00:26:28] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely,
[Page//00:26:30] Julie Michelson: on each thing.
[Page//00:26:31] Tsao Lin-Moy: yeah, but it's good that you actually noticed that you were like, wait a second, because oftentimes people hear the it's the voice and then you go, okay, what do you wanna do with it?
[Page//00:26:43] Julie Michelson: yeah.
[Page//00:26:44] Tsao Lin-Moy: telling you, it's giving you information and you be like, oh, thank you for letting me know that, that, but then, then you're like, okay, now I can do something versus like, okay, I'm zombie today.
[Page//00:26:55] Right?
[Page//00:26:55] Julie Michelson: Yeah. And, and, you know, for me, my, one of my answers [Page//00:27:00] is, and I, you just saw where I live. I'm go, I will spend extra time barefoot outside today between appointments because that's one of my favorite recharges. And, and. But it it's just so, so powerful. And I know sometimes I get the eye roll.
[Page//00:27:17] When we talk about mindset and the power of your thoughts. I, I say this, I, I did start my healing journey before I fully believed I could. But if, if you work on. The, the mindset first it's like exponentially, the body can just then do what it's supposed to do so much easier. I wanna, I wanna touch on this cuz there is such an overlap and I know you see it in your practice and I see it in mind.
[Page//00:27:48] This. Really kind of common issue with fertility challenges for women with autoimmunity? I, you know, I think the, the [Page//00:28:00] numbers are, I don't know the numbers, but, but I know they're high. A and I wanna dig in a little more into when I was younger. I thought I was, I mean, I guess when we have something we want and we don't get it right away, we think we get into that thinking there's a problem.
[Page//00:28:18] And so it had, it took me some time to, to get pregnant when I was young in hindsight it totally makes sense now that I know I wasn't healthy, even though, you know,
[Page//00:28:30] Tsao Lin-Moy: But when you say time, when you say time, I want like, what's
[Page//00:28:33] Julie Michelson: no, it wasn't. It took me. I was, I was in my 20, early 20 in my twenties and it took me two years.
[Page//00:28:41] Tsao Lin-Moy: Okay.
[Page//00:28:41] Julie Michelson: Which at the time, so again, it's all relative, right?
[Page//00:28:44] For me at that time, it seemed like, you know, I started getting into that mindset of, you know, oh my gosh, what's wrong? Why can't I get pregnant? What, you know, everywhere you look, there's a pregnant person. , you know, that it that's. [Page//00:29:00] And that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about women.
[Page//00:29:04] You know, perhaps older women with autoimmunity, although I already had, I just didn't know it yet. Women, I know you specialize in, you know, women over 40, right? Like
[Page//00:29:13] Tsao Lin-Moy: Or, or late. Well, now it's really like, because women younger and younger are, are really coming through. Well, I don't really, so here's the thing. I don't know if they're having problems. Like in, like when they come, they're like, oh, I've been trying. How long have you been trying? Oh, six months.
[Page//00:29:33] Julie Michelson: Right.
[Page//00:29:34] Tsao Lin-Moy: And if you are, are, you know, attempting to get prep, but you have all this other stuff, I kind of feel like it doesn't count. It doesn't count because you're not you're, you know, oftentimes, I mean, not that it doesn't count, count, but there's like all this inflammation in their system. And, you know, realistically, if the, if the, the field is clear and then you're you know, trying to get PR like [Page//00:30:00] you're, you're actually knowing when the fertile
[Page//00:30:03] Julie Michelson: have to be in touch with your body,
[Page//00:30:05] Tsao Lin-Moy: Right. Your partner, have your, has your partner been checked? Cause so a lot of like, we've been trying to, well, has your partner been checked? No. No, he hasn't been checked. Okay. So I, I don't really consider that. Like,
[Page//00:30:16] Julie Michelson: That doesn't count. I get it. yeah.
[Page//00:30:19] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah, there's a lot of the the understanding that you need at least six months to a year of, let's say prep time, like getting your body really healthy.
[Page//00:30:29] Any kind of inflammation, really having that so that you can take on getting pregnant. Right. So if you're under a stressful situation or let's say you have allergies or other kinds of digestive problems, That those are gonna influence your whole health, including your sleep. Right. And sleep is a big aspect of reproductive hormones.
[Page//00:30:55] And you can't just say, well, I catch up on my sleep on the weekend or, oh yeah. That was a [Page//00:31:00] stressful time. But now I'm fine. It's like, actually you, you know, it takes a while. to get rid of the stress hormones. And then if you're constantly redoing it again or eating, you know, foods that are off, you know, , you know, like your regular time.
[Page//00:31:19] So your blood sugar is going up and down. Even if it's, it's not even a matter of like, do or do you have diabetes or something, it's really this kind of irregularity and, and frenetic pacing. And so the body is getting signals that there's not stability. And really, so there are a lot of different, there are a lot of different factors.
[Page//00:31:40] But one of the things that I was looking at when you said, for instance, that you were trying, let's say for two, two years, and at any given time a statistic, I don't it's they look at even with the right timing and everything, they say it's about a 25% chance of [Page//00:32:00] conceiving. So we took the 24 months, like two years of 24 months and we looked and we like took a quarter of that.
[Page//00:32:08] Right? What do we have six times? Right. Which was like six times, like really where. that would, might have been it. Like, and then you're like, okay, so one we're looking at the other ones, there were like all these other things going on and you start to look at like at, or even within a year, it's like 12 times if you've got the right window and all, and all conditions are in order, like everything is in order.
[Page//00:32:39] Everything is in order. No cold, no inflammations, no. All of that. Then we're looking at. That window per month. And then you go like, oh, to conceive a human. If you think about it, it's not that much.
[Page//00:32:56] Julie Michelson: Right.
[Page//00:32:57] Tsao Lin-Moy: It's just that it's spread out.[Page//00:33:00]
[Page//00:33:00] Julie Michelson: Yeah.
[Page//00:33:01] Tsao Lin-Moy: Right. And so, yeah, so really like looking at like the long it does, it does take the amount of time that it takes.
[Page//00:33:10] Now, if you have a health condition it's not being addressed, then what does that actually creates a bigger disruption?
[Page//00:33:20] Julie Michelson: Gotcha. What, what do you, because I, I, and I don't know the answer to this yet, but I'm hedging my bets here that it's going to weather. somebody listening to this, you know, is trying to conceive thinking about conceiving or not. Cuz I'm guessing anything you are gonna answer with is gonna serve anybody's general health as well, which you talked about that year of, I look at it as like prepping the garden bed, right?
[Page//00:33:47] Like you just don't. Throw stuff in the ground. I mean you could, but what is something that you have everybody do? You know, if they're like, okay, you know, either they've already been trying or they know they're [Page//00:34:00] maybe they're, I love the head of the game thinkers. Maybe they know that that they're going to want to, and they find you and they, they wanna get ready.
[Page//00:34:09] You know, what's, what's a biggie. What's
[Page//00:34:11] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah, the best thing, if they can like, decide that they just need to get healthy, no matter what.
[Page//00:34:15] Julie Michelson: Right,
[Page//00:34:16] Tsao Lin-Moy: Because this is what they wanna do. Right? So it's someone like training for a marathon. You really wanna, like, you gotta like take the steps to build yourself up to, but there are things like I'm really like all the sugar free stuff.
[Page//00:34:31] So does a lot of processed food, even if it's supposedly healthy, it's still processed.
[Page//00:34:38] Julie Michelson: right.
[Page//00:34:40] Tsao Lin-Moy: I'm definitely much more plant based just because there, you know, the meat sources and there's so many different things, right. That are going on. Also really, they gotta take a probiotic because no matter what as [Page//00:35:00] healthy as you believe your system is that there's so many environmental factors, like all the microplastics.
[Page//00:35:08] That are around and those are endocrine disruptors. So also like stop covering your food in plastic wrap. Start using glass. Just things that you can do, right? You gotta also like what kind of shampoos and stuff like that, that you're putting on your body soaps and things that are also endocrine disruptors.
[Page//00:35:30] We wanna like wherever you can, you gotta like eliminate it. Right? So the best thing you can. And so those are, are a lot of. That those are, are great for people to just do. It's also environmentally better as well.
[Page//00:35:47] Julie Michelson: right. But, and I love that you added the best that you can, because that addresses that whole, like then stress ball perfectionism. We can't avoid [Page//00:36:00] toxins, but if we. Control what we can take our power, you know, use glass, eat real, clean, organic, you know, good food and take those steps with our products and our, I, I always say, you know, my, my home is my Haven.
[Page//00:36:18] We just got back from vacation. I. I brought my, I brought dish soap. I brought like I'm I I'm, I take it to another level because it's easy for, that's not stressful for me. It's it's E it's more stressful for me to pick up the bottle of blue dish soap and wash something in it and then eat off it
[Page//00:36:37] But like where you can, that makes sense, right?
[Page//00:36:41] Tsao Lin-Moy: you can, where you can make those changes. Cuz it's not that like, it's not that. And you'll, and, and what it is is that you're being proactive and I think. That every action that you take, it moves you forward. So a lot of the focus that women have is, oh, it didn't happen. It's not happening. I'm not, you know, cuz they're looking [Page//00:37:00] at this one thing as they're focused and I'm like everything you're doing, you're moving closer and closer to it.
[Page//00:37:07] And so You know this idea of like immediate gratification or when I want it I'm ready and now it should happen. I mean, that is I think that's where the big disappointment comes in their expectation. And then the, and then of course, there's that relationship with their body, which they haven't had.
[Page//00:37:26] Right. And then now it's like, well, what do you mean? You're not, it's like, listen, you haven't been listening to your body for so long. And now you're at, you
[Page//00:37:33] Julie Michelson: You wanted to grow a baby?
[Page//00:37:35] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah, but you don't even understand. You're not understanding like how it works. And then the, this I know before you started recording, we were talking a bit about.
[Page//00:37:45] you know, women's health and you know, women's health and women's bodies are constantly being managed. And so the idea, if you don't learn about your cycle, when you [Page//00:38:00] go and say I'm having difficulty getting pregnant. And they will, there are gonna be plenty of things that are gonna be found that might be wrong with you.
[Page//00:38:11] And it feeds into and ties into this idea of you know, there's something wrong. There must be something wrong with me. I need, you know flawed in some way. And that is really a very much a a narrative. Of being less than and not capable. And then also our value is tied to being able to reproduce.
[Page//00:38:38] Can we produce an air? Right. And if not, you know, aging is also a big part of it, you know, everyone's trying to still look like they're 21, culturally, as we get older, you know, old people, older are not respected and definitely women it's a lot harder for them. So, you know, signs of fertility are, are a [Page//00:39:00] part are having a child is a sign of fertility and youth and, and all of that.
[Page//00:39:05] And so when. Someone is, has a perceives that they're struggling. It does shake up a deeper core thing going on. And then if a, if they go to a specialist that tells them, oh, you're gonna have a lot of trouble, or you got your eggs are really like old or something that sets off that sets into motion. Like the panic, like unbelievable
[Page//00:39:34] Julie Michelson: And I'm giggling because my perspective is so different now and I it's so AB it sounds so absurd to me. And I, I shouldn't be giggling, I it's not to be disrespectful because it does, it triggers, you know, well then increase somebody's stress like that, and then good luck conceiving, right? Because they're living in this world of, oh my gosh, you know, I'm broken, my eggs are old.
[Page//00:39:59] Tsao Lin-Moy: [Page//00:40:00] the fear, the fear Moning. That I see. And now it's really because there is an industry, right? Fertility is an industry. Although in the recent issues that have been going on in the Supreme court, there's a lot of questions about the status of, you know, the medical community with IVF. Like all of that now is coming into question about the practices and you know, what constitutes life, right?
[Page//00:40:29] And so this is a, you know, you know, your mat, your genetic material, or how many cells constitute, you know, like. A human. And so this is gonna be, I mean, I, I know that the, the, the fertility community, at least the, the, you know, there, you know, this is a lot of this is shaking it up. Really? Shaking it up.
[Page//00:40:57] Yeah.
[Page//00:40:57] Julie Michelson: Gotcha. I, I [Page//00:41:00] don't want to keep you too far over time. I know you've already given listeners some things that they can do, but I always wrap with the question and it doesn't have to be something you've already mentioned, but if listeners wanted to take one step today to improve their health improves their.
[Page//00:41:19] Fertility garden, it reduce their inflammation, all, all the things improve their health span. I love that. I'm, I'm stealing that word by the way.
[Page//00:41:29] Tsao Lin-Moy: Just me. I forgot where I got. I forgot where I got and I was like, Hmm. Life spent health span.
[Page//00:41:34] Julie Michelson: I love that as I, I said and I wrote it down, even though I said it, cuz I was like, I like that. I wanna live young until I'm done, which is exactly health span is a much more succinct way to say that.
[Page//00:41:46] But 1, 1, 1 thing that, that people can start today to start to move the needle.
[Page//00:41:52] Tsao Lin-Moy: Well, there are a couple of practices that I do. So it's like a twofer. I'll give you a twofer. One is a, [Page//00:42:00] is it's a, is a, these are activities to make a stronger mind, body connection. And, and especially for people who have difficulty meditating, you need to do something that will, and I like to do breath work, you know, like breathing in and out.
[Page//00:42:19] I do like the, a, a really quick whim ho that I I love it. Because it's guided, you know, so someone who's like, oh, am I gonna breathe? You just have this, like telling you to breathe in and breathe out and breathe in and breathe out. And what that does is that helps to reset your nervous system.
[Page//00:42:37] And then you're aware of your heartbeat. You're aware you can feel your circulation because you are focusing on the breathing in and out that you really can't think about other stuff that's intruding because you just, you gotta, you gotta focus on it. And and someone is, it's just like kind of guiding you.
[Page//00:42:57] So that's a, a really easy thing to [Page//00:43:00] do. And why do I like it? Because it also increases oxygenation. And oxygen saturation, and that changes your move. So you feel better, more positive outlook. So you're inhaling, exhaling, you're doing the oxygen exchange. It's also way of we consider detoxing. And then the other is a, a routine.
[Page//00:43:25] I got, I got it from this. I, I saw it from this doctor, this physiotherapist, which is a lymph. Kind of a thing for like helping to do like a lymph yourself, lymph massage, and it's called like a big six, but I actually added in to make it like a big eight or like an eight. And I do that every morning and I teach it to all my patients to really start to move that fluid in your system because the lymph system is the, like the waste system.
[Page//00:43:58] So you get that to [Page//00:44:00] help drain out inflammation. So breathing and doing something like that really starts to clear out a lot of inflammation and get you in a good space and you feel better, right? You just, you will feel bad, better. Right. And that's, that's where I would just like to start, like to do it as a practice.
[Page//00:44:20] So they, they. 15 minutes, maybe 10, 15 minutes. You do it anything more than people don't do it.
[Page//00:44:27] Julie Michelson: Right.
[Page//00:44:28] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah. But you can do it like the limb stuff. I do it in the morning while I'm waiting for the coffee, like drinking water, and I'm waiting for the coffee, you know, to, to, to brew and like, and, and so I'm not doing anything else.
[Page//00:44:43] I might as well, you know, do this and you really, you feel, you feel this stuff kind of moving and that.
[Page//00:44:50] Julie Michelson: I love that it is so important and, you know, circles back to, we were just talking about managing toxins. We've gotta clear them. It's not just about reducing what we're [Page//00:45:00] exposed to, but we've gotta, you know, support our body in clearing that inflammation in those toxins. So I, I love say I, I somehow knew you.
[Page//00:45:10] Weren't gonna pick from the list you already gave us.
[Page//00:45:12] Tsao Lin-Moy: Oh, did I give, I forgot all that. Well, you know, okay. So then, so in Chi, so these are the movements. So in Chinese medicine, they've got like a, like a chigong is like a meditative movement, similar to yoga. If you do yoga, you're gonna get a similar breathing and moving, and also Tai Chi. Those are designed to be a mindful movement with breathing and that helps your Chi move.
[Page//00:45:36] So that's a, I just contributed to an article for Fitbit. I can share that and I'll, I'll post it on my, my site as one of the, the articles. The idea really is you are just helping to your system to move. Right. And only you can really do that. Right. Making a massage. I
[Page//00:45:56] Julie Michelson: do that for you.
[Page//00:45:58] Tsao Lin-Moy: Yeah, but once [Page//00:46:00] you feel it, see the thing is, is once you, you actually feel this stuff moving and you're like, oh yeah.
[Page//00:46:05] Now I can, like, I get it.
[Page//00:46:08] Julie Michelson: Yeah. And it becomes your ins, you know, you don't wanna stop. You want to feel like you I'm sure wanna do that every morning when your coffee's brewing cuz you know, it's gonna, you're gonna feel well
[Page//00:46:20] Tsao Lin-Moy: And you'll feel the, the, the it's actually pretty instant. What I'll tell you, you do it, you do notice like right away, you'll, you'll notice like things are moving and then that's like the inspiration to be like, oh, this does work, right. It does work.
[Page//00:46:37] Julie Michelson: I love that for, for listeners that are listening on the go and may not take the time to check back in, in the show notes where they'll find their links, where's the best place to find you.
[Page//00:46:49] Tsao Lin-Moy: Probably the best place to find me is gonna be on Instagram
[Page//00:46:52] Julie Michelson: Okay.
[Page//00:46:52] Tsao Lin-Moy: It's @IntegrativeHealingArts NYC.
[Page//00:46:57] NYC
[Page//00:46:58] Julie Michelson: Love it. Love it. [Page//00:47:00] Cho. Thank you so much. You have shared such amazing gold with us today. I, I hope listeners listen to this three times and I cannot encourage E everybody. To, to follow you, find you reach out to you because you are doing amazing work and you're helping people achieve their health goals, their fertility goals and their, their health span goals.
[Page//00:47:25] So thank you so much for being here.
[Page//00:47:28] Tsao Lin-Moy: thank you for having me.
[Page//00:47:30] Julie Michelson: For everyone. Listen, remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week.
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Tsao Lin Moy
Tsao-Lin Moy L.Ac.,MSOM is an Alternative and Chinese Medicine expert with over 20 years of experience in alternative and Chinese medicine. A licensed acupuncturist and herbalist, Tsao founded Integrative Healing Arts in NYC where she offers acupuncture, herbal medicine and energy healing to treat patients.
Tsao is a natural fertility expert trained in East Asian medicine and helps couples conceive naturally using her fertility protocols and Chinese medicine.
She is the best selling author of “Will I Ever Get Pregnant? The Smart Woman’s Guide to Get Pregnant Naturally Over 40.”
Specialties include fertility, stress, anxiety, immunity and sleep.
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