Episode 182
Elaine Hicks:Underwater Therapist Reveals Life-Changing Nervous System Hacks for Chronic Pain
Elaine Hicks:
Underwater Therapist Reveals Life-Changing Nervous System Hacks for Chronic Pain
Discover how an underwater therapist is revolutionizing chronic pain management by tapping into the body's most powerful nervous system hack.
Learn why traditional relaxation techniques often fail and how simple "nervous system mapping" can unlock healing potential your doctor never mentioned.
Plus, the surprising 2-minute ice pack trick that dramatically reduces pain signals!
Learn why traditional relaxation techniques often fail and how simple "nervous system mapping" can unlock healing potential your doctor never mentioned.
Plus, the surprising 2-minute ice pack trick that dramatically reduces pain signals!
First Aired on: Mar 10, 2025
Episode 182
Elaine Hicks:Underwater Therapist Reveals Life-Changing Nervous System Hacks for Chronic Pain
Elaine Hicks:
Underwater Therapist Reveals Life-Changing Nervous System Hacks for Chronic Pain
Discover how an underwater therapist is revolutionizing chronic pain management by tapping into the body's most powerful nervous system hack.
Learn why traditional relaxation techniques often fail and how simple "nervous system mapping" can unlock healing potential your doctor never mentioned.
Plus, the surprising 2-minute ice pack trick that dramatically reduces pain signals!
Learn why traditional relaxation techniques often fail and how simple "nervous system mapping" can unlock healing potential your doctor never mentioned.
Plus, the surprising 2-minute ice pack trick that dramatically reduces pain signals!
First Aired on: Mar 10, 2025
Table of Contents:
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
In this episode:
In this episode, I chat with Elaine Hicks, a licensed clinical social worker and "underwater therapist" who combines freediving with polyvagal theory to help people regulate their nervous systems. She shares powerful techniques for managing chronic pain, reducing stress, and reconnecting with your body—all based on principles that can be applied whether you're underwater or on dry land.
Introduction
Elaine Hicks is a licensed clinical social worker who pioneered an innovative approach to healing by combining freediving with nervous system regulation techniques. Her work focuses on helping people understand their nervous system through polyvagal theory and teaching practical methods to improve self-regulation, especially for those dealing with chronic pain and autoimmune conditions.
Episode Highlights
Understanding Polyvagal Theory and Nervous System Zones
Elaine breaks down how our nervous system operates in three key zones, each with different functions and characteristics.
- The ventral or "panda" zone: where you feel safe, connected, and can function effectively
- The sympathetic or "lion" zone: mobilized for protection, play, or competition
- The dorsal or "dolphin" zone: for rest, restoration, or shutdown
- These zones blend together and create different physiological states
- Understanding these zones helps you recognize and shift your nervous system state
The Freediving Connection to Healing
Freediving activates powerful physiological responses that can be harnessed for healing on land too.
- Freediving is diving underwater on a single breath, typically to depths of 15-33 feet for recreational divers
- The Mammalian Dive Response (MDR) is the most powerful autonomic reflex in our nervous system
- Water immersion rapidly activates the parasympathetic "rest, digest, and heal" response
- This physiological state promotes vagus nerve restoration and relaxation
- The same principles can be applied on land using specific breathing techniques
Interoception and Body Awareness for Pain Management
Learning to sense and release tension in your body is critical for managing chronic pain.
- Interoception is your ability to sense and regulate internal body states
- Many people with chronic conditions disconnect from their bodies as a survival tactic
- Finding tension patterns (like clenched jaw, tight shoulders) is the first step to releasing them
- Identifying both "hot spots" (areas of tension) and "cold spots" (areas of disconnection)
- Body scanning helps reconnect with sensations in a safe, controlled way
Practical Techniques for Nervous System Regulation
Elaine shares specific methods anyone can use at home to shift their nervous system state.
- 5-10 breathing: 5-second inhale, 2-second pause, 10-second exhale to activate rest and digest
- Using ice packs on the thoracic spine (mid-back) to lower heart rate within 2 minutes
- Mapping your nervous system to identify patterns and areas needing attention
- Finding "pockets of safety" in your body to build from
- Controlled breath holding to build distress tolerance
The Power of Play in Healing
Incorporating play into healing practices creates neurological shifts that facilitate change.
- Play is the "neuro biochemical opposite of trauma"
- When we're playing, we're more likely to feel safe enough to make changes
- Simple activities like blowing bubbles combine play with breath regulation
- Play helps create immediate benefits, often in the first session
- This approach works whether in water or on land
Notable Quotes from this Episode
The goal isn't really to relax and be passive. It's to be self-regulated and function despite all these things happening. Self-regulation gets us back into our prefrontal cortex where we can problem solve.
Elaine Hicks
You can change stress state with breath. If you can't relax, you can do the things to physiologically make that happen.
Elaine Hicks
A lot of the times the people I'm working with have positive benefits in the first session. When you're playing, you're in that neuro biochemical opposite of trauma. If you're playing, you feel safe. If you're safe, you can change your nervous system state.
Elaine Hicks
Other Resources:
Other Resources:
Connect with Elaine Hicks
Connect with Elaine Hicks
Watch this interview:
Watch this interview:
Episode Transcript
Elaine Hicks:[00:00:00] We start with how to self-regulate. We get ice packs. It's a big part of free diving and releasing the body has to do with that MDR the A million GY spots. So if we add the cold water with the ice packs on the back of the neck and on the chest thoracic spine or on the face, there seems to be effective enough for this process to start.
Elaine Hicks: Then we learn breath work. Which is a 5 second inhale, a 2 second pause, and a 10 second exhale. Exhale is double the inhale, you're activating your rest and digest. Now you've got that cold water feeling on your back. Your heart rate in two minutes is going to drop down.
Elaine Hicks: What can that do for pain management? A lot. If you are tense, you're not breathing, And your heart rate's activated or elevated because you're scared, you're nervous, here comes a migraine, I've lost the rest of my day. If you implement this, even this kind of practice, it might steer you off onto a different course.
[00:01:00]
Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today we're joined by Elaine Hicks, the underwater therapist. Elaine is a licensed clinical social worker, certified substance abuse counselor, and free diving instructor. She specializes in blending trauma informed therapy with the transformative health benefits of free diving, creating a unique approach to wellness that doesn't even require stepping into the water.
Julie Michelson: Elaine is the creator of the HICS [00:02:00] Dive Method, an integrative system that focuses on self regulation, nervous system health, and mental resilience. Through her trauma informed free diving course and private practice, Elaine empowers individuals to tap into their eighth superpower, Interoception to unlock healing, manage stress, and connect with their inner calm.
Julie Michelson: In today's conversation, we discuss polyvagal theory and how Elaine uses her experience as a free diving instructor to empower women to connect with their bodies and become responsive instead of reactive. In addition to supporting healing, these techniques can greatly improve quality of life.
Julie Michelson: Elaine, welcome to the podcast. It's
Elaine Hicks: so good to be here.
Julie Michelson: I have already, I was like, okay, we have to hit record. I have, I'm so excited for listeners to get to know you. Um, and I would love for you to share, because I find what you're doing to be really [00:03:00] unique and pioneering. Um, how did you get to be the underwater therapist?
Julie Michelson: And then we'll get into some of the goodies that I think are invaluable for the autoimmune community to learn about.
Elaine Hicks: Thank you. Um, super stoked to be here. When I saw your, your podcast, as I was telling you before, I have so many I want to listen to and, um, I feel, I feel pretty lucky to be able to share some of my stuff with your, with your audience.
Elaine Hicks: So the underwater therapist has been many years in the making. Um, my quote unquote day job is I'm a licensed clinical social worker, which means I do therapy program evaluation. Data stuff, tracking outcomes, kind of the equivalent of a psychologist, plus a little bit more. No offense to any psychologists out there, but we do just as much work.
Elaine Hicks: Plus, um, so in my work as a social [00:04:00] worker and substance use counseling, I got introduced to free diving right before COVID happened. So I was like an extreme aggressive smorkeler, which is like. Pretty unsafe. You're diving down to like maybe 10 feet. You're trying to get your ears to pop, but it was just so amazing and incredible to, to be in, in the waters of Hawaii are some of the best shore diving opportunities you could ever.
Elaine Hicks: Um, and during COVID, everything was shut down here it was especially challenging because the only thing we could do is fish. Go swimming or go diving. We couldn't, of course, be with our friends. And so we went out to a special beach where we had heard rumors that there would be big animals like fins. And so I'm out there freaking out because we're like 200 meters offshore, maybe 300.
Elaine Hicks: We're in the [00:05:00] middle of the ocean. There's no one around us. And this pot of like 50 dolphins comes. at us at 100 miles an hour. And I was terrified. And then these spearfishers come rolling by and they're diving down to 40 feet. And I was like, that has to be me. I want to do this. So I took a free diving course as soon as everything opened in this class.
Elaine Hicks: It's taught me so much about my strength and my power and how you can use it differently in the water. It's not brute force. You're never going to win if you're fighting the water ever, you have to flow into it. And I saw all at the same time, the intersection between mental health, trauma, healing, what my body was doing in response to this challenge that I picked and And how I just, [00:06:00] I just thought to be something very life changing in controlled settings.
Elaine Hicks: Now, I had no idea how that was going to unfold, but as a researcher, uh, as someone who values data evaluation and checking and making sure things are evidence based, I was like, I gotta do this. So I signed up maybe a month later for an instructor course that was that December. Wow. I took my class in April.
Elaine Hicks: December, I was in Mexico and Playa del Carmen taking a three week freediving instructor course. I was not the typical student you would see on a course like this. So, very challenging. So, from there I started. Talking about trauma informed freediving and mental health benefits of freediving. And then it all, the more I've researched it and kind of brought things together, and then putting [00:07:00] on polyvagal theory, just a way of understanding our nervous system in a different way, it just opened up so many, like, portals of understanding is probably the best way I can.
Elaine Hicks: And when I drilled into that, It came down to like, how aware are we of our nervous system? How aware of like our breath rate, our blink rate, our swallow rate, things that are easy to get in touch with that don't throw people into their body so rapidly that they shut down. And that can happen when we're sick, when we've had COVID, we have auto immune, we have all kinds of things going on.
Elaine Hicks: We want to disconnect from the body. So by overlaying this polyvagal kind of theory onto the free dive body. And the trauma, the traumatized body, the body and survival, the body and chronic shutdown or chronic hypervigilance. So many, it just brought up so many different avenues of healing for [00:08:00] people.
Julie Michelson: I love that.
Julie Michelson: And, and, you know, almost everybody I have interviewed on the podcast, on the podcast, it gets to their zone of genius through, you know, their personal experience, right. And then we want to take that and share it, help others. Um, I want to circle back. Just give a little foundation for listeners that we have done episodes on, um, the vagus nerve and polyvagal theory, but I want to hear your perspective and, and share with listeners.
Julie Michelson: I think that's a great starting point. And then I want to, you know, kind of bring in that, that the free diving body, as you mentioned, and, and. Relating to, you know, obviously not all listeners are free divers and I'll let everybody know right now. You do not need to free dive to take advantage of Elaine's wisdom and genius.
Julie Michelson:[00:09:00] So, but let's start with the basics of polyvagal theory as as you see it.
Elaine Hicks: Um, the way I understand polyvagal and use it with even the clients I work with in my private practice is that, um, it, it breaks down the nervous system into three kind of zones. And then you have portals of entry into the zone so your nervous systems like this universe inside of you.
Elaine Hicks: And you have portals to enter this universe. And so, the three zones, if we start from the top down, we have Ventral, which is like you're safe, getting connected, finding resources. When I teach about this to substance use counselors, I call this the Panda Zone, because it's playful, when you're safe and engaged, you can, you can talk to people, you can pay your bills, you can find your keys, right?
Elaine Hicks: It's like practical stuff. And so, within that [00:10:00] zone, There's particular mechanisms through your cranial nerves, your eyes, your ears, your nose, your mouth, your throat, how we connect and relate to people. So it becomes like these zones become very relatable on a day to day basis. And then you have your sympathetic, or I call it the lion's zone because you can be mobilized for play.
Elaine Hicks: For teamwork, competition, you can be mobilized for protection, which can look like fight or flight, or, you know, it could be wonder, curiosity, and joy. It doesn't have to be just anger and disruption. And that's kind of how I recategorize that. Yeah, you're mobilized and you're excited. Yeah, you're scared and you should be scared because you're doing something big and that's going to grow you know, and then the last would be like mid diaphragm and down like the dorsal or the dolphins.
Elaine Hicks: This is where we can. Have a quiet rest and we can withdraw from all of our day to day kind of things and have [00:11:00] quiet activities, restorative activities, or we can withdraw and shut down. And then, of course, all of these zones, hang out with each other, and they make these blended states that are beautiful, you know, so I think understanding how each of these, what the basic function of each one is and how they're blended together.
Elaine Hicks: Thank you for your time. Really helps people understand what's going on with their bodies in different ways. And then maybe they can change their physiology, like I mentioned, breath rate, blink rate, heart rate. Things you can change right away through that eighth superpower, which is how I learned about.
Elaine Hicks: And it's another key part of Polyvagal is Deterreception. And then this concept of neuroception, which explains all these automatic reactions or responses we have to things because your nervous system's 24 seven listening to keep you safe, which is good, but also can be very annoying, right? Because so you learn how to listen and work with it and [00:12:00] create this like partnership.
Elaine Hicks: You could spend your life reacting instead of respond.
Julie Michelson: Yes. And that's really at the heart of the whole point is that learning to be in a responsive state instead of a reactive state. And as we were chatting before we hit record, you know, anytime we're dealing with. Chronic challenges, but especially chronic health challenges, chronic pain.
Julie Michelson: Um, you know, I have so many people have come to me and been like, Oh, I'm not stressed. I'm not. And I'm like, B. S. You are so out of touch with what is going on in your body. And I, I, in a non scientific way and through just my journey and experience, think, you know, it is almost a survival tactic to disconnect.
Julie Michelson: Um, it doesn't serve us long term, but we create this pattern of being disconnected from breath, [00:13:00] being disconnected from feeling, being, you know, not even that, like you mentioned awareness, not aware. Of what state we're actually in and for me, the reason I love, um, just sharing this understanding of it's chicken or egg.
Julie Michelson: Right? Like you can change stress state with breath with, you know, and feed each other. Right? So you can relax. Or sometimes you, you know, if you can't relax, you can do the things to, to physiologically make that happen. And, and, um, as somebody who has a more recent love of being underwater, I think I certified scuba diving four years ago, um, thinking I was doing it.
Julie Michelson: But for my fiance, he's the kind of guy who I just know, you know, would never, even if I said, [00:14:00] I'm happy with a book on the beach, you go scuba diving, he would never go. So I thought, Oh, I'll surprise him and I'll certify. I. Love it more than he does, I think. Um, and yeah, you're giving me some clues as to why.
Elaine Hicks: Oh, yes, yes. It's, and it's this unification of your, these two zones of your nervous system, the dolphin and the panda come together, um, to keep it easy, like your ventral and dorsal. They, they form this amazing, the most powerful autonomic reflex we have in our entire nervous system. Then the mammalian diet response or reflex.
Elaine Hicks: It's so powerful. It puts you in such so quickly into your parasympathetic nervous system, which we call rest and digest.
Julie Michelson: Yes. And heal, right? Like that. It heals.
Elaine Hicks: It heals. Yeah. Long term vagus nerve restoration. You're choosing to put yourself in a self regulated state, [00:15:00] which leads to relaxation. And you mentioned relaxation.
Elaine Hicks: And I think oftentimes if we're dealing with like long COVID health problems, Relaxation feels like a far away goal. And yeah, and I've been talking about this a lot the last few months. Um, is, is the goal really to relax and be passive? No. Or do you want to be self regulated and function despite like Yes.
Elaine Hicks: All these things are happening, but I want to function and self regulation really gets us back into our prefrontal cortex where we can problem solve, find my keys, make coffee. Everybody's got their lunch. I didn't leave any kids outside on the front step. Like I have done all my things. And I can actually behaviorally respond appropriately as well.
Elaine Hicks: Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Which is, is different than pushing. Yes, in [00:16:00] survival mode, right? And so you can heal and function and I'm so glad you clarified because when I say relax, I'm thinking physiologically, not sitting around on the couch, not, you know, I mean, whatever, do your bliss. Um, but for most of my clients who are perfectionist overachievers, their bliss is not, you know, zoning out.
Julie Michelson: Um, and, and, you know, it takes a little time for buy in of this actually makes you perform better. This makes you not leave any kids behind or do any, any of the things we all don't want to have happen by the end of the day. Right. Um, so. I'm a visual person, so I love the fact that you, I think you are as well, just from how you describe it.
Julie Michelson: You know, your theories, your process. Um, so we have this basic understanding of polyvagal [00:17:00] theory. And the importance, um, now pull in the, the free diving body for me, because I know this actually just informs your whole unique approach.
Elaine Hicks: Yeah, so I was mentioning that the typical free diver I work with is about 40.
Elaine Hicks: She's usually a pair of enterprise in retrospect, um, she doesn't have an average Instagram body. This is a normal woman, right? Right. A real woman. A what? A real woman. A real woman. Someone who, you know, maybe she's 20 pounds over, like she's, but she's strong and she's capable and she's had challenges getting into free diving classes because she doesn't look the part.
Elaine Hicks: And I hate to, you know, like we, I love my sport, but there's a lot of, of that in her, in her, in her life. [00:18:00] And
Julie Michelson: actually humor me for a second, because we jumped into this conversation. I'm assuming people know what free diving is. So can
Elaine Hicks: we
Julie Michelson: go back for a second?
Elaine Hicks: So, okay. So you have snorkeling where you wear your mask and your shorty cute little shorty fins and you have a snorkel in your mouth.
Elaine Hicks: Um, your mask is usually one of those big gnarly ones that cover like most of your face and your mouth spread, you know, open for you to struggle free diving. We used a low volume mask. These are two, there's no tanks. You use long fins and usually a weight belt. And so we dive deeper on a breath hold with full lungs beyond 10 feet.
Elaine Hicks: So here your average typical dive is going to be 33 feet at the max for most people. I mean, there's some recreational freedivers who like to go deeper, but at one of our favorite spots here, Electric Beach, the max is going to be 15, 20 [00:19:00] feet, really, maybe 30. And that's where all the cool stuff is. So, freediving lets you interact with nature on a different level.
Elaine Hicks: Snorkeling is very surface, so freediving is going down. And then there's several disciplines within freediving. So we have recreational and then there's competition, but we even have training. You can do different kinds of training in the pool. There's pool free diving. Um, there's competitions for the pool.
Elaine Hicks: There's competitions in the water. You guys have all heard of maybe Alexey Molchanov or at least seen like things in the, in the news about this. There's a documentary on Netflix, which only shows competition side, but it's kind of worse. But there's this whole other beautiful recreational world of your average people just going out there and killing it.
Elaine Hicks: Not killing it. That's a better way to say it. They're out there, like, just diving their hearts out and having such a great time.
Julie Michelson: Yeah. Thank you for that. I just, um, [00:20:00] and I do think just from the things I've read and what I've seen that most of us, if we have some, images in our mind of freediving. It is more of that kind of competition level.
Julie Michelson: I'm going to say kind of crazy, like really pushing the limits really, really intense. Um, and so thank you for, for sharing, but you know, there's a whole range and you're, you're talking about the, what I would call sensible. Enjoyable recreational scuba diving. Practical. Yeah. Well, you know, and it's the same with scuba diving.
Julie Michelson: The beautiful, like really most of what you want to see is not that deep. You know, I mean, the deeper you go, the darker it is, you know, with different exceptions of what kind of diving you do, but, um, so I love that you, you clarify like, Hey, there's like this sweet spot.
Elaine Hicks: And, and in the classes I teach, you have to [00:21:00] do your skills.
Elaine Hicks: There's a series of skills you have to do, but it's all at 10 meters or 33 feet in freedom units. So, um, everything is free diving is in meters. So 10 meters is where your skills are blackout rescue mask removal. You have to learn how to rescue yourself. Yeah.
Julie Michelson: Which is, is, you know, not accidental in how you are using this work, even out of the water.
Elaine Hicks: Yes. Absolutely. So what we, we, the way polyvagal really works is if you look at neuroception, that unconscious listening of the nervous system to keep you safe, remember this is running 24 seven. And then you have interoception, which is your ability. To sense and then regulate your, your, your internal body states, like changing your heart rate, [00:22:00] changing your breath rate, changing your blink rate.
Elaine Hicks: And then from there, you can go, Oh, are my shoulders really tense and up high by my ears? You know, are my butt cheeks clenched? And for those people who that you work with that role in their life, I'm not stressed. I asked my clients the same thing, but I go, wait a minute, how are you holding the steering wheel while you were driving?
Elaine Hicks: Sure. Do you have claw marks right here from clenching the wheel? Tell me about what's going on with your jaw. What about the frowns and the forehead? So like we carry tension all throughout the body. And when we're in class, there's a part that we do, it's a static breath hold in shallow water, which means you're laying on your belly, you've got your mask on, your snorkel, you're holding a float.
Elaine Hicks: I'm right there. It's like three feet of water, right? And you, you hold your breath and you do this interoceptive body scan where you find all the [00:23:00] tension. And I even, I'm looking in a, with permission, I'm just tapping on the different parts that I see. And then you see people releasing and releasing and releasing all of these tension points and they're just floating so effortlessly.
Elaine Hicks: And then they do their, there's a breathe up process, and then I tell them when it's time to hold their breath, they take their snorkel out, I start the timer. Most people are doing a minute and a half to two minutes with no previous kind of breath holding experience. And it's so empowering, especially for these women, because they're like, of course I can do this.
Elaine Hicks: And then all of the ladies that are the people I've been able to train over the last couple years, they're the like strongest freedivers in our community. They're safe as well. It's very strong because they're The whole session is building on foundational skills, but at the same time, what are you learning about yourself, your capability, you know, you can swim to 10 meters and most of them have gone on to 20.
Elaine Hicks: Yeah, [00:24:00] no problems.
Julie Michelson: Wow. And just give us a little bit of a Guess of a reference point of a tense person who hasn't done the body scanning and they're really, you know, the, the difference of when somebody filled with tension tries to hold their breath, like how long do you know, I guess, on average,
Elaine Hicks: maybe 30 seconds, because When you're tense and shriveled up, think about this right now with, when you've had pain, um, and how are you shrinking and compressing your, your thoracic, your, your, your stomach and your, your sides and your shoulders, when you're compressing and holding yourself in really tight, because maybe you're bracing yourself for bad news from the doctor or something, perhaps, you know, you can't expand your lungs.
Elaine Hicks: And then oftentimes, Um, People who are that tense are not breathing into their diaphragm. They're shallow breathing up in their chest. [00:25:00] So maybe they're even hyperventilating. We're not breathing properly and so much can be solved by getting into the correct breathing patterns. Which feels weird. It feels really like It is not threatening for people.
Elaine Hicks: Physiologically, you would think, Oh, but immediately it should be relaxing. It is not. It's foreign. I
Julie Michelson: literally was just talking to one of the employees at the clinic, a new employee at the clinic yesterday about breath and breathing and I gave her the example of a particular client I had worked with probably four years ago, maybe five.
Julie Michelson: Um, who. Was so Just lived in stress zone probably forever But for a really really really long time that when she started to do her breath work. She would have panic reactions like the second or she would get any little [00:26:00] bit of That relaxation release that change she would get a stress response And she was awesome.
Julie Michelson: I was like, give me a week. Just let's just keep, you know, you keep playing with it. And sure enough, you know, it flipped and she never looked back, but it was, it was such a foreign feeling to her. Um, so I love that you highlighted that because it is, it can be real. And I think you use the example of like bracing for bad news.
Julie Michelson: And so many with chronic pain, chronic illness are just. Braced period, they're braced for the pain that's going to happen when they, you know, move a limb or whatever, um, and, or, you know, braced because they're expecting not to have the energy to get through the, all the things, so this isn't just an acute situation kind of thing.
Julie Michelson: This is really for, for that day to day, um. Which is, which [00:27:00] is amazing. So how, how, because as much as I wanted to talk to you, if we were only going to talk about people who could come to Hawaii and learn to free dive with you, this wasn't going to be very helpful for listeners. How do you take, you know, this, this beautiful melding of these worlds and How do you help people on dry land?
Elaine Hicks: I'm glad you asked that, because that's my favorite thing to do. So, I help people map out their nervous system. So, remember I talked about Polyvagal. I've created some worksheets that ask questions based on each of the zones. We rate them on a scale of 1 to 5. We find those, kind of, anything that's like, at the higher end or lower end of the spectrum, Then I'm, I know those are places we need to start looking at, you know, and it's, these are like emotional questions, physiological questions.
Elaine Hicks: I also use [00:28:00] a tool from Polyvagal folks, it's called the Neuroception of Psychological Safety, and it hones in on the physiology. So we can, this mapping process takes out a lot of the stigmatizing kind of things. This is like things we all experience. So I really, I love how it's very neutralizing in that.
Elaine Hicks: So then we map the system, we find those hot spots or cold spots, and then we bring awareness to those areas. We just recognize them as slowly as we need to go. But once you learn how to bring in awareness, we can start doing it with the right person. You know, the support, you need the support to do this.
Elaine Hicks: I believe it's important. Um, like I said before, I'm not going to throw someone into their entire body so they feel pain. Right. We want to find those pockets of safety and strength in the body. So my client, she's like, I have the best quads. They're so strong. And I was like, okay, well, there's your safety.
Elaine Hicks:[00:29:00] Like, that's amazing. You can stabilize yourself and you can go there and find reassurance. Okay. If you're strong there. Okay. Surely you're strong somewhere else. So then we start with how do, how, how to self-regulate. We get ice packs. It's a big part of free diving and releasing the body has to do with that MDR the A million GY spots.
Elaine Hicks: So if we add the cold water, quote unquote, with the ice packs on the back of the neck and on the, on the chest thoracic spine or on the face. I caution people to do it on the face because it's pretty intense, you want to build up to it. So thoracic spine, so mid back, the ice pack there seems to be effective enough for this process to start.
Elaine Hicks: Then we learn breath work. We learn how, and it's based on an individual of course, but I do a 5 10 breathing, which is a 5 second inhale, a 2 [00:30:00] second pause, and a 10 second exhale. Exhale is double the inhale because on the exhale, you're activating your rest and digest. Now you've got that cold water feeling on your back.
Elaine Hicks: Your heart rate in two minutes is going to drop down. And every time I've tested this, I worked out at 120 heartbeats. Did the necessary two minute cool up, lay down on the ice pack, did my breath work, and it dropped back down into the 60s within two minutes. What can that do for pain management? A lot. If you are tense, you're not breathing, And your heart rate's activated or elevated because you're scared, you're nervous, oh my god, here comes a migraine, great, I've lost the rest of my day.
Elaine Hicks: If you implement this, even this kind of practice, as soon as you can, especially if you're at home and you sense the thing coming, whatever your thing happens to be, and you do this practice, who knows, it [00:31:00] might steer you off onto a different course. And even if it reduces. The time lost by two hours.
Elaine Hicks: That's huge. Right? Right. Or your pain scale goes down from an eight to a six. That's still a lot of reduction. So we do breath work, the ice packs, and we're bringing in that awareness and we're finding the tension points and we're releasing them.
Julie Michelson: I love it. And, and the breath is so powerful when we learn how to use it properly and intentionally.
Julie Michelson: Um, I, I just recently was, was talking to a client who does, he, he does a lot of fun biohacking kind of stuff. Um, but I pointed out that he was kind of missing. Like really, really big piece, um, he would cold plunge and then, you know, not warm himself up. He would cold plunge and wrap into, you know, and I was like, the whole point is the regulation, you know, and he had part of it [00:32:00] down, but I, the power in using your breath to warm yourself back up, like, is you're missing the gold if you're, you know, just, you know, torturing yourself in cold water and he was actually breathing through that part.
Julie Michelson: Um, but he had never really learned like the whole method of, and I'm not telling people run out and, you know, take, take a little bit of a lane and a little of that. I'm just saying,
Elaine Hicks: right, right.
Julie Michelson: You can, I mean, when I did my Wim Hof training, I did it in winter outside in Colorado. And I was like, Oh, this was dumb.
Julie Michelson: It was great. It was great. Um, and it, and it really, it's that believing, you know, it's, it's that same moment, right? That your women who, once they find their, their attention and release it, can all of a [00:33:00] sudden stay underwater, you know, and never knew they could do that. And then it's like, Ooh, what else can I do?
Julie Michelson: Right? Then you, it's like, just. This beautiful, beautiful spiral. Um, and, and so I love, I just want to highlight things that I think are really, I mean, everything you said was important, but, um, finding that zone of safety is important, right? You're not re traumatizing people. You're not, you know, there, there is a way to heal that doesn't have to be painful.
Julie Michelson: Um, and I wanted to ask, cause I had, I had the like thought. As you were talking about it, you mentioned when, when you were talking about, um, hot spots and cold spots. And I think most people can, and I shouldn't, I shouldn't assume, but you know, I think most of us think we know what a hot spot is. What would [00:34:00] you say a cold spot is?
Elaine Hicks: Anywhere you're really disconnected from.
Julie Michelson: Yeah.
Elaine Hicks: Yeah. Uh, and, and I think that's real personalized, but I would say. If you're someone who's had to spend a lot of time resting, laying down, I'm thinking your, your glutes, your hamstrings, your legs, your feet, what's going on with them guys? Yeah. You know, is, is there something that you could do, whether it's ankle rolls, bringing your feet up and flexing them?
Elaine Hicks: Can you squeeze? And I teach this in all my classes, squeeze and release the glutes, squeeze and release them. Bring awareness and like, awaken them. Yeah. If it doesn't cause you pain, right? And this is all based on, this is why it's so personalized, but I wanted to circle back to the breathing and say, we never, ever, never use Wim Hof in the water.
Elaine Hicks: We never do hyperventilation in the water. [00:35:00] Every freediving agency has a standard protocol for the relaxation or breathe phase, which is two minutes. So, we're not just willy nilly doing all these weird breathing things and holding our breath. It's two minutes of tidal breathing and a big final breath and then holding your breath.
Elaine Hicks: But I just wanted to make sure that if someone decides to try. And I'm glad you
Julie Michelson: said that because I think people have a misconception of Wim Hof breathing and Wim Hof method and being trained in the Wim Hof method, you don't do that breathing in the water either. So, you do it to prepare and then you're good.
Julie Michelson: And then you use breath, different breath to warm back up. So I love that you, that you highlighted that because honestly, proper Wim Hof, you're not hyperventilating in the water either. So,
Elaine Hicks: right. But you know, we get excited when we hear new podcasts and we're trying to go try that. It's going to help me with my pain.
Elaine Hicks: And yes, free diving can help you with pain [00:36:00] management because of the MDR, because you're in a relaxed state. But not
Julie Michelson: just. It's just like, you know, equipment and jumping water. This is not what we're talking about. Yes. Take
Elaine Hicks: a class. Take at least some intro or like a try free diving or, uh, you know, snorkeling classes or just go in the pool and relax, but, um, and relaxing.
Elaine Hicks: I mean like laying on your back, just on your back and float if you can. Uh, cause that takes all the weight off your body. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to. But that
Julie Michelson: I thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you know, I everything I when I hear something and I'm like, Oh, I want to try that. I do what you recommended you find.
Julie Michelson: Um, and, and I think it's important to have your expert that feels right to you. And, and you don't do these things alone. I am not advocating anybody. Try any.
Elaine Hicks: Never. Never. That is the number one rule of freediving. It's [00:37:00] more, never go alone.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, absolutely. And, and. So to circle back onto land, because right now I'm looking out my windows and we're covered in snow.
Julie Michelson: And I want to know if listeners are in a similar, excuse me, locale, you work with people on land.
Elaine Hicks: I do. I do. Uh, and like I said, it goes back to like bringing awareness and mapping the nervous system. I do some education, like I explain the zones. I explain the blended states and the, you know, what each area is responsible for and how they kind of work together.
Elaine Hicks: And then from there, we learn how to work with the vagus nerve. We learn how to work with these different zones. We learn how to work with our cranial nerves because those are key for not only, and this is where the magic happens for me, those cranial nerves are not only responsible [00:38:00] for our ability to talk, communicate, find support, you know, they're also responsible for every single freediving function that we have.
Elaine Hicks: Equalization. I pointed to the ears, but also the point to the throat because we use our throat muscles to equalize our ears as well. And you've been scuba diving, you've, you've kind of had those sensations, you know, and then if you have tension in your trigeminal, if you have TMJ or if you have migraines, tension in your jaw.
Elaine Hicks: Is going to be a place that we're going to go try to release. So this mapping system really gets pretty, it can get pretty the deep, no pun intended into this, like, really allergy, really, um, this deep dive into your body in this. The information you get back is so layered and beautiful and you there's always something you can work with.
Elaine Hicks: So everything I do starts on land. And then if someone wants to try this out in the [00:39:00] water, there's different levels to this as well. We can sit by the ocean and talk about it. We can put our toes in. We can float in two or three feet of water. I've had people floating who said they would never float. Ever.
Elaine Hicks: Had them floating. We can start there. You know, and then. We can build on that. We can also help people with breath holding because the other part of activating the MDR is the breath hold. Okay. So when you bring the heart rate down, we do the breath work and then we hold our breath and that gives you so much control and power within your body because now you can sit and deliberately experience distress, right?
Elaine Hicks: And build up a tolerance to it. And, um, there was a fascinating study that came out about how people with panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, are improper breathers and they're responding to their [00:40:00] natural fire alarm, the CO2, which tells you, Hey, it's like, like breathe, please. Something is wrong, which is what we respond to underwater.
Elaine Hicks: Our CO2, when you hold your breath, your CO2 starts building up. And in freediving, we learn how to, it's still built up, but we're not responding to it. We're choosing not to respond. We're finishing our, our dive. We come back up with grace, with calm, with presence. We come to the surface, we do our recovery breathing, which is very important after a breath hold.
Elaine Hicks: And then you can go, hold on, I'm okay. So each time you do that, you add two seconds, three seconds, four seconds, that's mastery. That's mastery. So yeah.
Julie Michelson: And for those that haven't already connected those dots, you know, that mastery helps you regulate and [00:41:00] respond instead of react like that's what gives you that space.
Elaine Hicks: Yes.
Julie Michelson: To, you know, just take that half a beat and not be just,
Elaine Hicks: you
Julie Michelson: know, really not in the driver's seat of your day for sure. Yeah.
Elaine Hicks: And this is when we tell the neuroception, okay, I've got it from here. I know I'm safe. I have my safety diver. My friend is right there. Literally, the surface is in four feet.
Elaine Hicks: I'm fine. I can hold my breath for another few seconds and honestly, in an emergency situation, human beings can hold their breath for up to four minutes without up to four minutes. Like it's going to depend. But, uh, without, without brain damage, usually, and this is why also you should never snorkel or dive with your snorkel in your mouth.
Elaine Hicks: Anytime you're going under the water, unless you're scuba diving, you take your, your contraption out of [00:42:00] your mouth because if you do hit your head or blackout, you've got a funnel of death bringing oxygen to your lungs. If you blackout without that in your mouth, we have all these natural protective mechanisms that will kind of shut everything down and protect you.
Elaine Hicks: Um, so just remember that you can hold your breath for 30 seconds. You're not going to have brain damage. Yeah. No matter, no matter
Julie Michelson: what signals you're receiving, you know, it's a practice.
Elaine Hicks: It is a practice. And then that's where the beauty of how we can put this on pain management. How can we put this on dealing with these unfortunate long term circumstances when we have like autoimmune conditions sort of on COVID is if you can put off the sensation for a couple of seconds and you keep building upon that.
Elaine Hicks: I just, it's so empowering. You can opt in or opt out of the response.
Julie Michelson: Absolutely. And that takes practice. Yeah, it does take practice. And again, [00:43:00] find a guide, find a lane, find whatever resonates with you. Um, we're not made to, to journey alone. And so, you know, for any of these, it's, it's all retraining, right?
Julie Michelson: It took years for our nervous system to get where it is. And so finding a professional to help you learn to shift it is, is really key.
Elaine Hicks: Really,
Julie Michelson: really key. Well, I love what you're doing. I am so excited about it because I can see for me. You know, my kind of long history and, and it, it just feels like I'm always looking for shortcuts back to that like biohacker brain.
Julie Michelson: Right. And yes, I just said it's a practice. It is a practice. Um, but my whole purpose in life is to empower. People to take charge of their wellness and improve it. And, [00:44:00] and that's what you're doing, is you're, you're allowing people to actually feel the power they have. And that's what keeps us going, right?
Julie Michelson: That's where it's the, the more and more and more. Well, what else can I, what has my body been telling me all these years that I just wasn't, wasn't tapped into? Um, so yeah.
Elaine Hicks: And I, I do wanna throw one more thing in there. Yes. That a lot of the times the people I'm working with have positive benefits in the first session, some of this stuff works right away.
Elaine Hicks: Yes, you need to practice breath work, but here's what makes free diving so amazing as a healing modality is you are playing and when you're playing, you're in that like neuro biochemical opposite of trauma. So, and then in psychology, especially positive psychology, if we are playing, we are more likely to make a change.
Elaine Hicks: If you're playing, you feel safe. If you're safe, you can change your nervous system state. [00:45:00] I love
Julie Michelson: it. And for so many, play is something that is not a big enough presence in their life at whatever point, if they're listening to this podcast. So, um, I love that you, I love that you brought that up. It's that healing power of play and joy while Learning to, to change physiology is amazing.
Elaine Hicks: Yes. And you can go, because all of these should be free cost effect. Like I hate to make people spend money, you know, especially in our economy. If you can get a thing of bubbles and blow bubbles, you can practice your breathing five to 10, you do, or, you know, four to eight, you're blowing through the bubbles, making those bubbles with your exhale.
Elaine Hicks: This is great for kids. To teach them how to read. I did it with a room full of social work students at five o'clock in the afternoon. And when we got back into class, they all started falling asleep because they were [00:46:00] finally relaxed. Relaxed. Physiologically. And I was like, well, I think this backfired a little bit, but it was a good lesson.
Elaine Hicks: I'll do this at the end of class next time. I know. But we wouldn't have had the sunlight to reflect off the bubbles because it was a multi kind of,
Julie Michelson: yeah,
Elaine Hicks: then you can do photography and savor and blah blah so I can have a good time. We can incorporate play in tiny piece.
Julie Michelson: I love that. I think you just answered the question I was going to ask you.
Julie Michelson: But I'm going to ask anyway, in case you want to throw a different one out or just highlight what you just said, which is what is one step listeners can take starting today. I think that's a beautiful one step. It's one that nobody's ever given us before. Um, it makes me want to go run out and get bubbles.
Elaine Hicks: It's so much fun. It really is. You can't be angry and blow bubbles. No. Yeah. So I would say that. And then the other step is get an ice pack, put it on your back, [00:47:00] lay on it for five minutes and see, track your heart rate. See what happens. Track your tension. See what happens. Do you fall asleep? If you fall asleep, then there's your answer.
Elaine Hicks: And I actually land an ice pack every night before bed for about 20 minutes on my mid back. Because if you've had trauma and you're in chronic pain, your body's going to keep up this low state of hypervigilance to protect you. So what's the answer to that? Rest and digest. That's what the MDR is going to do for you.
Elaine Hicks: I love it. It's beautiful.
Julie Michelson: So amazing. Well, Elaine, I so appreciate your time, your wisdom, your just creative approach to helping people not only heal and, but just that empowerment that can lead to, can lead to healing, but it can lead to dreams. being achieved and created and just all kinds of wonderful things.
Julie Michelson: So I'm [00:48:00] really, really grateful for people that are listening on the go and not going to look at the show notes. Where's the best place to find you
Elaine Hicks: on Instagram? I'm the underwater therapist. The only one, the underwear therapist, , or my website, the underwear therapist.com. Uh, and I am on Facebook as well, but I think the most up to date and fun practical stuff is gonna be on on Instagram.
Elaine Hicks: I shared videos and different techniques and um, plus. You also can get the benefit of free diving without touching the water by watching some videos and practicing your breath work while watching them.
Julie Michelson: So amazing. And more tips for healing on land. Yes. Great.
Elaine Hicks: Yeah. Yes. And of course, if anybody wants to come learn how to dive, I would love to be your guide on that journey.
Elaine Hicks: It's so much fun.
Julie Michelson: Fantastic. Hawaii. Here we come. Elaine. Thank you so very much.
Elaine Hicks: Thank you too. This has [00:49:00] been really awesome
Julie Michelson: for everyone listening. Remember you can get the transcripts and show notes by visiting inspired living. show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
Julie Michelson: I'll see you next week.
​[00:50:00]
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My Guest For This Episode
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Connect with Elaine Hicks
Elaine Hicks
Elaine Hicks, LCSW, CSAC Known as "The Underwater Therapist," Elaine Hicks is a licensed clinical social worker, certified substance abuse counselor, and freediving instructor based on Oahu. She specializes in blending trauma-informed therapy with the transformative health benefits of freediving, creating a unique approach to wellness that doesn’t even require stepping into the water.Elaine is the creator of the Hicks DIVE Method (Direct Impact on Vagus Engagement), an integrative psycho-physiological system that focuses on self-regulation, nervous system health, and mental resilience. Through her trauma-informed freediving course and private practice, Elaine empowers individuals to tap into their "8th superpower"—interoception—to unlock healing, manage stress, and connect with their inner calm. With over a decade of experience in mental health and three years as a freediving instructor, she has presented her innovative methods at global freediving events, including 4 Deep Weeks.
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