Episode 122
Katie Wells:
The Journey to Wellness: Transforming Personal Care One Step at a Time
Join us as we welcome back Katie, whose journey from writer to entrepreneur has led her to the forefront of the wellness industry, creating clean and effective personal care products.
Katie sheds light on the pivotal role of consistent, small health choices and the significance of targeting the personal care items that contribute most to chemical exposure.
First Aired on: Jan 15, 2024
Episode 122
Katie Wells:
The Journey to Wellness: Transforming Personal Care One Step at a Time
Join us as we welcome back Katie, whose journey from writer to entrepreneur has led her to the forefront of the wellness industry, creating clean and effective personal care products.
Katie sheds light on the pivotal role of consistent, small health choices and the significance of targeting the personal care items that contribute most to chemical exposure.
First Aired on: Jan 15, 2024
Table of Contents:
In this episode:
Topics Covered
- The importance of simple swaps in personal care for health and ecological benefits.
- Katie’s approach to upleveling personal care products starting with high-impact areas such as the oral microbiome, skin microbiome, and hair care.
- Baby steps in personal care that can make a significant difference over time.
Main Discussion Points
Katie’s journey to starting Wellnesse:
- A combination of her research into oral health and the need for effective products that met natural standards.
- The inception was reluctant but turned into a passionate undertaking.
- The focus on creating products that work as well or better than conventional counterparts without toxic chemicals.
Understanding Oral Health:
- Katie’s personal discovery of the oral microbiome’s role in health.
- The potential for teeth to remineralize from minor cavities.
- The importance of nurturing a balanced oral microbiome for overall wellness.
Product Impact and Safety:
- The products we use in our mouth and on our skin can enter the bloodstream rapidly—this can be beneficial if the products contain supportive and nourishing ingredients.
- Hydroxyapatite as a key ingredient in natural toothpaste for remineralization.
- Wellnesse’s focus on safe, transparent ingredients with external verification such as EWG ratings.
The Importance of Sustainable Practices:
- Wellnesse’s dedication to sustainability, from product formulation to packaging.
- Katie’s perspective on the plastic crisis and choice to utilize biodegradable packaging.
- The B Corp certification that Wellnesse achieved, ensuring the company’s holistic dedication to ethical practices.
Upcoming Products from Wellnesse:
- A new oral care product launching in January aiming to support the oral microbiome and tackle opportunistic bacteria.
- Expansion into body care products and further developments in oral and hair care.
How to Support and Uplevel Your Health
- Prioritize oral care and hair care as they have the greatest impact on health and exposure to chemicals.
- Be wary of greenwashing in the personal care industry; aim for products with external certifications and transparent ingredient lists.
- Consider the impact of clothing and linen care products like laundry detergent on our skin’s microbiome and health.
Resources and Links
- Wellness Mama on Skin Deep EWG database
- Dry Farm Wines
- Branch Basics
- Wellnesse - Use code JM coach for a discount
Other Resources:
Connect with Katie Wells
Episode Transcript
Julie Michelson:[Page//00:00:00] Welcome back to the Inspired Living with Autoimmunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michelson. And today, Katie Wells, aka Wellness Mama, returns to the podcast. Katie is a mom of six bestselling author, award-winning podcaster. The Voice behind the internationally popular website, wellness mama.com, and the founder and CEO of Wellness, A company dedicated to creating natural personal care [Page//00:01:00] products that outperform regular alternative.
Julie Michelson: In today's conversation, we're talking about how simple swaps can support our health as well as our planet. Katie's approach to up leveling personal care products is to start with the areas that have the biggest impact, the oral microbiome, skin microbiome, and hair care.
Julie Michelson: Listen in to learn how taking baby steps with your personal care products can make a big difference over time. Katie, welcome back to the podcast.
Katie Wells: Thanks for having me again. It's always so fun to get to talk to you.
Julie Michelson: We had, have had such amazing feedback, just the value everybody got from you sharing on that kind of more personal level just about your, your journey and, and how you stay healthy and continue to uplevel your health. So I'm really excited today to talk a little bit about the business side of your life.
Julie Michelson: And I want to, I want to dig in to wellness. And I, I want to, I don't want to make assumptions. I [Page//00:02:00] like look at the timeline of. All of the beautiful things you've created but what inspired you to actually go ahead and, I mean, that's a huge undertaking. It's very different from writing to, to go ahead and, and start this amazing company that makes truly clean, safe, sustainable personal care products.
Katie Wells: Well, thanks for asking. I would say the short answer is somewhat reluctantly. But it's actually been an amazing journey. You're right. It's a much bigger undertaking than it sounds like when people in like business groups tell you, Oh, you should do products. And actually for a long time, I would see other people in the health and Mona space launch products.
Katie Wells: And I knew that there was a ton of potential there, but for me. I didn't want to ever just do products to do products. I only wanted to do them if they would be actually serving families and meeting a need. And I had already sort of nerded out in oral health for about a decade. That became a pet research topic of mine.
Katie Wells: When I had at one point during one of my pregnancies, several small cavities pop up [Page//00:03:00] and I didn't want to fill them and during that space between We ended up moving and we're in a different city. So I went to a new dentist and they were like, Oh yeah, your teeth are fine. And I was like, what? And started researching and learning things like that.
Katie Wells: Teeth are capable of remineralizing, especially from really minor cavities, which is not something I had ever encountered before. And it began this whole. Like research wormhole on oral health and the oral microbiome and the mineral interaction of teeth and fat soluble vitamins in the body. And so I had for years been making my own toothpaste and I published in that recipe is still online, but realized there's a lot of somewhat obscure ingredients that go into actually making a good toothpaste that balances the microbiome of the mouth.
Katie Wells: And that, well, even people might think it was a good idea. A lot of them weren't willing. To order all these obscure things and have the mess in their kitchen. And I also realized around that time that even friends in real life who ate organic, who use natural cleaners, who did a lot of the things that I write about on wellness mama, and who lived that [Page//00:04:00] lifestyle naturally.
Katie Wells: A lot of them were still using certain products that were conventional. Because they worked and I realized me included, I didn't want to sacrifice products that worked or my hair feeling a certain way or my teeth looking a certain way for the natural side. And obviously the best answer is both and, but that if, if it was a dichotomy, most people were going to choose the products that worked.
Katie Wells: And so I realized for a natural alternative to actually be a viable alternative, it had to work as well or better than the conventional one. And so I realized also for families. You know, we hear all those stats about the number of chemicals that we encounter on a daily basis, and especially as women, that number is much higher, and how babies are born with now hundreds of chemicals in their cord blood, and that the vast majority of these things have never been even tested or studied at all for safety in humans, and we know those statistics.
Katie Wells: Thankfully, these are now sort of part of the mainstream knowledge. But yeah. And they are in our circles. I feel like it's talked more. But even knowing that [Page//00:05:00] women especially are still encountering so many chemicals on a daily basis. And I realized I use the principle of 80 20 often in life and business, even in like time blocking, I use it all the time.
Katie Wells: And I realized if I applied that to the personal care world, there's actually 20 percent of Product categories in general were responsible for about 80 percent of our exposure and that there was sort of a sliding scale, like things that go in our mouth and or the body more rapidly than things that just go on our skin or the ends of our hair or whatever it would be.
Katie Wells: So I was like, what can I focus on that would 80 20 this problem and help people without a steep learning curve and without products that don't work, tackle that and start to make that shift. Because I also think. With benefits of compounding, even baby steps make a big difference over time. It's not that we need to, you know, massively change everything in one day in our lives to be healthy.
Katie Wells: It's those small, consistent choices that build up to the actually most profound effects over time. And so that led to starting in the oral care space and also the hair care space, because what we put specifically [Page//00:06:00] on our scalp and in our mouth. are an acute exposure to whatever it is. And also a lower level exposure when we're talking about skin or hair.
Katie Wells: And this is the same reason that something like laundry detergent, which we might not even think of as affecting our body. It's on our clothes that we're wearing all day and sometimes all night. And so we're getting both the skin exposure and the low level VOC exposure from inhaling it. And so like Where of that?
Katie Wells: I was like, how can we just change out the 20 percent of products that can reduce exposure by up to 80%? And then I also thought about that with the idea that it needs to work as well as the conventional alternatives and not have toxic chemicals to me in a perfect world. That's the baseline is every product should not have those toxic chemicals.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Katie Wells: Understanding that the majority of what goes on our skin or in our mouth also enters our bloodstream. Can we use that to our advantage? So rather than just avoiding the bad stuff should be in the minimum, how can we put things in these products that actually nourish the scalp or that have the right minerals for the teeth or that provide benefit?
Katie Wells: Like how can we make use of that [Page//00:07:00] principle to actually benefit the body from the outside in while we're also hopefully all. learning about and focused on nourishing our body from the inside out and adopting the healthy lifestyle choices that help the body thrive. How can we also just benefit it through daily habits we're already doing?
Julie Michelson: Oh my goodness. I love that. And I, I can't, I hate to totally put you on the spot. Are you going to make a detergent?
Katie Wells: It
Julie Michelson: I know you have recipes in your
Katie Wells: have, and I will say like, I don't, I'm not an investor or anything in them. But branch basics makes a great concentrate. That's also very eco friendly. And so I, in my house, I use that for most things,
Julie Michelson: Okay.
Katie Wells: but there are things like great options. That's another shift I've seen in the last.
Katie Wells: Now, 16 years of doing this is when I started, I was buying grass fed meat out of the back of an Amish farmer's carriage, and it was probably illegal or on the black market. And I, you are not going to be able to buy things like coconut oil, at least where I lived in the store. And now so many natural products are available, even in big stores or at least [Page//00:08:00] components of them.
Katie Wells: So I'm really excited to see those ships happening, but I do have all the recipes for all these things on site, or there's now thankfully amazing options. You can just buy as well.
Julie Michelson: There are. I, I was. so inspired. And the book for, for me listening, that's not watching the book that I'm referencing is Katie's amazing wellness mama, five step lifestyle detox. Cause literally there are recipes in there for pretty much everything you use. Personal care, household, all the things. And I, I really got like re inspired and motivated when I read the book.
Julie Michelson: Like some of these, they're really easy to make. You make it really accessible. I still haven't done it. So that's why I was like, Okay, this is why I'm so grateful that, you know, you have wellness and, and, and like you said, there are things don't have to be either clean and healthy, you know. Or work well, like you're, you're [Page//00:09:00] bridging that gap and more and more products are.
Julie Michelson: So I'll let you off the hook with the, with the detergent for now, because you have told us how to make our own too.
Katie Wells: And I'm just grateful, like I said, that there are options because I know when I started out, I was on an extremely tight budget. And so the DIY option was also the best option from a budget perspective. And now there are budget friendly ones you can buy as well. But I feel like it's great that there are options for wherever we are in our health journeys and our budgets, whatever it is, there's, there are solutions now.
Katie Wells: So that's really encouraging.
Julie Michelson: And time management and energy, you know, actually it makes me excited to know that you, you're not still making your own detergent. It's like, okay, we have permission to find good products and use those as well. Which is, which is amazing. So was the, the book. Kind of timeline. The book was came out in 2018.
Julie Michelson: Is that correct? And then wellness was 2020.
Katie Wells: Exactly.
Julie Michelson: Okay,
Katie Wells: It was important for me that everything, all the [Page//00:10:00] DIYs would always live in the book, but also on wellness mama and always be accessible. And I want those to be options for people, but I also wanted people to have options if they didn't want to make everything from scratch. Cause you're right.
Katie Wells: It's a huge time investment. If you're going to make everything from scratch.
Julie Michelson: it is. It's huge. And that's where again, that that prioritizing, which we'll dig into a little, a little further. I have a feeling. I want to ask you, because there are not only there, there are more and more, thank goodness, you know, companies coming out that are doing a good job in the various realms of, of cleaner, truly healthy products, but I feel like, you know, the words like natural or clean, you know, like these are buzzwords that are used a lot in marketing.
Julie Michelson: So I want to talk a little bit about Wellness as a company, because you guys are really authentically walking the walk. So [Page//00:11:00] tell us a little bit about your standards and, and how it's not just words, you know, on the front of the package.
Katie Wells: Yeah. I think greenwashing has become quite an issue a little bit in the marketing world right now, as more natural products have gotten popular, they have there's a huge consumer demand for this. And I looked at companies that I really respected and who maintained their product integrity, even as they grew.
Katie Wells: And I felt like an important piece of that for me, at least was going to be the third party verification and the objective verification. And I have used for a really long time, the skin deep EWG database to check ingredients on things, because even products that. The packaging is gorgeous and it looks like it's natural.
Katie Wells: You check it in skin deep and it might have things that are tied to in studies, reproductive harm or other huge problems down the road. And so I wanted people to be able to use that same level of verification for all of our products. set the standards for that, that not just are they safe, but they're like the highest level of safety on EWG, meaning that all of the [Page//00:12:00] ingredients are safe and in theory could be ingested.
Katie Wells: Not that I recommend eating shampoo or toothpaste, but from a safety standpoint, and also from the very beginning, we chose to get B Corp certified, which is a whole extra level of verification. I did not quite know what I was undertaking when I started that process. It's an extremely intensive. They verify everything from your ingredient sourcing to how you're treating your employees to if things are sourced sustainably.
Katie Wells: And I wanted to have that as a benchmark and an external validation that we would always have as a checkpoint for ourselves to make sure that we were never sacrificing any of those things that I consider really important just for the sake of growth. I also, as a business principle, believe that in life income follows outcome.
Katie Wells: And so if you're helping people and if you are aligned, the income will always happen, but I never wanted our choices to be income based first. I wanted them to be impact based first and then to grow in a way that felt aligned and ethical.
Julie Michelson: Which is amazing. And and you guys even you talk about sustain. [Page//00:13:00] I want to touch on two things that I think are exceptionally unique with wellness and you. It comes from you. You take the sustainability even to your packaging, which not all. You know, there are products I know of that are, that are clean and wonderful and truly healthy, but don't have.
Julie Michelson: So you really are going that extra mile. And it just makes me go back to, you know, your journey, your story, you're trying to improve. the planet and life for your children. And so why wouldn't you? Knowing you and knowing your story, it's like, oh, this makes perfect sense. But like, that's a corner that could easily be cut that you guys don't cut.
Katie Wells: Yeah, and an expense. We certainly learned when we started the packaging world, but I've written so much in the past about the problems, especially with single use plastics. And like really the bad categories of plastics that take hundreds or up to a thousand years to break down in the environment and that are still leaving plastic byproducts.
Katie Wells:[Page//00:14:00] And we're seeing plastic residue under 30 feet of ice in the Arctic circles now. So this is something that is a widespread planet wide problem that does not seem to be getting better anytime soon. And every year, the stats on plastic use and single use plastic use, especially go up. And we're seeing this on the health side as well in our kids and their exposure to these endocrine disruptors.
Katie Wells: At earlier and earlier ages and in higher and higher amounts. And we hear about the hormone issues for teenagers and both boys and girls. And all of these seem to be on the rise. So even though it definitely is more expensive to me, it was important to choose things like bioplastics that are biodegradable that can break down without the harmful by products to the environment as well, because like you said, I think that's such an important balance and it's not one we can choose in either or like we need to choose things that are benefiting humans and.
Katie Wells: The environment that we're living in. And my hope is that as companies maybe start doing this more and more, like all of us can hopefully make those choices on an individual basis. And I think there's tremendous power in that grassroots voting with your dollars and the [Page//00:15:00] products you're choosing, but also as big companies get on board and they have economies of scale, we also can see that tide shift more rapidly.
Katie Wells: And so I know people tend to get upset when big companies buy out these smaller companies, but I'm like, if the, if the contracts are good and they're able to maintain their. Quality and their integrity. Now these massive companies have economies of scale on more natural sourcing and products, and we need both to actually shift the tides of what we're seeing.
Katie Wells: We need grassroot movement and families making good choices, and we need big companies making more sustainable choices. So I think it's another both and scenario, and I'm hoping that over time we see more companies stepping into those choices.
Julie Michelson: I love that I have one particular, you know, brand that I was thinking about when I remember this big uproar and kind of the paleo community and I'm for me as somebody who is always. you know, referring her clients to find better products, whether it be food, personal care, household to be able to say, you can just go [Page//00:16:00] to your grocery store and get, you know, XYZ.
Julie Michelson: And like you said, as long as that integrity of the product is, is maintained, I think it, it can be a really good thing. So I love that. I have to circle back, you know, we were talking about third party testing and that's another thing that I think really stands out. You can go to your website and see all of the ingredients and you have the EWG verification and then the numbers there, which that's really, you're not even like leaving it to the consumer.
Julie Michelson: Like, yeah, you can look my stuff up on EWG. It's like you have just taken all of the guesswork out of are these products truly safe and clean or not. And, and some of the ingredients. I you know, for people that have allergies or things like that, it's just really important for them to be able to access like what's in there.
Julie Michelson: So, so thank you.
Katie Wells: You're [Page//00:17:00] welcome. I think, yeah, ingredient transparency is a huge thing, and I am grateful to see more and more companies do this. I'm actually, some of my inspiration for this also came from my friend Todd, who runs Dry Farm Wines, and how they're the largest importer of natural wines, and most of their wines are coming from small family vineyards in Europe, and they're very careful about their sourcing, and they still test all of the wines that they bring in, and To verify that they don't have glyphosate and to verify, verify that they don't have added ingredients.
Katie Wells: And those conversations with him, because the alcohol world is a whole different wild west of ingredients where they don't even have to disclose ingredients at all, and there can be up to like 80 additives in wine that you may never know about. And he explained, you know, sometimes people think they're reacting to wine.
Katie Wells: They're often reacting to a dye that they don't know is in there, or to that are used in the clarification process that are not disclosed. And so. Knowing that many moms and there's many allergy situations, I wanted to make sure that there was always that feeling of safety and transparency and what the ingredients are, because even if something is a natural ingredient, a person could still react to it.
Katie Wells: So to [Page//00:18:00] me, having full transparency is really, really important, especially when you're serving moms and families.
Julie Michelson: Well, I love that. And I commend it as somebody who raised children who had, you know, food allergies and allergies. It just, it's just. Obviously nothing like this existed 28 years ago when I started with my first one who was like this highly allergic kid. But it is, it's, it's, but that's an extra step that you guys are doing that is really unique and special and I just, I, I wanted to point it out because it, there is sometimes this fatigue of trying to do the research of like, okay, you know, is this product truly clean?
Julie Michelson: And so then sometimes people are like, they may research, you know, be like, think they're doing the right thing, right? And that's what the whole greenwashing it's, it can be hard for people. And that's where I say, if you can find these companies like Wellness that you can trust the company. [Page//00:19:00] I know any product you make I can recommend to people and yes, if they have allergies they should double check, you know, you know, they can't do the peppermint or something like that.
Julie Michelson: So it's, it's, it's just an extra layer of caring. I feel like that you guys are putting into the company.
Katie Wells: Oh, thank you.
Julie Michelson: Thank you. It's, wow. So I wanna circle back. You mentioned, you know, start your, your journey with the, the little tiny cavities and, and remineralization and I was thinking, yeah, I wouldn't know, like, can somebody even just get hydroxy appetite
Julie Michelson: Like, I, I would never try to make my own truly healthy toothpaste. We talked. So you talked about how you know the mouth absorbs things into the bloodstream really quickly. And you mentioned the scalp. Like if somebody is listening and and they're new to what I call cleaning it up, right? And and just starting to [Page//00:20:00] realize that that maybe, you know, the products that their mom was using aren't the products they should be using for their kids.
Julie Michelson: Do you have like You know, three things people can do, or, you know, what is your, because you have such knowledge of that, you know, that 80 20, where are we getting the worst things,
Katie Wells: Absolutely. And for me, that's why I kind of if I was gonna put him in categories, oral health would be the top category because that's beyond even just a topical skin exposure that's in the mouth. And there are medications that they put under the tongue because of how rapidly they can be absorbed into the body.
Katie Wells: And so I think this is a unique, like I said, Place to avoid toxins for sure, but also a unique place that you can benefit the body. If you understand everything that's happening within the mouth and the oral microbiome. So to me, that was the starting point. And I found it so many fascinating things when I really delved into the world of the oral microbiome, because not only is that the first step in digestion and it [Page//00:21:00] sends a whole lot of signals back and forth.
Katie Wells: And we now know that, you know, the majority of serotonin is made in the gut and gut health has a direct impact on brain health. So this whole axis is vital, especially in kids. And things like when babies are teething and they often will spike a fever or have seemingly immune reactions. It's because that those microbiomes are interacting for the first time.
Katie Wells: When the teeth are breaking through the gums, there's a microbiome interaction happening. So even at a young age, it's very important to be aware of the microbiome in the mouth. There's also really interesting things like if you've been to the dentist, you might have heard either things about strep mutants, which is the bacteria that leads to cavities or about gingivitis.
Katie Wells: And just like how there can be opportunistic bad bacteria in the gut, there can be in the mouth as well. And those are two of the ones that can happen. They're sort of opposite ends of the spectrum. So often a person will not at the same time be dealing with. the cavity causing bacteria and gingivitis because they're both opportunistic and sort of will take over.
Katie Wells: So the answer there is not to kill all the bacteria in the mouth, just like we are hopefully aware of not to [Page//00:22:00] just throw tons of antibiotics in our gut and kill off our gut bacteria. It's how do we nurture the right beneficial balance of bacteria, understanding that when we have a strong oral microbiome, it's designed to keep those things in check.
Katie Wells: And if. One of those opportunistic bacteria is running rampant and often just means that we're not, we're either there's something in our mouth that we don't need or we're not giving the body what it does need to have an optimal microbiome. And so then it was building, how do we give microbiome supporting things to the mouth as well as the minerals like hydroxyapatite.
Katie Wells: And that was one of the reasons, even one of our odd things is we encourage people not to rinse their mouth at night after they brush their teeth. And to let that stay in the mouth because there are ingredients that are helping both the oral microbiome and the remineralization process while you sleep.
Katie Wells: And so like getting to delve into all of that helps me understand that a lot of these same things we talk about when it comes to gut health actually apply very much in the mouth as well. And then to a little bit lesser of a degree. We also have a skin microbiome and anything that's on [Page//00:23:00] the skin. The ranges vary, but somewhere in the 60 percent range can be absorbed and enter the bloodstream.
Katie Wells: And so again, that means we want to avoid the things that we don't want in our body on our skin as well. But that also means can we put beneficial things in the products that are sitting, for instance, on our scalp all day, because even if we're rinsing out. Shampoo and conditioner traces of that still stay on the scalp or in the hair.
Katie Wells: So we want things that are not harmful to breathe, that are not going to cause low level exposure, that's bad for our lungs, but also that can like nourish the hair follicle with nutrients and support the skin microbiome as well. And so I think when we take the microbiome aspect of personal care into it, it's super fascinating.
Katie Wells: And then I would say the third tier of that would be the little bit more complicated world for women, especially of cosmetics and additional personal care products, I think, starting with. Things like hair care, skin care and oral care are important because those are big categories we can tackle. But just like we talked about in the beginning, women also don't want to sacrifice appearance for the sake of natural.
Katie Wells: And there are now great makeup brands available as well for women who want to wear [Page//00:24:00] makeup. I think that is a bigger category to tackle. And so I always encourage people to start with the things like oral care and hair care first. Because there are bigger categories that are easy to make simple shifts.
Katie Wells: And then just be aware in the other products as you go beyond there.
Julie Michelson: That's a bit. That's such great advice. And, and, you know, we need to take care of our oral microbiome and, and we all need to be whatever your opinion is on, on your cleaning rituals and routines. We all need to do that. And then, you know, the cosmetics become a choice beyond that. And like you said, such a big, I can't even imagine I don't know if that's something that you're planning on tackling in the future or not.
Julie Michelson: But that's another area again, where we have. things available. I know when I first started to pay attention to what I was putting on and in my body, the, the safe choices were kind of gross for makeup or, or not, [Page//00:25:00] not effective. They didn't feel good. There weren't any kind of, you know, higher end. It was all a compromise.
Julie Michelson: It was a really big compromise. So that's an industry as well, that at least now there are. Various options that are that are safe and more and more coming out all the time. But again, it's another industry where greenwashing is rampant and and you really need to do your homework.
Katie Wells: Yes, absolutely.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, so amazing. So this is I love because I know you do so much research and I, I geek out on you geeking, you know, I know what's gone into all of these answers.
Julie Michelson: And so it makes me happy to know that like, kind of the, the way I prioritize with my clients is, is the same. And it's the same with, for me, household products. I, I start with laundry detergent because, you know, you mentioned clothes, but when we, We're washing our sheets and we're sleeping on them all night and we're drying off with our [Page//00:26:00] towels and like you just it literally everything that touches you in your house has has touched her detergent as well.
Julie Michelson: So I, I think I listeners, I'm sure, you know, branch basics is probably wondering why they just had a big surge on laundry detergent it's, it's so, so good. So do you. Have, you know, we, we, you covered a, you're, you do such a good job in hitting the, the different, you know, these three zones. Are you, do you have any new products in the works that are coming out?
Katie Wells: We do. The one I'm I can talk about in loose terms is coming out in January and it's aimed at that oral microbiome piece specifically. So we have the toothpaste that does support the oral microbiome and helps with the mineralization. And this one is helpful in that if you do have an opportunistic bacteria and you don't want to kill your good bacteria, what do you do?
Katie Wells: And the answer there is not mouthwash. I'm somewhat [Page//00:27:00] I would say very anti conventional mouthwash because it would be similar to the antibiotic idea in the gut. It's going to kill off everything and then now you have to rebuild and most of us don't have habits that are supporting rebuilding that good bacteria.
Katie Wells: So now you're putting yourself in a deficit and even among some dentists mouthwash is the recommended option. So I wanted to find something that would be. oral healthy, good microbiome supportive and also help tackle the opportunistic bacteria that can take over in the mouth. So that's coming in January.
Katie Wells: And then I feel like in the oral category, all the research is around ways to support that. So we even have a probiotic mints for instance, that you can use to nurture your,
Julie Michelson: excited.
Katie Wells: and those are out but expanding more into. All within the personal care umbrella, but into like body care and some new oral health and hair care products as well.
Julie Michelson: Awesome. I can't wait. I, I have to say I was then this is not what I was planning on talking about. But you guys make a, a dry shampoo.
Katie Wells: We [Page//00:28:00] do for now it's seasonally rotating out just because we felt like that didn't serve as many people as
Julie Michelson: Okay. I was surprised. But then also impressed. how you could even make a dry shampoo that's not terrible for you and knowing you that it's also good for you somehow. So I, I just was like, I, it was fascinating to me cause I felt like, wow, that talk about going beyond the basics. Right. So,
Katie Wells: Well, and we do have like floss and floss picks that both don't put microplastics into your gums which I felt was important and deodorant because that's a category we haven't even talked about yet, but we have so much lymphatic interaction that happens in the armpits and the majority of conventional deodorants.
Katie Wells: are violating that principle of at least don't put the really bad stuff on your body. And they're putting even things like aluminum directly over lymphatic spots, especially like the left armpit, 75 percent of our lymphatic drainage happens on the left side of the body between the armpit and that spot in your collarbone.
Katie Wells: And so when we're [Page//00:29:00] essentially blocking lymphatic activity, This is not just not put it. I mean, this is now category of not just don't put the bad things on your body, but also don't put things that are inhibiting your lymphatic function, which is vital to detox and so many other things. And so this is a microbiome supporting and not lymphatic blocking deodorant.
Julie Michelson: Which is, which is amazing, and that is, I always, the two personal care products I start with with my clients, toothpaste and deodorant, and God forbid they're using antiperspirant, so I love that, that you, you mentioned that. I know, do you find, once people have changed lifestyle, gotten healthy, detoxed, kept, kept their detox pathways open, don't you find that then there is no body odor?
Julie Michelson: No.
Katie Wells: Yes, but I do feel like that's like it can be a bell curve and the adjustment period, especially if you have years and years of using an antiperspirant and you've shut down those detox pathways. I know that adjustment phase firsthand, I know it can be uncomfortable. And so I even have [Page//00:30:00] on wellness mama, a post about how to detox your armpits.
Katie Wells: If you have used antiperspirants because people will often react. To natural deodorant. And that can be for reasons like if you're making your own, if the baking soda percentage is too high, now you're just disturbing the pH of the skin and you're getting a reaction, but it can also be if you're putting things that have natural drawing properties, like these more natural oils and butters or baking soda.
Katie Wells: On the skin. It's helping pull some of that stuff out, which can be uncomfortable in the adjustment period. So for people who experience that, I encourage them to try detoxing their armpits to actually get that lymphatic flow working again. And that that often solves the issue of the natural deodorant.
Katie Wells: But I have found at least online. A lot of the recipes for homemade ones tend to have a little bit too much baking soda and the pH is a little bit off and that's why people react to it. So that was our other thing to tackle is how do we address the skin microbiome address not. Interrupting the lymphatic function of the armpits and also hit a range for pH that's natural to the skin.
Katie Wells: That's not going to lead to rashes[Page//00:31:00]
Julie Michelson: I love that you, because people think they're actually just sensitive to baking soda. So, see, you just taught everybody it's, it's a pH issue and, and not necessarily a baking soda problem. Which is, is important to differentiate because I know people that have tried to switch on to, to cleaner deodorants and had issues.
Julie Michelson: And then they're like, well, now what do I do? I'm going to go back to my Horribly, you know, toxic lymphatic blocking stuff I was using before. So don't throw in the towel. You guys have to try the, the, the proper balance. And that's that level of detail that I was talking about before that I think really sets wellness apart.
Julie Michelson: You guys do just, it's an incredible job.
Katie Wells: Well, thank you And I think it's like that as above so below thing and so many of the things you talk about as well are important And if people are experiencing that reaction, it's looking at also what's going on inside the body and Are magnesium levels low? [Page//00:32:00] Because that can make a difference in body odor.
Katie Wells: Are you getting enough micronutrients and basic hydration? Like often the things we're experiencing on our skin are a great window into what's actually going on in our body or our liver or something else. And so I always try to say symptoms are a messenger and I would say even a gift. And so if you're experiencing any of those reactions, that's awesome.
Katie Wells: It's telling you something about perhaps what's going on inside your body that gives you a plan to address that thing.
Julie Michelson: So, such sage advice people always ask me, you know, how does she know so much? And she, you know, looks like she's 14, which we know you're not, you know, we know you're, but you are like the poster child for, for truly clean living. Because it is amazing. I mean, the, we didn't talk about, you guys have to check out episode 106, if you didn't hear it.
Julie Michelson: Where we dig into Katie's personal journey and family life and, and just how you maintain this level of wellness and in your own life while being such [Page//00:33:00] powerhouse in the wellness industry. So, and look, you know, like a kid while you're doing it all. So, and I know you haven't always felt like that on the inside.
Julie Michelson: So it gives all of us inspiration. It's amazing. Well, I'm really excited to watch. The product lines expand and grow and just really grateful for for the resource that wellness is for everybody who's trying to do better. Everyone who is educating and learning and and making those shifts.
Katie Wells: Well, thank you. And you're such a powerhouse on the education side as well. And I'm so grateful for voices like yours that are helping people decipher and understand. And like a thing I say, probably to the point of exhaustion on my podcast is where you are each our own primary healthcare provider. And while we can work with practitioners who are awesome partners in that, we still have that responsibility and we're still the ones making daily choices.
Katie Wells: That can either improve or harm our health. And so I love all the things that you talk about and how, how many resources [Page//00:34:00] you give people for education to understand and take ownership of their health.
Julie Michelson: Well, I thank you and, and so grateful for you again, sharing. And, and if you guys haven't checked out the wellness mama, wellness mama. com, I mean, talk about a plethora of education and, you know, there are articles there. I don't know. Do you just write like all the time there? There are articles there about pretty much any question you might have that relates to wellness or organization or all the things.
Katie Wells: Thank you. Yeah, I have done a lot of writing over the years. I think it's like 1500 blog posts now and writing's an outlet for me. So that was a great, as I was on my own journey, it was a great way to process the information and to synthesize it. And I, I think a lot of people from Einstein to Feynman and all the ones in between have quotes about, you don't really understand something until you can explain it to someone else in simple terms.
Katie Wells: And so I feel like in that sense, I've, I'm so grateful for all the benefit I've gotten from getting to write all [Page//00:35:00] those things and from to interact with this amazing community of moms and to learn as I go. With everybody. So I'm just, I'm super grateful every day for that.
Julie Michelson: Well, we are grateful that you have shared so much of your journey and, again, for the people that are like me, that are, you know, super geeky, like, I love the fact that it's not just sharing your journey, like, you're a research fanatic, it seems like, and so I appreciate that, you know. It's it's there is everything is backed, you know, you're not just like randomly offering advice to people.
Julie Michelson: So it is. It's amazing. I cannot encourage listeners enough like go to wellness. It's W. E. L. L. N. E. S. S. E. Dot com. And and check out the products. It's just such a great way to to up level your health that doesn't even take effort. I mean, that's the thing when we just start up leveling the [Page//00:36:00] products and you're brushing your teeth.
Julie Michelson: Anyway, you might as well be using something that is not only not bad for you, but supporting your oral microbiome at the same time and supporting your health and wellness. So, and you guys can use JM coach for a discount, the, the to just to get you jumpstarted. So Katie, thank you so, so much for coming back and sharing more about just the contribution you're making to the wellness space.
Katie Wells: Thank you again for having me. And it's such a joy to talk to you. I love our conversations and I'm so grateful.
Julie Michelson: Thank you for everyone listening. Remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living dot show. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week. [Page//00:37:00]
Julie Michelson: In today's conversation, we're talking about how simple swaps can support our health as well as our planet. Katie's approach to up leveling personal care products is to start with the areas that have the biggest impact, the oral microbiome, skin microbiome, and hair care.
Julie Michelson: Listen in to learn how taking baby steps with your personal care products can make a big difference over time. Katie, welcome back to the podcast.
Katie Wells: Thanks for having me again. It's always so fun to get to talk to you.
Julie Michelson: We had, have had such amazing feedback, just the value everybody got from you sharing on that kind of more personal level just about your, your journey and, and how you stay healthy and continue to uplevel your health. So I'm really excited today to talk a little bit about the business side of your life.
Julie Michelson: And I want to, I want to dig in to wellness. And I, I want to, I don't want to make assumptions. I [Page//00:02:00] like look at the timeline of. All of the beautiful things you've created but what inspired you to actually go ahead and, I mean, that's a huge undertaking. It's very different from writing to, to go ahead and, and start this amazing company that makes truly clean, safe, sustainable personal care products.
Katie Wells: Well, thanks for asking. I would say the short answer is somewhat reluctantly. But it's actually been an amazing journey. You're right. It's a much bigger undertaking than it sounds like when people in like business groups tell you, Oh, you should do products. And actually for a long time, I would see other people in the health and Mona space launch products.
Katie Wells: And I knew that there was a ton of potential there, but for me. I didn't want to ever just do products to do products. I only wanted to do them if they would be actually serving families and meeting a need. And I had already sort of nerded out in oral health for about a decade. That became a pet research topic of mine.
Katie Wells: When I had at one point during one of my pregnancies, several small cavities pop up [Page//00:03:00] and I didn't want to fill them and during that space between We ended up moving and we're in a different city. So I went to a new dentist and they were like, Oh yeah, your teeth are fine. And I was like, what? And started researching and learning things like that.
Katie Wells: Teeth are capable of remineralizing, especially from really minor cavities, which is not something I had ever encountered before. And it began this whole. Like research wormhole on oral health and the oral microbiome and the mineral interaction of teeth and fat soluble vitamins in the body. And so I had for years been making my own toothpaste and I published in that recipe is still online, but realized there's a lot of somewhat obscure ingredients that go into actually making a good toothpaste that balances the microbiome of the mouth.
Katie Wells: And that, well, even people might think it was a good idea. A lot of them weren't willing. To order all these obscure things and have the mess in their kitchen. And I also realized around that time that even friends in real life who ate organic, who use natural cleaners, who did a lot of the things that I write about on wellness mama, and who lived that [Page//00:04:00] lifestyle naturally.
Katie Wells: A lot of them were still using certain products that were conventional. Because they worked and I realized me included, I didn't want to sacrifice products that worked or my hair feeling a certain way or my teeth looking a certain way for the natural side. And obviously the best answer is both and, but that if, if it was a dichotomy, most people were going to choose the products that worked.
Katie Wells: And so I realized for a natural alternative to actually be a viable alternative, it had to work as well or better than the conventional one. And so I realized also for families. You know, we hear all those stats about the number of chemicals that we encounter on a daily basis, and especially as women, that number is much higher, and how babies are born with now hundreds of chemicals in their cord blood, and that the vast majority of these things have never been even tested or studied at all for safety in humans, and we know those statistics.
Katie Wells: Thankfully, these are now sort of part of the mainstream knowledge. But yeah. And they are in our circles. I feel like it's talked more. But even knowing that [Page//00:05:00] women especially are still encountering so many chemicals on a daily basis. And I realized I use the principle of 80 20 often in life and business, even in like time blocking, I use it all the time.
Katie Wells: And I realized if I applied that to the personal care world, there's actually 20 percent of Product categories in general were responsible for about 80 percent of our exposure and that there was sort of a sliding scale, like things that go in our mouth and or the body more rapidly than things that just go on our skin or the ends of our hair or whatever it would be.
Katie Wells: So I was like, what can I focus on that would 80 20 this problem and help people without a steep learning curve and without products that don't work, tackle that and start to make that shift. Because I also think. With benefits of compounding, even baby steps make a big difference over time. It's not that we need to, you know, massively change everything in one day in our lives to be healthy.
Katie Wells: It's those small, consistent choices that build up to the actually most profound effects over time. And so that led to starting in the oral care space and also the hair care space, because what we put specifically [Page//00:06:00] on our scalp and in our mouth. are an acute exposure to whatever it is. And also a lower level exposure when we're talking about skin or hair.
Katie Wells: And this is the same reason that something like laundry detergent, which we might not even think of as affecting our body. It's on our clothes that we're wearing all day and sometimes all night. And so we're getting both the skin exposure and the low level VOC exposure from inhaling it. And so like Where of that?
Katie Wells: I was like, how can we just change out the 20 percent of products that can reduce exposure by up to 80%? And then I also thought about that with the idea that it needs to work as well as the conventional alternatives and not have toxic chemicals to me in a perfect world. That's the baseline is every product should not have those toxic chemicals.
Julie Michelson: Right.
Katie Wells: Understanding that the majority of what goes on our skin or in our mouth also enters our bloodstream. Can we use that to our advantage? So rather than just avoiding the bad stuff should be in the minimum, how can we put things in these products that actually nourish the scalp or that have the right minerals for the teeth or that provide benefit?
Katie Wells: Like how can we make use of that [Page//00:07:00] principle to actually benefit the body from the outside in while we're also hopefully all. learning about and focused on nourishing our body from the inside out and adopting the healthy lifestyle choices that help the body thrive. How can we also just benefit it through daily habits we're already doing?
Julie Michelson: Oh my goodness. I love that. And I, I can't, I hate to totally put you on the spot. Are you going to make a detergent?
Katie Wells: It
Julie Michelson: I know you have recipes in your
Katie Wells: have, and I will say like, I don't, I'm not an investor or anything in them. But branch basics makes a great concentrate. That's also very eco friendly. And so I, in my house, I use that for most things,
Julie Michelson: Okay.
Katie Wells: but there are things like great options. That's another shift I've seen in the last.
Katie Wells: Now, 16 years of doing this is when I started, I was buying grass fed meat out of the back of an Amish farmer's carriage, and it was probably illegal or on the black market. And I, you are not going to be able to buy things like coconut oil, at least where I lived in the store. And now so many natural products are available, even in big stores or at least [Page//00:08:00] components of them.
Katie Wells: So I'm really excited to see those ships happening, but I do have all the recipes for all these things on site, or there's now thankfully amazing options. You can just buy as well.
Julie Michelson: There are. I, I was. so inspired. And the book for, for me listening, that's not watching the book that I'm referencing is Katie's amazing wellness mama, five step lifestyle detox. Cause literally there are recipes in there for pretty much everything you use. Personal care, household, all the things. And I, I really got like re inspired and motivated when I read the book.
Julie Michelson: Like some of these, they're really easy to make. You make it really accessible. I still haven't done it. So that's why I was like, Okay, this is why I'm so grateful that, you know, you have wellness and, and, and like you said, there are things don't have to be either clean and healthy, you know. Or work well, like you're, you're [Page//00:09:00] bridging that gap and more and more products are.
Julie Michelson: So I'll let you off the hook with the, with the detergent for now, because you have told us how to make our own too.
Katie Wells: And I'm just grateful, like I said, that there are options because I know when I started out, I was on an extremely tight budget. And so the DIY option was also the best option from a budget perspective. And now there are budget friendly ones you can buy as well. But I feel like it's great that there are options for wherever we are in our health journeys and our budgets, whatever it is, there's, there are solutions now.
Katie Wells: So that's really encouraging.
Julie Michelson: And time management and energy, you know, actually it makes me excited to know that you, you're not still making your own detergent. It's like, okay, we have permission to find good products and use those as well. Which is, which is amazing. So was the, the book. Kind of timeline. The book was came out in 2018.
Julie Michelson: Is that correct? And then wellness was 2020.
Katie Wells: Exactly.
Julie Michelson: Okay,
Katie Wells: It was important for me that everything, all the [Page//00:10:00] DIYs would always live in the book, but also on wellness mama and always be accessible. And I want those to be options for people, but I also wanted people to have options if they didn't want to make everything from scratch. Cause you're right.
Katie Wells: It's a huge time investment. If you're going to make everything from scratch.
Julie Michelson: it is. It's huge. And that's where again, that that prioritizing, which we'll dig into a little, a little further. I have a feeling. I want to ask you, because there are not only there, there are more and more, thank goodness, you know, companies coming out that are doing a good job in the various realms of, of cleaner, truly healthy products, but I feel like, you know, the words like natural or clean, you know, like these are buzzwords that are used a lot in marketing.
Julie Michelson: So I want to talk a little bit about Wellness as a company, because you guys are really authentically walking the walk. So [Page//00:11:00] tell us a little bit about your standards and, and how it's not just words, you know, on the front of the package.
Katie Wells: Yeah. I think greenwashing has become quite an issue a little bit in the marketing world right now, as more natural products have gotten popular, they have there's a huge consumer demand for this. And I looked at companies that I really respected and who maintained their product integrity, even as they grew.
Katie Wells: And I felt like an important piece of that for me, at least was going to be the third party verification and the objective verification. And I have used for a really long time, the skin deep EWG database to check ingredients on things, because even products that. The packaging is gorgeous and it looks like it's natural.
Katie Wells: You check it in skin deep and it might have things that are tied to in studies, reproductive harm or other huge problems down the road. And so I wanted people to be able to use that same level of verification for all of our products. set the standards for that, that not just are they safe, but they're like the highest level of safety on EWG, meaning that all of the [Page//00:12:00] ingredients are safe and in theory could be ingested.
Katie Wells: Not that I recommend eating shampoo or toothpaste, but from a safety standpoint, and also from the very beginning, we chose to get B Corp certified, which is a whole extra level of verification. I did not quite know what I was undertaking when I started that process. It's an extremely intensive. They verify everything from your ingredient sourcing to how you're treating your employees to if things are sourced sustainably.
Katie Wells: And I wanted to have that as a benchmark and an external validation that we would always have as a checkpoint for ourselves to make sure that we were never sacrificing any of those things that I consider really important just for the sake of growth. I also, as a business principle, believe that in life income follows outcome.
Katie Wells: And so if you're helping people and if you are aligned, the income will always happen, but I never wanted our choices to be income based first. I wanted them to be impact based first and then to grow in a way that felt aligned and ethical.
Julie Michelson: Which is amazing. And and you guys even you talk about sustain. [Page//00:13:00] I want to touch on two things that I think are exceptionally unique with wellness and you. It comes from you. You take the sustainability even to your packaging, which not all. You know, there are products I know of that are, that are clean and wonderful and truly healthy, but don't have.
Julie Michelson: So you really are going that extra mile. And it just makes me go back to, you know, your journey, your story, you're trying to improve. the planet and life for your children. And so why wouldn't you? Knowing you and knowing your story, it's like, oh, this makes perfect sense. But like, that's a corner that could easily be cut that you guys don't cut.
Katie Wells: Yeah, and an expense. We certainly learned when we started the packaging world, but I've written so much in the past about the problems, especially with single use plastics. And like really the bad categories of plastics that take hundreds or up to a thousand years to break down in the environment and that are still leaving plastic byproducts.
Katie Wells:[Page//00:14:00] And we're seeing plastic residue under 30 feet of ice in the Arctic circles now. So this is something that is a widespread planet wide problem that does not seem to be getting better anytime soon. And every year, the stats on plastic use and single use plastic use, especially go up. And we're seeing this on the health side as well in our kids and their exposure to these endocrine disruptors.
Katie Wells: At earlier and earlier ages and in higher and higher amounts. And we hear about the hormone issues for teenagers and both boys and girls. And all of these seem to be on the rise. So even though it definitely is more expensive to me, it was important to choose things like bioplastics that are biodegradable that can break down without the harmful by products to the environment as well, because like you said, I think that's such an important balance and it's not one we can choose in either or like we need to choose things that are benefiting humans and.
Katie Wells: The environment that we're living in. And my hope is that as companies maybe start doing this more and more, like all of us can hopefully make those choices on an individual basis. And I think there's tremendous power in that grassroots voting with your dollars and the [Page//00:15:00] products you're choosing, but also as big companies get on board and they have economies of scale, we also can see that tide shift more rapidly.
Katie Wells: And so I know people tend to get upset when big companies buy out these smaller companies, but I'm like, if the, if the contracts are good and they're able to maintain their. Quality and their integrity. Now these massive companies have economies of scale on more natural sourcing and products, and we need both to actually shift the tides of what we're seeing.
Katie Wells: We need grassroot movement and families making good choices, and we need big companies making more sustainable choices. So I think it's another both and scenario, and I'm hoping that over time we see more companies stepping into those choices.
Julie Michelson: I love that I have one particular, you know, brand that I was thinking about when I remember this big uproar and kind of the paleo community and I'm for me as somebody who is always. you know, referring her clients to find better products, whether it be food, personal care, household to be able to say, you can just go [Page//00:16:00] to your grocery store and get, you know, XYZ.
Julie Michelson: And like you said, as long as that integrity of the product is, is maintained, I think it, it can be a really good thing. So I love that. I have to circle back, you know, we were talking about third party testing and that's another thing that I think really stands out. You can go to your website and see all of the ingredients and you have the EWG verification and then the numbers there, which that's really, you're not even like leaving it to the consumer.
Julie Michelson: Like, yeah, you can look my stuff up on EWG. It's like you have just taken all of the guesswork out of are these products truly safe and clean or not. And, and some of the ingredients. I you know, for people that have allergies or things like that, it's just really important for them to be able to access like what's in there.
Julie Michelson: So, so thank you.
Katie Wells: You're [Page//00:17:00] welcome. I think, yeah, ingredient transparency is a huge thing, and I am grateful to see more and more companies do this. I'm actually, some of my inspiration for this also came from my friend Todd, who runs Dry Farm Wines, and how they're the largest importer of natural wines, and most of their wines are coming from small family vineyards in Europe, and they're very careful about their sourcing, and they still test all of the wines that they bring in, and To verify that they don't have glyphosate and to verify, verify that they don't have added ingredients.
Katie Wells: And those conversations with him, because the alcohol world is a whole different wild west of ingredients where they don't even have to disclose ingredients at all, and there can be up to like 80 additives in wine that you may never know about. And he explained, you know, sometimes people think they're reacting to wine.
Katie Wells: They're often reacting to a dye that they don't know is in there, or to that are used in the clarification process that are not disclosed. And so. Knowing that many moms and there's many allergy situations, I wanted to make sure that there was always that feeling of safety and transparency and what the ingredients are, because even if something is a natural ingredient, a person could still react to it.
Katie Wells: So to [Page//00:18:00] me, having full transparency is really, really important, especially when you're serving moms and families.
Julie Michelson: Well, I love that. And I commend it as somebody who raised children who had, you know, food allergies and allergies. It just, it's just. Obviously nothing like this existed 28 years ago when I started with my first one who was like this highly allergic kid. But it is, it's, it's, but that's an extra step that you guys are doing that is really unique and special and I just, I, I wanted to point it out because it, there is sometimes this fatigue of trying to do the research of like, okay, you know, is this product truly clean?
Julie Michelson: And so then sometimes people are like, they may research, you know, be like, think they're doing the right thing, right? And that's what the whole greenwashing it's, it can be hard for people. And that's where I say, if you can find these companies like Wellness that you can trust the company. [Page//00:19:00] I know any product you make I can recommend to people and yes, if they have allergies they should double check, you know, you know, they can't do the peppermint or something like that.
Julie Michelson: So it's, it's, it's just an extra layer of caring. I feel like that you guys are putting into the company.
Katie Wells: Oh, thank you.
Julie Michelson: Thank you. It's, wow. So I wanna circle back. You mentioned, you know, start your, your journey with the, the little tiny cavities and, and remineralization and I was thinking, yeah, I wouldn't know, like, can somebody even just get hydroxy appetite
Julie Michelson: Like, I, I would never try to make my own truly healthy toothpaste. We talked. So you talked about how you know the mouth absorbs things into the bloodstream really quickly. And you mentioned the scalp. Like if somebody is listening and and they're new to what I call cleaning it up, right? And and just starting to [Page//00:20:00] realize that that maybe, you know, the products that their mom was using aren't the products they should be using for their kids.
Julie Michelson: Do you have like You know, three things people can do, or, you know, what is your, because you have such knowledge of that, you know, that 80 20, where are we getting the worst things,
Katie Wells: Absolutely. And for me, that's why I kind of if I was gonna put him in categories, oral health would be the top category because that's beyond even just a topical skin exposure that's in the mouth. And there are medications that they put under the tongue because of how rapidly they can be absorbed into the body.
Katie Wells: And so I think this is a unique, like I said, Place to avoid toxins for sure, but also a unique place that you can benefit the body. If you understand everything that's happening within the mouth and the oral microbiome. So to me, that was the starting point. And I found it so many fascinating things when I really delved into the world of the oral microbiome, because not only is that the first step in digestion and it [Page//00:21:00] sends a whole lot of signals back and forth.
Katie Wells: And we now know that, you know, the majority of serotonin is made in the gut and gut health has a direct impact on brain health. So this whole axis is vital, especially in kids. And things like when babies are teething and they often will spike a fever or have seemingly immune reactions. It's because that those microbiomes are interacting for the first time.
Katie Wells: When the teeth are breaking through the gums, there's a microbiome interaction happening. So even at a young age, it's very important to be aware of the microbiome in the mouth. There's also really interesting things like if you've been to the dentist, you might have heard either things about strep mutants, which is the bacteria that leads to cavities or about gingivitis.
Katie Wells: And just like how there can be opportunistic bad bacteria in the gut, there can be in the mouth as well. And those are two of the ones that can happen. They're sort of opposite ends of the spectrum. So often a person will not at the same time be dealing with. the cavity causing bacteria and gingivitis because they're both opportunistic and sort of will take over.
Katie Wells: So the answer there is not to kill all the bacteria in the mouth, just like we are hopefully aware of not to [Page//00:22:00] just throw tons of antibiotics in our gut and kill off our gut bacteria. It's how do we nurture the right beneficial balance of bacteria, understanding that when we have a strong oral microbiome, it's designed to keep those things in check.
Katie Wells: And if. One of those opportunistic bacteria is running rampant and often just means that we're not, we're either there's something in our mouth that we don't need or we're not giving the body what it does need to have an optimal microbiome. And so then it was building, how do we give microbiome supporting things to the mouth as well as the minerals like hydroxyapatite.
Katie Wells: And that was one of the reasons, even one of our odd things is we encourage people not to rinse their mouth at night after they brush their teeth. And to let that stay in the mouth because there are ingredients that are helping both the oral microbiome and the remineralization process while you sleep.
Katie Wells: And so like getting to delve into all of that helps me understand that a lot of these same things we talk about when it comes to gut health actually apply very much in the mouth as well. And then to a little bit lesser of a degree. We also have a skin microbiome and anything that's on [Page//00:23:00] the skin. The ranges vary, but somewhere in the 60 percent range can be absorbed and enter the bloodstream.
Katie Wells: And so again, that means we want to avoid the things that we don't want in our body on our skin as well. But that also means can we put beneficial things in the products that are sitting, for instance, on our scalp all day, because even if we're rinsing out. Shampoo and conditioner traces of that still stay on the scalp or in the hair.
Katie Wells: So we want things that are not harmful to breathe, that are not going to cause low level exposure, that's bad for our lungs, but also that can like nourish the hair follicle with nutrients and support the skin microbiome as well. And so I think when we take the microbiome aspect of personal care into it, it's super fascinating.
Katie Wells: And then I would say the third tier of that would be the little bit more complicated world for women, especially of cosmetics and additional personal care products, I think, starting with. Things like hair care, skin care and oral care are important because those are big categories we can tackle. But just like we talked about in the beginning, women also don't want to sacrifice appearance for the sake of natural.
Katie Wells: And there are now great makeup brands available as well for women who want to wear [Page//00:24:00] makeup. I think that is a bigger category to tackle. And so I always encourage people to start with the things like oral care and hair care first. Because there are bigger categories that are easy to make simple shifts.
Katie Wells: And then just be aware in the other products as you go beyond there.
Julie Michelson: That's a bit. That's such great advice. And, and, you know, we need to take care of our oral microbiome and, and we all need to be whatever your opinion is on, on your cleaning rituals and routines. We all need to do that. And then, you know, the cosmetics become a choice beyond that. And like you said, such a big, I can't even imagine I don't know if that's something that you're planning on tackling in the future or not.
Julie Michelson: But that's another area again, where we have. things available. I know when I first started to pay attention to what I was putting on and in my body, the, the safe choices were kind of gross for makeup or, or not, [Page//00:25:00] not effective. They didn't feel good. There weren't any kind of, you know, higher end. It was all a compromise.
Julie Michelson: It was a really big compromise. So that's an industry as well, that at least now there are. Various options that are that are safe and more and more coming out all the time. But again, it's another industry where greenwashing is rampant and and you really need to do your homework.
Katie Wells: Yes, absolutely.
Julie Michelson: Yeah, so amazing. So this is I love because I know you do so much research and I, I geek out on you geeking, you know, I know what's gone into all of these answers.
Julie Michelson: And so it makes me happy to know that like, kind of the, the way I prioritize with my clients is, is the same. And it's the same with, for me, household products. I, I start with laundry detergent because, you know, you mentioned clothes, but when we, We're washing our sheets and we're sleeping on them all night and we're drying off with our [Page//00:26:00] towels and like you just it literally everything that touches you in your house has has touched her detergent as well.
Julie Michelson: So I, I think I listeners, I'm sure, you know, branch basics is probably wondering why they just had a big surge on laundry detergent it's, it's so, so good. So do you. Have, you know, we, we, you covered a, you're, you do such a good job in hitting the, the different, you know, these three zones. Are you, do you have any new products in the works that are coming out?
Katie Wells: We do. The one I'm I can talk about in loose terms is coming out in January and it's aimed at that oral microbiome piece specifically. So we have the toothpaste that does support the oral microbiome and helps with the mineralization. And this one is helpful in that if you do have an opportunistic bacteria and you don't want to kill your good bacteria, what do you do?
Katie Wells: And the answer there is not mouthwash. I'm somewhat [Page//00:27:00] I would say very anti conventional mouthwash because it would be similar to the antibiotic idea in the gut. It's going to kill off everything and then now you have to rebuild and most of us don't have habits that are supporting rebuilding that good bacteria.
Katie Wells: So now you're putting yourself in a deficit and even among some dentists mouthwash is the recommended option. So I wanted to find something that would be. oral healthy, good microbiome supportive and also help tackle the opportunistic bacteria that can take over in the mouth. So that's coming in January.
Katie Wells: And then I feel like in the oral category, all the research is around ways to support that. So we even have a probiotic mints for instance, that you can use to nurture your,
Julie Michelson: excited.
Katie Wells: and those are out but expanding more into. All within the personal care umbrella, but into like body care and some new oral health and hair care products as well.
Julie Michelson: Awesome. I can't wait. I, I have to say I was then this is not what I was planning on talking about. But you guys make a, a dry shampoo.
Katie Wells: We [Page//00:28:00] do for now it's seasonally rotating out just because we felt like that didn't serve as many people as
Julie Michelson: Okay. I was surprised. But then also impressed. how you could even make a dry shampoo that's not terrible for you and knowing you that it's also good for you somehow. So I, I just was like, I, it was fascinating to me cause I felt like, wow, that talk about going beyond the basics. Right. So,
Katie Wells: Well, and we do have like floss and floss picks that both don't put microplastics into your gums which I felt was important and deodorant because that's a category we haven't even talked about yet, but we have so much lymphatic interaction that happens in the armpits and the majority of conventional deodorants.
Katie Wells: are violating that principle of at least don't put the really bad stuff on your body. And they're putting even things like aluminum directly over lymphatic spots, especially like the left armpit, 75 percent of our lymphatic drainage happens on the left side of the body between the armpit and that spot in your collarbone.
Katie Wells: And so when we're [Page//00:29:00] essentially blocking lymphatic activity, This is not just not put it. I mean, this is now category of not just don't put the bad things on your body, but also don't put things that are inhibiting your lymphatic function, which is vital to detox and so many other things. And so this is a microbiome supporting and not lymphatic blocking deodorant.
Julie Michelson: Which is, which is amazing, and that is, I always, the two personal care products I start with with my clients, toothpaste and deodorant, and God forbid they're using antiperspirant, so I love that, that you, you mentioned that. I know, do you find, once people have changed lifestyle, gotten healthy, detoxed, kept, kept their detox pathways open, don't you find that then there is no body odor?
Julie Michelson: No.
Katie Wells: Yes, but I do feel like that's like it can be a bell curve and the adjustment period, especially if you have years and years of using an antiperspirant and you've shut down those detox pathways. I know that adjustment phase firsthand, I know it can be uncomfortable. And so I even have [Page//00:30:00] on wellness mama, a post about how to detox your armpits.
Katie Wells: If you have used antiperspirants because people will often react. To natural deodorant. And that can be for reasons like if you're making your own, if the baking soda percentage is too high, now you're just disturbing the pH of the skin and you're getting a reaction, but it can also be if you're putting things that have natural drawing properties, like these more natural oils and butters or baking soda.
Katie Wells: On the skin. It's helping pull some of that stuff out, which can be uncomfortable in the adjustment period. So for people who experience that, I encourage them to try detoxing their armpits to actually get that lymphatic flow working again. And that that often solves the issue of the natural deodorant.
Katie Wells: But I have found at least online. A lot of the recipes for homemade ones tend to have a little bit too much baking soda and the pH is a little bit off and that's why people react to it. So that was our other thing to tackle is how do we address the skin microbiome address not. Interrupting the lymphatic function of the armpits and also hit a range for pH that's natural to the skin.
Katie Wells: That's not going to lead to rashes[Page//00:31:00]
Julie Michelson: I love that you, because people think they're actually just sensitive to baking soda. So, see, you just taught everybody it's, it's a pH issue and, and not necessarily a baking soda problem. Which is, is important to differentiate because I know people that have tried to switch on to, to cleaner deodorants and had issues.
Julie Michelson: And then they're like, well, now what do I do? I'm going to go back to my Horribly, you know, toxic lymphatic blocking stuff I was using before. So don't throw in the towel. You guys have to try the, the, the proper balance. And that's that level of detail that I was talking about before that I think really sets wellness apart.
Julie Michelson: You guys do just, it's an incredible job.
Katie Wells: Well, thank you And I think it's like that as above so below thing and so many of the things you talk about as well are important And if people are experiencing that reaction, it's looking at also what's going on inside the body and Are magnesium levels low? [Page//00:32:00] Because that can make a difference in body odor.
Katie Wells: Are you getting enough micronutrients and basic hydration? Like often the things we're experiencing on our skin are a great window into what's actually going on in our body or our liver or something else. And so I always try to say symptoms are a messenger and I would say even a gift. And so if you're experiencing any of those reactions, that's awesome.
Katie Wells: It's telling you something about perhaps what's going on inside your body that gives you a plan to address that thing.
Julie Michelson: So, such sage advice people always ask me, you know, how does she know so much? And she, you know, looks like she's 14, which we know you're not, you know, we know you're, but you are like the poster child for, for truly clean living. Because it is amazing. I mean, the, we didn't talk about, you guys have to check out episode 106, if you didn't hear it.
Julie Michelson: Where we dig into Katie's personal journey and family life and, and just how you maintain this level of wellness and in your own life while being such [Page//00:33:00] powerhouse in the wellness industry. So, and look, you know, like a kid while you're doing it all. So, and I know you haven't always felt like that on the inside.
Julie Michelson: So it gives all of us inspiration. It's amazing. Well, I'm really excited to watch. The product lines expand and grow and just really grateful for for the resource that wellness is for everybody who's trying to do better. Everyone who is educating and learning and and making those shifts.
Katie Wells: Well, thank you. And you're such a powerhouse on the education side as well. And I'm so grateful for voices like yours that are helping people decipher and understand. And like a thing I say, probably to the point of exhaustion on my podcast is where you are each our own primary healthcare provider. And while we can work with practitioners who are awesome partners in that, we still have that responsibility and we're still the ones making daily choices.
Katie Wells: That can either improve or harm our health. And so I love all the things that you talk about and how, how many resources [Page//00:34:00] you give people for education to understand and take ownership of their health.
Julie Michelson: Well, I thank you and, and so grateful for you again, sharing. And, and if you guys haven't checked out the wellness mama, wellness mama. com, I mean, talk about a plethora of education and, you know, there are articles there. I don't know. Do you just write like all the time there? There are articles there about pretty much any question you might have that relates to wellness or organization or all the things.
Katie Wells: Thank you. Yeah, I have done a lot of writing over the years. I think it's like 1500 blog posts now and writing's an outlet for me. So that was a great, as I was on my own journey, it was a great way to process the information and to synthesize it. And I, I think a lot of people from Einstein to Feynman and all the ones in between have quotes about, you don't really understand something until you can explain it to someone else in simple terms.
Katie Wells: And so I feel like in that sense, I've, I'm so grateful for all the benefit I've gotten from getting to write all [Page//00:35:00] those things and from to interact with this amazing community of moms and to learn as I go. With everybody. So I'm just, I'm super grateful every day for that.
Julie Michelson: Well, we are grateful that you have shared so much of your journey and, again, for the people that are like me, that are, you know, super geeky, like, I love the fact that it's not just sharing your journey, like, you're a research fanatic, it seems like, and so I appreciate that, you know. It's it's there is everything is backed, you know, you're not just like randomly offering advice to people.
Julie Michelson: So it is. It's amazing. I cannot encourage listeners enough like go to wellness. It's W. E. L. L. N. E. S. S. E. Dot com. And and check out the products. It's just such a great way to to up level your health that doesn't even take effort. I mean, that's the thing when we just start up leveling the [Page//00:36:00] products and you're brushing your teeth.
Julie Michelson: Anyway, you might as well be using something that is not only not bad for you, but supporting your oral microbiome at the same time and supporting your health and wellness. So, and you guys can use JM coach for a discount, the, the to just to get you jumpstarted. So Katie, thank you so, so much for coming back and sharing more about just the contribution you're making to the wellness space.
Katie Wells: Thank you again for having me. And it's such a joy to talk to you. I love our conversations and I'm so grateful.
Julie Michelson: Thank you for everyone listening. Remember you can get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living dot show. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I'll see you next week. [Page//00:37:00]
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My Guest For This Episode
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Katie Wells
Katie Wells, CTNC, MCHC, Founder and CEO of WellnessMama.com and Wellnesse.com. A mom of six with a background in journalism, she took health into her own hands and started researching to find answers to her health struggles. Her research turned into a blog and podcast, and she’s now written over 1,500 blog posts, three books, and was named one of the 100 most influential people in health and wellness. When she’s not reading medical journals, creating new recipes, or recording podcasts, you can find her somewhere outside in the sun with her kids or undertaking some DIY remodeling project.
Obligatory additional unrelated randomness: doula, speed-reader, hates bananas, loves baseball, scuba-diver, INTJ, highly experienced in answering the question, “why.”
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