James Barry:

Healing with Organ Meat

In today’s episode we are joined by Chef James Barry who has created an amazing functional food product, Pluck.  Pluck is an organ-based all-purpose seasoning mix that is a delicious way to get nature’s multivitamin into your everyday meals.  We discuss our shared passion for a real, whole food diet and organ meat as the most nutrient dense food we can consume.  James shares tips and tricks for introducing this essential food group into our diets… and he announces his new blends coming in January, including an AIP Blend!
Show Notes
In today’s episode we are joined by Chef James Barry who has created an amazing functional food product, Pluck.

Pluck is an organ-based all-purpose seasoning mix that is a delicious way to get nature’s multivitamin into your everyday meals.

We discuss our shared passion for a real, whole food diet and organ meat as the most nutrient dense food we can consume.

James shares tips and tricks for introducing this essential food group into our diets… and he announces his new blends coming in January, including an AIP Blend!
Our Guest For This Episode
James Barry
James Barry’s 16 years in the culinary field started as a private chef and has had the good fortune of cooking for celebrities such as Tom Cruise, Mariska Hargitay, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Sean Puffy Combs, Barbra Streisand, and John Cusack.

Most recently, James launched his first functional food product, Pluck, an organ-based, all-purpose seasoning. It’s the first of its kind and an amazingly easy and delicious way for people to get organ meats into their diet.

James also co-authored the recipes in Margaret Floyd’s book Eat Naked and co-authored the follow-up cookbook The Naked Foods Cookbook.

He most recently co-authored the recipes in Dr. Alejandro Junger’s NYT best selling book, Clean 7.

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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Julie Michelson: Welcome back to the inspired living with auto-immunity podcast. I'm your host, Julie Michaelson. And today we have such a treat for you. I'm talking with chef James Berry, who has created an amazing functional food product: pluck.

[00:00:48] Pluck is an Oregon based all purpose seasoning mix. That is a delicious way to get nature's multivitamin into your everyday meals.

[00:00:56] We discuss our shared passion for real [00:01:00] whole food diet and Oregon meat. As the most nutrient dense food, we can consume James shares, tips and tricks for introducing this essential food group into our diets. And he announces his new blends coming in January, including an AIP blend.

[00:01:17] James welcome to the show. I'm so excited to talk to you today about what you're doing, because it's going to make such a big impact, not on, on everybody in general, but especially on the auto-immune community. So welcome

[00:01:31] James Barry: Thank you. Thanks for that.

[00:01:34] Julie Michelson: my pleasure. So usually we start out with, everybody wants to hear this story, right?

[00:01:40] How did you get from being this very successful, personal chef to creating this amazing brand and product with pluck and you know, some, something must have happened to create the passion, to bring organ meats to the world.

[00:01:56] James Barry: I know, right. I cannot pretend that it was just like raw talent or it's just, [00:02:00] I'm so special. It's like, it's so much of, it was just luck and, you know learning to trust instincts and falling, falling my heart. I mean, it was nine 11. I saw, I used to be in the the film business and he's been acting.

[00:02:12] I did theater as well. And that was my main focus. I always was passionate about food when I was like a young kid, I think at the, around the age of seven, I learned at a scrambled egg and I just, from there, I just love it. So I always loved it, but it didn't see it as a viable career. I'm not sure why I just didn't and a.

[00:02:32] And so eventually I became an actor and I was really into that and I'm just put my heart and soul in there. And I was just putting out like 200%, but I was only getting back maybe 30%. It was one of those things. That's that's the actor's life. Not, not that fun. Nine 11 happens. And, and that was a time in my life where I was also in a relationship that then I realized I want to take further.

[00:02:55] And it just started to look at everything and go, you know what? I want everything in my life to have a [00:03:00] heart. And so that's when I then said, well, what are the things I love? And I re-evaluated kind of did an audit on my life. And I was like, well, you know, I've always loved cooking like from, from the youngest age.

[00:03:10] So. Well, what if I look into that and do that. And so I started, I found a school in New York that focused on health. So they're not, it's not like quote on blue where you're learning, just cooking. They were really focusing on different diets. They were focusing on how to properly prepare food, to make sure that,

[00:03:28] it's as nutrient dense as possible.

[00:03:30] And they also specialized in supporting private shift businesses. Like so a lot of people would call this school and they were looking for private chefs and I knew I did not want to work in a restaurant. And I'm sure you're having a laugh since your family, your family has a history of working in the restaurant and you probably know why I didn't want to work in the restaurant as it's a crazy life.

[00:03:50] Right. It's.

[00:03:51] Julie Michelson: Much better than being an actor?

[00:03:53] James Barry: Yeah, exactly. And and so I switched gears. I went to the culinary school and this is where it [00:04:00] gets interesting. You know, if anyone listening is kind of a spiritual or cosmic or anything like that. So I changed gears and like I said, that what initiate it was following my heart. I changed gears.

[00:04:12] I went to this school and I put my heart into it and the school really am not everyone did. There were a lot of kids right out of high school and I was in my thirties. Right. So I, I, and I had to, I had to pay for this myself and it was not cheap. And so I went in and I really like, I showed up every day, I got a perfect attendance.

[00:04:31] I did everything I could to learn. I was just a learning machine. And. And the school saw that. And so any time a job came to that school that was in LA because that's where I was living at the time they would refer me. And so I quickly built this resume where I would put, I would work still hard. I would work like a hundred percent, but I would get back to 100%.

[00:04:53] Like I, I started working with celebrities like Tom cruise, George Clooney, Barbara Stratton. I mean, I was working with [00:05:00] so many celebrities and they were just coming to me. I don't know what I. I don't, you know what I mean? It was almost like the

[00:05:06] Julie Michelson: Yeah, but you do, you were putting your heart into it.

[00:05:11] James Barry: Yeah, So I, and I had really great and that's, I think what would happen is that I had really great response and here's the secret. I just made real food, you know, but I but I, I, I prepared things in ways. Like I soaked my grains in my, in my legumes and beans, you know? And I cultured product and I made sure that I was not using any processed foods, anything with additives or, or shelf stabilizers, anything that was necessary.

[00:05:38] Like I focused on really healthy oils and fats. So that's really what I did. I didn't necessarily follow like a specific diet really. What's interesting is that when people started eating the food, I was preparing, they started, let's say for those mothers that were trying to lose their baby weight, they started losing the weight, you know, the actors that were trying to make sure that they always were on their a [00:06:00] game.

[00:06:00] They started to feel really good and look really good. So it was, it was, it was a really great experience, but also really telling us like, okay, All these trends out there that we constantly hearing about, like what, what diet do I follow? What's the best. And here's what I've learned. I'm just going to, I'm going to give you guys like the bottom line of what I've learned in my 16 plus years of

[00:06:21] Julie Michelson: Yeah, I hope I hope I know what you're going to say.

[00:06:24] James Barry: Yeah, right. Only drink water. No, I'm going to, I'm going to say be a fruitarian. No, I'm not

[00:06:28] Julie Michelson: No, no.

[00:06:30] James Barry: No, never. No.

[00:06:31] So what what I've learned is that, you know, trends come and go, but what, what is not a trend is real food. And so really just focus on the whole. Foods, whole real whole foods, you know, don't, don't choose things with ingredient lists, choose the actual ingredients, and you'll find that your health will quickly turn around.

[00:06:54] It's really that simple. And ultimately, you know, when people say, well, what about, you know, not [00:07:00] eating meat or eating means. So like, you know, I, where I stand with that stuff is, is I basically say. I'm not here to tell people how to eat. You need to follow your own path to that. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, you name one health practitioner and I'll show you someone that probably was a vegan at one point.

[00:07:16] You know what I mean? Like everyone goes on their path of how they eat everybody. And most health, health practitioners that are the ones now saying, you gotta eat this. You gotta eat that. It's because they got sick at one. And, and, or they've tried things and they finally found something that worked. And so I just tell people, look, if you want to be vegan, if you want to be a carnival, or if you want to be keto, if you want to be paleo follow, follow what you want to do, but here's the one caveat. It listen to your body because your head's going to be the one that tries to make the decision, but your body never realize, never lies. So if you start eating vegan and you start having really bad gas and you have digestive issues and you have skin issues [00:08:00] and you're bloating, that's your body communicating that what you're doing is not working.

[00:08:04] So all I ask is just listen, just to listen to your body and then make changes accordingly.

[00:08:09] Julie Michelson: I love that that is gold right there. And yes, I was hoping you were going to say. Real food. I was, I felt pretty comfortable and confident that that's where you were going to go with that. And I love your story about, you know, I guarantee you, other than the weight coming off of, you know, the various people you were shopping for.

[00:08:30] I, you know, their cells were happy. They may not. Some of them, I bet didn't even know why they loved your food. Right. In addition to I'm sure it was delicious, but our bodies really do know when we can hear, you know, what. Whole food, real food is anti-inflammatory in nature. I mean, yes, I I'm an AIP coach.

[00:08:52] There are things, you know, we do an elimination diet. There's certain things that are considered inflammatory, but like you mentioned, when you're [00:09:00] treating food the right way and preparing it the right way, and it's not coming out of a bag or a box, you know, it really doesn't get any better than that. So it's exciting, you know, I think that's a lot of.

[00:09:12] A lot is you I've met you. So I know why people were drawn to you to begin with it's that heart thing. But I, I do believe I I've had people say to me, you know, oh my gosh, I think my cells are singing, you know, because they've been eating. Fake food processed junk for so long. And so, you know, I, I don't know that I've met somebody who was vegan that was vegan truly with only real food, because they tend to still eat a lot of processed junk.

[00:09:46] And so that, you know, I think that that's the biggest difference. So

[00:09:53] James Barry: And I, and the, and the process junk really. I mean, you know, you look at any diet and I, and I, [00:10:00] and I kind of bring, I comment on this a lot, and this is one thing when we get to it about why I'm building my business, this very specific way, but you know, every diet out there and every company building. Well, what's the first thing that when, you know, Quito becomes hot or plant-based, you know, what used to be called vegan is now plant-based and paleo, what's the first kind of subset of recipes and or products that start to just flood the market.

[00:10:25] Julie Michelson: Oh, it's junk food. It's snap.

[00:10:27] James Barry: It's it's snacks and desserts, right? It's it's like, so to me, one of the issues that I have with some of these trends is that gee, I mean, you've already captured, which is, you know, they have this illusion of being healthy, but they're really not.

[00:10:40] I mean, they're really, really not. If you're eating them by in theory. You know what I mean? If you're eating like, oh, well the product says taquito brownies. So that means it's a healthy brownie. It's like, No.

[00:10:51] no, no brownies are just not good for you. No matter what diet you're following, you know what I mean?

[00:10:55] They're just not, they're never going to be good for you. It's, it's a dessert. It's supposed to be something that you [00:11:00] indulge a treat once in a while. It's like, you know, on your birthday or whatever, like.

[00:11:05] Julie Michelson: So I can eat well. That's like the, when the low fat thing came out, oh, this is low fat. So I can, I can eat pounds of it and in spine or, you know, low sugar, but it's jammed with chemicals, but it's great.

[00:11:19] James Barry: I remember, this is so funny. This is going to date me a lot. But, so I remember when organic was becoming a thing, you know, and, and being a chef like I, my office was grocery store, so I was going to grocery stores all the time. Farmer's markets. I was just always following the trends. Right. And following what are the new products?

[00:11:37] And I remember I was in a trader Joe's. This was so long ago, but organic was just starting to become a thing. And the kid in front of me at the checkout stand, grab a chocolate bar that said organic on it. And he said, mom, look, I got a chocolate bark. Can I get this? And the mom's like, no it's chocolate.

[00:11:58] She said, he said, but it says organic. That means [00:12:00] it's healthy. And I just had a laugh. I'm like, oh my God, that's the problem with marketing? That's the problem.

[00:12:07] Julie Michelson: Yeah. I have a friend who always says, you know, the front is marketing the back. The back is the, you know, but again, if you're not buying it out, if I love the, you know, instead of buying something with ingredients by the ingredient is, is amazing. So you shifted major shift from acting chef school.

[00:12:27] They know the universe is telling you you're on the right path. You're attracting, you know, all these amazing people to work with. How does one get from there to focusing on organ meats? I know. Well, you know, your whole food, real food, still a leap.

[00:12:45] James Barry: Yeah, no, it was because I didn't grow up eating organ meats. And and honestly, even out of culinary school, I was not working with Oregon meats that much. But ultimately what I think contributed to my creating this to my current business and the, and the [00:13:00] functional food pluck is that when I entered being a chef, I was always interested in how do I take foods that are common?

[00:13:09] You know, everyday comfort foods and how do I make them healthy? So that's always been my kind of lens of how I look at things. Cause I really think, you know, we're on this planet for a short time. We, we ultimately, we want to enjoy our time, but, but if we fully indulge, then we don't enjoy our time because we feel so icky.

[00:13:27] Right. So I was like, how can we, you know, meet that comfort level, but also meet the health need. And so I've always looked at food in that way and I've continued to kind of draw. Myself forward in terms of trying to figure that piece out. But it was when I had kids that I really started going, okay, what are The most nutrient dense foods, you know, up there and how do I get them in my kids' diets?

[00:13:52] And, and as I'm getting older, how do I get them in my own diet? Right. And how do I, you know, how do I maximize nutrient density? And you look at [00:14:00] any, any graph that's showing the most nutrient dense food at. Anyone could look this up right now, even.

[00:14:06] Julie Michelson: The visuals are stunning.

[00:14:08] James Barry: Yeah, there's all these visuals. And inevitably you'll see about, you know, you'll see a bunch of foods, but they'll always be these four kale, blueberries, maybe fish and then like beef, but then there'll be this other one and it will be beef liver. And. He'll look at the markers for all of them. And then there'll be some that are missing, you know, depending on what the marker that they're, you know, the vitamin and mineral they're there. They're looking at the thing. You'll see. One of those items doesn't have any empty markers and all the numbers are like way higher than any other.

[00:14:44] And it's beef liver, and it's not like just a little bit better. It's like three to seven to 12 to 20 times better than all those other foods. And you just look at those and you go, okay, this is these. These are definitely the most nutrient dense foods out there. This is mother [00:15:00] nature's multivitamin. But why aren't we eating them?

[00:15:03] No one, like our generation and younger are just not getting them in the diet, not the way our great grandparents and grandparents were. They, they, they, they ate them way more regularly. And so we've clearly lost the ability to cook them potentially. Like, I think a lot of people see them as labor is labor intensive and just like.

[00:15:23] Overwhelmed when they think about commander cook them. I think there's this idea that his perception of tastes that it's really like they're icky or too irony or whatnot. And then there's just the regularity of it. Or like, oh, do I let's say, you know, you want to take or roommates, but so you bought some supplements, but then now you're taking more supplements and sometimes you forget to take them.

[00:15:44] And so there's this kind of, it's out of habit, kind of, you know, And I just, I decided to try to figure out how to solve that. And so I came up. I'm basically using the ancestral food of Oregon needs, but I'm using, I'm utilizing the modern techniques [00:16:00] of freeze drying. So we have, we basically, when you buy a supplement of that's organ mates, it's freeze, dried arguments and freeze drying is similar to the dehydrating, but it's just, it maintains the nutrient density of the product.

[00:16:14] And it's really not, it's not truly heat based. So there's, there's really little effect on nutrients. But it preserves, it makes it shelf stable. It, it removes the moisture. So you can pretty much keep those capsules for a long time. Right. So that's when I thought, Well, what if I take the stuff that's in the capitals?

[00:16:31] And I combine it with the ingredients that you would use it to put in like a pat, Hey, you know, like onions and garlic. And, but I use all shelf stable, you know, all spices and herbs, things that are already like, you know, the moisture is out of them. And so I started experimenting and I came up with a seasoning and Oregon based seasoning that we call pluck.

[00:16:49] And and it's, what's cool is that it solves all those points. Like, you don't need to know how to cook cause you can sprinkle it on anything. And I mean, literally anything, you know, like from [00:17:00] fish to chicken to, it's not just beef, you know, it's not just me. Like we put it, my kids put it on their toast, you know, we put it.

[00:17:08] We put it on popcorn. It's so good on popcorn pizza. I mean, like I said, fish, it, it just, it has no boundaries. It really is. It's really versatile. So that's one thing they don't need not know how to cook, put it on anything. And then it ups the nutrients. Now you're getting not only whole food nutrients, which we discussed earlier, the importance of whole food, but you're getting the superfood nutrients.

[00:17:31] You're getting these amazing nutrients that you find an organ meats. And then you don't have to adopt a new habit. Cause we already all season our foods. So there's no kind of, oh, I need to remember to take a capsule or I need to start running, you know, 30 mile or 30 minutes a day, you know, it's, it's not a new habit.

[00:17:48] It's just simply replaced your salt and pepper or your favorite seasoning with this new favorite seasoning pluck. And now you're getting micro doses infrequent use of some of the most nutrient dense foods.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Julie Michelson: Well, I love the creativity and I am somebody who. When I learned the, the, just the importance of organ meats and just how nutrient dense they are. I two bought the freeze dried capsules because and there's so many things in there I want, I want to make sure that we talk about quality, but quality of the organ meat.

[00:18:24] So I definitely, I'm going to ask you to make sure we cover that, but. I do think so much of what we think we like. I mean, you and I touched on this before we turned the mic on about, you know, pallets are adaptable, how it's changed and learn and grow and expand. And I see it all the time on the most basic level of when, when people take sugars and sweeteners out of their diets, you know, I I've had so many clients.

[00:18:53] Oh, my gosh, I never realized strawberries were this sweet. And I'm like, yeah, cause now you can actually taste that, [00:19:00] you know, your palette has adjusted. And as you mentioned, you know, most of us didn't grow up in households where the organ meats were being cooked or if they were, maybe they weren't being cooked very well.

[00:19:12] James Barry: No, I most likely very overcooked.

[00:19:14] Julie Michelson: What is the case in, in, in my house. The very limited use of organ meat. It's, it's funny. My, my mom, I found out as an adult, loves liver and onions. Never cooked it or served it for us, but I've seen her order it in restaurants. So I'm like, that's really interesting. Well and maybe that's that labor.

[00:19:34] Piece, but, but I think that we've, we've missed at least a generation or two of these are flavors. You know, this is comfort food. This is, you know, something I've grown up with that I love and appreciate. I have a theory about why they fell kind of out of favor, out of use, but I'd love to hear, you know, what, why, why aren't we eating them?

[00:19:58] James Barry: Yeah, that's really the question [00:20:00] of the hour, isn't it? So ultimately there's a few potential things based on just the history I've read on it. So one is that it's kind of steeped in. In if the, the economy or our sense of economy. So meaning that muscle meat is considered more luxurious. And so when after world war II, when people could came back and could afford.

[00:20:25] To purchase. Now you have two people in the household working after world war II. It was a real shift of the, of the nuclear family, right? So you have two people working, you have potentially more money coming into the household. And it was a real sign of like, oh, we're doing well because we can afford the finer cuts.

[00:20:41] You know, an organ meat is considered poor person's food because it was the cheapest part of the animal. So it's very steeped in that. It's also steeped in racism and a lot of people don't realize this, you know, during slavery times. When the slave owner would slaughter a hog, for example, they would keep all the finer cuts for [00:21:00] themselves.

[00:21:00] And then they would serve the intestines and the different organs to the slaves. And that's where you get chitlins. Chitlins is a, is a slave food basically, or. Came about then it's the intestines of a pig. And what's ironic though, is that the slave owners were, they, they were, you know, thought that they were giving the cheapest or the worst part of the animal.

[00:21:19] They're actually giving them the most nutrient dense. So, you know, cheers to the people that did get that, that could survive that hard time in our history. But you know, the beyond the economy of it or the economics of it, I think that's, that's the piece. I think that stemmed the most, but The other piece, I think, you know, and this is probably more now bringing us into the current times.

[00:21:42] I really think that it is the, the, that we don't know what to do with it. You know, when you buy a beef liver, it's, it's large. It's really. Now, if you've got a large piece of muscle media, let's say like a trot. So let's, let's compare a tri-tip. So tri tip is about the size. It would be flipper, right? [00:22:00] So you, if you get a try to, most households are not buying tri tips every week.

[00:22:05] You know what I mean? They buy it for special occasions when let's say during the summer and they're barbecuing, right? It's it's one. When you have more people coming in. You know, or you let's say you're big family. Well, that's how big a beef liver is pretty much. And so I think it's daunting. I think people are overwhelmed with the concept of like, not only the texture, because it's slimy their association with what they think it tastes like, but then like, what do I do with it?

[00:22:29] And I absolutely have some solutions for that when we want to get to that.

[00:22:33] Julie Michelson: I do want to get to that. Before we get to that and B I want. Hutch on the sourcing. Right. It's so important.

[00:22:42] James Barry: What was your theory by the way? Was your theory also around economics?

[00:22:47] Julie Michelson: was, yeah, the and it is ironic. We can point to so many other things, but that would make this a three hour interview on our, how our progress, you know, is it really progress? [00:23:00] So, you know, all of a sudden we've got two incomes and more better finances, and we're, we're buying the fancier meat and our nutrient density totally just went down.

[00:23:10] James Barry: Well, it, I mean, that is, that is really an interesting dilemma. Right. And I, and that's partially also when I think of organ meats, I'm like, okay, well, what I, and, and even beyond arguments, I think of nose to tail. Cause I think it's easy just to focus on origami, but there's every part of the animal used to be utilized.

[00:23:27] For human consumption and it still gets utilized, but it's not for human consumption. Most of it's going to

[00:23:32] the non-muscle stuff is going to pet food. It's going to feed the other animals. And I mean, and there's some there's if you go to other countries, like I know my friend from Venezuela, he said, You know, the, I is, for example, like bovine eyes, cow eyes are very highly regarded there.

[00:23:48] And as part of the cuisine and it's in, and I'll tell you this. When I met him in college, he was in his twenties. He was one of the healthiest people I'd ever met. And he grew up eating lots of seafood and lots of [00:24:00] nose to tail eating, and he was phenomenally healthy looking.

[00:24:03] Julie Michelson: And you look at now, the, the, I was going to say fad of the re-introduction of collagen now grass fed collagen back into our diets. Well, if we were eating the whole animal and using the whole animal, we would be

[00:24:18] James Barry: Wait, you would've had it.

[00:24:20] Julie Michelson: now.

[00:24:20] James Barry: you would. You would've had it. I mean, and that's, and so that's the irony, Right. So we, so we're not eating nose to tail anymore. And as you said, we're nutrient deficient, but yet we're not calorie deficient, we're overweight. We have an obesity epidemic. And so that's interesting, right?

[00:24:38] I mean, that, that says everything you need. Everything right there with our diets. What we eat is different than the way our ancestors did. And yet we're not, we're all eating enough food and yet we're still new to deficient.

[00:24:54] Julie Michelson: And so sick, you know, I mean, really it's they keep [00:25:00] creating new types of diarrhea. There was, I remember growing up knowing a handful of people with type one diabetes, and it was rare also a handful of people. If that with auto-immunity it was rare.

[00:25:12] James Barry: Rare.

[00:25:13] Julie Michelson: Now, you know, we've added type two diabetes and my space, we call Alzheimer's type three diabetes and it's all this.

[00:25:21] It's not, it's not just sugar, people think sugar, but it's, it's just the fake food. It's the, the garbage so, so how, how does somebody know. Because sadly, it's very easy to go out and get really sourced organ meat. So, so if somebody is, you know, really conscientious about they, they want to include this nutrient dense food in a way, you know, and their cause you're going to give us tips on beyond the.

[00:25:50] Pluck seasoning, which is by the way. Fantastic. And I, I I always joke in, in my world because I do have a very restricted, clean diet and [00:26:00] work with people. We do elimination diets on AIP. I say, you know, Regular people enjoy it, then it's good. Right? Because I have an eating a whole food, real food diet for so long that, you know, I know that a lot of people's taste buds haven't adjusted to real flavors yet.

[00:26:17] And so we'll, we'll talk about some of the, the new season mixes you've got coming out, especially things that are gonna make the auto-immune community really excited. But even for those of us, I mean, I have recovered from auto-immunity in it and still eat mostly that way. And, and even just, you know, your original mix is it's just so good.

[00:26:39] I don't eat popcorn or toast, but I definitely am excited to try it and more and more ways. It's a lot of fun, but for those, since you're going to give us tips on how to handle Oregon, That's not freeze dried. You know, how, how do people know? What, where do they find it? What are they looking for?

[00:26:58] James Barry: Yeah. And the quality [00:27:00] Yeah,

[00:27:00] you know, the quality is an interesting one. So Diane Rogers, one of the co-authors of sacred cow she, she recently was promoting a a study where they showed actually that what the cow ate did not affect the nutrient, the nutrients of, of, of. this was muscle meat, but did not, did not affect the nutrients in the muscle meat.

[00:27:22] And so that's kind of an interesting. That's kind of an interesting report because then that basically opens a door towards, if you can't afford grass fed, then there you go. But here's the part that I don't agree with, which is, it's not just about the nutrient load, right? I mean, if an animal, you know, we were talking about earlier about the people I used to cook for and how good they felt.

[00:27:41] Well, some of that's also like what I'm putting into the cookies to my energy as I make the food and the energy that then is transferred to them. So if you're eating. A conventional cow. That's basically being raised all cows are raised with grass initially. So when we talk about grass fed, that is a MIS misunderstanding is people think that [00:28:00] cows aren't grass or they are there, they are, they all start out grass fed, but they don't get finished.

[00:28:06] Grassfed so when I changed the. They, they then start feeding them other things. And I wish I could say it's just grains and stuff like that, but it's not, they feed them a lot of horrible stuff. Basically they're just trying to, if you think of it this way is they're trying to maximize their daughter gala, right.

[00:28:22] So they're trying to increase the weight of the cow and spend as little as they can to do that. So they use.

[00:28:29] Julie Michelson: just then just goes back to what we were just talking about, about our overweight.

[00:28:35] James Barry: Totally.

[00:28:36] Julie Michelson: the same thing. That's what they're doing to the cows is fattening them up really fast by adding in all that other

[00:28:43] James Barry: really fast. And, and, and with poor poor foods, and then they're giving you another pumping them. They're giving them vitamins, synthetic vitamins and stuff like that too. And of course a lots of other stuff, hormones and and antibiotics, things like that. So a lot of stuff.

[00:28:57] you don't want, but here's the thing [00:29:00] is like a lot of these cows.

[00:29:01] Would not live on this. They could not live on this diet. So a lot of them, they only are alive because they get killed at a certain age. But if they were allowed to continue in this diet and, and allow to live longer, they would probably die from how they're being raised and fed. And then you don't want to eat that.

[00:29:21] Like you just, that's not the kind of like, if you don't want to eat a sick. And that's basically what the majority of those conventional cows are if they're being raised in properly. And they're also confined the confinement is really just horrible. They're really tightly, you know, tightly, if you've ever gone.

[00:29:37] Gosh, I lived, I used to live in Southern California. And if you ever did the drive from Southern California to Northern California, and you took the five. The five you had passed, it used to be only one KFO, but now you pass three of them and, and anyone wouldn't know that they're there, they're passing a keto because of the smell of the most horrific smell you can ever imagine.

[00:29:56] And you just look out your window and you'll see, they're just, they're [00:30:00] all th there's, it's all dirt. There's no grasslands anywhere and they're just all piled into each other. Just, it's just horrible.

[00:30:09] Julie Michelson: It's absolutely disgusting. I would say if. Once you see it and smell it. And I live in Colorado and so we've got the boys, got both worlds here, you know, beautiful ranches with grass fed and finished happy animals and then feedlots. And there's a, it's a running joke. I live in Northern Colorado on the Plains.

[00:30:33] So I live where, you know, this is where the livestock is and. We, I won't say the town by name. Although if you live there, you got to know it anyway. But when the wind shifts. You know, you and I'm talking miles because I used to live about 35 miles away from that town. And on there were still certain days of the year where we could smell it.

[00:30:57] And you know, this was the area where the feedlots were. [00:31:00] And, and so. You know, we would say smells like, oh, and we all knew. But then like you said, once you, you drive by and you see it. And there, you know, not only so packed in there on dirt, you know, not a Sprig of grass anywhere, but it's not even dirt.

[00:31:16] It's manure, you know, they're up, it looks like there's a little Hills and mountains in there. And then just standing on manure piles. It's it's really FA I'm. So going to dig into that study cause I have not heard. I've only heard contrary as far as, you know, nutritional values and making a three omega sixes, especially grass fed versus conventional breastfed and finished.

[00:31:39] But they have that, the health and I mean, then people say, well, you know, this antibiotic free, you know, what are all the cows sick? Well, no, but they need the antibiotics to be alive long enough to get fat on food. They're not supposed to eat

[00:31:54] James Barry: Yeah for that lifestyle. Absolutely. So, so, and, and that's ultimately why, you know, when we talk about [00:32:00] quality, we're talking about. That, you know, like how has the, how has the animal being raised? How is it being treated and what is it being fed and, and, you know, and, and, and really I'm in full support of the vegans or the vegetarians out there.

[00:32:12] They're like, oh, I don't. I don't want to eat meat because how the tree and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to eat conventional meat either because of how they're treated. So I'm fully in support of that. But I think anyone out there that thinks that, you know, being a vegan or vegetarian is healthier for the planet or healthier for you.

[00:32:28] I recommend reading a book like sacred cow because they talk, they, they unpack all of that and they actually show how you know, animals are what are gonna save us, you know, not, not just for food, but our farms, regenerative

[00:32:40] Julie Michelson: Well quality, all of it.

[00:32:42] James Barry: yeah. So that's really key,

[00:32:45] Julie Michelson: so how does somebody find, so not everybody lives, you know, I'm fortunate where I can talk to the person, raising the cattle and now, you know, for sure that, you know, it's, it's grass fed and finished in it. I can go see it if I [00:33:00] want, you know I'd prefer not to meet my actual cow, but.

[00:33:04] You know, see how they're living and know these are happy animals. But how,

[00:33:09] James Barry: the, that's the first that's the first way is to go to the farm and know farmer's mind. You're identifying one of them right now, you know, like, so that's.

[00:33:17] Julie Michelson: Not everybody lives in an area though, where they've got a local.

[00:33:22] James Barry: Yeah. So then the next way is to go to your local store that has sells more consciously, you know, you see, you're looking for basically a hundred percent grass fed cattle or pastured If you want to get chicken, you know if you want to go get chicken organs, then you want to look for pasture chickens.

[00:33:38] But most places like a whole foods. If you have one of those or like one of your healthier markets are going to sell, probably the liver. Potentially, and you can also sometimes find the liver in your frozen aisle at those stores. If you can't find it in the, in the fresh meat market area, I'm looking in the freezer.

[00:33:58] Because a lot, there are some companies [00:34:00] that will do the a hundred percent grasp and they'll, and it would just be liver slices since it already be pre-sliced for you and everything harder to find other parts of the animal. So, so definitely like if you can find a couch. That's where you're going to get those parts of the animals that you're not going to find in the stores, but like the tongue the th the spleen, the kidney, the heart, you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:34:23] That's where you're going to get that stuff. And then the other place is online. There's there are a lot of online purveyors of grass, a hundred percent grass fed organs. Us wellness meats is one of them. So there are some options. We, fortunately, this is where this is where technology really comes in hands.

[00:34:39] Like, you know, cause you can order pretty much almost anything anywhere now.

[00:34:44] Julie Michelson: No. Great advice. So grass fed and pastured is what you want to look for. Give us a couple of, of tips. I know we're almost, we're almost over time, but we promise some tips on how to, other than. Start [00:35:00] incorporating. It's funny because that's why you may remember how Geekly excited. I got when we met and you told me what you were doing, because it's always about sneaking it in like that's.

[00:35:15] James Barry: Yeah.

[00:35:15] Julie Michelson: I'm trying to convince clients to start to embrace Oregon needs. It's about you now it's disguising it. It's putting a little bit, you know, mix it with your ground beef. So I love just that concept of, or just put it right on it and really, you know, enjoy. But for those that, that. Really want to take that next step of like, okay, if this is that good for me, you know, I should be, I should raise.

[00:35:39] If I had to do it over again, I would be raising my children on it, but they are now in their twenties. So that ship has sailed, but they can use pluck.

[00:35:47] James Barry: Yeah. Yeah. And then when they have kids I mean, well, well that's, so that's one thing is, is, is is going back to the pallet topic, which is, we must remember that our child's palette is formed [00:36:00] in utero. So it's formed by, based on what the mother. Is eating. So you can really start to shape the pallet there.

[00:36:08] And then we got to re then remember, which we already talked about, the pallet can adapt. It can change over time, but that's where it's formed initially. So like for example we, we did a lot of cultured vegetables for our first daughter. And I even did some spicy stuff just to start already start getting her acclimated debt.

[00:36:27] And to this day she has an affinity for stuff like that. And we definitely baby's first foods, some organ meats in there, like some liver, some heart, but here's the tip to how to get Oregon. It's a new diet. So we've already named the first, the first tip, which is pluck. And I'm not just stroking my ego here.

[00:36:47] I mean, pluck truly is the gateway Oregon.

[00:36:50] Julie Michelson: It's so good. I mean, it's really so good.

[00:36:54] James Barry: But, and it's so easy. That's really what I'm focusing on is like, it's just easy. So [00:37:00] it, it has an umami flavor to it and a mommy's the fifth unique taste. So it actually, what happens is that it actually makes everything else tastes better. so we have this kind of campaign going on on our social media where it's this concept of like, where.

[00:37:14] You're making your kind of your meal and let's say, you're experimenting in your kitchen and it just doesn't taste that great. You know, you're just like, ah, it's serviceable. Like my family's going to eat it or I'll eat it, but it's just not like great. And we're like, well, pluck it because by just adding pluck to it.

[00:37:32] You asked the, it will taste great. It's just amazing because of that umami umami flavor just makes it taste good.

[00:37:39] And just a little story before I go to the next tips is that I have heard so many people share with. That they would make a dish that they've been making for years. Like, like seven years they've been making like this, this stuffed this stuff, pepper dish for their family.

[00:37:55] And it was like their stock, like safe, safe bet. You know, they would make it maybe once a week. They always knew [00:38:00] their family's gonna love it. Well, when they got plucked, that was the only thing they changed was they put a lock on it. And at the dinner table that night, everyone was like, what did you do?

[00:38:09] This is amazing. What's going on?

[00:38:11] Julie Michelson: When you've never

[00:38:11] James Barry: Yeah.

[00:38:12] this is the best way you've done it ever. And all she did was pluck so easy gateway to getting organ meats, cluck, just pluck it. Right? So that's one. Then the next thing is you want to start easing into the real organ. The whole organs, the organs in flux are real. I said, In whole Oregon, the whole cause you, cause you're always going to get more nutrients from the whole thing.

[00:38:37] So pluck as a microdosing, eating an actual beef liver is going to be a full, full dose. Right? So what I recommend is you purchase that beef liver, which is going to be big and then you keep it frozen. So usually when you get it from. And when, when you, when you and then just keep it frozen, and then what you do is you pull it out and you use a zester [00:39:00] or a grater and you grate it.

[00:39:02] Okay. So you never unfreezing it. Cause that's the thing that's really daunting for people, right? We are, we already identified, this is that we don't know what to do with it once it's defrosted and it just all goes to waste. So keep it frozen, grate it. And all I want you to do is great at inch to your ground.

[00:39:17] Okay. It doesn't matter if it's Turkey or beef or lamb. I don't care this graded and only do a little bit at a time. So when you're first introducing it, maybe only do like a, and let's say we have a pound of ground. Do like two tablespoons and then the next time you do it, maybe do four tablespoons. But what I want you to do is keep it within that 25%.

[00:39:39] So if I have a pound of beef only do about 20, like I would go anywhere between 15 to 25%. Origami. And sometimes you may even can only go to like 20, but I found that if you go beyond that is it starts to change the flavor and the texture of the ground. Me and then people will know, but anything below that, so 20% or less, [00:40:00] no one will know, not a single person.

[00:40:02] They will not know. So just that. So that's your second to third. Is now you're like, okay, now I'm feeling a little more adventurous now I don't need a graded it. Like, I actually feel like I can, I can visually see it. And then I would start with chicken hearts. So that's the first one I would officially start with and you can shop them off.

[00:40:23] So they don't look like little hearts because, but chicken hearts and heart in general is the closest to muscle meat, but also it's incredibly flavorful. Like it doesn't have that, that Oregon flavor that we associate with with the other organs. It's because really it's when we talk about that, we're really talking about liver and it has an irony taste cause it's very high in iron heart.

[00:40:46] Doesn't have. And, and so it's really extra kind of sweet. So I recommend starting with chicken hearts and then when you're ready to even get a beef and beef heart is large, but you can even like, we have a recipe on our site for turning [00:41:00] beef heart and to beef jerk into jerky. And it's delicious. I mean, I

[00:41:04] Julie Michelson: I'm going to have to try that. I actually have beef heart in the freezer. I had shared with you earlier. I know I have a dog that was on Rocky dough for a while. I have three dogs, all different sizes and they had all different recipes and it actually just became too much of a full-time job to, to do the, so we found another nutrient dense keto diet for her, but I haven't.

[00:41:29] Some yeah, good amount because this was the basis of her diet was organ meat. I have a good amount of, of well-sourced beef heart in the freezer. And

[00:41:39] James Barry: Yeah, check, check out E E plucked.com and then.

[00:41:43] look under the recipes and you to see lots of recipes for organ meats and pluck in general, but there's a beef part jerky and it's, it's very, very good. I highly recommend it. So once you then graduate to heart, then you can start graduating to tongue.

[00:41:57] Tongue is another one. That's hugely [00:42:00] underused in American culture. But if you go to other cultures, it's particularly like the Mexican culture. If you go to like taco place. So they'll usually call it langua

[00:42:08] Julie Michelson: Well go to Jewish deli on the east coast and you will, you will find.

[00:42:13] James Barry: Yeah, and it's delicious. What's the thing about tongue is you just need to get past the sheath around the tongue and really what you, the way you cook it is you just, you just cook it like you would any braised me.

[00:42:26] So let's just say you're making pulled pork, for example, just instead of getting the pork shoulder or the pork butt, just you get a tongue, a beef tongue use the same ingredients and and then after you've cooked it. It you'll just have to appeal off it out of the sheet and it appeals right off. It just, I mean, just put a little slice and it just comes right out.

[00:42:47] And then what's underneath that sheet is once again, similar to heart, it's a closest to muscle meat, but it shreds like it just shreds so easily and it has a muscle taste to it. And so it will take [00:43:00] on the flavors of whatever you put in the, in the slow cooker when not. And so it's just an incredible.

[00:43:05] Whey, they start eating that knows to tell, you know, a way of eating, but not take such a big leap, you know, as, as you would, if you were going straight to the kidney, for example, because kidney is going to be one of the stronger tasting organs, but those are kind of the tips to getting the real organs. The, the last thing I would say is that is, is really, like I said, like, like start small.

[00:43:28] I talked about the grading. If you don't have a, if, if. Or like a little bolder, you can actually take the ground meat And put it in a food processor and just.

[00:43:37] take a chunk of the liver and put it in and grind it in there with it. Sometimes you can, if you're at a deli at a meat counter, you can actually ask them to do that.

[00:43:46] There. That's one way. So that way you don't even have to bring it home and do with it. If it's if it's, if there's the real person behind the meat counter, you can ask them, Hey, when you can you grind in some of this heart or whatever, they're selling there [00:44:00] into my ground beef for ground lamb and they will they'll totally do it.

[00:44:04] Julie Michelson: Such a great idea. And I'm as excited as I was. I'm now inspired to go beyond pluck myself. And I, again, who just has grass fed organ meats in their freezer that they're not doing anything with. So that is going to change immediately. We've already gone well over our half hour, but I want you to tell the audience about you've got new products coming out.

[00:44:31] So let's, let's tell them, just kind of tease them a little

[00:44:35] James Barry: Yeah, no, thanks for letting me I'm very excited about it. So the auto-immune protocol community. Obviously that's near and dear to your heart and we've gotten lots of requests. And I know that you're, you know, this community is one that knows that you need to get organ meats in the diet, but are struggling.

[00:44:53] And so we have an AIP version coming up, which I got to say was hard to create. Cause A lot [00:45:00] of what brings the flavor to pluck and kind of mask the Oregon flavor is the onion and garlic, you know which you can use and AIP, but then it's also the other stuff. It's some of the peppers, the paprika, and you know, some of that other stuff that the peppercorns is some of those night shades and those seeds that really kind of support the kind of other layers of flavor.

[00:45:25] But what I created was a garden vegetable flavor, and I love it. I'm super psyched, super excited to share that with the community and that's going to come out in January and we're also going to be coming out with additional flavors. So we have the all purpose. We're going to have a spicy version of the all purpose.

[00:45:41] We're going to have the AIP garden, vegetable. And then we're also going to be putting out just the Oregon blend. We're calling it pluck pure, and it's the a hundred percent blend. And that's for people now, that's where you're going to really taste the arguments. That's for people that are like, I'm just going to do it.

[00:45:59] You know, [00:46:00] chef James said, which I'm going to not just add, you know, this to my Grammy. That's, that's how you'd want to use pluck period. You can put it in smoothie and stuff, but it is going to have a taste. It's just, you're going to want to combine it with.

[00:46:10] something else that has a stronger.

[00:46:13] Julie Michelson: Well, and, and we discussed that one as well, because for, for those crazy pet lovers you know, I, I always, I am that person who I want my. To get the nutrient density too. And so I know that that's, I'm going to be sharing that with them, that

[00:46:32] James Barry: Yeah, that's

[00:46:33] Julie Michelson: going to love it

[00:46:34] James Barry: spirit. That's going to be secret pluck peer. Cause that's, that's kind of the marketing challenge is how do you market something that's good for you and pet

[00:46:41] Julie Michelson: and your dog, right.

[00:46:43] James Barry: Your dog. So it's like, So, but that is the secret is that actually, if you have an animal that's just not humble enough food, just want to give them that extra nutrition.

[00:46:53] You'll be able to sprinkle it over their, over their food, like a seasoning, really, but it's going to be a hundred percent organic and they'll go [00:47:00] crazy for it. They

[00:47:01] Julie Michelson: Oh, I have absolutely no doubt. And I, I am willing to share with them. So I'm still looking forward to it. Before we wrap up tell listeners where they can find you it'll be in the show notes as well. And I know you have a gift for listeners as well. So tell us, tell us where you are. You mentioned it once, but let's.

[00:47:21] James Barry: Yeah. So we're at each, each pluck dot comments, EA T P L U C k.com. And We, the new flavors will be coming out in January. I'd say January 1st. So definitely follow us on social media, you know, get on the newsletter. We do sales a lot. We have. Prizes, we, we just we're constantly doing stuff. So it's it's to your advantage to be part of the community.

[00:47:46] And we, we debut recipes, multiple recipes every month. We have really soon we have coming out. If this comes out, you know if this podcast comes out in November, we have a Thanksgiving recipe guide that you can [00:48:00] get. And so and those are going to be some really

[00:48:01] Julie Michelson: might just have to bunk you in line, then listeners can take advantage of that. James. Thank you so much to say that you've shared gold is an understatement. I am so passionate about nutrient density and you know, everybody, especially with auto-immunity or health. People are so worried about, you know, what do I take out, right.

[00:48:25] What do I need to avoid? And you know, what you're doing is giving people such an easy way to add the nutrient density that we need to heal. And we need just to stay healthy. If you're fortunate enough to kind of get with that before you find illness. So thank you so much for being with us.

[00:48:44] James Barry: Thank you. And I, and I so appreciate your perspective on plucking man. It's it. I really do just want to try to help people as much as I can. And and I do believe in my heart of hearts, that that organ meats are what's going to help us as a, as a community, it's gonna help our world [00:49:00] environmentally. And I also believe it's going to help our, our health,

[00:49:02] Julie Michelson: Well, you speak my language. So thank you. And for everyone listening, remember you get the show notes and transcripts by visiting inspired living.show. I hope you had a great time and enjoyed this episode as much as I did.


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